Devils - Sharks Trade Idea

[Bibby89]

Jenner is out 4 months also. 

[ThreeCups]

With a full time excellent goalie and continued possession, I'd agree that we can be a contender in the east, so I'd do that trade, too. Have to feel Lou likes this team a lot, as well.

 

 

Maybe he will try to make a splash for one more chance at glory before he rides into the sunset....

[hystyk28]

You of all people understand the significance of sample size. 37 games is hardly indicative of what he could do over a full season, I'd wager. And remove his fluke 4-goal game and he looks a lot more..average.

I wouldn't swap Larsson for Hertl straight up at this point. I'm obviously biased, but I still see Larsson developing into a cost-effective solid top-4 defenseman (essentially a Fayne-type with a better outlet pass).

He doesn't skate anywhere near Fayne's level. Fayne's skating was extremely under rated by people. Larsson has not even hinted at playing physically. You chose a really poor comparison. Larsson will be in Europe next season. I mentioned it before that the kid doesn't seem to have any swagger on the ice. Look at Seversen and even Gelinas, they play with an attitude like they belong there. Don't see that in Adam.

[Devil Dan 56]

He doesn't skate anywhere near Fayne's level. Fayne's skating was extremely under rated by people. Larsson has not even hinted at playing physically. You chose a really poor comparison. Larsson will be in Europe next season. I mentioned it before that the kid doesn't seem to have any swagger on the ice. Look at Seversen and even Gelinas, they play with an attitude like they belong there. Don't see that in Adam.

Gelinas' swagger still doesn't mean he can play defense yet. We will also definitely see some warts in Severson's game. Hes young and he's going to need time.

Everyone just likes the shiny new toy, but the fact remains that Larsson would just be breaking into the pros right now if he were American or Canadian

[devlman]

He doesn't skate anywhere near Fayne's level. Fayne's skating was extremely under rated by people. Larsson has not even hinted at playing physically. You chose a really poor comparison. Larsson will be in Europe next season. I mentioned it before that the kid doesn't seem to have any swagger on the ice. Look at Seversen and even Gelinas, they play with an attitude like they belong there. Don't see that in Adam.

Prepare to eat crow this year. Lars is getting better. People forget he's only 21. It's taken Johnson, Myers, and Hedman a while to get to their current levels.

[hystyk28]

Prepare to eat crow this year. Lars is getting better. People forget he's only 21. It's taken Johnson, Myers, and Hedman a while to get to their current levels.

He's getting better how?

I am more than confident in my assessment.

He blows.

[hystyk28]

Gelinas' swagger still doesn't mean he can play defense yet. We will also definitely see some warts in Severson's game. Hes young and he's going to need time.

Everyone just likes the shiny new toy, but the fact remains that Larsson would just be breaking into the pros right now if he were American or Canadian

Never said swagger equalled defense. Please reread.

Seversen is gonna have some disastrous moments, especially how he skates with the puck. In the preseason, he skated through the crease with the puck...in the NHL. But his skill set is there. Players don't suddenly gain skills at this point in their development, especially their skating. They spent the last 15+ years getting to this point. For the most part,their physical skills are set in concrete.

Edited October 8, 2014 by hystyk28

[Triumph]

Hertl played 37 games and 4 of his goals came in 1 game, Hertl's a good player, but he's not in that class

 

it takes skill to score 4 goals in a game.  he's going to be a solid 25-30 goal winger.

[sundstrom]

it takes skill to score 4 goals in a game.  he's going to be a solid 25-30 goal winger.

 

i mean...you know i had to do this:

 

[CarpathianForest]

i mean...you know i had to do this:

 

 

Don't forget those offensive dynamos John Madden and Randy McKay as well.

 

The Sharks do need help on their blue line, but I don't think they're going to be willing to turn their one problem with defense into another problem with offense by trading one of their better talents.

The Sharks also need a lot more grit and passion on their roster. I'm not sure Larsson could provide that.

[devlman]

He's getting better how?

I am more than confident in my assessment.

He blows.

His play and maturity. You don't think he's gotten worse, do you? If so, I can't agree with that, especially when he hasn't been given enough games to demonstrate his progress.

[Devil Dan 56]

Never said swagger equalled defense. Please reread.

Seversen is gonna have some disastrous moments, especially how he skates with the puck. In the preseason, he skated through the crease with the puck...in the NHL. But his skill set is there. Players don't suddenly gain skills at this point in their development, especially their skating. They spent the last 15+ years getting to this point. For the most part,their physical skills are set in concrete.

Using that logic, every player has hit their "skill threshold" at the age of 21. How do you explain players who hit their peak later? Andy Greene, for example. He broke into the NHL at 23 and definitely wasn't at the height of his skills for a few years

[mouse]

Using that logic, every player has hit their "skill threshold" at the age of 21. How do you explain players who hit their peak later? Andy Greene, for example. He broke into the NHL at 23 and definitely wasn't at the height of his skills for a few years

This. D is in large part about positioning and reading plays. If you don't play games at nhl speed, you're gonna mess that up unless you skate like Nieds and can bail yourself out. Larssom may not get there, but the fact that he's not there at 21 doesn't scare me.

[hystyk28]

His play and maturity. You don't think he's gotten worse, do you? If so, I can't agree with that, especially when he hasn't been given enough games to demonstrate his progress.

No, he's pretty much the same player he was the first time he stepped on NHL ice and that is where the problem lies. He is what he is.

[CarpathianForest]

No, he's pretty much the same player he was the first time he stepped on NHL ice and that is where the problem lies. He is what he is.

 

Not true. PK Soupcan has made him a bit skiddish.

[hystyk28]

Using that logic, every player has hit their "skill threshold" at the age of 21. How do you explain players who hit their peak later? Andy Greene, for example. He broke into the NHL at 23 and definitely wasn't at the height of his skills for a few years

You're making my point for me. Andy's skating was always there. Learning to navigate the rink at this level is what takes time. The cerebral part of the game is what people refer to when they say it takes years to become an effective d man in the league. Larson is an inferior skater plain and simple.

Edited October 9, 2014 by hystyk28

[CarpathianForest]

You're making my point for me. Andy's skating was always there. Learning to navigate the rink at this level is what takes time. The cerebral part of the game is what people refer to when they say it takes years to become an effective d man in the league. Larson is an inferior skater plain and simple.

 

 

Larsson used to be a pretty good skater. See PK Soupcan post above.

[hystyk28]

Not true. PK Soupcan has made him a bit skiddish.

Really that one hit made him slow with a weak shot and terrible reads in the d zone. Moving him to the West would be hysterical. They would have to Zamboni the ruts on his side of the rink during TV timeouts from everyone burning him to the outside all night. I mean he would do the patented weak Larsson arm push as they go by though.

As I said before, he is what he is.

[Devil Dan 56]

You're making my point for me. Andy's skating was always there. Learning to navigate the rink at this level is what takes time. The cerebral part of the game is what people refer to when they say it takes years to become an effective d man in the league. Larson is an inferior skater plain and simple.

 

Larsson's strength IS the cerebral part. He's a young prospect and has put up 38 points in 66 AHL games, plus played over 100 NHL games already. He averaged over 20 minutes a game in his rookie year. Sure his skating needs work, but to call him a bust at 21 is ridiculous. It'd be like calling Boucher, Matteau, or Merrill busts. I remember people writing off Hedman at a young age too. Now he's Tampa's main big minute guy. 

[DJ Eco]

He doesn't skate anywhere near Fayne's level. Fayne's skating was extremely under rated by people.

 

That's ridiculous.

 

I remember many people, including myself and the people around me at Devils games, regarding Fayne as a Peter Harrold-caliber player in his first 2 years. My god, the mistakes and brainfarts he used to make, I couldn't understand why Lou and then DeBoer were so enamored with him.

 

Two years made a hell of a difference, at which point he was about 25 years old, and he got even better in his 4th year (last season). Don't act like all the redeeming qualities in Fayne were there from the beginning of his tenure with the Devils and Albany, because they weren't.

 

If Andy Greene isn't a good enough example for you that "defenseman projects" (let's call it that) take time, then fine, currently 27 year old Fayne is the second best candidate. Not everyone is gonna come out of the draft like Erik Karlsson and be a team captain by age 24, simple as that.

 

 

 

Regardless, it's possible he can be the biggest bust the team ever had. But you don't trade him away when his stock is low. Better for us to say "Well that didn't work out" in a few years than to trade him for not much in return and he grows into an elite defenseman role elsewhere. That so many of you guys want to trade him is a good indication that his stock's not really that high around the league either.

Edited October 9, 2014 by DJ Eco

[Triumph]

That's ridiculous.

 

I remember many people, including myself and the people around me at Devils games, regarding Fayne as a Peter Harrold-caliber player in his first 2 years. My god, the mistakes and brainfarts he used to make, I couldn't understand why Lou and then DeBoer were so enamored with him.

 

Two years made a hell of a difference, at which point he was about 25 years old, and he got even better in his 4th year (last season). Don't act like all the redeeming qualities in Fayne were there from the beginning of his tenure with the Devils and Albany, because they weren't.

 

If Andy Greene isn't a good enough example for you that "defenseman projects" (let's call it that) take time, then fine, currently 27 year old Fayne is the second best candidate. Not everyone is gonna come out of the draft like Erik Karlsson and be a team captain by age 24, simple as that.

 

Yeah they were.  They were there from Game 1 in the NHL with Fayne for me - the first thing I noted about him was that he skates well.  You can find long defenses of early Fayne on this board by me if you like (or maybe they were over at In Lou We Trust, but they exist).  That doesn't mean I knew the guy was going to be as good as he turned out to be, because that's insane, but I remember thinking that at least his skating was NHL caliber.  That's a big deal, because the Devils had just used lots of Matt Corrente, and his skating is not NHL quality.

 

Andy Greenes are quite rare, and hystyk is right to note that the skating ability was always there with Greene, it was just a question of getting his decision-making down.  As I said elsewhere, if Larsson could just get his in-zone D down, his skating wouldn't be that big a deal, but in preseason at least he appeared to be guessing - he was putting his stick wherever, just hoping it would block the pass.

[Devilsfan118]

That's such crap Tri. Fayne was the scapegoat around here for his first few years, with few people ever acknowledging his skating ability. The hindsight here regarding Fayne is borderline hilarious.

Larsson is 21, he NEEDS TO PLAY TO GET BETTER.

But he won't be playing tonight, and, gauging by his quotes from TG, he won't be playing anytime soon.

Trade him. Get something for him before he either demands a trade or goes back to Europe with JJ.

[Devils731]

That's such crap Tri. Fayne was the scapegoat around here for his first few years, with few people ever acknowledging his skating ability. The hindsight here regarding Fayne is borderline hilarious.

Larsson is 21, he NEEDS TO PLAY TO GET BETTER.

But he won't be playing tonight, and, gauging by his quotes from TG, he won't be playing anytime soon.

Trade him. Get something for him before he either demands a trade or goes back to Europe with JJ.

I think the people who like to use numbers liked Fayne early on. The people who like the eyeball test took longer to warm up to him. Just going off my recollection.

[devils102]

I remember Fayne coming in the second half of the Johnny Mac season (10-11) and having a good finish to the year just like everyone else. The next year his offense dropped off somewhat and so did everyone's enthusiasm for him until the playoffs when he was strong again.

 

I think Larsson's problem is in his head. He has the tools, but he's lacking the confidence. I think the Devils rushed him into the league somewhat and he's still catching up physically and probably mentally. Just my guess. I'm not in the room obviously.

 

The positive to the Larsson situation is that no one drafted after him has had a TON of success in the league. And even if he flames out, we're deep on young D. It's a good problem to have.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

1. This trade offer is ridiculous as others have pointed out

 

2. I liked Fayne a lot from day one.  He showed he belonged in the NHL at the very least I thought, which is a big deal for a 5th round draft pick.  Whether that was only as a bottom pair guy or maybe more wasn't clear, but I was happy he was on the Devils.