Derlique Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 They arent going to hire someone to transition. Conte has been around too long and has too much clout for something that disrespectful to happen. I bet he steps down after the draft since Lou is no longer GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think scouting is one area where the stats guys would come in real handy. In this situation, I wouldn't mind if the owners appointed some scouts. Keep some of the regular scouts but definitely add the stats guys to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I want Conte out that's for sure. No need to can him before the draft but if you can get someone else to "help him" take over. Any scouts should have the same knowledge of the players going into the draft. That they are scouting for us or any other team, they all did their jobs. And with his track record Conte should have been fired quite awhile ago really. Drafting forwards has been a problem. But look at the defence we have managed to pick up even recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Conte likes size so naturally we will draft Crouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 In fairness I think Conte goes for skilled guys in the first three or so rounds and then when he should take fliers on boom/bust skill guys he starts picking WHL grinders. But how do you pick Connor Chatham? I so hope I'm wrong. He was BPA? I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 But how do you pick Connor Chatham? I so hope I'm wrong. He was BPA? I think not. He was ranked right in that area, even slightly higher, and obviously the Devils felt he was BPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Drafting forwards has been a problem. But look at the defence we have managed to pick up even recently. well... call me crazy but i'd like to have a good "all around" scout. Not that it's been a problem or anything but....oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Conte likes size so naturally we will draft Crouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 what i think you might see is shero put his stamp on the draft and say, i'm not drafting guys without speed. if they're big also, great. but a prerequisite has to be the ability to have speed and an agressive nature to your game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) well... call me crazy but i'd like to have a good "all around" scout. Not that it's been a problem or anything but....oh wait... Such a "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Edited June 3, 2015 by Chimaira_Devil_#9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Such a "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Our last "impact" forward we drafted was Zach in 2003... and guys like Getzlaf, burns, fehr, kesler, richards, perry, eriksson, bergeron went after him. So it's almost hard to give him credit for that year cause almost any guys would have been a good pick... before that? Gomez in 1998. It's a well documented fact. Conte SUCKS at drafting forwards. go through this list it's so sad. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007066.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Zajac and Henrique say hi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Zajac and Henrique say hi are you really gonna call a first line center who just scored like 23 points over a season an impact player? And every team has a Henrique. I like him but he's a borderline core guy. But hey... if it's that much better to have 3 "impact forward players drafted since 1998" instead of 1...... sweet man, sweet. Edited June 3, 2015 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 are you really gonna call a first line center who just scored like 23 points over a season an impact player? And every team has a Henrique. I like him but he's a borderline core guy. But hey... if it's that much better to have 3 "impact forward players drafted since 1998"...... sweet man, sweet. Zajac has been a 0.56 Pts/GP player thru 625 regular season games. Henrique has been a 0.57 Pts/GP player thru 269 regular season games. That's enough for me to say that they've made an impact. Of course most NHL teams have these guys and they aren't anything special but I wouldn't just ignore them. But yes, I do agree the Devils drafting of forwards leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully this is something that Shero can address going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Our last "impact" forward we drafted was Zach in 2003... and guys like Getzlaf, burns, fehr, kesler, richards, perry, eriksson, bergeron went after him. So it's almost hard to give him credit for that year cause almost any guys would have been a good pick... before that? Gomez in 1998. It's a well documented fact. Conte SUCKS at drafting forwards. go through this list it's so sad. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007066.html What that list shows is that the devils haven't taken a lot of forwards in the early rounds in recent times. Since 2008 we have taken a forward inside the first two rounds three times (one was last year) two of those picks were position 29 and 30. They haven't even picked a forward in the second round since then. Every pick has been 3rd round onwards. And they have got some quality. In that time they look at the quality of the D men they have taken. Also Zach was more than an impact forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Zajac has been a 0.56 Pts/GP player thru 625 regular season games. Henrique has been a 0.57 Pts/GP player thru 269 regular season games. That's enough for me to say that they've made an impact. Of course most NHL teams have these guys and they aren't anything special but I wouldn't just ignore them. But yes, I do agree the Devils drafting of forwards leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully this is something that Shero can address going forward. I know you're fair here and good post but you also know that his points total is inflated from playing with Zach and Kovy. It's totally something to take into consideration especially since we saw what he is without star players. But there's absolutely no way to sugarcoat his track record of drafting forwards... so the "what have you done for me lately" doesnt even apply here, not even closee" and well.... not trusting him this year with our pick is absolutely fair based on history. Edited June 3, 2015 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 He was ranked right in that area, even slightly higher, and obviously the Devils felt he was BPA. The issue I had with drafting Chatham was that Brayden Point was still available. Now I understand that if Point were such an obvious choice, he would have been taken earlier. But the Devils, even at that time, needed forwards that could score in the system in the worst way. Point may turn out to never make the NHL for all I know, but he has at least shown an ability to provide a lot of offense at some level. Chatham, if everything turns out the right way, may be as good as someone like Clowe, who is not the type of player the Devils need in the system. And I do think there is something to the argument that Conte, in recent years anyway, is obsessed with size, at the expense of passing on more skilled forwards. Everyone says the counter examples are players like Gomez, Gionta and Tedenby. But Tedenby was drafted in 2008, the others well before that. Since then I think there has been some sort of philosophical change to trying to land as many Zubrus type players as possible. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It's seeming like whoever takes Denis Guryanov is going to get a total steal. I hope it's the Devils! It's about time they get back into drafting Europeans anyway. The KHL factor may lower his stock quite a bit, but he seems like one of the more talented players in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It's seeming like whoever takes Denis Guryanov is going to get a total steal. I hope it's the Devils! It's about time they get back into drafting Europeans anyway. The KHL factor may lower his stock quite a bit, but he seems like one of the more talented players in this draft. Would you consider packaging our two 2nds to move up to get him late in the first round? I read many many good things about this kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The issue I had with drafting Chatham was that Brayden Point was still available. Now I understand that if Point were such an obvious choice, he would have been taken earlier. But the Devils, even at that time, needed forwards that could score in the system in the worst way. Point may turn out to never make the NHL for all I know, but he has at least shown an ability to provide a lot of offense at some level. Chatham, if everything turns out the right way, may be as good as someone like Clowe, who is not the type of player the Devils need in the system. And I do think there is something to the argument that Conte, in recent years anyway, is obsessed with size, at the expense of passing on more skilled forwards. Everyone says the counter examples are players like Gomez, Gionta and Tedenby. But Tedenby was drafted in 2008, the others well before that. Since then I think there has been some sort of philosophical change to trying to land as many Zubrus type players as possible. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Size aside, they also seem guilty of overvaluing results over short periods of time - Memorial Cup, national team tournaments etc. In the long run, I don't think this franchise is going anywhere until they change their draft evaluation and approach. Edited June 4, 2015 by Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Size aside, they also seem guilty of overvaluing results over short periods of time - Memorial Cup, national team tournaments etc. In the long run, I don't think this franchise is going anywhere until they change their draft evaluation and approach. I agree and IMO and of course i'm not a scout but in term of approaching the situation. Why would we draft guys in later rounds who are only projected to be bottom 6 guys? I mean... you can sign or trade for cheap bottom 6 guys no problem and we have TONS of it. Plus in general younger potential top guys should start on the 3rd line and work their way up so there's another reason why i don't understand why you wouldn't take an approach to go "all out" trying to get potential top 6 skilled guys who could be special instead of going for the safe pick / typical two way player, good defensively with low production ceiling player. You need to score to win, look at the Blackhawks they are really really good defensively but so they are so clutch with their scoring. You need guys who can step up and get you a goal when you need it the most. Goals against will always happen no matter what, you need guys to be able to score there's no way around it. Of course a guy who scores 110pts in juniors might not make the NHL at all or his game won't translate but one thing is for sure, NHL scorers were juniors scorers, maybe there's a few here and there but i dont think theres a lot of bottom 6 2way players ending their juniors career averaging 25-35 pts who ended up been really special skilled players, look at guys like Johnson right now, small skilled player and he's leading the playoffs in scoring, guys like Gallagher etc etc those guys can be game changers and we need that like there's no tomorrow and we have enough bottom 6 players to feed Africa for like 30 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I agree and IMO and of course i'm not a scout but in term of approaching the situation. Why would we draft guys in later rounds who are only projected to be bottom 6 guys? I mean... you can sign or trade for cheap bottom 6 guys no problem and we have TONS of it. Plus in general younger potential top guys should start on the 3rd line and work their way up so there's another reason why i don't understand why you wouldn't take an approach to go "all out" trying to get potential top 6 skilled guys who could be special instead of going for the safe pick / typical two way player, good defensively with low production ceiling player. You need to score to win, look at the Blackhawks they are really really good defensively but so they are so clutch with their scoring. You need guys who can step up and get you a goal when you need it the most. Goals against will always happen no matter what, you need guys to be able to score there's no way around it. Of course a guy who scores 110pts in juniors might not make the NHL at all or his game won't translate but one thing is for sure, NHL scorers were juniors scorers, maybe there's a few here and there but i dont think theres a lot of bottom 6 2way players ending their juniors career averaging 25-35 pts who ended up been really special skilled players, look at guys like Johnson right now, small skilled player and he's leading the playoffs in scoring, guys like Gallagher etc etc those guys can be game changers and we need that like there's no tomorrow and we have enough bottom 6 players to feed Africa for like 30 years Agree on just about everything. Tyler Johnson is just one of those weird exceptions - 0.5 PPG in draft year, not very good, then he put up alright numbers in his remaining WHL years, gets signed by Tampa and explodes in the AHL. Even the guys who become defensive defensemen in the NHL scored at a good rate in the CHL. Adam Foote was nearly a PPG defenseman! Anyways, if any of you guys are into draft analysis and #stats, check out the Prospect Cohort Success Model that a few Canucks blogger have been working on: http://canucksarmy.com/2015/5/26/draft-analytics-unveiling-the-prospect-cohort-success-model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Size aside, they also seem guilty of overvaluing results over short periods of time - Memorial Cup, national team tournaments etc. In the long run, I don't think this franchise is going anywhere until they change their draft evaluation and approach. great post. You can't change the spots on a leopard. i think a philosophical change is needed "Games are won and lost on the walls and in the corners", has been our calling card. add creativity pro favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Conte likes size so naturally we will draft Crouse I remember all the hype Teddy had when his stats weren't even the best. So many fans were hyping him to be the next MSL, I even bought into it for a bit.We could of had Carlson, ugh. Our defense seems to be okay right now but imagine how epic it would of been if we had Keith and Carlson. Edited June 4, 2015 by TheMazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessus Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Would you consider packaging our two 2nds to move up to get him late in the first round? I read many many good things about this kid. I would definitely consider that. People often get worried that some of the Russian players won't leave the KHL (and now there may be some more validity to that mindset after those comments by Fetisov), so I don't know what to make of that. But assuming he's lined up to play in the NHL in the future, I think I would make that trade. You may luck out with guys like Beauvillier and Rasmus Andersson with our two second round picks, but sometimes you've got to give up quite a bit if you want some high end forward talent. The Devils are certainly a team that needs it. Another thing to consider, though, is that if guys like Kuznetsov and Tarasenko have made it to the middle/end of the 1st round, it may be likely that Guryanov makes it to 36. Think about Nikita Kucherov, who had even more impressive MHL numbers (than Guryanov), he was on the board until the end of the second round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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