Jerzey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) You've got 1000 posts so you must've heard the counterarguments, like that the Devils are trying to win games, not stockpile assets. Yes, we'd be better off now if we had done that, but it's easy to look at things in hindsight. In addition, selling off players at the deadline sends a clear message to the rest of the team. I just can't agree with that philosophy and I think the lesson should have been learned after losing Parise. In today's game every player is an asset. Especially going into free agency. If you can't get a deal done by their last RFA year it's pretty clear they want to test free agency. You still think Clarkson would have netted a decent return in 2013 even after his play kind of fell off a cliff after the first 15-20 games? He was coming off of his best season and he was, for some reason, the most highly coveted UFA that year. At least that's what the reports out of Toronto would have us believe. I think we could have at least gotten a 3rd for him. Same with Fayne. Edited February 12, 2015 by Jerzey Devil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You still think Clarkson would have netted a decent return in 2013 even after his play kind of fell off a cliff after the first 15-20 games? 100%. Clowe got a two 2nds, and a 3rd for 0 goals, 1 concussion in 28 games with the Sharks. Jason Pominville was traded for Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, a 2013 1st round draft pick and a 2014 2nd round draft pick. We know how desperate the Capitals were for something, and the Bruins and Penguins were fighting badly for players as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I just can't agree with that philosophy and I think the lesson should have been learned after losing Parise. In today's game every player is an asset. Especially going into free agency. If you can't get a deal done by their last RFA year it's pretty clear they want to test free agency. He was coming off of his best season and he was, for some reason, the most highly coveted UFA that year. At least that's what the reports out of Toronto would have us believe. I think we could have at least gotten a 3rd for him. Same with Fayne. Lou signed Greene, Zajac and Schneider to long-term contracts well before their contracts were over since Parise. He also signed Henrique to a long-term deal though he was a RFA. 100%. Clowe got a two 2nds, and a 3rd for 0 goals, 1 concussion in 28 games with the Sharks. Jason Pominville was traded for Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, a 2013 1st round draft pick and a 2014 2nd round draft pick. We know how desperate the Capitals were for something, and the Bruins and Penguins were fighting badly for players as well. You think then Lou resisted offers thinking that we could make the playoffs then or maybe the other teams didn't quite put together a good package because they saw Clarkson's 30 goal season as the exception rather than the rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 As the board continues to have the same arguments over and over about what Lou has done with losing free agents with Sterio, he isn't 100% wrong, but he continues to lump it all together, which is 100% wrong or take into account what we simply do not know about what Lou tried to explore and what not. We know Lou is negotiating contracts during the season, but we just don't hear about it. From the list he continues to bring up, keeping Clarkson is the only one I have a problem with. A good thing about negotiating in the season is having an idea of what a player will probably receive come July 1st. What Lou realized before July 1st, he could have realized leading up to the trade deadline. Clarkson that year could have fetched a lot, so that one really hurts. Other than that, I am not going to kill him for Parise or Fayne, Gomez, Rafalski or Martin. The Devils had very strong teams, and your goal should be to win, not trade players for prospects and what not, thus giving up on a season. If those prospects pan out, then you might find yourself trading other good players before the deadline and ending your playoff chances that year. Eventually, you'll never be contending, just trading soon to be UFAs. A lot is subjective. A late 1st? Probably. But that would've left the Devils short a right wing on a team that already had no wing depth - a team that was already playing Clarkson with Elias and Zajac. And it's not like the East was super strong or that the Devils were playing poorly - on the contrary, they were playing well from the net out. Really doesn't have to. Lou's undeniably outdated and ineffective practices have made it that way, maybe. But a simple policy of negotiating midseason and extending your stars before the season's over would solve this situation completely. Pretty simple, in my mind. If you want to be a Devil, you sign a contract extension before the trade deadline of your final contractual season. If you don't or aren't sure, you get shipped out. I'm sure I'm oversimplifing it but it seems like it could be pretty cut and dry to me. No one operates this way, and even so, the Devils now don't have any stars to worry about in this regard. The Devils for the last 8 years have been dealing with the fact that their best players are aging, and have tried to put together a team to win a championship despite this. It hasn't worked out. Now that the rules for long-term contracts are very simple, I don't expect this to be an issue for whoever has to sign Severson to a long-term contract when that happens. Still, it sends a sh!tty message to the team when you trade off your best players in the midst of a playoff race, whether they want to leave or not. I don't think that's the kind of place players want to play. And it's not something that happens around the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What are we, going back in time now?!?! I knew there was something suspicious about those tickets. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Lou signed Greene, Zajac and Schneider to long-term contracts well before their contracts were over since Parise. He also signed Henrique to a long-term deal though he was a RFA. You think then Lou resisted offers thinking that we could make the playoffs then or maybe the other teams didn't quite put together a good package because they saw Clarkson's 30 goal season as the exception rather than the rule? But what would have happened if they refused to sign and wanted to try free agency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 But what would have happened if they refused to sign and wanted to try free agency? Who cares at this point? That's a lot of what if's. It didn't happen and they signed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Who cares at this point? That's a lot of what if's. It didn't happen and they signed here. The point he does try to sign them but when they say no he doesn't do anything about it. The real question is how many players has he let hit free agency and then signed them? I think Marty and Patty kind of set a ridiculous standard that no one else really follows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The point he does try to sign them but when they say no he doesn't do anything about it. The real question is how many players has he let hit free agency and then signed them? I think Marty and Patty kind of set a ridiculous standard that no one else really follows. But I also gave you three players who in the last 2 years signed with the Devils then before hitting July 1st. Like others have said I do not think Lou loses these players any more than other GM's. Plus outside of Parise, what other players do you think we should have signed to a huge deal before they left? Martin? Gionta? Clarkson? They are fine players (well maybe not Clarkson) but I am glad we didn't sign Martin and Gionta, especially for what they asked for. Niedermayer and Rafalski we gave max or near max deals, but they wanted to go home so we couldn't sign them no matter what we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 But I also gave you three players who in the last 2 years signed with the Devils then before hitting July 1st. Like others have said I do not think Lou loses these players any more than other GM's. Plus outside of Parise, what other players do you think we should have signed to a huge deal before they left? Martin? Gionta? Clarkson? They are fine players (well maybe not Clarkson) but I am glad we didn't sign Martin and Gionta, especially for what they asked for. Niedermayer and Rafalski we gave max or near max deals, but they wanted to go home so we couldn't sign them no matter what we did. I just want assets back for them instead of losing them for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Im surprised there is even a little interest in Ryder given his last two seasons. Its true, BUT on the flip side, you can get him for next to nothing and hope against hope he returns to his pre-NJ form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 For the record, the Caps RWs combined for 6 points yesterday on 4 goals and 2 assists. Again, I just don't see them pursuing Jagr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ryder can still play. He has his warts, but they are the same warts he's had his entire career. The Devil have done a disservice to him, and I mean that in the sense that if you are going to sign the guy, know his strengths and weaknesses and play him with players that can help him. They have played him with nobody that can help his game. Deboer kept Ryder/Henrique/Clowe together for months that crept into this year because of a few good games. They produced nothing for a long time, and Henrique was never the player to get Ryder going. Now with the new regime, they believe it's better to keep Ryder out of the lineup. I can't stand it. It's already been reported that scouts are waiting to watch him play. This is why a scout goes to watch Ryder -- to see if his numbers reflect how he looks. I bet if people that are familiar watched him, they'd go, "he doesn't look that much different than the guy a few years ago". Remember the Ryder you saw last year is pretty much the guy he was in 2008 and 2010. I keep going back to that one game of Henrique/Elias/Ryder. They looked awesome, and it was one of the rare times he got to play with a good center. Elias has looked a lot healthier, and I only wish that Ryder would have gotten a chance to play with him instead of Havlat. A few good games or shifts, a nice goal, would go along way of bringing back a decent pick. Instead...press box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Clean house. It's time. Bye Lou, Stevens, and Adam. Get rid of them all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Clean house. It's time. Bye Lou, Stevens, and Adam. Get rid of them all. For the first time, I'm starting to think this might be the end of Lou. I guess it'll depend on the type of return he gets on assets at the trade deadline. Ryder and Gelinas not playing over what's there instead makes it look like just doesn't realize what's going on around him. We'll know soon enough. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Clean house. It's time. Bye Lou, Stevens, and Adam. Get rid of them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Don't forget to take Conte with you. I'm so scared that we're going to have a top 5 pick and they're going to draft a two way power forward. This years draft will be my final deciding factor on our management if they botch the draft. Maybe they'll go up a notch and draft something we need. That'll put them at notch 1. Edited February 12, 2015 by Jerzey Devil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) For the first time, I'm starting to think this might be the end of Lou. I guess it'll depend on the type of return he gets on assets at the trade deadline. Ryder and Gelinas not playing over what's there instead makes it look like just doesn't realize what's going on around him. We'll know soon enough. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I'm not ready to say Lou must go YET...but honestly if he doesn't deal Jagr/Zid at the deadline and Oates is the coach after April 13 then it's time for Harris and Blitzer to show some stones and put Lou out to pasture. There's no excuse not to recoup assets this year at the deadline, and having another Lou-stooge as a head coach isn't going to solve anything. And yeah it's annoying he's not playing Ryder when you WANT to play him to pump up his trade value. Edited February 12, 2015 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ryder can still play. He has his warts, but they are the same warts he's had his entire career. The Devil have done a disservice to him, and I mean that in the sense that if you are going to sign the guy, know his strengths and weaknesses and play him with players that can help him. They have played him with nobody that can help his game. Deboer kept Ryder/Henrique/Clowe together for months that crept into this year because of a few good games. They produced nothing for a long time, and Henrique was never the player to get Ryder going. Now with the new regime, they believe it's better to keep Ryder out of the lineup. I can't stand it. It's already been reported that scouts are waiting to watch him play. This is why a scout goes to watch Ryder -- to see if his numbers reflect how he looks. I bet if people that are familiar watched him, they'd go, "he doesn't look that much different than the guy a few years ago". Remember the Ryder you saw last year is pretty much the guy he was in 2008 and 2010. I keep going back to that one game of Henrique/Elias/Ryder. They looked awesome, and it was one of the rare times he got to play with a good center. Elias has looked a lot healthier, and I only wish that Ryder would have gotten a chance to play with him instead of Havlat. A few good games or shifts, a nice goal, would go along way of bringing back a decent pick. Instead...press box. They played him with Loktionov some. That was a guy who would be perfect with Ryder - now if they could've found a guy who could play some defense with the left side, that's a 3rd line for sure. The problem isn't just that they're not valuing Ryder - who by the way is #1 among Devil forwards in shots/60 at even strength - it's that they thought Henrique was something he wasn't. And they've thought this basically since he came into the league. It's not going to cost them a ton because it's not like Henrique's contract is preventing anything, but Adam Henrique isn't a center, and he's not a future star. Clutch goals and secondary assists confuse people, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Don't forget to take Conte with you. I'm so scared that we're going to have a top 5 pick and they're going to draft a two way power forward. Or a d-man. A "stay at home" one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Lou is love Lou is life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLL765 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I just want assets back for them instead of losing them for nothing. I'm sick and tired of hearing that Lou loses players for nothing. It's not for "nothing". In the case of Parise, it was for a deep playoff run that took us to the SCF. Unfortunately with Clarkson it was for the chance at making the playoffs that didn't work out. That's how it goes sometimes though. You can't have a black and white policy of trading any player that hasn't re-signed by the trade deadline otherwise you'll be consistently trading away chances of making a deep playoff run because it's not like you'll be trading guys in their walk year for a player of equal talent that has years left on his deal. You'll either be getting someone who isn't as talented, but has term left on his deal or just getting future assets. Neither of which make a team better in the short term. It's absolutely stupid to think that you can make it work out so that you never lose players to FA. As a GM, you have to take that gamble in order to make the run in the playoffs that you believe the group you put together can make, otherwise you're always be planning for a future that never comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm sick and tired of hearing that Lou loses players for nothing. It's not for "nothing". In the case of Parise, it was for a deep playoff run that took us to the SCF. Unfortunately with Clarkson it was for the chance at making the playoffs that didn't work out. That's how it goes sometimes though. You can't have a black and white policy of trading any player that hasn't re-signed by the trade deadline otherwise you'll be consistently trading away chances of making a deep playoff run because it's not like you'll be trading guys in their walk year for a player of equal talent that has years left on his deal. You'll either be getting someone who isn't as talented, but has term left on his deal or just getting future assets. Neither of which make a team better in the short term. It's absolutely stupid to think that you can make it work out so that you never lose players to FA. As a GM, you have to take that gamble in order to make the run in the playoffs that you believe the group you put together can make, otherwise you're always be planning for a future that never comes. I disagree. The problem with going all in every year is that you don't set yourself up for any kind of future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLL765 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I disagree. The problem with going all in every year is that you don't set yourself up for any kind of future. So you're saying that a GM should ALWAYS trade pending UFAs even if they're an integral piece of your team and you're close to or in a playoff position? That's absolutely nuts. You're never going to get full value for a pending UFA, so you'll be on the losing end of that trade almost every time. Fans would come to your house with pitchforks and torches if you traded a top player away in a deal for future assets and/or a lesser player at the deadline while in a playoff position then fail to win a Cup. Edited February 13, 2015 by ATLL765 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think the Red Wings should trade Mike Babcock. Don't wanna lose him for nothing in the offseason after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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