The Devils are bad and it's time to tank

[EdgeControl]

Jagr and patty will be of little use when we are ready to make a cup run again, get what you can for them (err, him) now

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Jagr and patty will be of little use when we are ready to make a cup run again, get what you can for them (err, him) now

 

Would you want to be on the hook for $5.5 million next season, for a 39-year-old Elias?  If you deal for him, that's what you've got on your 2015-16 payroll.  If he gets hot, maybe someone bites at the deadline...but I don't think he'll ever be moved.

[Triumph]

Zidlicky would bring back at least a 2nd rounder if his bonus was paid up, he's hardly owed any cash and he's still going to put up lots of points on this team.  Teams always need this kind of player at the deadline.

[dmann422]

their plan is to have a lot of draft picks, then as those get closer to having to be picked, they trade them for more future draft picks while telling their fans about how great things are going. and while i'm not thrilled with lou and some of his moves, look at what harris and co. have done with the sixers gm jobs. it's not pretty. based on that alone i don't know how much "better" it would get sadly.

it is ridiculous to try and compare an nba team to an nhl team, the sports are so completely different in so many ways both on and off the court that it doesn't make sense. That fact that they have the same owner has little to do with actual on ice decisions.

(Not just directing this to you but whoever brought up the sixers in the first place.)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Zidlicky would bring back at least a 2nd rounder if his bonus was paid up, he's hardly owed any cash and he's still going to put up lots of points on this team.  Teams always need this kind of player at the deadline.

 

I said middle-round, but I really was thinking a 3rd.  If he's playing reasonably well (and good teams will able to cover up for his mistakes), sure, a 2nd doesn't seem crazy.

[Derlique]

Ugh... couldn't this thread wait until January or February? It's too early to be talking about the trade deadline and what we can get for player x. We're  tied with the Rangers FFS

[Triumph]

Ugh... couldn't this thread wait until January or February? It's too early to be talking about the trade deadline and what we can get for player x. We're  tied with the Rangers FFS

 

Yeah, I'm not selling anyone off yet, but they need to start getting some points.  

 

I said middle-round, but I really was thinking a 3rd.  If he's playing reasonably well (and good teams will able to cover up for his mistakes), sure, a 2nd doesn't seem crazy.

 

Sorry, when I think of middle-round I think of 4th/5th.

[Daniel]

I could see Tampa trading one of the two first round picks it has this year for Jagr, if they really think they have a shot at the Cup. 

[jim777]

I think the goalie will be fine. It's an old team, and that's sad honestly, but it would feel better if we at least had what could be the start of a rebuilding going on. We seem to just patch holes constantly, instead of looking for foundation pieces. Or, when we get a foundation piece like Larsson, he sits too much. I don't know if we need to let go of the coach or the GM, but we can't get the rebuild/reset started with both of them here it seems. We are in an endless cycle of patching, and this thing needs new tires.

[SterioDesign]

It sucks cause were in a bad spot having to make hard decisions cause hard decisions werent made in the past. I'm obviously not a GM im simply a nobody on an internet forum but i did call what i'd do before Lou took action (or didnt) and turns out we would be in a better spot if i was actually the GM. (Thats not saying i think i could be a GM is simply showing that Lou took sh!t decisions and gambled wayyyyy too much, his win now / not thinking of the future mentality killed the team. Actually i think its simply selfish of him cause he knew he won't be here for too long and wanted to win and simply don't care for what's left when he's leaving.

 

1- Zach. As much it was a hard thing to do Lou HAD to give an ultimatum to Zach that summer, he simply couldn't go for a 1 year deal.

 

Lou's results = Losing zach for nothing. SD's estimated results = Trade him if you either can't pay for him because of the ownership or if he wants to want for more. Im sure a first round 9 (they had 7th overall that year) + top prospect + NHL player at least would have come back to NJ. The wild had tons of great prospects back then too. And thats only if they would have traded with Minny. more team would have been in for sure.

 

The cup finals arguments? yeah. well turns out we didn't win. The revenue we got out of it is the only good thing about it. Not worth the sh!t team were watching now if you ask me.

 

2- Clarkson. We we're a bubble team who just lost a 30 goals scorer we couldnt risk losing another one + if we had a chance of not making the playoffs. Had to look for the future there and not risk him. 

 

Lou's results = Losing Clarkson for nothing.  SD's estimated results = Trade him at the deadline for decent return. He was coming off a 30 goals season and was on pace for a good one that season. Was still seen has a warrior who could do it all and entering his prime. We could have got a first round pick for him for sure from some teams, even a prospect or a pick.

 

See where the "were in the playoffs run it would be CRAZY to trade a 3rd line player!" brought us?

 

3- Salvador. Not signing him to 4 years at that money. Not giving him the C. I dont even have to go deeper into that one. 

 

4- Fayne. Lou had to see what was coming and had to make room for Fayne cause he was the obvious replacement for Sal. Now we lost Fayne for nothing and have no one to replace Salvador until Santini and we have to see fvcking captain useless do his sh!tshow night after  night.

 

5- 29th pick. If you have to forfeit a pick in the next 4 years and get the 29th pick. For the love of god give up that fvcking pick. There's no excuse for that one.

 

Lou's result = Matteau SD's estimated results = 2014 10th overall pick. Nick Ritchie went at that pick but god knows who we coul have picked.

 

Just from all of those decisions of course we'd had more assets and players on our roster and less need to go and overpay on the market or need to fill so many holes.

 

I know thats all easy to say "now" but i DID say what i'd do before all of that happened. The only 2 moves Lou did that turns out really good that i would have never made is the Jagr signing and trading for Schneider. Gotta give him credits for that.

 

Bottom line. I'm no GM but i've been called out like crazy here by the Lou's defenders. But see what a simple "lesser win now no matter what and look for the future" kind of mentality could have brought this team. We could have skipped an official "rebuilt" just with those moves. Not it seems like we'll have to go through it no matter what.

 

Haters gonna hate. I dont expect any of my haters to suddenly say that im right but it's hard to deny all those points. We'd be in a very very better position than now.

[Devil Dan 56]

20/20 hindsight is neat-o.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

im simply a nobody on an internet forum

 

Yep.

 

 

Haters gonna hate. I dont expect any of my haters to suddenly say that im right but it's hard to deny all those points. We'd be in a very very better position than now.

 

People who dare to point out flaws in your (very simplistic) ideas aren't "haters" by default...just like people who defend Lou aren't all pure Lou fanboys.  You NEVER take into account the circumstances at the time of when some of these things happened (some of which are far more complex than you seem willing to acknowledge), and in this latest post of brilliance, a lot of your "alternate SD universe" scenarios are based on overly optimistic speculation (UFAs-to-be don't always bring back as much as fans expect, and just because you get some higher draft picks doesn't automatically mean they'll turn into players who will help you).  Your mentality often comes down to "Well since that didn't work out, then Lou should've done this instead".  When you just say "Haters gonna hate"..."Well it's my opinion"...those statements are the kind of things 13-year-olds say when they're losing the argument or are just making themselves sound idiotic, but can't/won't admit it or simply are incapable of seeing it. 

 

Anyway, friggin' EVERYONE who spends any appreciable time on njdevs.com already knows how you feel about the moves you listed, and about Lou in general, so like I said, start a thread where the people who still think it's worthwhile to debate you on those points can go to, so you don't have to post what amounts to the same damned thing across several threads.   

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

 

5- 29th pick. If you have to forfeit a pick in the next 4 years and get the 29th pick. For the love of god give up that fvcking pick. There's no excuse for that one.

 

Lou's result = Matteau SD's estimated results = 2014 10th overall pick. Nick Ritchie went at that pick but god knows who we coul have picked.

 

Just from all of those decisions of course we'd had more assets and players on our roster and less need to go and overpay on the market or need to fill so many holes.

 

You cant be serious with this one?

 

The way that panned out in the end was incredibly lucky.

 

In SD world we lose a pick. In reality we kept all of them!!

 

And we took Quenneville at the end of the draft,  who is currently at 1ppg pace , looks solid and has received great feedback from scouts. Ritchie has an additional year under his belt and is only just over 1ppg pace.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Ok, anyone else petitioning to have SD be our general manager!?

No?

No.

Did you like Henrique's goal against the Rangers? Does that ECF banner make you proud? Maybe we were going to lose zach, *maybe*. But if we trade him at that deadline, none of that magic happens.

EDIT: I just went back and re-read everything again. You're an absolute fvcking troll. Finally it's time to put you on ignore. Sweet designs on the website though. you're really good at what you do. stick to that - not being an armchair GM and making a forum full of strangers want to strangle you.

This made me LOL

Only you could get a compliment into a post telling someone you were sticking them on ignore and telling them they are a troll.

Continuing the OT: SD's work is A.Mazing. Check it out if you haven't already.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Chimaira_Devil_#9

[BostonNala370]

I just checked out SD's work at his web site he does do nice work.

Great job SD

[devlman]

 

5- 29th pick. If you have to forfeit a pick in the next 4 years and get the 29th pick. For the love of god give up that fvcking pick. There's no excuse for that one.

 

Lou's result = Matteau SD's estimated results = 2014 10th overall pick. Nick Ritchie went at that pick but god knows who we coul have picked.

 

 

 

It actually worked out for us. And you cannot compare this situation to anything else because who is to say we wouldve gotten a 2014 pick from the League had we forfeited an earlier pick? The league could just have easily told us the Kovy penalty was rescinded and we can pick in the 2014 draft, but at the bottom. We actually gained a pick from not forfeiting.

[RunninWithTheDevil]

Ok, anyone else petitioning to have SD be our general manager!? 

 

No?

 

No.

 

Did you like Henrique's goal against the Rangers? Does that ECF banner make you proud? Maybe we were going to lose zach, *maybe*. But if we trade him at that deadline, none of that magic happens.

EDIT: I just went back and re-read everything again. You're an absolute fvcking troll. Finally it's time to put you on ignore. Sweet designs on the website though. you're really good at what you do. stick to that - not being an armchair GM and making a forum full of strangers want to strangle you.

 

me and MB have disagreed on just about everything in our 7-8 years here.  We finally see eye-to-eye on this one. Time to ignore.

 

And it sucks SD because I (and a lot of other posters) used to like you.  We're both graphic designers so I used to be able to relate to you.  You've become a broken record and a troll.  I don't agree with Daniel either a lot of the time; but at least Dan can put forward valid arguments and hold thought-provoking debate.  In your world instead of having that amazing run in 2012, that late game-7 Henrique goal to get past the first round, destroying the Flyers, beating the Rags for the ECC, Henrique its over; instead of all that, we tank, trade the talent and MAYBE get some picks and lower-caliber players. On top of that, this guy was fvcking LIVID when we signed Cammy.

 

Bottom line. I'm no GM

 

 

Thank fvcking christ for that.

[SterioDesign]

me and MB have disagreed on just about everything in our 7-8 years here.  We finally see eye-to-eye on this one. Time to ignore.

 

And it sucks SD because I (and a lot of other posters) used to like you.  We're both graphic designers so I used to be able to relate to you.  You've become a broken record and a troll.  I don't agree with Daniel either a lot of the time; but at least Dan can put forward valid arguments and hold thought-provoking debate.  In your world instead of having that amazing run in 2012, that late game-7 Henrique goal to get past the first round, destroying the Flyers, beating the Rags for the ECC, Henrique its over; instead of all that, we tank, trade the talent and MAYBE get some picks and lower-caliber players. On top of that, this guy was fvcking LIVID when we signed Cammy.

 

Thank fvcking christ for that.

 

I did really enjoy the 2-3 months cup run, it was amazing yes. You think it's 100% clear in my mind that i'd trade that final for everything i said? And also, i said that i called those decisions even before the cup run so it's really not as if anyone here or Lou had the clear decision. "do i trade zach or do i go to the cup finals?" As a "business decision" he took the good decision short term and the wrong decision long term. Like most of his decisions actually.

 

But the back to back to back seasons of terrible TERRIBLE and frustrating hockey following that and looking forward and seeing it's not gonna get any better anytime soon is certainly a concern. The team literally fell apart after the cup run.

 

And again my points we're not as if "I" was the GM, I simply have more of a safe and long-term mentality. I find you have to "balance" your choices in order to stay competitive at the moment but assure for the future cause that's a huge gamble. Lou simply goes win-now all the time (betting on veteran, never trading guys unless he really really have to at the deadline, putting everything all in for a little chance to make it). Which of course can be a good asset at times to develop a winning culture, but there's moment you have to adjust and play safe. He didnt and its biting the team in the ass right now there's no denial there.

 

I still hate Cammalleri as a person, i never bashed his play or anything i always simply said i hated the guy. Just like i hated Clarkson for diving all the time. I still took his goals.

[SterioDesign]

It actually worked out for us. And you cannot compare this situation to anything else because who is to say we wouldve gotten a 2014 pick from the League had we forfeited an earlier pick? The league could just have easily told us the Kovy penalty was rescinded and we can pick in the 2014 draft, but at the bottom. We actually gained a pick from not forfeiting.

 

Thats a fair point but work with me here im honestly not trying to troll. If you have a decision like that to make... it's all about trying to limit the "damages" but it's hard cause you don't have all the data to calculate your odds and everything. You're betting on estimation where you have no control at all.

 

thats like saying "I ran blindfold across the road and i didnt get hit". Was it a good decision on paper to run across the road blindfolded? No. Is it still a good decision since you actually got where you had to go faster? Well no..... Throwing a rock across a school yard when kids are outside.. not a good decision... that you're hitting someone or not. It does not become a good decision once you didnt hit anyone. Outside variables relying on luck and circonstances can't back up a good decision.

 

We got it easy and things worked out because of the new owners, it's not because of Lou and it doesnt make it a good decision still.

 

The "moment" he didnt give up that 29th pick "could" have been catastrophic. He had to give up a pick and had the 29th pick... that's a gambling chip in your hand where you KNOW what you're gonna lose. It's the safest thing you can do. What if we would have finished at the bottom those remaining years? (well we actually did but even lower)... or what if we would have finished higher the year we traded for schneider? maybe Vancouver would have passed on a higher pick and we wouldnt have schneider now.

 

Like i said im glad and i get the point that "it didnt bite us in the ass so it's all good" but to me it really doesnt mean that it was a good decision by him.

[SterioDesign]

Yep.

 

 

 

People who dare to point out flaws in your (very simplistic) ideas aren't "haters" by default...just like people who defend Lou aren't all pure Lou fanboys.  You NEVER take into account the circumstances at the time of when some of these things happened (some of which are far more complex than you seem willing to acknowledge), and in this latest post of brilliance, a lot of your "alternate SD universe" scenarios are based on overly optimistic speculation (UFAs-to-be don't always bring back as much as fans expect, and just because you get some higher draft picks doesn't automatically mean they'll turn into players who will help you).  Your mentality often comes down to "Well since that didn't work out, then Lou should've done this instead".  When you just say "Haters gonna hate"..."Well it's my opinion"...those statements are the kind of things 13-year-olds say when they're losing the argument or are just making themselves sound idiotic, but can't/won't admit it or simply are incapable of seeing it. 

 

Anyway, friggin' EVERYONE who spends any appreciable time on njdevs.com already knows how you feel about the moves you listed, and about Lou in general, so like I said, start a thread where the people who still think it's worthwhile to debate you on those points can go to, so you don't have to post what amounts to the same damned thing across several threads.   

 

Well of course I can't disagree that my scenarios were overly optimistic of course, and living in the "what if" world. there's no denial. But the facts are that Lou's decisions crippled the team for quiiiiite awhile.

 

At least im armless.

 

And my mentality is NEVER  "Well since that didn't work out, then Lou should've done this instead" my mentality is always "Lou shouldnt do this" THEN he does it and it backfires then im back with "well there ya go just like i said"... it's really not the same

Edited November 12, 2014 by SterioDesign

[Lateralous]

It sucks cause were in a bad spot having to make hard decisions cause hard decisions werent made in the past. I'm obviously not a GM im simply a nobody on an internet forum but i did call what i'd do before Lou took action (or didnt) and turns out we would be in a better spot if i was actually the GM. (Thats not saying i think i could be a GM is simply showing that Lou took sh!t decisions and gambled wayyyyy too much, his win now / not thinking of the future mentality killed the team. Actually i think its simply selfish of him cause he knew he won't be here for too long and wanted to win and simply don't care for what's left when he's leaving.

 

1- Zach. As much it was a hard thing to do Lou HAD to give an ultimatum to Zach that summer, he simply couldn't go for a 1 year deal.

 

Lou's results = Losing zach for nothing. SD's estimated results = Trade him if you either can't pay for him because of the ownership or if he wants to want for more. Im sure a first round 9 (they had 7th overall that year) + top prospect + NHL player at least would have come back to NJ. The wild had tons of great prospects back then too. And thats only if they would have traded with Minny. more team would have been in for sure.

 

The cup finals arguments? yeah. well turns out we didn't win. The revenue we got out of it is the only good thing about it. Not worth the sh!t team were watching now if you ask me.

 

2- Clarkson. We we're a bubble team who just lost a 30 goals scorer we couldnt risk losing another one + if we had a chance of not making the playoffs. Had to look for the future there and not risk him. 

 

Lou's results = Losing Clarkson for nothing.  SD's estimated results = Trade him at the deadline for decent return. He was coming off a 30 goals season and was on pace for a good one that season. Was still seen has a warrior who could do it all and entering his prime. We could have got a first round pick for him for sure from some teams, even a prospect or a pick.

 

See where the "were in the playoffs run it would be CRAZY to trade a 3rd line player!" brought us?

 

3- Salvador. Not signing him to 4 years at that money. Not giving him the C. I dont even have to go deeper into that one. 

 

4- Fayne. Lou had to see what was coming and had to make room for Fayne cause he was the obvious replacement for Sal. Now we lost Fayne for nothing and have no one to replace Salvador until Santini and we have to see fvcking captain useless do his sh!tshow night after  night.

 

5- 29th pick. If you have to forfeit a pick in the next 4 years and get the 29th pick. For the love of god give up that fvcking pick. There's no excuse for that one.

 

Lou's result = Matteau SD's estimated results = 2014 10th overall pick. Nick Ritchie went at that pick but god knows who we coul have picked.

 

Just from all of those decisions of course we'd had more assets and players on our roster and less need to go and overpay on the market or need to fill so many holes.

 

I know thats all easy to say "now" but i DID say what i'd do before all of that happened. The only 2 moves Lou did that turns out really good that i would have never made is the Jagr signing and trading for Schneider. Gotta give him credits for that.

 

Bottom line. I'm no GM but i've been called out like crazy here by the Lou's defenders. But see what a simple "lesser win now no matter what and look for the future" kind of mentality could have brought this team. We could have skipped an official "rebuilt" just with those moves. Not it seems like we'll have to go through it no matter what.

 

Haters gonna hate. I dont expect any of my haters to suddenly say that im right but it's hard to deny all those points. We'd be in a very very better position than now.

 

I'm generally of the opinion that Lou has been a below average GM who has been both slow to adapt to the changes in the way the game is played and has made some absolutely bizarre personal decisions since the lost season in 2005.  That being said, I'm not sure all of these are totally on Lou. 

 

1.  I don't think it's any secret that if it was Lou's choice, he would have kept Parise over Kovy.  He was in a tough spot with the Ownership so I think he asked Parise to take the one year deal in an attempt to be able to lock him up long term the following Summer if the financials were straightened out.   Over the course of the season, I think Parise and his family probably developed some resentment on how he had to wait for his pay day compared to Kovy given each of their contributions to the club.   Lou took a gamble and lost Parise but I'm pretty satisfied with the 2012 ECF in Parise's last season and the signing of Cammallerri as his replacement with the money that was freed up.  Even with 20/20 hindsight, I think Lou did the best he possibly could have with the hand he was dealt in this case. 

 

2.  In the salary cap era, I don't think it is as important to get assets for your impending free agents since the cap space itself is an asset.   Lou got Clarkson's best seasons and knew exactly when to cut ties so I think he did well there.   The problem is that he seemed hellbent on using this money for a 2nd/3rd line grinder who could pot a few goals while also policing the ice to the point that he gave a guy with Clowe's speed and recent injury history a stupid contract in both $$ and term.         

 

3.  Agreed, this contract was puzzling from day 1.  Given the glut of defenseman including the young guys, there was no on-ice reason to bring Salvador back.  The captaincy has just complicated things even more.   

 

4.  Agreed.  Fayne is what a defensive defenseman in 2014 should look like.  With very few exceptions, there is no longer a role for a defenseman who can do nothing with the puck other than chipping it up the boards, especially if they are way past their prime defensively like Salvador. There was no excuse to lose Fayne for the term and money he got with the Oilers, especially when we knew we would need a few guys to stabilize the D while the young guys had their inevitable growing pains.  Greene-Severson, Fayne-Zidlicky, Larsson-Merrill would have looked pretty damn good with Gelinas as a 7th and eventual replacement for Zidlicky.  That also opens up the possibility of trading one of the young d-men for additional offensive assets.   

 

5.  On the surface, there is absolutely no excuse for this.  All I can think of is the Lou was given the indication that he would be given some relief once VBK was out of the picture since he seemed to be the driving force on the Kovy contract.  At this point, it's debatable if the 2012 29th + 2014 30th is better than the 2014th 10th overall.  

 

For a while there, I though Lou was going to eventually leave this team completely barren of anything in an attempt to make one last run for he and Marty. It certainly looked that way up until probably the Schenider trade.  While I think he's made a lot bad moves, this is actually the best I've felt about the future of the Devils in a longtime.  The Schenider is locked up long term, the defense looks stacked for years to come with a possible star in Severson and we at least have a few forwards developing slowly in the minors that could eventually turn into decent 2nd and 3rd line forwards.  Whether it be Lou or the next GM, it's set up relatively well that if we can get lucky drafting one really good young forward and make a good trade or two, this team could be back to being a contender in the not to distant future.   

[Daniel]

It sucks cause were in a bad spot having to make hard decisions cause hard decisions werent made in the past. I'm obviously not a GM im simply a nobody on an internet forum but i did call what i'd do before Lou took action (or didnt) and turns out we would be in a better spot if i was actually the GM. (Thats not saying i think i could be a GM is simply showing that Lou took sh!t decisions and gambled wayyyyy too much, his win now / not thinking of the future mentality killed the team. Actually i think its simply selfish of him cause he knew he won't be here for too long and wanted to win and simply don't care for what's left when he's leaving.

 

1- Zach. As much it was a hard thing to do Lou HAD to give an ultimatum to Zach that summer, he simply couldn't go for a 1 year deal.

 

Lou's results = Losing zach for nothing. SD's estimated results = Trade him if you either can't pay for him because of the ownership or if he wants to want for more. Im sure a first round 9 (they had 7th overall that year) + top prospect + NHL player at least would have come back to NJ. The wild had tons of great prospects back then too. And thats only if they would have traded with Minny. more team would have been in for sure.

 

The cup finals arguments? yeah. well turns out we didn't win. The revenue we got out of it is the only good thing about it. Not worth the sh!t team were watching now if you ask me.

 

2- Clarkson. We we're a bubble team who just lost a 30 goals scorer we couldnt risk losing another one + if we had a chance of not making the playoffs. Had to look for the future there and not risk him. 

 

Lou's results = Losing Clarkson for nothing.  SD's estimated results = Trade him at the deadline for decent return. He was coming off a 30 goals season and was on pace for a good one that season. Was still seen has a warrior who could do it all and entering his prime. We could have got a first round pick for him for sure from some teams, even a prospect or a pick.

 

See where the "were in the playoffs run it would be CRAZY to trade a 3rd line player!" brought us?

 

3- Salvador. Not signing him to 4 years at that money. Not giving him the C. I dont even have to go deeper into that one. 

 

4- Fayne. Lou had to see what was coming and had to make room for Fayne cause he was the obvious replacement for Sal. Now we lost Fayne for nothing and have no one to replace Salvador until Santini and we have to see fvcking captain useless do his sh!tshow night after  night.

 

5- 29th pick. If you have to forfeit a pick in the next 4 years and get the 29th pick. For the love of god give up that fvcking pick. There's no excuse for that one.

 

Lou's result = Matteau SD's estimated results = 2014 10th overall pick. Nick Ritchie went at that pick but god knows who we coul have picked.

 

Just from all of those decisions of course we'd had more assets and players on our roster and less need to go and overpay on the market or need to fill so many holes.

 

I know thats all easy to say "now" but i DID say what i'd do before all of that happened. The only 2 moves Lou did that turns out really good that i would have never made is the Jagr signing and trading for Schneider. Gotta give him credits for that.

 

Bottom line. I'm no GM but i've been called out like crazy here by the Lou's defenders. But see what a simple "lesser win now no matter what and look for the future" kind of mentality could have brought this team. We could have skipped an official "rebuilt" just with those moves. Not it seems like we'll have to go through it no matter what.

 

Haters gonna hate. I dont expect any of my haters to suddenly say that im right but it's hard to deny all those points. We'd be in a very very better position than now.

 

The only things that I'll kind of agree with you is Lou not trading Clarkson at the 2013 deadline, and even then we don't know if Lou actually did talk with other teams, but the return was so low that he said might as well take a shot at the playoffs.  The other was making Salvador the captain, and not necessarily the three (not four year deal). 

 

The rumor about keeping the 29th pick was a calculated gamble that Vasilevski would be available, and all indications are that it would have paid off nicely as he was very, very good as a 19 and 20 year old in the KHL. 

 

I will not go over the Parise thing again.

 

But these are minor points.  Unlucky drafting is really the reason where the team is where it is now.  There could have been no Kovalchuk penalty, and whoever was drafted this year would not be helping the team out right now anyway, and you can't really count on any 10th pick over all to be someone that can significantly affect a team's fortunes.

 

So far as Lou going forward, I would only really be panicking if when making personnel and draft decisions, behind the scenes, he really is valuing things like "toughness", "grit" and "leadership" above more measurable and valuable player traits.  I sense that Harris would be freaked out if that was the message he was getting from Lou, so I doubt that's what's going on.

[SterioDesign]

The only things that I'll kind of agree with you is Lou not trading Clarkson at the 2013 deadline, and even then we don't know if Lou actually did talk with other teams, but the return was so low that he said might as well take a shot at the playoffs.  The other was making Salvador the captain, and not necessarily the three (not four year deal). 

 

The rumor about keeping the 29th pick was a calculated gamble that Vasilevski would be available, and all indications are that it would have paid off nicely as he was very, very good as a 19 and 20 year old in the KHL. 

 

I will not go over the Parise thing again.

 

But these are minor points.  Unlucky drafting is really the reason where the team is where it is now.  There could have been no Kovalchuk penalty, and whoever was drafted this year would not be helping the team out right now anyway, and you can't really count on any 10th pick over all to be someone that can significantly affect a team's fortunes.

 

So far as Lou going forward, I would only really be panicking if when making personnel and draft decisions, behind the scenes, he really is valuing things like "toughness", "grit" and "leadership" above more measurable and valuable player traits.  I sense that Harris would be freaked out if that was the message he was getting from Lou, so I doubt that's what's going on.

 

Thats fair (and id say a polite way to respond)

 

What i am worrying is that we have LOTS of holes on the team already... and with the guys who won't be here soon... there will be a HUGE hole to cover... our core of young forwards is CLEARLY not good enough and we don't have much in our prospect pool to be excited about.

 

Good drafting is primordial to our future now or else we'll have to rely on free agency for quiiiiite awhile

 

So i can't even foresee a solution to this really

[AEWHistory]

I wholeheartedly agree about LL. I have felt he lost his touch years ago and have said as much. The 2012 Cup appearance made me feel as though I was perhaps mistaken, but I couldn't shake the feeling that we were a bit fortunate and that it would turn out to be a fluke. It turns out I was right, but I honestly wasn't sure at the time. What I do feel more confident about is Lou. He brought us greatness and for that I am extremely grateful. However, this team has spent a decade clearly on the decline and it is hard not to see LL's fingerprints on a large chunk of the problems. Here's the problem for Lou as I see it: You can blame bad luck on Stevens's concussions and Kovy's bad back, you can argue that we were betrayed by Nieds, Rafalski, and Parise, you can argue that Vanderbeek screwed up the Devs finances and tied LLs hands, and so on.... but none of this explains the dearth of draft picks and the utter failure of those picks we have had. we were once the envy of the NHL in identifying talent. Now we have a farm system routinely ranked near the bottom in the level of talent stocked. The cupboard has run dry and that MUST be blamed on Lou. Then there are the inane FA signings. Not one or two screwy signings, but a slew of them, and the constant Ex-Devs reunion show we've been running for years.

I feel like we are some middle aged person that was really popular in HS and now we are trying to recapture our glory days by putting on the old HS clothes and hanging out with the old HS crowd. The problem is that they are ALL middle aged schlumps now.... and so is our team.

Hasan had a well thought out post on whether to Retool vs Rebuild Friday. He covered everything including whether it makes sense to keep the current Devil roster together. Personally, I think Lou has lost his mind. He thinks this roster is good enough but for what. Can a roster that relies heavily on vets and a some kids make the playoffs? It depends on Schneider and the health/production of Cammalleri, Henrique and Jagr. They need more from Elias and better consistency from Zajac.

I don't get the ice-times for Gionta, Zubrus and the force feeding of Tootoo which is similar to Vigneault's fetish with Tanner Glass. These are role players. It's too bad about Clowe. He's basically done and should retire. He's a good player. Always been a fan of him but see it ending similar to Adam Deadmarsh. Another one of my faves.

The only positive development is Severson, who's a stud. At the very least, they have a top pair defenseman who should be an All-Star. I don't see why the organization doesn't give Boucher a chance. Ditto Matteau. What is the plan? DeBoer isn't the right coach. He overplays Salvador and Zidlicky together. They are a disaster. You can't pair your 2 worst defenders. At least balance it out. Do they really miss Merrill that much? What's the plan with Larsson? You either play or trade him. He got 12 minutes.

Final thing. You can't start Schneider every game. He's never even started 50. They should just give Kinkaid a game. Maybe tonight?

Edited November 14, 2014 by AEWHistory

[Z-Man]

I still hate Cammalleri as a person, i never bashed his play or anything i always simply said i hated the guy.

 

This is clearly one of the strangest comments ever.  What did he ever do to you?  Are you just anti-Semitic?