The Devils are bad and it's time to tank

[Derlique]

Still lots of skill in the top 10 like Strome, Zacha, Barzal, Marner, Konecny, etc.

[CRASHER]

I wonder if the Devils could convince Bruce Driver to come in as an assistant coach. I think he'd do well helping out the young defensemen in ways that Scott Stevens wasn't quite able to.

 

 

I have a lot of ice hockey playing friends who have attended clinics and events that Driver runs.....very few of them have nice things to say about him by the time the events are over, given that might translate different to pro players....but I have my doubts

[Pepperkorn]

what do they say though?  You cant guess what he'd coach like unless you have details on how he treats clinic participants.

[CRASHER]

what do they say though?  You cant guess what he'd coach like unless you have details on how he treats clinic participants.

 

Usually the word douchebag gets thrown around

it's not the quality of the clinics or teaching....more the quality of his personality....this team has more than enough of the abrasive coaching personnas in the fold as is

[Pepperkorn]

hmm.  Well I'm not a fan anyhow.

[eaglejelly]

So basically this tread is saying, because the team is playing bad, the team should play bad forward going

[Daniel]

So basically this tread is saying, because the team is playing bad, the team should play bad forward going

 

This thread is saying this team IS bad, that the last three weeks are not some anomaly, and that we ought to go all out to be in as good a position as possible to draft someone who has the potential to be a generational talent.  That means trading Jagr and Zidlicky sooner rather than later. 

[Chuck the Duck]

At this point, there is little hurry to trade away players such as Jagr or Zidlicky.  If this team is out of the race for a playoff spot come the deadline, then those guys can likely be unloaded for draft picks.  In fact, if they continue down this path heading to the deadline, Lou better make some trades to compile pick/prospects while looking to the future.  I just can't see Lou blowing up the team 1/4 of the way through a season, so I don't think we will see anything major until March.

[SterioDesign]

At this point, there is little hurry to trade away players such as Jagr or Zidlicky.  If this team is out of the race for a playoff spot come the deadline, then those guys can likely be unloaded for draft picks.  In fact, if they continue down this path heading to the deadline, Lou better make some trades to compile pick/prospects while looking to the future.  I just can't see Lou blowing up the team 1/4 of the way through a season, so I don't think we will see anything major until March.

 

If Lou trades anyone by trade deadline im actually gonna give him credits, especially if were close to the playoffs or in playoffs position. It has to be done no matter what

[Triumph]

This thread is saying this team IS bad, that the last three weeks are not some anomaly, and that we ought to go all out to be in as good a position as possible to draft someone who has the potential to be a generational talent.  That means trading Jagr and Zidlicky sooner rather than later. 

 

Right now more than half the league lacks the cap room to add either Jagr or Zidlicky.  Selling now would be the height of dumb.

[Daniel]

Right now more than half the league lacks the cap room to add either Jagr or Zidlicky.  Selling now would be the height of dumb.

 

I did not mean right now.  In an earlier post, I said you start making calls after the next fifteen or so games, which I predict will be a disaster. 

 

EDIT:  And, we can agree to retain as much salary as possible, which will also make a trade partner that thinks they have a legitimate cup run in them more amenable to giving up first round pick for Jagr.   One year of cap space does not matter for a team that is a seller, and I don't think ownership cares too much about the pure salary.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Daniel

[EdgeControl]

I did not mean right now.  In an earlier post, I said you start making calls after the next fifteen or so games, which I predict will be a disaster. 

 

EDIT:  And, we can agree to retain as much salary as possible, which will also make a trade partner that thinks they have a legitimate cup run in them more amenable to giving up first round pick for Jagr.   One year of cap space does not matter for a team that is a seller, and I don't think ownership cares too much about the pure salary.

This is exactly what would need to be done to try and grab as high a draft pick as possible...but are there any league rules for percentage of salary retention? Hell, I'd go 80% for all our next year FAs lol

[Daniel]

This is exactly what would need to be done to try and grab as high a draft pick as possible...but are there any league rules for percentage of salary retention? Hell, I'd go 80% for all our next year FAs lol

 

I think you can go up to one half.

[CarpathianForest]

Harris is also the principal owner of the Sixers and they're doing a bang up job this season! I wouldn't put it past him to suggest icing a poor lineup.

[Palumbo420]

Dear Daniel (wth)

 

Dude (Daniel) you are dead wrong my man.......i definitely have to ask you a bunch of questions to understand your logic!!!

 

1. First off are you a Devils fan?

 

2. Saying we aren't a playoff time and we are a long shot is complete BS!!!!

 

3. I know last year we missed the playoff by 4 points or something......I know i know we had a terrible start last year but the last month or so of that year we we're looking awesome. Theres alot to this number, ill try and make sense. Definitely a big part of us missing last year was the damn overtime and shootouts losses. Devils usually been good over the years in OT. (Real quick also if my stats are off alil don't rip me I'm just going off memory and don't wanna look all this up haha), so anyways....We we're what 0-15 or 0-18 in shootouts and our OT wasn't much better i think we won 2 or 3 and lost the rest. All those damn OT extra points we lost on really was our demise last year just missing the 8th seed. Soooo now, our PP struggled alot last year but our PK was number one most of the year, dont know if we finished with it but we we're in the top 3 for sure. Also in the top for Goals Allowed. And like i said in the beginning we had a horribleeeeeeeeee start and first quarter. And after the All-Star break i think, we caught fire and the last month or so we came on strong..............and thats always good, to go into the playoffs when we are hott and the players contributing more points. I think we we're definitely probably the best team to not make the playoffs. SOOOO NOWWW!!!!!!

 

4. why i wrote most of this out is because i think we should of been in the playoffs last year we dominated pretty much most games last year but of course didn't get the win so it doesn't matter i know that happens...we just had no scoring. But now this year i think we made some nice pickups veterans wise and rookies/2,3 year players. We already are scoring alot more then we usually do, the first ten games this year will show you that.  SO what im saying with all this is i think we made some good moves and we have to be alot better then last year, we got roster depth, our PP is doing awesome, we struggled alot last year with that.....our PK is awesome again and will stay that way.. Our pickups are scoring when they aren't hurt. And the young guys and 3 and 4th lines contributing. So basically what all this crap i wrote I'm asking you what you think I said about the Devils last year (especially end of year) and compare that to this year, and keep in mind the pickups and the scoring so far for us. If you said we should of been in last year....which im thinking you haven't the way you talk about the Devils. But i think we improved alottttttttttt from last year.......and we should of made it last year we have to have a really good chance for a playoff spot. Also another thing that i did touch on especially last year and i saw at least 3 to 5 games this year already. Games where we totally dominate TOP, shots, hits, faceoff wins, scoring chances  and we lost not saying that just because the stats look in our favor and we outshoot them 45 to 23 we should win, but we should win 90 percent of them. and how many games we blew a one goal lead in the 3rd and otop of that not even making it to overtime n let them steal a win when we had the game won.......we had a bunch of those last year and at least 3 this year i saw a one goal lead in the 3rd and come away with no points not even the 1 pt OT loss. those losses hurt us. If we stop can stop that will be looking very nice this year i believe. Also touching back on another note.......i rather have a semi slow start and finish strong, because you come into the playoffs on a roll, it tends to rollover into the playoffs and the team more confident playing great hokey......as to say winning the first 40 games and then go on a slump. I know thats obviously unrealistic just saying a strong start and then we look like sh!t the last month and say we still get a good seed.....we'd prolly lose the first round.....come into the last month or two playing awesome hockey, we will good in the playoffs

 

Side note: we did have a rough schedule to start this year and got a long road trip out the way that was tough and the schedule is looking better in the coming months.

 

Another thing just throwing it in there last year we dominated all our rival teams and  most of the division we could beat the rangers basically ever time (most games were close but we pulled them out), Flyers we won 4 of the games and an OT loss i believe and Pitt I think we won the series, not gonna mention the other teams right now, one ill throw in is the Islanders even the past few years give us trouble, and now looking really solid.....and the Devils i think tend to play better against the top teams n lose games to the ones we shouldn't. 

 

 

So what do you think.....I hope you do read this....and sorry if its all over the place i think i did alright for a quick rant. Pleas lemme know your thoughts. 

 

MY FINAL THOUGHT FOR YOU!!!!!!! 

Back to my first question? Are you a Devils fan?

I really hope you aren't a Devils fan, because what I read from your posts doesn't sound like a true Devil fan to me.......We are the damn Devils brooooo we've been one of the most winningest teams in the past 20 to 25 years. I know we had a few in the past few years not making the playoffs we came up short by 2 games two of those times I believe.....but anyways I never heard a Devil fan talk like you....have faith my son...the Devils will get there S**t together soon and keep the rolling believe me. 

And I like our chances this year, i think we improved in alot of ways and were actually scoring a decent amount of goals in most games. We are basically always in contention and I've been watching the Devils since about 93'.  I never give up on our boys, we can usually pull it out or at least make a good run at it. I seen alot of amazing things over the past 20 years with the Devils. We always had the odds against us but we came thru and not just one time.....we usually have some good runs in the playoffs.

 

 

(Just random) Friggen love Jagr  though, 42 year old led our team in points last year haha and he'll probably do it again.

 

 

LETTTTTTT'SSSSSSSSSS  GOOOOOOOOOOO DEVILSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Never give upon the Devils my friend.

 

Once again sorry if my message is alittle bit all over the place and whatever. I wrote this quick and its super late right now.

 

I hope theres people on this board that think im right here! Let me know if so!

[SterioDesign]

Well that might be the longest first post on the board in history haha

 

Im not Daniel but i'll say this. It's not cause a fan is down on his team that he's not a real fan. I guess this image can quite easily describe the 3 kind of fans... i think as much as possible you want to be the realistic cause anyone overly optimistic is annoying and anyone overly pessimist is also annoying lol

 

that being said i really really don't think it's unfair to call our team a bad team. Bad teams find ways to lose while good teams find ways to win. It's undeniable that our team has found ways to lose on a regular basis. Name it, we did it and it was not out of luck it was a recurring thing... blowing leads, not scoring at all, our goalies would play unreal just to lose 1-0, our players would score 5 goals and our goalies would give up 6, couldnt score in shootout, getting scored on late in periods, getting bad penalties... etc etc Then we are obviously slow and the oldest team in the league, thats a fact. We're a decent team built with average players that will be inconsistant and that's what we're seeing really.

 

sometimes you have to call a cat a cat... and thats what fans pointing out our very bad and average team is doing. 

 

And last thing, we shouldnt try to be a team just good enough to make the playoffs... you have to build a team that can win it all. And thats not gonna happen continuing to do things the way we do

Edited November 21, 2014 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

I also like first posts that contain the questioning of other long-time fan's "fanhood"

[Devilsfan118]

Don't want to pick on a new guy (welcome to the boards, by the way!), but wanting the Devils to acknowledge they're awful and act appropriately doesn't make anyone more or less a fan.

 

I want Lou to sell off the veterans like it's Black Friday.  SELL SELL SELL.  Hoard those draft picks, let the team suck for this year and next if necessary.

 

This team is currently composed of aging veterans collecting their final paychecks. It's a sad state of affairs.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Devilsfan118

[MadDog2020]

Dear Daniel (wth)

Dude (Daniel) you are dead wrong my man.......i definitely have to ask you a bunch of questions to understand your logic!!!

1. First off are you a Devils fan?

2. Saying we aren't a playoff time and we are a long shot is complete BS!!!!

3. I know last year we missed the playoff by 4 points or something......I know i know we had a terrible start last year but the last month or so of that year we we're looking awesome. Theres alot to this number, ill try and make sense. Definitely a big part of us missing last year was the damn overtime and shootouts losses. Devils usually been good over the years in OT. (Real quick also if my stats are off alil don't rip me I'm just going off memory and don't wanna look all this up haha), so anyways....We we're what 0-15 or 0-18 in shootouts and our OT wasn't much better i think we won 2 or 3 and lost the rest. All those damn OT extra points we lost on really was our demise last year just missing the 8th seed. Soooo now, our PP struggled alot last year but our PK was number one most of the year, dont know if we finished with it but we we're in the top 3 for sure. Also in the top for Goals Allowed. And like i said in the beginning we had a horribleeeeeeeeee start and first quarter. And after the All-Star break i think, we caught fire and the last month or so we came on strong..............and thats always good, to go into the playoffs when we are hott and the players contributing more points. I think we we're definitely probably the best team to not make the playoffs. SOOOO NOWWW!!!!!!

4. why i wrote most of this out is because i think we should of been in the playoffs last year we dominated pretty much most games last year but of course didn't get the win so it doesn't matter i know that happens...we just had no scoring. But now this year i think we made some nice pickups veterans wise and rookies/2,3 year players. We already are scoring alot more then we usually do, the first ten games this year will show you that. SO what im saying with all this is i think we made some good moves and we have to be alot better then last year, we got roster depth, our PP is doing awesome, we struggled alot last year with that.....our PK is awesome again and will stay that way.. Our pickups are scoring when they aren't hurt. And the young guys and 3 and 4th lines contributing. So basically what all this crap i wrote I'm asking you what you think I said about the Devils last year (especially end of year) and compare that to this year, and keep in mind the pickups and the scoring so far for us. If you said we should of been in last year....which im thinking you haven't the way you talk about the Devils. But i think we improved alottttttttttt from last year.......and we should of made it last year we have to have a really good chance for a playoff spot. Also another thing that i did touch on especially last year and i saw at least 3 to 5 games this year already. Games where we totally dominate TOP, shots, hits, faceoff wins, scoring chances and we lost not saying that just because the stats look in our favor and we outshoot them 45 to 23 we should win, but we should win 90 percent of them. and how many games we blew a one goal lead in the 3rd and otop of that not even making it to overtime n let them steal a win when we had the game won.......we had a bunch of those last year and at least 3 this year i saw a one goal lead in the 3rd and come away with no points not even the 1 pt OT loss. those losses hurt us. If we stop can stop that will be looking very nice this year i believe. Also touching back on another note.......i rather have a semi slow start and finish strong, because you come into the playoffs on a roll, it tends to rollover into the playoffs and the team more confident playing great hokey......as to say winning the first 40 games and then go on a slump. I know thats obviously unrealistic just saying a strong start and then we look like sh!t the last month and say we still get a good seed.....we'd prolly lose the first round.....come into the last month or two playing awesome hockey, we will good in the playoffs

Side note: we did have a rough schedule to start this year and got a long road trip out the way that was tough and the schedule is looking better in the coming months.

Another thing just throwing it in there last year we dominated all our rival teams and most of the division we could beat the rangers basically ever time (most games were close but we pulled them out), Flyers we won 4 of the games and an OT loss i believe and Pitt I think we won the series, not gonna mention the other teams right now, one ill throw in is the Islanders even the past few years give us trouble, and now looking really solid.....and the Devils i think tend to play better against the top teams n lose games to the ones we shouldn't.

So what do you think.....I hope you do read this....and sorry if its all over the place i think i did alright for a quick rant. Pleas lemme know your thoughts.

MY FINAL THOUGHT FOR YOU!!!!!!!

Back to my first question? Are you a Devils fan?

I really hope you aren't a Devils fan, because what I read from your posts doesn't sound like a true Devil fan to me.......We are the damn Devils brooooo we've been one of the most winningest teams in the past 20 to 25 years. I know we had a few in the past few years not making the playoffs we came up short by 2 games two of those times I believe.....but anyways I never heard a Devil fan talk like you....have faith my son...the Devils will get there S**t together soon and keep the rolling believe me.

And I like our chances this year, i think we improved in alot of ways and were actually scoring a decent amount of goals in most games. We are basically always in contention and I've been watching the Devils since about 93'. I never give up on our boys, we can usually pull it out or at least make a good run at it. I seen alot of amazing things over the past 20 years with the Devils. We always had the odds against us but we came thru and not just one time.....we usually have some good runs in the playoffs.

(Just random) Friggen love Jagr though, 42 year old led our team in points last year haha and he'll probably do it again.

LETTTTTTT'SSSSSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOOOO DEVILSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

Never give upon the Devils my friend.

Once again sorry if my message is alittle bit all over the place and whatever. I wrote this quick and its super late right now.

I hope theres people on this board that think im right here! Let me know if so!

[Pepperkorn]

[BostonNala370]

That's great

[Marv4Life]

Just because one doesn't drink kool aid and paint a pic of roses and sunshine over cow dung doesn't mean they aren't a real fan.

This team as constructed sucks. Everyone involved with creating this country club craphole sucks. Their outdated methods suck. Time for a change.

[Lateralous]

The team as currently constructed, does kind of suck but you don't decide to tank after you are already half way through a rebuild. We couldn't be in better position for the future on defense and we just locked up our goalie of the future for the next 8 years. Basically, we need to accumulate some decent assets so that we can acquire good forwards as they become available, Dallas Stars style. Getting lucky on a forward or two in the draft wouldn't hurt either. We need to add a few top 6 skilled forwards but there's absolutely no reason to tear it all down and start over.

I would agree with those saying that if we are still a few points out at the trade deadline, you pawn of Jagr, Zidlicky, Rydar and Havlat for whatever 2nd or 3rd round picks you can get. I doubt Brunner has any value but he could be shipped as well. No reason to part with Zajac or Cammallerri since they have a lot of years left and I believe Elias still has a lot of value to the team in terms of being a leader and role model for the young forwards.

[themightyall]

I really only lurk on this site but I thought I'd start posting a little too.

 

It astounds me how many people are so quick to tank.  I understand the second level thought of tanking because people think that means good years are ahead but I don't want to go to a game and watch my team field an AHL team.  It was embarrassing having a Mickey Mouse organization before Lou came and I don't want to go back to it.  Ever.  No one thought 2012 was going to be anything but things happen in the playoffs but you have to get there for the chance.

 

When Harris bought the team everyone chirped about how they don't want to end up like the 6ers and now everyone is welcoming it.  I live in Philly.  The 6ers suck and there is no end in sight.  Wells Fargo is half full and that is in a major market, a market that loves basketball too.  If the Devils tank, it'll be years to get good again and I don't think they can live through that being a small market team.

 

I'm not calling anyone not a fan.  However people that want this team to tank think about the Pens and the Hawks, but they don't think about the Oilers and the Panthers.

[Devilsfan118]

The team as currently constructed, does kind of suck but you don't decide to tank after you are already half way through a rebuild. We couldn't be in better position for the future on defense and we just locked up our goalie of the future for the next 8 years. Basically, we need to accumulate some decent assets so that we can acquire good forwards as they become available, Dallas Stars style. Getting lucky on a forward or two in the draft wouldn't hurt either. We need to add a few top 6 skilled forwards but there's absolutely no reason to tear it all down and start over.

I would agree with those saying that if we are still a few points out at the trade deadline, you pawn of Jagr, Zidlicky, Rydar and Havlat for whatever 2nd or 3rd round picks you can get. I doubt Brunner has any value but he could be shipped as well. No reason to part with Zajac or Cammallerri since they have a lot of years left and I believe Elias still has a lot of value to the team in terms of being a leader and role model for the young forwards.

 

"Half way through a rebuild" - in what sense have we even started a rebuild?  We've started to incorporate some young players on defense.  That's literally all we've done.

 

The cupboard is empty on forward prospects.  There's literally not a single guaranteed top-6 player in our system right now (say what you will about Boucher, but he hasn't shown much at the NHL level yet).  To the bolded - how would you suggest we go about doing that if not through the draft (via a full on rebuild)?