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2014 Training Camp Thread


Jas0nMacIsaac

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Today's second group of forwards almost looks like a group that could be the 12 up front to start the season. I know I have said this quite a few times, but right now the 4th line is Ruutu-Josefson-Brunner. Not sure what that means, but that's an awesome 4th line and a major major upgrade over CBGB.

 

The six defensemen are the six of the seven defensemen signed to 1-way deals (Merrill still out with his BS described injury).

Edited by devilsrule33
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Today's second group of forwards almost looks like a group that could be the 12 up front to start the season. I know I have said this quite a few times, but right now the 4th line is Ruutu-Josefson-Brunner. Not sure what that means, but that's an awesome 4th line and a major major upgrade over CBGB.

 

The six defensemen are the six of the seven defensemen signed to 1-way deals (Merrill still out with his BS described injury).

 

I hate how the NHL allows teams to BS their injuries.  It's obvious the kid has a concussion no thanks to that over-the-hill pity invite in Fedotenko.

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Today's second group of forwards almost looks like a group that could be the 12 up front to start the season. I know I have said this quite a few times, but right now the 4th line is Ruutu-Josefson-Brunner. Not sure what that means, but that's an awesome 4th line and a major major upgrade over CBGB.

The six defensemen are the six of the seven defensemen signed to 1-way deals (Merrill still out with his BS described injury).

I will believe Stephen gionta does not have a starting spot on this team only when I see it.
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This. There's no chance Gionta isn't on this team... We all know how Pete feels about him.

 

Lou (voice): Without Question Stephen Gionta will be on the team.

 

But, there are a million ways you can improve the 4th line with the players they have in camp. They did that today, and it's a good sign. Gionta will play a ton. If this was a line they were really thinking about, Gionta probably takes Josefson's spot after one game. 

 

I'm just happy that the staff (even if it was for one minute, one practice) thought, 'hey, we might be able to improve the C, RW, and LW on our 4th line).

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Isn't sad we all see that S. GIONTA isn't NHL material buy Pete and Lou love him as he downgrades our team.

He's proven to be an effective penalty killer and a decent fourth liner. He gets something like 15 minutes of ice time a game. At this point it's a toss up as to whether he's better than Josefson, who only has the cache of being a high draft pick. No other team bit on Tedenby or Bergfors, so it may be the case that Josefson is just another mid first round pick who didn't pan out, like about 40 percent of them.

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No we just grade Gionta unrealistically given the fact he's a journeyman playing over the first-round Swede (who's never done a thing either), and the fact he gets exposed whenever he goes above the fourth line.

 

He is an NHL player, just shouldn't be a center.  If he was a wing I wouldn't have an issue with him on the fourth line. But having an undersized center who wins 40% of faceoffs isn't on Gionta, it's on the staff.  

Edited by NJDevs4978
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He's proven to be an effective penalty killer and a decent fourth liner. He gets something like 15 minutes of ice time a game. At this point it's a toss up as to whether he's better than Josefson, who only has the cache of being a high draft pick. No other team bit on Tedenby or Bergfors, so it may be the case that Josefson is just another mid first round pick who didn't pan out, like about 40 percent of them.

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I'm not so high on Josefson. I might buy into the potential a bit too much, when it comes to him and Tedenby last year...

 

Here's the thing though...take away their names, their size, the fact that one was a 1st round pick and the other was an undrafted forward who toiled away in the minors for years, and what your expectations are for each (this is where I think most coaches get caught making the mistake), the fact that one might be overachieving heavily and one is underachieving. Forget all about that.

 

Now just think about what you like about Gionta's game and what the high end of his ability is. Can Jacob Josefson do all of that, if not better? My answer is 100% yes. He has the tools to be better defensively, he has more speed, has better vision, knows how to use his teammates, is more offensively gifted. When the Devils can view Josefson by what he actually is rather than what he is not, they might finally realize he's a better option than Gionta.

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I'm not so high on Josefson. I might buy into the potential a bit too much, when it comes to him and Tedenby last year...

Here's the thing though...take away their names, their size, the fact that one was a 1st round pick and the other was an undrafted forward who toiled away in the minors for years, and what your expectations are for each (this is where I think most coaches get caught making the mistake), the fact that one might be overachieving heavily and one is underachieving. Forget all about that.

Now just think about what you like about Gionta's game and what the high end of his ability is. Can Jacob Josefson do all of that, if not better? My answer is 100% yes. He has the tools to be better defensively, he has more speed, has better vision, knows how to use his teammates, is more offensively gifted. When the Devils can view Josefson by what he actually is rather than what he is not, they might finally realize he's a better option than Gionta.

That's fair, I suppose. I was more responding to the notion that Gionta is a total drag on the team, which he really isn't.

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The pendulum has definitely swung to too much hate for Gionta. He is a 4th line center who brings effort, can be used on the pk (although i personally hate him on the pk), chips in the occassional goal and seems like a fantastic teammate. Plus watching him lay decent hits on people much larger than him must bring a jolt of energy/entertainment to the bench. My current opinon is: I love him as an extra forward and accept him as the 4th line center until someone pushes him out with their results on the ice (not their potential). 

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He's proven to be an effective penalty killer and a decent fourth liner. He gets something like 15 minutes of ice time a game. At this point it's a toss up as to whether he's better than Josefson, who only has the cache of being a high draft pick. No other team bit on Tedenby or Bergfors, so it may be the case that Josefson is just another mid first round pick who didn't pan out, like about 40 percent of them.

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As you know he doesn't stay on the 4th line unfortunately. The Devils have numerous players that are better than him to play on the 4th line. So he belongs in Albany. He has no offense even when on the 1st and 2nd line or 3rd line and he is usually a liability late in the game defensively.

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Just quickly browsing through the current topic on this thread; the Stephen Gionta talk is what has everyone buzzing this training camp?

If I may guide us in a different direction, Havlat looked like a real veteran. Making passes like a playmaker, skating well, if that early preseason game is any indication of what's to come, I'm excited to see him possibly put up 10-18 goals and 28-40 assists. But as everyone knows he has to stay healthy. But its fun to dream.

Also Tootoo looks like he could be a relevant 4th line player unlike bernier. Hey I love Ryan Carter and I think Gionta is a decent 4th line player. But listen, 4th line players aren't hard to replace. Change isn't always a bad thing when it comes to a minimal position like that. Especially when the players aren't getting the job done at all. I.e. Bernier not scoring, hitting, forechecking, or bringing any energy. Put matteau on the 4th line before gionta, carter, JJ, or Bernier. Those players have all shown what they can do. Maybe JJ worked hard in the off season but I have to see it to believe it.

Matteau isn't going to be more than a 3rd or 4th line grinder anyway, give the guy a shot early in the season.

If Boucher plays all preseason like he did yesterday with ryder, there's no way you can keep him off the starting roster.

Kelly looked abysmal yesterday as did komiserik(sp?). Kaberle looked his age in regards to his speed and offensive ability.

I'm willing to give fedotenko all preseason to show what he has just because I personally believe he's still got something in the tank and he has good heart.

Larsson continues to do what he does best and that's get the puck to the net which I love. And be calm and poised with the puck. No reason for that man to not be on the starting lineup. If he's not on the starting lineup guess what, our head scout should be fired because if you FUBAR a top 5 pick, that's reason for immediate termination.

Edited by Bartholomew Hunt
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A coach likes Gionta because you know what you are going to get every single game with him.  Josefson's okay, but what does he give you?  What does he do well?  It's very unclear.  Gionta's going to fight in the corners, he will shoot the puck when he has the opportunity, and he'll do whatever's asked of him.   And he'll play some low-event hockey.

 

Josefson may be better, but he hasn't been able to separate himself.  Two years ago when Josefson was coming off a good 30 game stretch in the AHL, this debate made a lot more sense and Josefson was clearly ahead of GIonta, but now it's not that clear.

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Sorry BH...one last comment for now:

 

This wasn't strictly a Gionta gripe. It was about the 4th line as a whole. It's about a team desperately trying to improve the offense but for two years sticking with this group unless it was moving each of them up to a different line. This team needs more scoring, and I am positive a Ruutu-Josefson-Brunner line will be a major upgrade. That's a really nice group, so it was interesting that they would be together in a group of what was definitely 15 other skaters that will be in the lineup.

 

And, you want to keep Gio in the lineup, then you might as well keep a line with players like Carter or Bernier because Gionta with Brunner is not going to jive regardless what Deboer says (he said he loves how Gionta can play anywhere, and soon after he was playing two games with Elias). Gionta is not a real center and don't think he is capable of making a pass in the neutral zone. He really is only going to play one way. That style that the line plays is one the staff really like, but it's good that they tried something new today. Hope to see it in one exhibition game.

Edited by devilsrule33
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Sorry BH...one last comment for now:

 

This wasn't strictly a Gionta gripe. It was about the 4th line as a whole. It's about a team desperately trying to improve the offense but for two years sticking with this group unless it was moving each of them up to a different line. This team needs more scoring, and I am positive a Ruutu-Josefson-Brunner line will be a major upgrade. That's a really nice group, so it was interesting that they would be together in a group of what was definitely 15 skaters that will be in the lineup/

 

And, you want to keep Gio in the lineup, then you might as well keep a line with players like Carter or Bernier because Gionta with Brunner is not going to jive regardless what Deboer says (he said he loves how Gionta can play anywhere, and soon after he was playing two games with Elias). Gionta is not a real center and don't think he is capable of making a pass in the neutral zone. He really is only going to play one way. That style that the line plays is one the staff really like, but it's good that they tried something new today.

+ 100

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It looks like we're banking on Cam-Zajac-Jagr as the first line, I'm ok with that.

 

But it looks like we'll have the same problem with Zubrus on a different line this year. There has to be someone else we can play with Elias and Havlat right? Clowe? Brunner? Henrique on the wing? Really interested to see what Gomez brings, if he could play inspired hockey and pivot the third line that would be huge for us, letting Henrique slide over and play wing. If that's the case, I think it makes too much sense not to play Gomez with Ryder. However, than we need a winger with speed for them.

 

I think Boucher is great Havlat insurance. He gets hurt or goes down, Boucher should be the first one up.

 

Just spitballing here:

 

Cam-Zajac-Jagr

_x_ -Elias - Havlat

_y_ - Gomez - Ryder

_z_ - Gionta - Bernier

 

Henrique, Brunner, Clowe, Jofeson, Ruutu, Zubrus, Carter

 

I think we can assume JJ and Carter to be healthy scratches while these 3 jockey for position. Unless of course Ruutu gets tossed up with Zajer and Jagr and everything I've said to this point becomes mush. Also assumes Gomez makes the team. 

Edited by Devils Pride 26
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It looks like we're banking on Cam-Zajac-Jagr as the first line, I'm ok with that.

 

But it looks like we'll have the same problem with Zubrus on a different line this year. There has to be someone else we can play with Elias and Havlat right? Clowe? Brunner? Henrique on the wing? Really interested to see what Gomez brings, if he could play inspired hockey and pivot the third line that would be huge for us, letting Henrique slide over and play wing. If that's the case, I think it makes too much sense not to play Gomez with Ryder. However, than we need a winger with speed for them.

 

I think Boucher is great Havlat insurance. He gets hurt or goes down, Boucher should be the first one up.

 

Just spitballing here:

 

Cam-Zajac-Jagr

_x_ -Elias - Havlat

_y_ - Gomez - Ryder

_z_ - Gionta - Bernier

 

Henrique, Brunner, Clowe, Jofeson, Ruutu, Zubrus, Carter

 

I think we can assume JJ and Carter to be healthy scratches while these 3 jockey for position. Unless of course Ruutu gets tossed up with Zajer and Jagr and everything I've said to this point becomes mush. Also assumes Gomez makes the team. 

 

I know I made a similar assumption, but so far nothing in camp remotely shows that Gomez will make the team. So right now, that's a lot of questionable guessing when you got Gomez penciled in at 3C.

 

I'm surprised they didn't even give a look at Elias-Gomez-Havlat, with Gomez and Elias having years of chemistry together. But right now, they like Elias at Center and Zubrus on his wing.

Edited by devilsrule33
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I know I made a similar assumption, but so far nothing in camp remotely shows that Gomez will make the team. So right now, that's a lot of questionable guessing when you got Gomez penciled in at 3C.

 

I'm surprised they didn't even give a look at Elias-Gomez-Havlat, with Gomez and Elias having years of chemistry together. But right now, they like Elias at Center and Zubrus on his wing.

Yes, I had alluded to that in my post a couple of times. Like I said, spitballing something together for the fun of it. If he doesn't make the cut, I really see them going with Henrique as the third line center. However, I believe we should do everything possible to keep him on the wing.

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Yes, I had alluded to that in my post a couple of times. Like I said, spitballing something together for the fun of it. If he doesn't make the cut, I really see them going with Henrique as the third line center. However, I believe we should do everything possible to keep him on the wing.

 

I don't see how this is possible with the acquisition of Cammalleri and Ruutu.  You've got Ruutu, Clowe, Cammalleri, and Zubrus.  How does Henrique fit in there?

 

Gomez at center to put Henrique on the wing is probably worse than Henrique at center to begin with.

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A coach likes Gionta because you know what you are going to get every single game with him.  Josefson's okay, but what does he give you?  What does he do well?  It's very unclear.  Gionta's going to fight in the corners, he will shoot the puck when he has the opportunity, and he'll do whatever's asked of him.   And he'll play some low-event hockey.

 

Josefson may be better, but he hasn't been able to separate himself.  Two years ago when Josefson was coming off a good 30 game stretch in the AHL, this debate made a lot more sense and Josefson was clearly ahead of GIonta, but now it's not that clear.

Id like to see josefson do well of course, i feel bad for the guy. But i can't help having a smirk thinking about how you were calling me out on my opinion about JJ (i was saying he was simply not as good as some were making him to be and was a case of fans overrating their prospects again) with your whole... "Highest hockey IQ of the bunch and his defensive play was off the chart and will be the next zajac etc etc) and now youre pretty much saying what i was saying about him back then.

Edited by SterioDesign
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