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DeBoer "Firing Watch" Thread


mfitz804

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The stuff I am reading in this thread is shocking. DeBoer has no system? If anything he is too wedded to his system.

 

The thing is that I don't think the Devils have ever started seasons particularly well under DeBoer.  In 2011-12 they were terrible and I've been over that a hundred times so I don't really need to say it again.  In 2012-13 they had a good record but that was being masked by good goaltending and timely scoring - both of those went away by the end of the season but the system was strong.  And we all know the issues last year and that both Clowe and Jagr got off to rough starts before figuring things out.  So I'm not that concerned by this start because I've seen it before - the question is can the Devils make up for this later in the year, and I certainly think so, especially considering that they are not behind any of the playoff teams yet.  That's why this firing stuff is insane - Schneider's got a .901 SV% and the Devils have won 4 games this month.  The offense isn't going to sustain its pace but neither will Schneider.

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The stuff I am reading in this thread is shocking. DeBoer has no system? If anything he is too wedded to his system.

 

This, a million times.

 

First period and a half of last night are DeBoer's low event frustrating (to Pens fans) system. 

 

Second period and a half are a complete departure from that. Coach's job moving forward is to keep their concentration on the system in tact over the course of the game, simple as that. The way we beat quick Ottawa and Tampa Bay teams so far is the textbook on how we were supposed to beat the Penguins last night and the players just completely lost it.

Edited by DJ Eco
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The stuff I am reading in this thread is shocking. DeBoer has no system? If anything he is too wedded to his system.

WHOLEY UNDERWEAR!  Are you trying to deflect from your inane fire Hugh thread or what?

 

His system isn't a system -- it's bullsh!t.  It does not deserve the honor of being called a system.   ---- That was the whole freaking point!  Re-read this thread and comprehend what you're reading.  or print up some Drive out Hugh shirts - whatever floats your boat.

 

 

EDIT:

Oh jeesh... Well -- even with Tri and Eco's posts my point still stands.  DeBoer's system if you insist on calling it that - is not a winning system.  it's also extremely static. 

 

The Ineffable System  - built around the game of hockey - the never changing premise of hockey - it withstands all styles therein.  There are a few key points, around which there are mutable points. A system that allows for mutable points is the key to success. 

 

DeBoer's so called system has static unchanging points which result in static unchanging outcomes regardless of given circumstance. Blown leads for example.  I dont like to call it a system because it goes against all this is the former Devils System - which I love honor and respect to the ends of the hockey universe. 

 

and I'm not calling for his head -- I just want him to fvcking USE HIS!@  he's a damned stubborn fool OBVIOUSLY.

Edited by Pepperkorn
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WHOLEY UNDERWEAR!  Are you trying to deflect from your inane fire Hugh thread or what?

 

His system isn't a system -- it's bullsh!t.  It does not deserve the honor of being called a system.   ---- That was the whole freaking point!  Re-read this thread and comprehend what you're reading.  or print up some Drive out Hugh shirts - whatever floats your boat.

 

 

EDIT:

Oh jeesh... Well -- even with Tri and Eco's posts my point still stands.  DeBoer's system if you insist on calling it that - is not a winning system.  it's also extremely static. 

 

The Ineffable System  - built around the game of hockey - the never changing premise of hockey - it withstands all styles therein.  There are a few key points, around which there are mutable points. A system that allows for mutable points is the key to success. 

 

DeBoer's so called system has static unchanging points which result in static unchanging outcomes regardless of given circumstance. Blown leads for example.  I dont like to call it a system because it goes against all this is the former Devils System - which I love honor and respect to the ends of the hockey universe. 

 

and I'm not calling for his head -- I just want him to fvcking USE HIS!@  he's a damned stubborn fool OBVIOUSLY.

 

I'm curious to know what about it doesnt make it a system? From a tactical perspective.

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You need to be sectioned Pepperkorn.

At least she makes points rather than just whining that everyone else is wrong.

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If DeBoer gets canned, hire an interim and hope that Babcock doesn't get re-signed. I've always dreamed of having Mike Babcock behind the Devils' bench.

 

Same here. Oh man would he be a favorite around here.

..since the 2011-12 season, tell me.. how many steps forward has PD taken?

 

Well even if you're right (that he's taken steps back), you don't go out and hire Adam Oates, who took 10 steps back in his first stint as head coach and is currently unemployed, and say that's an upgrade.

 

That's like saying Carlo's Bakery is going down the tubes and making your birthday cake out of 7 Eleven donuts.

Edited by DJ Eco
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If DeBoer gets canned, hire an interim and hope that Babcock doesn't get re-signed. I've always dreamed of having Mike Babcock behind the Devils' bench.

 

I wonder if Babcock would ever be interested in moving up to GM. He'd be the perfect transition from Lou Lamoriello.

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You'll all nuts.  You're overreacting, and acting like the first 10 games are going to reflect the teams next 72.   Things can change pretty quickly and no one is happy after an 8-3 loss.  The rest of our division is fairly weak.  The comments in this thread make it seem like you think Lou doesn't watch the games.  Give me a break.

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You'll all nuts.  You're overreacting, and acting like the first 10 games are going to reflect the teams next 72.   Things can change pretty quickly and no one is happy after an 8-3 loss.  The rest of our division is fairly weak.  The comments in this thread make it seem like you think Lou doesn't watch the games.  Give me a break.

So I thought this would be a neat little math excursion. Your statement more or less checks out, especially over the last half dozen years there is very little correlation between how we start and finish.

A somewhat interesting note, a win tonight would essentially tie 2015 for our 3rd best start (point wise) since 2003, which one probably wouldn't assume based on a lot of this boards doom and gloom lately.

2015: 4-3-2 / 10 points / projected: 91.11 (based on 9 games thus far)

2014: 1-5-4  / 6 points  / projected:  49.2 / actual 88

2013: 6-1-3  / 15 points  / projected:  72 / actual 48 (48 game season)

2012: 4-5-1  / 9 points  / projected:  73.8 / actual 102

2011: 2-7-1  / 5 points  / projected:  41 / actual 81

2010: 6-4-0 / 12 points  / projected:  98.4 / actual 103

2009: 6-2-2 / 14 points  / projected:  114.8 / actual 106

2008: 3-6-1 / 7 points  / projected:  57.4 / actual 99

2007: 5-4-1 / 11 points  / projected:  90.2 / actual 107

2006: 5-5-0 / 10 points  / projected:  82 / actual 101

2005: =[

2004: 5-3-2-0 / 12 points / projected:  98.4 / actual 100

2003: 7-3-0-0 / 14 points / projected:  114.8 / actual 108

2002: 6-3-0-1 / 13 points / projected:  106.6 / actual 95

2001: 6-2-2-0 / 14 points / projected:  114.8 / actual 111

2000: 6-2-1-1 / 14 points / projected:  114.8 / actual 103

1999: 6-4-0 / 12 points / projected:  98.4 / actual 105

1998: 6-4-0 / 12 points / projected:  98.4 / actual 107

Edit: some other interesting notes between 98 and 2004 our average initial 10 game point totals was exactly 13, and we never deviated by more then +/-1 point. 

After the lockout (not including 2015) our average was 9.8 and deviations of -4.8 and +5.2. I don't think there is any predictive power there, but we have had much more erratic starts in the salary cap era (I imagine the same is true for the other 29 teams as well).

Pre lockout the 10 initial game projection average was 106.6, and the actual total points average was 104.14

Post lockout the 10 initial game projection average was 81.01 and the actual total points average was 95.87 (* i projected 2013 point totals proportionally to a full 82 game season)

 

Edited by squishyx
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You'll all nuts. You're overreacting, and acting like the first 10 games are going to reflect the teams next 72. Things can change pretty quickly and no one is happy after an 8-3 loss. The rest of our division is fairly weak. The comments in this thread make it seem like you think Lou doesn't watch the games. Give me a break.

People are not basing the Pete stuff on only nine games this year.

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Why have a special thread for this? You people talk about it on every thread anyway.

We got 10 out of 18 points with the oldest team in the league. Jesus we lost 3 games in a row and you'd think we were the Carolina Hurricanes. This forum has just turned into gionta/deboer bickering.

You'll all nuts. You're overreacting, and acting like the first 10 games are going to reflect the teams next 72. Things can change pretty quickly and no one is happy after an 8-3 loss. The rest of our division is fairly weak. The comments in this thread make it seem like you think Lou doesn't watch the games. Give me a break.

Thank you.

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People are not basing the Pete stuff on only nine games this year.

 

whoa whoa.. careful now!!! We're not allowed to bring up his 3 years in Florida......... or last season either!! (after all, poor Pete had so much to deal with the Brodeur\Schneider drama) Can't bring up what's happened thus-far.. this season just started after all. Can't look @ 2013 either!!!! That was a half-a-season lockout year, and should absolutely be stricken from the record.

All we will focus on his 2012. The wonderful, lovely, magnificent SCF run in 2012. Everything else with DeBoer doesn't matter as a Head Coach.. just 2012. Doesn't matter that this is his 7th year of exp. on the job.. 2012 should be the only season that gets glorified! :thumbsup:

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comments in this thread make it seem like you think Lou doesn't watch the games.  Give me a break.

no doubt. but ur still talking about a gm that is very sentimental and fond of players coaches that have had success here. i think lou is in debt to pdb for 2012, and i really cant see him firing him at all this season

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whoa whoa.. careful now!!! We're not allowed to bring up his 3 years in Florida......... or last season either!! (after all, poor Pete had so much to deal with the Brodeur\Schneider drama) Can't bring up what's happened thus-far.. this season just started after all. Can't look @ 2013 either!!!! That was a half-a-season lockout year, and should absolutely be stricken from the record.

All we will focus on his 2012. The wonderful, lovely, magnificent SCF run in 2012. Everything else with DeBoer doesn't matter as a Head Coach.. just 2012. Doesn't matter that this is his 7th year of exp. on the job.. 2012 should be the only season that gets glorified! :thumbsup:

 

Sure, go ahead, bring up his 3 years in Florida.  You can bring them up all you like.  The problem for you guys is that you can't just say 'He didn't make the playoffs in Florida, therefore he's no good' without sounding like an idiot.  Here is the team that came within one point of making the playoffs in 2008-09:

 

Stillman-Weiss-Horton

Booth-Frolik-Dvorak

Peltonen-Campbell-Zednik

McLean-Kreps-Stewart

 

Bouwmeester-Ballard

McCabe-Skrastins

Cullimore-Boynton

 

Vokoun

Anderson

 

Does this team look good to anyone?  Doesn't look good to me outside of the net.  In fact you have a ton of guys on this team who have looked worse elsewhere, although a lot of that's due to injury, but even the young players on this team have gone elsewhere and struggled.  And the teams just got worse from there.

 

On the final day of Deboer's Florida tenure, here is the lineup he put out there:

 

Booth-Weiss-Samsonov

Dadonov-Reasoner-Skille

Repik-Santorelli-Bergfors

Ti. Kennedy-Rissmiller-B. Thomas

 

Kulikov-Weaver

Ellerby-Garrison

C. Wilson-J. Callahan

 

Vokoun

 

This was in 2011.  Of this team, Garrison, Kulikov, Weaver, and Santorelli are the only NHL regulars left.  And that was 3 and a half years ago.

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People are not basing the Pete stuff on only nine games this year.

 

Sure they are.  Because the problems this year have not been the problems of years past.  The Devils have limited shots against to a ridiculous degree the last 2 seasons.  That's not been the case so far this year.  They also have had trouble scoring the last two years, and that has not been an issue this year either.   You can say 'blown leads' but I don't think that's a coaching thing and that's again having to do more with allowing that many shots.

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whoa whoa.. careful now!!! We're not allowed to bring up his 3 years in Florida......... or last season either!! (after all, poor Pete had so much to deal with the Brodeur\Schneider drama) Can't bring up what's happened thus-far.. this season just started after all. Can't look @ 2013 either!!!! That was a half-a-season lockout year, and should absolutely be stricken from the record.

All we will focus on his 2012. The wonderful, lovely, magnificent SCF run in 2012. Everything else with DeBoer doesn't matter as a Head Coach.. just 2012. Doesn't matter that this is his 7th year of exp. on the job.. 2012 should be the only season that gets glorified! :thumbsup:

 

Beezer, you shouldn't bring up Florida. You don't have a clue if he did a good job or not. But Lou thought so enough to hire him. That's all that should really matter in the equation. 

 

You are completely making up people's arguments. No one is saying focus on 2012.  No one is saying the lockout should be stricken from the record.

 

Some people are saying, man the 2013 team played damn well since Lou replaced Parise with PLAN B (Bobby Butler) and also lost Sykora's 20 goals. Shockingly they started losing over and over only when Kovalchuk went down. But they were really playing well during that stretch and most of the year. Unfortunately Brodeur was bad, and Johan Hedberg was even worse when Brodeur went down....like bad to the tune of .883 save percentage playing in almost half the team's games that year. The Devils only gave up the fewest shots on goal that year. That wasn't saving them from Brodeur's suckyness and Hedberg's much worse suckyness.

 

Are these "excuses" not valid enough? What about Lou so desperately trying to find offense bringing back Pony, trading for Loktionov,  Sullivan, adding D'Agostini, or Kostopolous. after 18-year old Stephan Matteau didn't work. Again, this team was still able to play some fantastic hockey. Losses like this were awful (look at the SOG. Look at the roster)

 

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201304120NJD.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201303250OTT.html

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201304150TOR.html

 

 

On another note, I've heard a lot about 2012 result being a fluke? Why is it a fluke? The only thing flukey may have been Marty Brodeur playing so well after the 1st round at his age. That was a very good team that dominated the Flyers, played better than the Rangers, and mostly played better than the Panthers. It was close against Florida, but that's what happens sometimes in these series. There are close calls on Stanley Cup Finals runs. Just in the last 4 years...

 

The Canucks and Bruins both survived game 7 OTs in the first round on their way  to a Finals matchup

The Bruins came back from a 4-1 deficit with 9 minutes to go in Game 7 only to win and advance to the Finals.

The Kings were getting curb-stomped by the Sharks for 3 games last year before turning it around while the Rangers got through two game 7s

 

Maybe call it a fluke, if he had the exact same team the last 4 years. They lost Zach Parise. Lou was right when he said you don't replace Zach Parise. They have badly missed his tenacious scoring the past two years. Regardless what people wanted to say when he left, he's one of the best hockey players in the league. When you lose him, you need goaltending, and that was not up to par even with elite team defense. 

 

Anyway, the last few years have sucked. I'll just continue to fight that Deboer had little to do with it. Again, you want to bring up the Panthers without knowing what that team was about or what he did. Go ahead. Not like the Panthers have flourished with him gone (1st overall pick this yr). Not like they have only been a basement dweller for the past 15 years. And as Tri pointed out just before I posted this, not like they had a good team when he was there.

Edited by devilsrule33
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I disagree with getting rid of DB. Do you think he's coaching a stanley cup calibre team? Seriously? Would Babcock be doing better with this same personel?

 

4 basic D  rookies (Merrill, Severson, Gellinas, & Lars_ yet, he's RUINING our young players?

 

I'm sorry folks, but you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh>t

 

This team, as constructed, is fair to midlin, no coach is coming in here and "fixing" anything

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