Mayday Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Yeah you're right. He's currently got 40 assists and 12 goals in 59 games, but he's 35! Look at the quality forwards on that team though. Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, etc. I'm not saying he wouldn't produce but he wont fix the forward group and by the time NJ is playoff competitive again he will be upper 30s. Plus SJ won't give him away for scraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 How about this he's going to miss the playoffs for the third year in a row. Two of the better forwards game in and game out couldn't get an NHL job to start the season (Gomez and Bernier) throw a marginal guy like Tootoo into the mix in that regard. Yes there are some solid pieces on D and Cory has been unbelievable. Camm has been good, Ryder and Havlat are busts and they have nothing much to speak of in the minors forward wise. Hell if you turn the clock back far enough Sather won a bunch of cups too. Personally I think the mentality of interchangeable parts doesn't cut it these days. Spoiled fan base, sure I guess but this team without Cory is flat out unwatchable unless you enjoy offensively challenged train wrecks. Um what question are you answering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 There is no sign from the current staff that says Zubrus will be gone next year. I mean there is precedent of Lou buying out Brylin, but so far the new regime has played Zubrus quite a bit, and even today, he's practicing on a line with Patrik Elias, and back above Ruutu on the depth chart. There is just no way any sane person can look at the forward list and think with a few moves, this team is in the playoffs. You can make a lot of horrible long-term decisions in order to attempt it, but if you know how limited Zajac and Henrique are offensively, recognize that Elias will be 39 next year, and know that there is no one in the AHL ready to step up and take a spot....if you can recognize all that, you know this team has no chance of being a playoff team. The top 6 is the worst in the NHL, and there is absolutely no offense from the bottom 6. It's a fvcking disaster. Lou Lamoriello has ownerships approval. He has the money to make moves. The only problem is there is no short term fix. Not this off-season at least. Brylin was not bought out - he had a player option that the Devils convinced him not to use. I think when they look things over after the season they will see that they just can't have Zubrus here, he's going to end the season with at most 5 goals. They did the same with Colin White even though White finished the season playing a normal amount. Arizona's top 6 is clearly worse. But yes, I agree that this team can't think they're in the playoffs next year. First line centers are hard to come by and aren't available often these days... If the deal is right, may be worth taking a chance. But I only consider it if we don't have a top 5 pick. I don't move the pick for anything if it's top 5 (not likely at this point). He's a borderline 1st liner. NJ needs someone better than that, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Hold pat until the Lottery. When we win it then they go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Hold pat until the Lottery. When we win it then they go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Look at the quality forwards on that team though. Marleau, Couture, Pavelski, etc. I'm not saying he wouldn't produce but he wont fix the forward group and by the time NJ is playoff competitive again he will be upper 30s. Plus SJ won't give him away for scraps. NJ could become playoff competitive as soon as next year. It happens. Thornton didn't always play with those 3 players. He's someone that can elevate someone's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort4345 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I've been as big of a supporter of Lou as anyone over the years but today's draft deadline was a joke. I could have taken a homeless guy off the street, given him a 15-minute tutorial on the basic range of worth of the seven or so Devils players that could have been dealt and the results would have been no worse. A third for Zids. AND we pick up salary. That's what we got. The Devils aren't making the playoffs, at least two guys don't even want to be on the team anymore and Lou still trots out the tired old verbiage that NJ is still in the running for that elusive 8th seed, blah, blah, blah. As someone posted earlier, "same old sh--." Man, it's just a bummer being a Devils fan on trade deadline day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah you're right. He's currently got 40 assists and 12 goals in 59 games, but he's 35! Joe Thornton is still a great player. That said, anyone who thinks a skilled 35 year-old forward with an NMC in his contract who is desperately trying to win a Cup before he retires is going to end up on the Devils, in any way shape or form, is on one. Edited March 3, 2015 by Neb00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I've been as big of a supporter of Lou as anyone over the years but today's draft deadline was a joke. I could have taken a homeless guy off the street, given him a 15-minute tutorial on the basic range of worth of the seven or so Devils players that could have been dealt and the results would have been no worse. A third for Zids. AND we pick up salary. That's what we got. The Devils aren't making the playoffs, at least two guys don't even want to be on the team anymore and Lou still trots out the tired old verbiage that NJ is still in the running for that elusive 8th seed, blah, blah, blah. As someone posted earlier, "same old sh--." Man, it's just a bummer being a Devils fan on trade deadline day. Lou has said publicly that he had better offers but Marek didn't want to go those teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Interesting to hear Lou be forthright about using those picks to improve the team in the coming months - I don't know how much can be done on that score. I'm going to count Gomez, Bernier, and Tootoo as signed for next year (and Zubrus not), so that leaves the team as something like: Cammalleri-Zajac-? Henrique-Elias-? Ruutu-Gomez-Bernier Matteau-Gionta-Tootoo Greene-Larsson Merrill-Severson Gelinas-? That's pretty dire all around. A center is really needed and they need to clear out a LW somewhere along the way. Nothing short of McDavid can salvage this. Barring that, we're trading our first for someone who most likely couldn't make a more talented team hat good. Good times!!! Conte has so royally fvcked this team. When you realize there is no one in the system you could pay another team to take off your hands, it's absolutely frightening. It's amazing that the Rangers have not had a first round pick in what seems like forever, but you would probably trade every forward in our system for Buchenivich, and even that offer would probably get laughed at. I'm starting to think a Buffalo blow it up option is the only option. We're pinning our hopes on a goalie and a second round pick defenseman that has played all of 30 games in the NHL. It's going to be real, real bad. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Nothing short of McDavid can salvage this. Barring that, we're trading our first for someone who most likely couldn't make a more talented team hat good. Good times!!! Conte has so royally fvcked this team. When you realize there is no one in the system you could pay another team to take off your hands, it's absolutely frightening. It's amazing that the Rangers have not had a first round pick in what seems like forever, but you would probably trade every forward in our system for Buchenivich, and even that offer would probably get laughed at. I'm starting to think a Buffalo blow it up option is the only option. We're pinning our hopes on a goalie and a second round pick defenseman that has played all of 30 games in the NHL. It's going to be real, real bad. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I mean, the Rangers would trade all of their forward prospects for Severson. So let's not start playing that game - the Devils have just not had enough draft picks the last few years in order to restock their forwards. They've also missed on too many picks, but the idea that the Devils' staff is totally incompetent isn't borne out by evidence - they've gotten some solid defenders in that time. What would a Buffalo style rebuild accomplish? The Devils have 2 valuable players over the age of 25 - Greene and Schneider. Maybe Elias has value as a rental next year. Everything else isn't worth much. The rebuild's already happening - the thing is that they have to hit on this year's pick. That guy has to be a 1st liner, or someone else they draft has to be. And then they'll be bad next year, and that guy has to be good too. Then things are looking up. A Buffalo style rebuild with Larsson and Severson here doesn't add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMazz Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think more people are blaming Conte then he should. His job is to scout prospects, not develop them. People seem to forget that former picks like Jeff Frazee, Tedenby and YaYo were VERY highly touted at a point in time and in Frazee's case was even touted higher then Quick. Conte can't help that those picks weren't developed to their full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I mean, the Rangers would trade all of their forward prospects for Severson. So let's not start playing that game - the Devils have just not had enough draft picks the last few years in order to restock their forwards. They've also missed on too many picks, but the idea that the Devils' staff is totally incompetent isn't borne out by evidence - they've gotten some solid defenders in that time. What would a Buffalo style rebuild accomplish? The Devils have 2 valuable players over the age of 25 - Greene and Schneider. Maybe Elias has value as a rental next year. Everything else isn't worth much. The rebuild's already happening - the thing is that they have to hit on this year's pick. That guy has to be a 1st liner, or someone else they draft has to be. And then they'll be bad next year, and that guy has to be good too. Then things are looking up. A Buffalo style rebuild with Larsson and Severson here doesn't add up. Severson has played all of 30 games. It's nice that all the analytics say he's better than McDavid, Ekblad and Crosby all rolled into one, but even Nik Lidstrom needed a lot more to make his teams he was on as good as they were. And now it looks like Lou is trading this pick, and even if he doesn't trade it will be someone like Lawson Crouse. Whoopdie, frickin doo. And if they trade the pick, it will be for ROR who is not a first line center. Sorry, but this day has really revealed a lot, and it all stinks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans04 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I mean, the Rangers would trade all of their forward prospects for Severson. minor league forward prospects I guess is what your referring to? I don't think they trade many or maybe even any of the young forwards that are playing at this level now. They don't need Severson. Hell Hayes an undrafted guy has more value than any of our forward picks over the last how many years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Severson has played all of 30 games. It's nice that all the analytics say he's better than McDavid, Ekblad and Crosby all rolled into one, but even Nik Lidstrom needed a lot more to make his teams he was on as good as they were. And now it looks like Lou is trading this pick, and even if he doesn't trade it will be someone like Lawson Crouse. Whoopdie, frickin doo. And if they trade the pick, it will be for ROR who is not a first line center. Sorry, but this day has really revealed a lot, and it all stinks. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Uhhh. No one is quoting analytics to show how good Severson is. Has anyone seen one statistic to prove how good Severson is? Everyone that is talking up Severson is quoting their eyes, and the number you see is 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 minor league forward prospects I guess is what your referring to? I don't think they trade many or maybe even any of the young forwards that are playing at this level now. They don't need Severson. Hell Hayes an undrafted guy has more value than any of our forward picks over the last how many years Hayes was not undrafted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Uhhh. No one is quoting analytics to show how good Severson is. Has anyone seen one statistic to prove how good Severson is? Everyone that is talking up Severson is quoting their eyes, and the number you see is 20. Err, everything that talks about how great he is, is analytics based. It's almost to the point that Severson could be the test case for the analytics movement. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) minor league forward prospects I guess is what your referring to? I don't think they trade many or maybe even any of the young forwards that are playing at this level now. They don't need Severson. Hell Hayes an undrafted guy has more value than any of our forward picks over the last how many years Everyone outside the NHL. And yes. LOL at the idea they don't need Severson. Everyone does. And yea, the Rangers did a great job finding an undrafted gem like Hayes, just like that undrafted McDonagh and undrafted Rick Nash. Where are our scouts on these guys? Err, everything that talks about how great he is, is analytics based. It's almost to the point that Severson could be the test case for the analytics movement. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I assume you're joking here, but I don't need to quote any stats or numbers - I think Severson is a dynamite player, and all you have to do to see that is to watch him. Edited March 3, 2015 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Err, everything that talks about how great he is, is analytics based. It's almost to the point that Severson could be the test case for the analytics movement. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Haven't read it here. I think there are a lot of good advanced stats to prove how well he's been playing, but that seems like an exaggeration about him being the case test. You don't need stats to know how impressive Severson was in his stint, but they didn't hurt him at all. After all, we both know the 13 and 13-14 Leafs along with the 13-14 Avalanche are the test cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I assume you're joking here, but I don't need to quote any stats or numbers - I think Severson is a dynamite player, and all you have to do to see that is to watch him. No, I'm not. Everything that says how great he is is based on things like "tough minutes", zone starts, corsi and the like. I'm not doubting those things are useful, and Severson is probably going to be be a very good. But as I said, one of the top five, perhaps top three defenseman EVER needed a lot more to be part of a consistently good team. The Devils have Larsson, Severson, Cammalleri and Schneider. That's it, including in the minors or in the system one way or the other. Everyone else is replacement level. Lou himself said he tried to do a lot more, and every other team laughed at him. To give you a sense of how bad it is, Zajac is probably a fourth line center on a team like the Rangers. Except maybe perhaps in that snake oil world where everything matters except scoring goals and winning games. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 No, I'm not. Everything that says how great he is is based on things like "tough minutes", zone starts, corsi and the like. I'm not doubting those things are useful, and Severson is probably going to be be a very good. But as I said, one of the top five, perhaps top three defenseman EVER needed a lot more to be part of a consistently good team. The Devils have Larsson, Severson, Cammalleri and Schneider. That's it, including in the minors or in the system one way or the other. Everyone else is replacement level. Lou himself said he tried to do a lot more, and every other team laughed at him. To give you a sense of how bad it is, Zajac is probably a fourth line center on a team like the Rangers. Except maybe perhaps in that snake oil world where everything matters except scoring goals and winning games. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Severson already is very good, that's why I think so highly of him. It's not based on Corsi or zone starts or any of that - it doesn't have to be. The kid shoots the puck a lot for a rookie, he's clearly very good at reading the play, he passes the puck well, he's not getting destroyed physically. You don't know what 'replacement level' means (it means at the level of a player that can be gotten for free at any time) and you don't know what a 4th line center is. Travis Zajac is still a very good player. He just doesn't belong on an NHL power play first unit or a first line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Severson already is very good, that's why I think so highly of him. It's not based on Corsi or zone starts or any of that - it doesn't have to be. The kid shoots the puck a lot for a rookie, he's clearly very good at reading the play, he passes the puck well, he's not getting destroyed physically. You don't know what 'replacement level' means (it means at the level of a player that can be gotten for free at any time) and you don't know what a 4th line center is. Travis Zajac is still a very good player. He just doesn't belong on an NHL power play first unit or a first line. Evaluating Severson as "very good" should be taken with a grain of salt right now. He has only played 30 games with the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This is one area where I could not agree more with Triumph. People are saying "he has only played 30 games." Sure that means something if you haven't seen what you want out of a player yet, but some things just can't be chalked up to a fluke. Severson has displayed (at 20 yrs old) the level of awareness and skill of a top defender. You can't fake those skills or just magically lose them. Be excited, this guy is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 This is one area where I could not agree more with Triumph. People are saying "he has only played 30 games." Sure that means something if you haven't seen what you want out of a player yet, but some things just can't be chalked up to a fluke. Severson has displayed (at 20 yrs old) the level of awareness and skill of a top defender. You can't fake those skills or just magically lose them. Be excited, this guy is good. 30 games is too small of a sample size for me. For every Erik Karlsson and PK Subban there is a Tyler Myers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 30 games is too small of a sample size for me. For every Erik Karlsson and PK Subban there is a Tyler Myers. No, there isn't. There are many more star defenseman than players who look like stars in their initial NHL games but then don't become them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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