World Cup of Hockey

[MadDog2020]

I thought this deserved its own thread, as an announcement is expected to be made regarding the WCOH over the All-Star break. I think the format of 6 traditional hockey powers and 2 'all-star' teams is straight up LAME though. I hope they don't go with that format in the end, but it looks like that's where we're headed: http://www.thescore.com/news/682363

Edited January 17, 2015 by MadDog2020

[Neb00rs]

The format, as McKenzie described it when he  joined TSN Radio Tuesday afternoon, would feature the six "traditional hockey powers" and another two teams with no national affiliation: one with players from other European countries, and one with players under 23 years of age from any country.

 

How fvcking stupid is this? Let's gimmick it up right out of the gate.

[Triumph]

That's a good idea because it is stupid to either have those countries who are left out going through some sort of Byzantine qualification process (and who wants to do that) only to be patsies at this level, or to leave out talented players who should otherwise get a chance on this stage.  No one wants to see Canada play Germany or Switzerland.  But I don't want to see a tournament without Anze Kopitar, either.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Triumph

[Jerzey]

I'm guessing this means no more NHL players in the Olympics.

[MadDog2020]

That's a good idea because it is stupid to either have those countries who are left out going through some sort of Byzantine qualification process (and who wants to do that) only to be patsies at this level, or to leave out talented players who should otherwise get a chance on this stage. No one wants to see Canada play Germany or Switzerland. But I don't want to see a tournament without Anze Kopitar, either.

I can understand a Ryder Cup-style team with elite-level talent from various countries who aren't hockey superpowers, like a Kopitar. But an 'all-star' team of guys under 23 from all over? That's where I draw the line. That's stupid. Edited January 17, 2015 by MadDog2020

[Triumph]

I can understand a Ryder Cup-style team with elite-level talent from various countries who aren't hockey superpowers, like a Kopitar. But an 'all-star' team of guys under 23 from all over? That's where I draw the line. That's stupid.

 

The Canadian team didn't bring Sidney Crosby in 2006.  I don't think the Americans would bring Jack Eichel now, or even 2 years from now.  This is a good way for other countries to get their guys international experience without having to bring them on their own team.  And you need an 8th team, so it's either bring a second-rate team like Slovakia or Germany or do something like this.

[MadDog2020]

The Canadian team didn't bring Sidney Crosby in 2006. I don't think the Americans would bring Jack Eichel now, or even 2 years from now. This is a good way for other countries to get their guys international experience without having to bring them on their own team. And you need an 8th team, so it's either bring a second-rate team like Slovakia or Germany or do something like this.

I see your point, but this is supposed to be an international tournament. I'd actually prefer a lower-level country than that idea, as I think it keeps with the international theme better.

[Triumph]

I see your point, but this is supposed to be an international tournament. I'd actually prefer a lower-level country than that idea, as I think it keeps with the international theme better.

 

I'd much rather see a team of young stars that has almost no chance then see an international team that has almost no chance of winning getting swept off the ice constantly.  It's going to be bad enough if the Czech Republic isn't allowed to pair up with Slovakia.  The point of this tournament is both to be a competition but also to make money, and again, no one wants to see Germany play Canada.  The Olympic format sucks, people just accept it because it's the Olympics.  This to me makes every game watchable.

[Neb00rs]

That's a good idea because it is stupid to either have those countries who are left out going through some sort of Byzantine qualification process (and who wants to do that) only to be patsies at this level, or to leave out talented players who should otherwise get a chance on this stage.  No one wants to see Canada play Germany or Switzerland.  But I don't want to see a tournament without Anze Kopitar, either.

 

It's the under 23 team that really bothers me. I don't really have a problem with a minor country all-star team, as long as the countries are located in the same geographical area, a la the West Indies in Cricket.

 

And as MD said: I'd rather have low level teams in there and have a qualifying system. It works for soccer.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Neb00rs

[Derek21]

I wish they would go back to the old days of World Cup. It would be a perfect way to promote the game's brightest stars. The Olympics are such a draw. They'll probably never go back to amateurs. I would prefer they do. 

[ATLL765]

It's the under 23 team that really bothers me. I don't really have a problem with a minor country all-star team, as long as the countries are located in the same geographical area, a la the West Indies in Cricket.

And as MD said: I'd rather have low level teams in there and have a qualifying system. It works for soccer.

Not sure what the 6 traditional hockey countries are, probably Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden, Finland and Czech+Slovakia?

I like the idea of grouping the weaker countries together by geographical areas. You could then have two other teams being other southern Europe countries consisting of Slovenia, Switzerland and maybe Kazakhstan even though that's not really in Europe. Then the northern Europe teams of Denmark, Germany, Belarus,Latvia, Lithuania, etc.

[Triumph]

It's the under 23 team that really bothers me. I don't really have a problem with a minor country all-star team, as long as the countries are located in the same geographical area, a la the West Indies in Cricket.

 

And as MD said: I'd rather have low level teams in there and have a qualifying system. It works for soccer.

 

This tournament is to make money and promote the game of hockey.  Forcing countries with zero draw and little interest in hockey to play each other for a for-profit tournament is a good way to lose money on the endeavor.  And again, it lets a team into the tournament with absolutely no business being there - a team whose game is going to bring down the quality of play.  No one wants a Switzerland in this tournament who wins by playing a 0-5 neutral zone trap in the NZ and a collapse system in the D zone.  Everyone at this tournament should be capable of playing in the NHL in a top 9 forward, top 4 D, role.

 

The reason why it works for soccer is because soccer is the world's #1 sport.  Even then, the World Cup Finals has plenty of dud matches between two teams with little chance at anything because of regional concerns.  

Edited January 17, 2015 by Triumph

[SterioDesign]

well....im gonna have agree with everything Tri said here so far

[HellOnICE]

Agreed. I really like this format of a world all star team and "the young guns." This way too you might see a team next year with McDavid and Eichel on the same team with Severson, Jones to name a couple. 

[Neb00rs]

This tournament is to make money and promote the game of hockey.  Forcing countries with zero draw and little interest in hockey to play each other for a for-profit tournament is a good way to lose money on the endeavor.  And again, it lets a team into the tournament with absolutely no business being there - a team whose game is going to bring down the quality of play.  No one wants a Switzerland in this tournament who wins by playing a 0-5 neutral zone trap in the NZ and a collapse system in the D zone.  Everyone at this tournament should be capable of playing in the NHL in a top 9 forward, top 4 D, role.

 

The reason why it works for soccer is because soccer is the world's #1 sport.  Even then, the World Cup Finals has plenty of dud matches between two teams with little chance at anything because of regional concerns.  

 

It may be a touch idealist, but the idea of a 'world cup' to me is to develop more interest in hockey around the world and get more countries playing the game at a high level. I suppose to make money in the short term your explanation makes a lot of sense. And I suppose they can always amend the format if need be. Still, I think the under 23 team makes no sense as far as consistency goes, it's really gimmicky and it takes away from the international authenticity of the tournament.

 

I would feel much better if they had an 'under 23 world team' and an 'under 23 NA team', though I am not sure how competitive those rosters would be.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Neb00rs

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Sounds like a complete gimmick. I would have no interest. Banding together smaller European nations best players into one team is not only disrespectful it's damaging to the progression of hockey in those countries.

International tournaments are one of the few times that players playing in Europe get to test themselves against the best of the best. Programmes and teams don't progress if you don't get to compete against the best.

Look at the performances in the Olympics recently. Latvia played out of their minds, they scared the sh!t out of Canada in the playoff round. Slovenia pushed teams all the way and the Swiss played some excellent defensive hockey until they eventually ran out of steam.

That's how you build interest in a sport globally in smaller markets.

Not picking a few players from here and there and throwing them out as the European all stars. Who is going to give a flying f*ck about that team?

[HellOnICE]

Sounds like a complete gimmick. I would have no interest. Banding together smaller European nations best players into one team is not only disrespectful it's damaging to the progression of hockey in those countries.

International tournaments are one of the few times that players playing in Europe get to test themselves against the best of the best. Programmes and teams don't progress if you don't get to compete against the best.

Look at the performances in the Olympics recently. Latvia played out of their minds, they scared the sh!t out of Canada in the playoff round. Slovenia pushed teams all the way and the Swiss played some excellent defensive hockey until they eventually ran out of steam.

That's how you build interest in a sport globally in smaller markets.

Not picking a few players from here and there and throwing them out as the European all stars. Who is going to give a flying f*ck about that team?

 

It's insulting to who? The countries? Ask players like Kopitar, Gaborik - I bet they'd tell you they would rather have this all star team that way they have a chance to one actually be in the tournament, and two - not get murdered. If there's a Latvian (Grgensons) on the World Team and they go and actually win this thing - you don't think Latvians wouldn't be glued to their tv sets to cheer their own guy? I think the hockey fans in those countries would be elated to cheer a team that has a chance to win. 

[SterioDesign]

Its been joked about and mentionned but id really like to see an international tournament with 2 team canada and see what they could do, theres litterally enough top players to build 2 strong enough teams

[CRASHER]

I'd rather see two Canadian teams over some weird "young stars" team....how would you split them? East vs West? Quebec vs the Rest (that game in itself would be a MUST see)

[MadDog2020]

Quebec vs English-speaking Canada would be a must-watch, I agree Crash. That would be some great hockey.

[eaglejelly]

It's insulting to who? The countries? Ask players like Kopitar, Gaborik - I bet they'd tell you they would rather have this all star team that way they have a chance to one actually be in the tournament, and two - not get murdered. If there's a Latvian (Grgensons) on the World Team and they go and actually win this thing - you don't think Latvians wouldn't be glued to their tv sets to cheer their own guy? I think the hockey fans in those countries would be elated to cheer a team that has a chance to win. 

Do you thinks US soccer players would prefer to be on a team together with Mexicans and central Americans to have a bigger chance of winning the world cup?

[Devils731]

Under the 2 Canada scenario, I can't wait to hear how that prevented Canada from winning every time they don't.

I like the current proposed format. Much more interesting than adding 2 awful teams to the 6 supposed good ones.

[Triumph]

Sounds like a complete gimmick. I would have no interest. Banding together smaller European nations best players into one team is not only disrespectful it's damaging to the progression of hockey in those countries.

International tournaments are one of the few times that players playing in Europe get to test themselves against the best of the best. Programmes and teams don't progress if you don't get to compete against the best.

Look at the performances in the Olympics recently. Latvia played out of their minds, they scared the sh!t out of Canada in the playoff round. Slovenia pushed teams all the way and the Swiss played some excellent defensive hockey until they eventually ran out of steam.

That's how you build interest in a sport globally in smaller markets.

Not picking a few players from here and there and throwing them out as the European all stars. Who is going to give a flying f*ck about that team?

 

I don't care who cares about that team.  Latvia, Slovenia, and Switzerland are never going to compete with Canada and the US at hockey.  Sure, they can win a game off one of them 1 out of 10 times.  But the hockey is going to be miserable to watch for anyone neutral - it's going to be the big power dominating the game 95% of the time and the smaller side is just going to try to limit the huge chances.  I want to see world-class players playing hockey at a high level without all sorts of systems designed to slow them down, and when you get teams like Switzerland in there where that's their only chance of winning is playing tremendously passive and hoping their goalie can stop 40 shots, I'm not interested in that.  The Olympics will still exist and if the NHL pulls out - these countries will do better in the Olympics anyway, so they'll have that tournament.  This is about best on best hockey and getting together all the world's best players for a tournament.  It's less about nationalism than the Olympics.  I would watch just about any of these games - maybe I wouldn't watch Czech Republic-Finland or Sweden-Czech Republic.  But I won't watch 50% of Olympic hockey.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Triumph

[eaglejelly]

I don't care who cares about that team. Latvia, Slovenia, and Switzerland are never going to compete with Canada and the US at hockey. Sure, they can win a game off one of them 1 out of 10 times. But the hockey is going to be miserable to watch for anyone neutral - it's going to be the big power dominating the game 95% of the time and the smaller side is just going to try to limit the huge chances. I want to see world-class players playing hockey at a high level without all sorts of systems designed to slow them down, and when you get teams like Switzerland in there where that's their only chance of winning is playing tremendously passive and hoping their goalie can stop 40 shots, I'm not interested in that. The Olympics will still exist and if the NHL pulls out - these countries will do better in the Olympics anyway, so they'll have that tournament. This is about best on best hockey and getting together all the world's best players for a tournament. It's less about nationalism than the Olympics. I would watch just about any of these games - maybe I wouldn't watch Czech Republic-Finland or Sweden-Czech Republic. But I won't watch 50% of Olympic hockey.

You are fooling yourself. This is a money grab by the NHL and a excuse not to send its players to the Olympics. These games will have the quality of pre-season games, because that's exactly what they will be.

[Triumph]

You are fooling yourself. This is a money grab by the NHL and a excuse not to send its players to the Olympics. These games will have the quality of pre-season games, because that's exactly what they will be.

 

Glad you can see the future.  First off, the NHL shouldn't send its players to the Olympics unless they are in Western Europe or North America because the games aren't on live at a time when anyone can watch them.  Olympic hockey will be just fine without the best players in the world.  Second, if you think getting a bunch of guys out there for a legit best on best competition and the players won't respond to that, I think you massively underestimate the competitiveness of these athletes.  Players care about the World Championship and that is a nonsense tournament where most of the best players in the world can't or refuse to attend.