A Plan To Try To Right The Ship (For Next Year)

[SterioDesign]

I don't think Lou gets fired and even if he does, it doesn't change the scouting system for next year's draft.  Even so - there just aren't a ton of things that can be traded, and that makes it difficult to upgrade things right now.  I really wish there were another Loktionov for trade, that's the kind of thing this team needs.  We've seen enough of Josefson as the 3rd line center to see that he cannot play that position long-term.

 

Thats true but i dont see any step forwards anymore from Lou... so eventhough it might not make an immediate impact next season... keeping him is only pushing back the real re-built

[themightyall]

I won't even argue that things should change with respect to drafting and prospect development.  But to help this team next year, everyone sees how we need to upgrade our forwards, specifically C and RW.  I feel like a Lokt kind of trade is just continuing our problem:  we don't have TOP end talent.  If the Lokt trade worked, the best he would've been was our second line center.  I feel like we have enough middle 6 forwards on this team.  I'd like to see a more creative deal.  I've brought it up before, but Alex Semin or someone like him may be the answer.

 

- He had a wrist injury at the beginning of the season and it could be his lower shot total

- He's been healthy scratched on a team that can't afford to pay someone 7 mil to sit in a press box and just doesn't like playing for a bad team

- He's only 30 and signed for a few more years

- If the Canes wanted to just get him off the books, I can see sending Clowe (insurance can pay for his cap hit for half the season) and some amount else, be it what you wish.

 

Semin is a talented RW and we could be getting good value.  Of course if he is going to stay with his production, then buy him out after next year.

[Daniel]

I don't think Lou gets fired and even if he does, it doesn't change the scouting system for next year's draft.  Even so - there just aren't a ton of things that can be traded, and that makes it difficult to upgrade things right now.  I really wish there were another Loktionov for trade, that's the kind of thing this team needs.  We've seen enough of Josefson as the 3rd line center to see that he cannot play that position long-term.

 

And even if the scouting staff changed overnight, it's pretty much a matter of luck and how deep the bottom will get that will determine whether more quality young talent comes in.  The most that might change without him is less of an emphasis on drafting the best player available and shifting more towards need.  But even Lou has done that in recent years, with the philosophy that unless there's a defensive prospect that's too good to pass up at a particular time that they will take the best forward they feel is available.

 

ADDENDUM:  The other thing that might change about the draft strategy with a new front office would be more of an emphasis on skill rather than size.  It was infuriating to me that the Devils passed up on a point producing machine in Brayden Point to take Connor Chatham, someone who, if everything breaks right (which it virtually never does) might be as good as Ryane Clowe at his peak.  I get it that a lot of teams passed up on someone like Point because he's tiny.  But a team that has no skilled forwards in the system should take a chance on a player like that, especially in the third round.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Daniel

[thecoffeecake]

I'm not for tanking (as in losing on purpose) but I absolutely don't get the fans who are still in full force WE HAVE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS AT ANY COST mentality. "We're only 4 pts out of a playoffs spot!"

Whats the ultimate goal in the NHL? Win the cup. Are we winning the cup with this team? There's not a single chance. Not on paper and not in real life. Just not happening. The "once you're in, anything can happen" mentality is an incredible stretch of imagination looking at this team at the moment.

I'm currently taking sessions with a business/money coach cause i'm running 2 side businesses and will soon have a bigger role in the firm im working at. And one thing that i've learned and that most people are sabotaging themselves not taking the right steps to achieve their goals. I see this all over the place with Lou.

So again, our goal is to win the cup. But it's not achievable so now the mission #1 becomes "build a team to make it happen"... Whats missing here? Players is one thing. And coaching / management is debatable.

Some of our players will HAVE to come from our drafting. So again, not suggesting to lose on purpose. But here's the main question. What's the point of doing everything we can to make the playoffs if we know we can't win it. I know the "right" answer as a fan is that you always want to win and bla bla bla. I know it's ridiculous to say obviously. But if you look at it with a business view it doesnt make sense. Cause you're putting things in motions and taking steps away from what your mission is "Build a team to win the cup" by going for a worst drafting position. Its incredibly hard to do cause it's like a reflex and you have to go against what you want... to eventually get what you want.

Honour and loyalty goes a LONG way in sports and Lou has been preaching it forever and that's why everyone wants to force things to try to win no matter how unlikely it is. Saddly the team is now at a point where the business side has to take over and i do not think Lou is the man to make that happen.

That coach must be great, they've got you regurgitating their self help bullsh!t.

I'm all for dumping the trash we've been picking up for the last few years. Brunner was a good start, Ryder would be even better. Get a couple of old ccm wood sticks for him, that'd be fine. Move ruuttu, move zidlicky, hopefully for the sake of his health Clowe retires. Maybe jagr will call it quits, do something with zubrus, just get rid of the old slow garbage on this team. Start new, draft high. Sign foligno or something, trade gelinas for a halfway decent young forward. Maybe Jo becomes something with added responsibilities, maybe sislo or Boucher figure something out, maybe matteau becomes a solid 3rd liner. Put that together with a couple decent draft picks, a more mature henrique, maybe a consist zajac, maybe a healthy cammalleri, and hopefully keeping the young d together with their game completing with age, a lot of maybes, but you probably have a winner come 2017 playoff time.

[DJ Eco]

I think offensive draft criticism is fair. But you have to give credit to the defensive drafting which balances it out. Kinkaid seems to be an NHL goaltender, which isn't to find either and he was a UFA. Andy Greene was a UFA , Clarkson too. So they have found some guys. Also it's not like the Devils went off the reservation with Tedenby or JJ - these guys were highly ranked about where they went in the draft IIRC...so it's hard to criticize so heavily on that. 

 

You're going to go ahead and criticize signings like Dagostini and Butler? For what? They cost nothing. Didn't hurt the team whatsoever. So what's your point here. Even in some of the UFAs he's signed, none of them have really handcuffed the Devils at all, even Clowe's deal...I mean we have no cap problems to speak of. 

 

I do trust Lou's eye in trades. I do. The Kovy deal was a great deal, the Scheneider deal I have no problem with. Even the Zidlicky deal was good, Sal for Janssen. How many deals has he made? Deals are becoming harder and harder to make...it takes two...so what do you want? 

 

Agreed on Greene, Clarkson, and others; that seems to have been Lou's strong suit in the past 10 years, whereas drafting has failed us. As for D'Agostini, Butler, the below-29 year old players, etc., I'm not criticizing Lou just to criticize. I'm pointing out that I really don't know how much I like Lou's vision of what a "prototypical New Jersey Devils player" is. I'm not sure I trust his taste in trades anymore. The Schneider trade was brilliant, but the Kovalchuk trade reeked of Vanderbeek forcing Lou's hand. As far as just OFFENSE is concerned, I really don't know if Lou knows HOW to recognize an effective forward as a trade target anymore.

 

 

you left henrique off this list who is a true 2nd liner. you left off halischuk who is an nhl'er (not  a gvery good one, but he is - in fact he's played more games than henrique has in the nhl). and of course boucher and matteau.

 

but i do get your point. they really haven't drafted much offense since zajac.

 

Fair enough, and you're right, Henrique in the third round (I think?) was a phenomenal pick, and several like it have been good or decent. Yes, those are the diamond-in-the-rough picks when they come in the later rounds like that. Many teams end up with a few of these as well (Montreal with Subban, Rangers with Lundqvist, for example), so I'd say we keep up in that department (higher picks that pan out pretty well) at a pretty average pace. I left off Boucher/Matteau because they're mostly unknowns at this point, we'll see.

 

My list of players were entirely from the first and second rounds, which is what's terrifying. We continually fall behind in our scouting of offense in the earlier rounds and I don't know why or how we do it so poorly.

 

My main point is, okay, so we get a nice early draft pick (or picks) in the first and second rounds. We know Lou might pull off the odd later round success story (Henrique), but do we trust his discretion and eye in the first or second round? I don’t. And I don’t like what his “vision” (if you want to call it that) of a 2014 New Jersey Devils forward is, based on his track record of late.

Edited December 12, 2014 by DJ Eco

[DJ Eco]

That coach must be great, they've got you regurgitating their self help bullsh!t.

I'm all for dumping the trash we've been picking up for the last few years. Brunner was a good start, Ryder would be even better. Get a couple of old ccm wood sticks for him, that'd be fine. Move ruuttu, move zidlicky, hopefully for the sake of his health Clowe retires. Maybe jagr will call it quits, do something with zubrus, just get rid of the old slow garbage on this team. Start new, draft high. Sign foligno or something, trade gelinas for a halfway decent young forward. Maybe Jo becomes something with added responsibilities, maybe sislo or Boucher figure something out, maybe matteau becomes a solid 3rd liner. Put that together with a couple decent draft picks, a more mature henrique, maybe a consist zajac, maybe a healthy cammalleri, and hopefully keeping the young d together with their game completing with age, a lot of maybes, but you probably have a winner come 2017 playoff time.

 

I agree with everything you said.

 

As for this season, we couldn't be doing too much worse. I'd rather lose 4-1 to the Flyers with half our young prospects making up the lineup and getting experienced, than the old bones. Change the guard, man, this team looked sad and pitiful last night.

[Daniel]

Agreed on Greene, Clarkson, and others; that seems to have been Lou's strong suit in the past 10 years, whereas drafting has failed us. As for D'Agostini, Butler, the below-29 year old players, etc., I'm not criticizing Lou just to criticize. I'm pointing out that I really don't know how much I like Lou's vision of what a "prototypical New Jersey Devils player" is. I'm not sure I trust his taste in trades anymore. The Schneider trade was brilliant, but the Kovalchuk trade reeked of Vanderbeek forcing Lou's hand. As far as just OFFENSE is concerned, I really don't know if Lou knows HOW to recognize an effective forward as a trade target anymore.

 

 

 

Fair enough, and you're right, Henrique in the third round (I think?) was a phenomenal pick, and several like it have been good or decent. Yes, those are the diamond-in-the-rough picks when they come in the later rounds like that. Many teams end up with a few of these as well (Montreal with Subban, Rangers with Lundqvist, for example), so I'd say we keep up in that department (higher picks that pan out pretty well) at a pretty average pace. I left off Boucher/Matteau because they're mostly unknowns at this point, we'll see.

 

My list of players were entirely from the first and second rounds, which is what's terrifying. We continually fall behind in our scouting of offense in the earlier rounds and I don't know why or how we do it so poorly.

 

My main point is, okay, so we get a nice early draft pick (or picks) in the first and second rounds. We know Lou might pull off the odd later round success story (Henrique), but do we trust his discretion and eye in the first or second round? I don’t. And I don’t like what his “vision” (if you want to call it that) of a 2014 New Jersey Devils forward is, based on his track record of late.

 

The vast majority of players in the past two or three years that the Devils have drafted have been forwards.  They have also had one top fifteen draft pick in the past 17 years, if you don't include the 9th pick that was traded for Schneider.  Besides the Red Wings, I can't think of a team that's currently still any good that's had so little in the way of high draft spots, and especially a team that's really never in the running to sign the top free agents in any particular year, and was more likely to lose the good players they drafted to free agency.  Eventually, your luck runs out.

[dmann422]

Intentionally losing games (or similarly- not trying to win games) breeds a losing culture, which can cause a lot more problems long term for a franchise than not getting a top 2 pick. The only teams in recent memory it worked for were the penguins and Blackhawks, and even then it took at least 5 years of tanking before it paid dividends. Meanwhile a team like the oilers tanks for 5 years and still seem like their at least 3 years away from competing.

Bottom line, tanking isn't a guarantee. I'm not advocating for us to be buyers come trade deadline, but I think it would be a mistake to have a fire sale and try to rely too much on young guys too soon.

[EdgeControl]

All things being equal, I'll take a higher draft pick any day of the week!!! we're losing plenty of games right now, Id rather see the sislo's & co.  give me a top 3 pick in a deep draft and watch how much better our drafting dept gets!

[vadvlfan]

I don't feel sorry for Emtn.  Remember when  (whomever made the pick) they filled the bars/their own building and applauded/screamed when all those highly touted draft picks names were called. Be careful what you wish for. Lars was supposed to be a phenom but, he's taking longer to develop. I was thrilled when we picked him. i was at Prudential Ctr. i think he's going to be top 4.

I believe too that if Lou were to retire, Conte is going with him. It's already been discussed over a beer last summer, Babcock is coming on as our GM.

[SterioDesign]

Right now were 5 pts behind Boston for a playoffs spot and 8 points ahead of the Oilers for last in the league....

 

I'm pretty confident i'd rather have a way bigger % of chances to land either McDavid or a top 3 pick who will be game changers in the future than an embarrassing first round exit again and picking halfway in the first round. What's the point?

[2ELIAS6]

Right now were 5 pts behind Boston for a playoffs spot and 8 points ahead of the Oilers for last in the league....

 

I'm pretty confident i'd rather have a way bigger % of chances to land either McDavid or a top 3 pick who will be game changers in the future than an embarrassing first round exit again and picking halfway in the first round. What's the point?

i never use to think this way and i still hate to..but the truth is this team honestly needs someone who is going to contribute and make a difference. Im willing to sacrafice the year for a good draft we need it desperately.

[Mike Brown]

One way to definitely help right the ship next year is to fire Deboer.

[Marshall]

Morin traded to CBJ for Tim Erixon, so there goes that option.

[BostonNala370]

One way to definitely help right the ship next year is to fire Deboer.

If he is fired and the roster stays the same there will be zero improvement.

Can you understand developing a business plan to improve this team over a period of time, not bandaids.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Well there goes Morin. Traded to CBJ for Tim Erixon.

Not to self read thread before posting.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Chimaira_Devil_#9

[sundstrom]

if tim erixon was enough, eric gelinas was enough

[SterioDesign]

a good example is Calgary... They are in a rebuilt at the moment but they dragged it too long. It was clear they were not gonna win a cup with the team they had, ultimately they had to trade Iggy... but too late. 

 

If they would have pulled the plug a bit before, they would have got WAY more for Iggy and maybe even Kipper and they'd be 2-3 years ahead in their development... Thats what im scared that Lou will do, just drag and drag and drag while there's obviously no hope.

[Sneax]

a good example is Calgary... They are in a rebuilt at the moment but they dragged it too long. It was clear they were not gonna win a cup with the team they had, ultimately they had to trade Iggy... but too late. 

 

If they would have pulled the plug a bit before, they would have got WAY more for Iggy and maybe even Kipper and they'd be 2-3 years ahead in their development... Thats what im scared that Lou will do, just drag and drag and drag while there's obviously no hope.

 

I think the best thing we could do as fans is actually no go to games to send a message. The new owners are not going to be happy with terrible attendance, stuff like that might at least put pressure on Lou to do something. If they try and patchwork this team again next year I might lose my mind, I would much rather watch a team developing new talent than watching a team with old aging veterans suck every night and know there is no future.

 

I'm a fan of a chronically bad football team, I watch them week in week out never miss a game, specifically because there are things to watch in hope of, right now this devils team is just fvcking bleak. And we cant fix what's wrong with FA, we need to start drafting some talent that pans out. This team has no real forward core.

[William D'Aquila]

I think the best thing we could do as fans is actually no go to games to send a message. The new owners are not going to be happy with terrible attendance, stuff like that might at least put pressure on Lou to do something. If they try and patchwork this team again next year I might lose my mind, I would much rather watch a team developing new talent than watching a team with old aging veterans suck every night and know there is no future.

 

I'm a fan of a chronically bad football team, I watch them week in week out never miss a game, specifically because there are things to watch in hope of, right now this devils team is just fvcking bleak. And we cant fix what's wrong with FA, we need to start drafting some talent that pans out. This team has no real forward core.

 

Always interested when people say stuff such as that. What do you want him to do? Have the owners pressure him into making a bad trade that sets back the franchise even more?

[CarpathianForest]

I think the best thing we could do as fans is actually no go to games to send a message. The new owners are not going to be happy with terrible attendance, stuff like that might at least put pressure on Lou to do something. If they try and patchwork this team again next year I might lose my mind, I would much rather watch a team developing new talent than watching a team with old aging veterans suck every night and know there is no future.

 

I'm a fan of a chronically bad football team, I watch them week in week out never miss a game, specifically because there are things to watch in hope of, right now this devils team is just fvcking bleak. And we cant fix what's wrong with FA, we need to start drafting some talent that pans out. This team has no real forward core.

 

Doesn't this pretty much happen already?

[Devil Dan 56]

I think the best thing we could do as fans is actually no go to games to send a message. The new owners are not going to be happy with terrible attendance, stuff like that might at least put pressure on Lou to do something. If they try and patchwork this team again next year I might lose my mind, I would much rather watch a team developing new talent than watching a team with old aging veterans suck every night and know there is no future.

I'm a fan of a chronically bad football team, I watch them week in week out never miss a game, specifically because there are things to watch in hope of, right now this devils team is just fvcking bleak. And we cant fix what's wrong with FA, we need to start drafting some talent that pans out. This team has no real forward core.

If the owners pressure for something, it will be the patchwork stuff again. There is no fix. They need to lose and draft early this year.

[devilsrule33]

If the owners pressure for something, it will be the patchwork stuff again. There is no fix. They need to lose and draft early this year.

 

The owners have shown that they won't be pressuring GMs to do anything crazy, but they probably want to see some direction that isn't 9-11th in the Conference every year.

[Sneax]

Always interested when people say stuff such as that. What do you want him to do? Have the owners pressure him into making a bad trade that sets back the franchise even more?

 

All he has done is delayed this franchise rebuild for years now. Every person on this board totes his mantra of we don't rebuild we reload. This team needs a fvcking rebuild, there needs to be pressure for that to happen because it clearly isn't happening on its own. Did you read what I said, I don't want patchwork I want a true rebuild, I don't want a panic trade that sets us back. The trades I want to see are moving our pieces for picks. These owners would be fine with that, they do own the 76ers. I want real change, not more of this meandering in mediocrity, eventually you aren't even mediocre. And that's where we are right now.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Sneax

[William D'Aquila]

He hasn't delayed anything. If Kovy doesn't leave and Parise doesn't sign elsewhere because of financial reasons everyone is singing Lou's praises. Unfortunately that did not happen, but he has rebuilt 2/3 of the team, while trying to staying competitive. If the Devils do get McDavid somehow, they will be an elite team within 2 to 3 years if not sooner.