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The Devils are bad and it's time to tank


Daniel

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San Jose with Clowe is one.

 

And well at the end of the day we can argue all we want. The one thing i have that you guys don't is the benefit of the doubt. With "your way" (aka backing wtv Lou does) We see the results right now and we see the sh!t situation were in, wtv he did, DID. NOT. PAN. OUT. Having extra assets right now would be amazing. Would it pay off 100% sure? of course not. But at least it's still putting chances on our side. Which is not what Lou did in the last few years. He gambled all in every time and lost every time.

 

They didn't sell Clowe and then just move on.  They picked up Raffi Torres, who is a player with a lot of Clowe's skills.  They made a decision to offload a player for 2 2nd round picks, which really isn't that much in the large scope of things.

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In what world is the Sharks trading a very badly underperforming Clowe who they weren't going to re-sign even remotely close to the Devils giving up Parise who they did want to re-sign?

You're also vastly over pricing what teams would give up for a Zach Parise rental. It would have been a late first round pick (which as you know doesn't yield the stars you want) and a roster player or prospect. If anything, it'd be some player you'd probably complain about because Lou gave up Parise for him.

 

Dude why do you keep refering to the trade deadline? i kept saying the one year should have never happened. That summer is when Lou should have make a hard decision. Figure right there if he was gonna be able to keep Zach long-term or not.

 

It's really not as if i'm suggesting something crazy here. Bunch of GMs are doing it. Pittsburgh gave an ultimatum to Letang 1 year before free agency. He was signing long term or they had to trade him not to lose assets from a key guy. They did the same thing with Staal, ultimatum... it was not gonna work, they got something for him. They got Suter + the 8th overall pick. They picked Derrick Pouliot with that pick and he could very well endup being a good NHL player.

 

Thaaaaats exactly what i was expecting. Do you think it was easy for him to trade Staal? Or have to trade Letang? of course not but thats a business and you try to protect your assets.

 

Without that mentality and point of view Pittsburgh could very well have ended up without Staal and Letang, being without 1 good prospects and still trying to fill the 3rd line center spot with plugs. Which is precisely what were doing now

Edited by SterioDesign
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Dude why do you keep refering to the trade deadline? i kept saying the one year should have never happened. That summer is when Lou should have make a hard decision. Figure right there if he was gonna be able to keep Zach long-term or not.

It's really not as if i'm suggesting something crazy here. Bunch of GMs are doing it. Pittsburgh gave an ultimatum to Letang 1 year before free agency. He was signing long term or they had to trade him not to lose assets from a key guy. They did the same thing with Staal, ultimatum... it was not gonna work, they got something for him. They got Suter + the 8th overall pick. They picked Derrick Pouliot with that pick and he could very well endup being a good NHL player.

Thaaaaats exactly what i was expecting. Do you think it was easy for him to trade Staal? Or have to trade Letang? of course not but thats a business and you try to protect your assets.

Without that mentality and point of view Pittsburgh could very well have ended up without Staal and Letang, being without 1 good prospects and still trying to fill the 3rd line center spot with plugs.

That's very easy to do when you have Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin ahead of someone in the depth chart.

If I had Cory Perry and Patrick Kane ahead of Parise, id pay hardball too.

And they discussed long term extensions with Zach in 2011, but they couldn't make a deal. Vanderbeek made kovalchuk the priority. Lou would prefer Zach over Kovy any day.

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That's very easy to do when you have Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin ahead of someone in the depth chart.

If I had Cory Perry and Patrick Kane ahead of Parise, id pay hardball too.

And they discussed long term extensions with Zach in 2011, but they couldn't make a deal. Vanderbeek made kovalchuk the priority. Lou would prefer Zach over Kovy any day.

 

You play hardball so you can't lose everything. It's protecthing you. You're not agains the wall with no power like the situation Lou was with Zach. The process the Pens used is perfect. It's business. I can be stubborn but there's no way youre telling me that what the Pens did with Staal and Letang was the best thing a team can possibly do.

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You play hardball so you can't lose everything. It's protecthing you. You're not agains the wall with no power like the situation Lou was with Zach. The process the Pens used is perfect. It's business.

Business by a team with 2 generational talents who can afford that. The Devils needed to try to keep Zach. He was a big piece, just not 98 million big

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Speaking of St. Louis, he brought back 2 1st rd picks+ Callahan on an expiring contract though one of the 1st rounders was conditional on the rags getting to the ecf.

Do you think Elias could bring back a similar return? I'd honestly think about it if it nets us another 1st in this draft+ a solid roster player. Two 1st rd picks in this draft could be huge for us.

There is zero chance Elias goes anywhere. Same with Jagr, unless he picks the destination.

The team needed to make the playoffs, they needed cash in the worst way. I don't get what you guys don't get...the team was in financial ruins. All the jackasses that boo Bettman should be kissing his ass for floating the team during that time.

Edited by hystyk28
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In what world is the Sharks trading a very badly underperforming Clowe who they weren't going to re-sign even remotely close to the Devils giving up Parise who they did want to re-sign?

You're also vastly over pricing what teams would give up for a Zach Parise rental. It would have been a late first round pick (which as you know doesn't yield the stars you want) and a roster player or prospect. If anything, it'd be some player you'd probably complain about because Lou gave up Parise for him.

 

It would have been a LOT more comparable to us trading Fayne last year.  Which we absolutely should have done.  Not that we would have gotten as much for him as the Sharks did for Clowe but really it made no sense keeping him since we made no real attempt to re-sign him and had Larsson rotting in the AHL last year.  That's the one I really can't defend Lou on.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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Cammy, Hitler, Bin Laden.

lol

How can you see this? Didnt you put me on your ignore list?

It would have been a LOT more comparable to us trading Fayne last year.  Which we absolutely should have done.  Not that we would have gotten as much for him as the Sharks did for Clowe but really it made no sense keeping him since we made no real attempt to re-sign him and had Larsson rotting in the AHL last year.  That's the one I really can't defend Lou on.

Same with clarkson.

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how many games have we had camm, havlet and henrique in the lineup?  Our top end forward talent isn't very deep but its good enough to make the playoffs.  Solid 2 lines with decent depth talent for the 3rd and 4th depending on injury or other team matchups.  I think way too many people flip out with lineup choices. We will need brunner and jaja to stay fresh.  

 

our goal is to keep it healthy enough during the season to make the playoffs and have it healthy during the playoffs.  I've thought we've only had a few truly bad games.  The blowouts didn't seem lopsided till late.  The Jets game the other day was a low point, and really left the bad taste. (and the avs game felt like a lost 2 points,) but at the almost quarter pole we've had a road heavy schedule and right in the thick of things.  Exactly how many powerhouse teams do we have in the division.  Pit ok, but while I d think the Isels look good.  You never know over there.  They just aren't used to winning so lets see how they develop.  Rags, Caps and Flyers aren't in a much better shape than us are they?

 

The young D have to be more consistent..  As long as Harold doesn't see the ice, you can rotate larsson and gelly to keep everyone fresh, and reward good play and motivate. Even Severson.  

 

PK(not jane) goes to sh!t when Sal comes back and management will have to make that choice. Key is to play well while he is out.  And what happened to thtk it's fatigue,e aggressive PK?  Was it just Zach and Henrique with all the breakaways?  Was the if you see someone bobble the puck you get on them immediately an oats thing?  Also, Stop taking so many stupid penalties.  

 

The PP has me confused I will admit.  They just don't seem to be able to enter the zone consistently.  Seems like lots of short passes side to side or even backwards(and did I see a flying V a few game ago?).  I'm not saying do it all the time but shouldn't we dump every now and then just to keep the D off balance?  

 

Cory needs time to adjust to being the man.  He's looked great most of the time but he has cost the team a few points with extremely soft goals.  Don't think it's fatigue from the workload, just a different mentality.  Still think the adjustment to a non puck handling goalie needs time as well.  No coincidence all the young D with the new goalie. 

 

i'm still optimistic about the season(not saying slam dunk in playoffs, but I do see them making it). Lots of new additions to this team.  Lets see how it gels.  

 

And you don't be a seller at the deadline unless you are sure you are going to miss the playoffs. If management doesn't think a team is good enough to try and improve.  Why the hell would any fan show up to the game and just doesn't set a good mindset for the franchise.  

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hahaha! 

 

Yeah -- I hope they can pull things together.  Sometimes I get into hysterics just because of fear.  I do see improvements -- I just want assurances they will reach fruition in timely fashion and the team won't backslide.  and of course I never condone tanking.  The risk is far greater than any stupid draft reward that might come to pass. 

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hahaha! 

 

Yeah -- I hope they can pull things together.  Sometimes I get into hysterics just because of fear.  I do see improvements -- I just want assurances they will reach fruition in timely fashion and the team won't backslide.  and of course I never condone tanking.  The risk is far greater than any stupid draft reward that might come to pass.

If there was ever a season to tank to potentially get a first, this would be the one.

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I do want Lou to sell after tonight's disappointment.  But I doubt he will.

 

he's not going to sell when we're tied in points with Washington for 3rd in the Metro. But I hope this loss causes Lou to toss some furniture. Too damn patient with this team and Dumboer

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he's not going to sell when we're tied in points with Washington for 3rd in the Metro. But I hope this loss causes Lou to toss some furniture. Too damn patient with this team and Dumboer

 

This team still needs a major shakeup regardless.  This team has several good pieces, and has a strong system.  But something is holding this team back.

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.. I just want a young forward that is exciting to watch. I just want one dynamic forward on this roster.

Is that so much to ask, hockey Gods?

This team is bad, and they should feel bad.

 

Those kinds of players don't grow on trees.  What's funny is that we want a dynamic player like you said, but most are unwilling to give up the asset to get him.

 

I also love how this is a bad team, yet we're tied for a playoff position.

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Those kinds of players don't grow on trees.  What's funny is that we want a dynamic player like you said, but most are unwilling to give up the asset to get him.

 

I also love how this is a bad team, yet we're tied for a playoff position.

 

Perhaps some people here aren't willing to do what's necessary to acquire such talent..

 

But I've been pro-tank for the past two years.  I want this team gutted of veterans on on their last contract year.  And if value can be found for players with years left (read: Clowe) then I'm all for trimming the fat.

 

I want McDavid.  And, frankly, I'm surprised the owners haven't stepped in yet.  We all see what they've done with the Sixers.

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Perhaps some people here aren't willing to do what's necessary to acquire such talent..

 

But I've been pro-tank for the past two years.  I want this team gutted of veterans on on their last contract year.  And if value can be found for players with years left (read: Clowe) then I'm all for trimming the fat.

 

I want McDavid.  And, frankly, I'm surprised the owners haven't stepped in yet.  We all see what they've done with the Sixers.

 

You aren't going to get McDavid, not with Schneider in net.  The Devils are 7 points up on the 3 bottom place teams and we're a quarter way through the season.  And Buffalo is really, really bad.  The only way that tanking makes sense is if you think you can have a shot at 1 or 2 - so basically for the bottom 3 teams in the league, sure, go ahead.  The Devils aren't one of those teams, and they probably aren't one of those teams if they traded Jagr and Zidlicky.

 

The owners know that in basketball you cannot win without high draft picks on your team.  That's just not true in hockey.

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Perhaps some people here aren't willing to do what's necessary to acquire such talent..

 

But I've been pro-tank for the past two years.  I want this team gutted of veterans on on their last contract year.  And if value can be found for players with years left (read: Clowe) then I'm all for trimming the fat.

 

I want McDavid.  And, frankly, I'm surprised the owners haven't stepped in yet.  We all see what they've done with the Sixers.

 

You may be pro tank, but this fanbase wouldn't be able to handle it.  Gutting the team isn't feasible.  We can possibly lend off a couple of our vets, but I wouldn't call that blowing it up either.

 

The "problem" here is that we have too good of a foundation on defense and in goal.  And that's not a good thing if you want a tank team.  Are you willing to unload those guys to get the player(s) YOU'RE looking for?

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Im not that familiar with the NHL draft, do teams trade up and down in the first rounds as frequently as NFL teams do?

 

No.  Because 2nd round picks are worth way less in the NHL than the NFL, it's harder to make deals to move up and down.  You'll often see movement past pick 10, but it's unusual to have trades in the top 10.  You also won't often see teams dealing next year's 1st round pick for something.

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For anyone suggesting a full tank:

1. What do you think our roster needs to look like by Christmas to get us in a position to be worse than Edmonton, Buffalo and Florida? Are any of Greene, Schneider and henrique retained in this hypothetical? Do they even want to stay in the primes of their career if we decide to go into a rebuild?

2. If the devils decide to do a fire sale early enough in the season to get in position to tank, what teams do you think would both be willing to pay full price for our assets and have the cap room to fit them in this early in the season? Are you willing to get $.70 on the dollar in trades in early December just to get them done and in position to tank?

3. Even if the Devils somehow got McDavid, given that the roster would need to be stripped to get him, do you think the Devils are closer to competing than if they just keep Schneider, Greene and henrique with the young defensive core and try to build from there? In addition, what assets do you propose to use to find Schneiders replacement?

4. If the Devils tank but miss out on McDavid and Eichel, what is plan B?

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