William D'Aquila Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 What I said is true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_on_the_Freedom_of_the_Press_of_29_July_1881 Racially defamatory comments and incitement to racial hatred were criminalised when the law was amended by the Law of 1 July 1972. The French parliament further amended the Press Law in 2004 to make it a crime to discriminate against or defame individuals on the basis of their sexual orientation. Such offences are punished by jail terms of between six months and a year and a fine of between €22,500 and €45,000. I'm interested in how often the law is enforced. The problem with your statement, which I will continue to have issue with is the idea that " It doesn't. Insulting or speaking out against an ethnic group or religion in France, and many other countries for that matter, is against the law. That's a pretty good deal for Muslims. They can keep pouring into France, and traditional Frenchmen are told to shut up about it. " The national front continues to make insulting comments about north africans and in the past against the jews. As for the average french citizen not having an outlet to voice their displeasure, that is a completely laughable premise. http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2013/01/24/la-religion-musulmane-fait-l-objet-d-un-profond-rejet-de-la-part-des-francais_1821698_3224.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Read up on the National Front, and tell me the French are not allowed to speak out or an insult an ethnic group or religion. Their whole platform is built on such political tactics. Little background info http://archive.adl.org/international/le-pen_new.html What the Anti-Defamation League calls "right-wing extremism" and "bigotry," I call a love for and loyalty to the traditional French people. The ADL has its point of view, others have theirs. Jean-Marie Le Pen has broken hate speech laws in the past. I don't think he has done jail time but I believe he has been fined. Another National Front politician, Anne Sophie Leclere, did land in jail for posting a photo of a black official next to a monkey. That was not a very nice thing to do, and it was politically stupid. It achieves nothing and gives your enemies an opening to attack you. Marine Le Pen, on the other hand, is much more measured. She knows how important it is not to give your enemies the ammunition to destroy you. Note that she calls the National Front pro-French, not anti-Islamic. It's a winning strategy, I believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) What the Anti-Defamation League calls "right-wing extremism" and "bigotry," I call a love for and loyalty to the traditional French people. The ADL has its point of view, others have theirs. Jean-Marie Le Pen has broken hate speech laws in the past. I don't think he has done jail time but I believe he has been fined. Another National Front politician, Anne Sophie Leclere, did land in jail for posting a photo of a black official next to a monkey. That was not a very nice thing to do, and it was politically stupid. It achieves nothing and gives your enemies an opening to attack you. Marine Le Pen, on the other hand, is much more measured. She knows how important it is not to give your enemies the ammunition to destroy you. Note that she calls the National Front pro-French, not anti-Islamic. It's a winning strategy, I believe. Again the idea that the average French Person does not have an outlet either in public or private sphere to voice concerns relating to immigration is false. Is it not bigoted to say the holocaust did not occur? I certainly had a plethora of elderly neighbors in the Bronx with tattoos of serial numbers on their arms. Edited January 13, 2015 by William D'Aquila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So you are a holocaust denier? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No. So you would view what he said as a bigoted statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Again the idea that the average French Person does not have an outlet either in public or private sphere to voice concerns relating to immigration is false. Is it not bigoted to say the holocaust did not occur? I certainly had a plethora of elderly neighbors in the Bronx with tattoos of serial numbers on their arms. Who cares what the average Joe can do on a comment thread or in a pub talking to his friends? The hate-speech laws exist as a means for the people in power to harm their enemies -- people who are a threat to their power. It's why Marine Le Pen has to be conscientious about what she says and how she says things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Who cares what the average Joe can do on a comment thread or in a pub talking to his friends? The hate-speech laws exist as a means for the people in power to harm their enemies -- people who are a threat to their power. It's why Marine Le Pen has to be conscientious about what she says and how she says things. You cared what the "average joe" could do or say - "they can keep pouring into France, and traditional Frenchmen are told to shut up about it. Something like 7% of France is Muslim. That sounds like a volatile situation to me. At some point, the white people in France aren't going to stand for their displacement." Also where are the french being displaced? Is this occupational, is it from their cities and towns, or is it from certain neighborhoods? Do you really believe the hate speech laws limit what Maria Le Pen can do politically? Its not a big secret what issues the National Front runs on, but yet they are a marginal party. What stems the National Front's success is the party's platform. A nation state with a mature bureaucracy, in concert with a strong democracy will never put a ring wing party into power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 So you would view what he said as a bigoted statement? I don't know what he exactly said, but I would say that a flat-out denial of the holocaust is incorrect. Is it bigoted? I suppose so. I think a better word is inflammatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Also where are the french being displaced? Is this occupational, is it from their cities and towns, or is it from certain neighborhoods? Displacement was the wrong word. Dispossession is more accurate. The greater percentage of Muslims, the less French the country is. The Muslim population cannot be assimilated in France or any Western country. Look at the results of Muslim immigration. Is there tension and animosity in that country or is there not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The French parliament has passed several laws on when and where women can wear headscarves. In March 2004 school staff were banned from wearing insignia or garments displaying a religious allegiance. In April 2007 the rules were also applied to those delivering a public service. There are no specific rules for private firms. You conveniently left this out. Surely, if 7% of the population had as much power as you said they do laws like this would not be passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Displacement was the wrong word. Dispossession is more accurate. The greater percentage of Muslims, the less French the country is. The Muslim population cannot be assimilated in France or any Western country. Look at the results of Muslim immigration. Is there tension and animosity in that country or is there not? I don't think the tension stems from the religion though. Equality of opportunity or lack there of is a big issue. The muslim population is younger than the french population as a whole, which suffers from high youth unemployment, so they feel these issues more acutely. Just because one is Muslim does not preclude you from being French. You can't extrapolate from a small minority that are in the country for nefarious reasons and assume that it is representative of the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The French parliament has passed several laws on when and where women can wear headscarves. In March 2004 school staff were banned from wearing insignia or garments displaying a religious allegiance. In April 2007 the rules were also applied to those delivering a public service. There are no specific rules for private firms. You conveniently left this out. Surely, if 7% of the population had as much power as you said they do laws like this would not be passed. There's one that the French government got right! I never said Muslims have power. The multiculturalists, liberals and equality-obsessd are, however ... you know, the ones that say it's not Islam that's the problem, it's radical Islam. I look at issues like the wearing of the niqab, and conclude that Muslim immigration was a grave mistake. It just shows how unassimilable the Muslims are. European immigration, good. Non-European immigration, bad. The same goes for our country, in my opinion. Just because one is Muslim does not preclude you from being French. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Equality of opportunity or lack there of is a big issue. We disagree on this, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 You are free to think whtaver you want.. but, and of course i'm not the only one ... Muslims are french, Jewish are french, christians are french... people who think in the big Pasta are french.. who care what their God is ? who care what they are believe in ? The principle of this nation is that the republic is above any religion.. that no religion can interfer with our nation. Now of course it's not easy to achieve. Muslims was hijacked by a$$hole that try to move the line... Lot of people disagree and conflict appears . How we deal with that ? Depends... Laws enforcement, punishment when it's over the line. Sensibility is at a very high level since "few" years... But for example, you can make a lot more joke about Christian & Muslims than about Jewish.. but there is an historical background that explain that. CHarlie hebdo was making fun of everything, everyone and was using satirical. I would say that's one really french way to show how support to people that struggle from extremism... I don't expect other countries to fully understand us and our way to deal with it ... as i don't understand so many way of thinking coming from USA... But that's far from being a problem ! Anyway, sunday's walk was good... and french take back the power (at least for one day) and can use again the flag and the anthem without this bitter feeling of being nationalist (they have stole us all french symbol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7HEbvGIIAADzYw.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7FWCnCCIAIpmWr.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7E8dQIIAAARjM-.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7E9Q6XCcAIW0fZ.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7Fn03UCIAA3UI9.jpg:large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 I just watch How foxnews make the news about France and what they call no-go zone where non Muslim aren't Allowed to go... This is disgusting and... How can these guys can have a job... Or at least call this "journalism" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglejelly Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I just watch How foxnews make the news about France and what they call no-go zone where non Muslim aren't Allowed to go... This is disgusting and... How can these guys can have a job... Or at least call this "journalism" ? They not only make up stuff about France, if that makes you feel better http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11339077/The-truth-about-Birmingham-foxnewsfacts.html @#foxnewsfacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I just watch How foxnews make the news about France and what they call no-go zone where non Muslim aren't Allowed to go... This is disgusting and... How can these guys can have a job... Or at least call this "journalism" ? From what I've read, the claim is that there are certain areas of France that authorities have, de facto, conceded authority to the local Muslim populations, and won't respond except to the most serious matters, and that anyone that's obviously non-Muslim will at least be harrassed until they leave. It might be something that's lost in the translation, but I'm pretty sure that no one is arguing that there are parts of Europe where non-Muslims are forbidden to go by law. To be clear, I don't know if this is really what's going on, but it's not a particularly unusual phenomenon in the Western world. Much of Newark is a no-go zone, and gangs and thugs are very much a law unto themselves over certain pieces of real estate. So I don't doubt that there are pretty dangerous parts of France that are predominantly Muslim where they pretty much run the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 From what I've read, the claim is that there are certain areas of France that authorities have, de facto, conceded authority to the local Muslim populations, and won't respond except to the most serious matters, and that anyone that's obviously non-Muslim will at least be harrassed until they leave. It might be something that's lost in the translation, but I'm pretty sure that no one is arguing that there are parts of Europe where non-Muslims are forbidden to go by law. To be clear, I don't know if this is really what's going on, but it's not a particularly unusual phenomenon in the Western world. Much of Newark is a no-go zone, and gangs and thugs are very much a law unto themselves over certain pieces of real estate. So I don't doubt that there are pretty dangerous parts of France that are predominantly Muslim where they pretty much run the show. I understand that.. and it's so false... I mean ... can't be so far from the truth ! FIrst of all, the map they are using are the zone where people have less money, less job... it's not even the high level of criminality.. let alone where the "muslim" are. They are using as picture in the background video of riot from 10 years ago... just like it's the daily basis... And it's not lost in translation, they are just saying that cop doesn't go there... wow ! It's so stupid.. Oh.. and one example... i spend few years in two of "these zones".. i'm not muslim.. i never had a problem with any of "them" ... there or everywhere else. OH... better.. i was walking with my kids this afternoon in this SUCH CRIMINAL PLACE ... we were lost and terrible young guys muslim to the bones did help us find our way (to the civilsation) Maybe you will rather believe someone that live there ... so believe me... if this is the view US got about france & muslim.. I can understand now previous comments in this thread ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 https://medium.com/@sened/this-is-paris-e8729d0108c1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) I just watch How foxnews make the news about France and what they call no-go zone where non Muslim aren't Allowed to go... This is disgusting and... How can these guys can have a job... Or at least call this "journalism" ? What is the truth? Fox News isn't the only outlet reporting that white people generally don't venture into the Maghrebi neighborhoods. (I didn't see your response when I wrote the post. Thanks for the link.) Do the Roma live there, too? Edited January 14, 2015 by Jerrydevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I understand that.. and it's so false... I mean ... can't be so far from the truth ! FIrst of all, the map they are using are the zone where people have less money, less job... it's not even the high level of criminality.. let alone where the "muslim" are. They are using as picture in the background video of riot from 10 years ago... just like it's the daily basis... And it's not lost in translation, they are just saying that cop doesn't go there... wow ! It's so stupid.. Oh.. and one example... i spend few years in two of "these zones".. i'm not muslim.. i never had a problem with any of "them" ... there or everywhere else. OH... better.. i was walking with my kids this afternoon in this SUCH CRIMINAL PLACE ... we were lost and terrible young guys muslim to the bones did help us find our way (to the civilsation) Maybe you will rather believe someone that live there ... so believe me... if this is the view US got about france & muslim.. I can understand now previous comments in this thread ... Fair enough. And the claim that sharia law is enforced in France like it is in Saudi Arabia or ISIS held territory is pretty absurd on its face. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) What is the truth? Fox News isn't the only outlet reporting that white people generally don't venture into the Maghrebi neighborhoods. (I didn't see your response when I wrote the post. Thanks for the link.) Do the Roma live there, too? The Truth ? The truth is that there is no muslim area in Paris or in France... as there is a china town ... and even that it's not that clear. We don't have "community" district here... and more important, Muslim isn't a community. We have "popular" place.. by popular i mean less " clean & parisian beautiful " ... with ton of store with african products... with church next to a kebab restaurant. There is a study that, in paris, Crime doesn't happen more often in these areas rather than rest of Paris... and that what you calll" non white people " aren't more implicated in crime (some people were saying that... and official data were release to prove them wrong) So the truth is that there is not a maghrebi neighborhoods inside Paris ... Of course you find more arab (and not necessary musilm btw) in more cheap area (it's a social situation... ). I'm currently in the 20 district ... my son is in a school with lot of arabs, lot of african people and also lot of white people... No one seems scared there ! (and i almost spit my food when i hear the guy saying that sharia rules were applied in Paris.. Like.. SERIOUSLY ?! ; ) ) And nop.. there isn't a roma district as well but there are more outside paris Edited January 14, 2015 by moustic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) That guy from fox news was insane. He said that Birmingham was a completely Muslim city into which "white" (didnt realise being Muslin determined your race, since its a religion) people do not enter. Then he said that there were sharia police in areas of London who go around beating people that don't conform to Sharia Law. Needless to say he has been ripped to shreds by almost every TV show over here. Edit: Whoops , didn't seen Eaglejelly had already posted it. Edited January 19, 2015 by Chimaira_Devil_#9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=524_1421523639 uh uh uh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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