Is it time to trade Cory Schenider?

[CarpathianForest]

There's a big assumption here that Edmonton or any team would actually be interested in Schneider.

[mfitz804]

There's a big assumption here that Edmonton or any team would actually be interested in Schneider.

I don't think there is any question that there would be plenty of interest in Schneider.

[NJDevs4978]

Edmonton wanted to give up the farm for Cory last year.  They're not particularly married to Scrivens or Fasth atm.  I'm sure they'll get a good scouting report from Fayne who saw Cory when he actually 'was' good.

 

Granted I'm still not ready to go all Paul Holmgren.  Like someone said, it's just not right for us to want to trade Cory when we complain about every other player leaving instead of signing long-term and Cory DID sign long-term.  Even though after tonight I'm sick of just about everyone and everything on this roster.

[HellOnICE]

Edmonton wanted to give up the farm for Cory last year.  They're not particularly married to Scrivens or Fasth atm.  I'm sure they'll get a good scouting report from Fayne who saw Cory when he actually 'was' good.

 

Granted I'm still not ready to go all Paul Holmgren.  Like someone said, it's just not right for us to want to trade Cory when we complain about every other player leaving instead of signing long-term and Cory DID sign long-term.  Even though after tonight I'm sick of just about everyone and everything on this roster.

 

Look, I love Cory - want him here long term. But like anything Hasan, it's about return. If Edmonton wants to give Hall+ for Schenider - it's hard pressed to say no to that.

[NJDevs4978]

It's not only about return it's about what you're replacing him with.  Replacing Cory with Kinkaid after three NHL starts is more or less like scratching a lottery ticket and hoping you hit it big.  If Kinkaid plays 15 or so games this year, 20-25 next year and proves he can start then talk to me about getting value back.  Even then you won't have seen Kinkaid as 'the guy' any more than you saw Cory as the guy before his big deal.

 

Getting value is meaningless if you patch up one hole with a partial solution and create another gaping one in the process.  We're totally jumping the shark as a fanbase talking about trading Cory after three games of Kinkaid.

Edited December 21, 2014 by NJDevs4978

[ATLL765]

It's not only about return it's about what you're replacing him with.  Replacing Cory with Kinkaid after three NHL starts is more or less like scratching a lottery ticket and hoping you hit it big.  If Kinkaid plays 15 or so games this year, 20-25 next year and proves he can start then talk to me about getting value back.  Even then you won't have seen Kinkaid as 'the guy' any more than you saw Cory as the guy before his big deal.

 

Getting value is meaningless if you patch up one hole with a partial solution and create another gaping one in the process.  We're totally jumping the shark as a fanbase talking about trading Cory after three games of Kinkaid.

Totally agree about robbing Peter to pay Paul and not really solving the bigger problem of creating a winning team, but finding a competent goalie is a lot easier than finding a top line forward, especially an elite talent like Taylor Hall.

[HellOnICE]

I'll take Fasth, Scrivens or make a trade in the offseason to get a goaltender in here, Much like the Isles did with Halak. There are goalies to be found.

It's not only about return it's about what you're replacing him with.  Replacing Cory with Kinkaid after three NHL starts is more or less like scratching a lottery ticket and hoping you hit it big.  If Kinkaid plays 15 or so games this year, 20-25 next year and proves he can start then talk to me about getting value back.  Even then you won't have seen Kinkaid as 'the guy' any more than you saw Cory as the guy before his big deal.

 

Getting value is meaningless if you patch up one hole with a partial solution and create another gaping one in the process.  We're totally jumping the shark as a fanbase talking about trading Cory after three games of Kinkaid.

Totally agree about robbing Peter to pay Paul and not really solving the bigger problem of creating a winning team, but finding a competent goalie is a lot easier than finding a top line forward, especially an elite talent like Taylor Hall.

My caluclations don't involve Kinkaid really. I think goalies are easier to find these days that are serviceable and top line forwards are harder to come by.

['7']

It's not only about return it's about what you're replacing him with.  Replacing Cory with Kinkaid after three NHL starts is more or less like scratching a lottery ticket and hoping you hit it big.  If Kinkaid plays 15 or so games this year, 20-25 next year and proves he can start then talk to me about getting value back.  Even then you won't have seen Kinkaid as 'the guy' any more than you saw Cory as the guy before his big deal.

 

Getting value is meaningless if you patch up one hole with a partial solution and create another gaping one in the process.  We're totally jumping the shark as a fanbase talking about trading Cory after three games of Kinkaid.

 

Some people would never warm up to Cory because he was the one who ultimately kicked Marty out the door. Schneider really just can't win here (both literally and figuratively) he can't win a shootout, the team can't score a goal for him...

[devilsrule33]

Some people would never warm up to Cory because he was the one who ultimately kicked Marty out the door. Schneider really just can't win here (both literally and figuratively) he can't win a shootout, the team can't score a goal for him...

 

You hit the nail on the head with your literally and figuratively comment. If Cory just won the games he deserved to win last year, it wouldn't be an issue. Going back to my earlier my point, in 12 of his 43 games last year, Cory was given a loss when giving up 1 goal or less in regulation. That's fvcking insane.

 

When the offense can't score, the microscope is on the goalie, every shot, every goal. "He could have saved this, could have saved that"  Fans are simply used to losing when Cory is in nets. Then you had fans pointing this out to Cory doubters or Brodeur lovers, so when the team does get 3 goals, and Cory loses, it's, "well the team scored for him, why can't he get the win now. What's the excuse for Cory"

 

It's been a miserable few years, and Schneider has unfortunately had to replace Brodeur with losing, but the reality is, his season last year was the best one by a goalie in a decade. His overall numbers as a Devil have been good. It's just a toxic place right now, and nothing is going his way.

[thefiestygoat]

Below numbers include OT games, not just regulation.

Between last year and this year, Schneider has gone 18-10 (.643) in games when giving up a goal or less. Over that time when he's given up 2 goals or less he's gone 24-20 (.545). Over that time when he gave up 3 goals or more he went 3-25 (.107).

For comparison, NHL goalies from last year to this year when giving up a goal or less had a .844 winning percentage. When giving up 2 goals or less it was a .727 winning percentage. When giving up 3 goals or more it was a .239 winning percentage.

I'm glad Schneider's got that nice contract to ease the blow of putting up with this team. It's got to be maddening for him. His 1 goal or less winning percentage is .201 below the league average. His 2 goal or less winning percentage is .182 below the league average. His 3 goals or more winning percentage is .132 below the league average so it's not even like they can bail him out on an off night.

Also, according to Rob Vollman's Hockey Abstract, Schneider has the 2nd highest Quality Start percentage among NHL goalies at 69% from 2011-14. Over that same time he also had the 4th highest Home Plate SV%. Though unfortunately, some fans will never appreciate him due to him replacing a legend and having a disappointing W-L record through no fault of his own.

Back on topic, I don't believe in untouchables so I'd be willing to move him if you could get an elite young forward like Hall, but I just don't think the Devils and Oilers match up at all as trade partners for a deal like that.

[HellOnICE]

Below numbers include OT games, not just regulation.

Between last year and this year, Schneider has gone 18-10 (.643) in games when giving up a goal or less. Over that time when he's given up 2 goals or less he's gone 24-20 (.545). Over that time when he gave up 3 goals or more he went 3-25 (.107).

For comparison, NHL goalies from last year to this year when giving up a goal or less had a .844 winning percentage. When giving up 2 goals or less it was a .727 winning percentage. When giving up 3 goals or more it was a .239 winning percentage.

I'm glad Schneider's got that nice contract to ease the blow of putting up with this team. It's got to be maddening for him. His 1 goal or less winning percentage is .201 below the league average. His 2 goal or less winning percentage is .182 below the league average. His 3 goals or more winning percentage is .132 below the league average so it's not even like they can bail him out on an off night.

Also, according to Rob Vollman's Hockey Abstract, Schneider has the 2nd highest Quality Start percentage among NHL goalies at 69% from 2011-14. Over that same time he also had the 4th highest Home Plate SV%. Though unfortunately, some fans will never appreciate him due to him replacing a legend and having a disappointing W-L record through no fault of his own.

Back on topic, I don't believe in untouchables so I'd be willing to move him if you could get an elite young forward like Hall, but I just don't think the Devils and Oilers match up at all as trade partners for a deal like that.

 

i don't know that they don't. Schneider could be a real key here and i'm just saying there might be a possibility. I think with our system and attention to detail, there's a good possibility even an OK goalie will do well here. Scrivens under protection, hell even Anti Niemmi is a FA this year - there's a potential for a hockey trade. We have young D, they need D, we have a goalie, they need a goalie. We badly need a Hall type - they have it. So I don't know - it's crazy to think about given the investment we made in Cory - but the more I think about it - the more I see it's not as crazy as people think.

[thefiestygoat]

i don't know that they don't. Schneider could be a real key here and i'm just saying there might be a possibility. I think with our system and attention to detail, there's a good possibility even an OK goalie will do well here. Scrivens under protection, hell even Anti Niemmi is a FA this year - there's a potential for a hockey trade. We have young D, they need D, we have a goalie, they need a goalie. We badly need a Hall type - they have it. So I don't know - it's crazy to think about given the investment we made in Cory - but the more I think about it - the more I see it's not as crazy as people think.

Admittedly, I don't follow the Oilers closely but I would imagine that if they moved Hall they'd want a decent NHL forward like Henrique to be coming back in the package. I could be wrong though. If they are as desperate to get a guy like Schneider as they were rumored to in the past, than maybe that wouldn't matter.

 

I do agree that in today's NHL it seems easy enough to get a decent stop gap goalie, which is one reason that despite loving Schneider, I'm not against the idea of moving him if it was for an elite offensive talent.

 

Not to derail the thread but I do wonder if there is any way the Devils could buy low on Yakupov? He'd be a lottery ticket that may not work out but it would be nice to add a player with his talent to the organization. I have no idea if Edmonton is desperate to move him though.

[Marshall]

 

 

Not to derail the thread but I do wonder if there is any way the Devils could buy low on Yakupov? He'd be a lottery ticket that may not work out but it would be nice to add a player with his talent to the organization. I have no idea if Edmonton is desperate to move him though.

 

The asking price is probably more akin to his projection in the draft vs what he's done lately. And therein lies the impasse. 

Edited December 21, 2014 by Marshall

[HellOnICE]

MArhsall is right. They'd want a decent prospect for him and we don't have that to give. We either get a sure thing or we don't make a move and stay  patient unless the price comes down. Do the Oil want to give up on the kid and off load for him a 3rd or I don't know, Graham Black - because that's all I am willing to give.

[Neb00rs]

This thread just needs to die at this point; everything that needs to be said, has been said. Trading Cory is the last thing we need to do.

[William D'Aquila]

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[Devil Dan 56]

Oh good. Beetlebum needs attention again.

[titans04]

Still no way in hell.

[aylbert]

[RunninWithTheDevil]

okay I've never been one to be a board policeman, but can we fvcking banhammer this douchebag again yet?  

I'm serious.

I have never seen anyone enjoy a single one of his useless posts and now hes bumping old threads just so he can hold a ruler to his cock for everyone

[SterioDesign]

so is that guy really Beetlebum? was that ever confirmed? lol

[SterioDesign]

He's said so himself a few times.

 

ahhh ok and why was he banned? i dont really remember of maybe i wasnt even posting back then?

[William D'Aquila]

okay I've never been one to be a board policeman, but can we fvcking banhammer this douchebag again yet?  

I'm serious.

I have never seen anyone enjoy a single one of his useless posts and now hes bumping old threads just so he can hold a ruler to his cock for everyone

 

So rattled

 

I would have to do something wrong to be banned, and as far as I know, having an opinion that is at odds with yours does not fall under that criteria. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by William D'Aquila

[2ELIAS6]

i dont understand certain things around here.. if someone is being ridiculous why feed the fire and comment and show attention..if you dont like something just ignore and if everyone feels the same and ignores it theres a better chance of it going away

[William D'Aquila]

I think it was before your time. He got banned for the same reason hell get banned again- he's a troll who gets horny when people call him out for it. Eventually enough people hated him and he caused long and unending arguments in every thread he was in.

 

Haha not the reason I was banned.