New York Mets 2015 Season Thread

['7']

Okay, I probably shouldn't have taken it as such.

 

And re: Wright I can't help but get defensive about him considering he's such a rarity - the homegrown star that's probably going to spend his whole career as a Met.  And even more so one that grew up a Mets fan.  I get what you've said on the hockey board about how we can't get too attached but the odds of that kind of thing are infinitesville, especially after what happened with this franchise re: Doc/Darryl and Seaver.  Not to mention he's all class as you know. That's why I just don't want to bag on the dude even though I have been lately cause I'm tired and cranky from these late postseason games, and he certainly hasn't done the job.

 

Plus until this postseason I felt the whole clutch thing with Wright was way overblown (despite his 2006 postseason) since he did hit over .300 in both September 2007 and September 2008.

 

 

You would get sent to timeout on NYFS for that

 

(well only slightly exaggerating but they really don't like derogatory comments there )

 

 

 

re: Reyes there was a time where I was at least as pro-Reyes if not more so than pro-Wright.  He was colorful and had flair.  2007 changed that for me though, when he got benched repeatedly for not running out grounders and hit .200 in the second half of the season.  Eventually I forgave him and still can't help but like/feel sorry for him even now but he was definitely down a couple notches in my fan book after that.  

 

re: the Wright contract, I'm not even sure if he finishes it out at this rate, if most of what is said about how he needs five hours to prep for every game is true.  It's easy enough to motivate yourself to do that when it's postseason, harder to do in Game #56 in June after two or three years of this.  Especially assuming he's just a .280 hitter with little power going forward a la Mattingly.  And yeah it's hard to walk away from that kind of money but DW's almost certainly going to be taken care of by the Mets post-career and probably be either working at SNY or on the staff, basically whatever he wants to do.

 

 

My sobering thought is that I don't trust ownership to do the right thing in coming years, and they have so many key FA's after this year I can't help but see a team next year that looks suspiciously like the one from early this year.  It almost feels like a one-hit wonder type of thing even with the great pitching and no innings limit drama next year, which is why there feels like more pressure to win now than there should be the closer they get.

 

I was literally permabanned from NYFS for suggesting the Mets retaliate and throw at a batter or team after (I think it was Florida) starting buzzing and then drilling us. But that was too mean a suggestion so they booted me. Then a month later everybody wants Utleys head on a spike.

 

They analyze the game quite well their, but too much "oh well mets lost tip your cap let's go read a book" defeatism on that board.

Edited October 29, 2015 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Has, the good news regarding ownership is that they have no excuses anymore when it comes to not spending money. I'm not saying they have to go crazy, but they have some money coming off, and will have some flexibility. If they let Cespedes walk, I'm absolutely on-board with that...he's a good player who was a huge reason why the Mets got here, but I think he's a one-year wonder who won't ever have another run like this. Let someone else overpay him for a career year...especially with the red flags that have been popping up lately. I think if the Mets re-sign him, by June 2017 we're lamenting that choice. But if the Wilpons just let everybody walk and Sandy goes back to being passive and meek, the fans aren't going to stand for it.

Re: being tired, I have to admit...these playoffs are killing me. I need to be out of bed by 5:40 am...adults like us will deal, but it's sad that most kids will not be allowed (nor should they) to watch these games in their entirety.

[NJDevs4978]

I was literally permabanned from NYFS for suggesting the Mets retaliate and throw at a batter or team after (I think it was Florida) starting buzzing and then drilling us. But that was too mean a suggestion so they booted me. Then a month later everybody wants Utleys head on a spike.

 

They analyze the game quite well their, but too much "oh well mets lost tip your cap let's go read a book" defeatism on that board.

 

lol I figured either you left or got booted.  Even the mere suggestion that they should pitch high and tight to one of the Phillies after Cespedes got hit got me yelled at though I wasn't sent to timeout or anything.  Way back when I was permabanned just for using the term buttbuddy (describing one of the guys that worked for Omar, Bernanzard I think?) but this was several years ago, it seems they've at least loosened up a little since then.

 

They do have good analysis there for the most part but feel like they need to be a milquetoast board cause players and their families read it, or at least that's the general philosophy of the site owner/staff.  Plus it's definitely got the HF-type prospect centric vibe to it.

Edited October 29, 2015 by NJDevs4978

[capo]

I never thought about DW's role with the team after his playing career. To be honest, I didn't really care... it didn't occur to me that he would be looked at in that light. In my head I just think about the wisdom of the guys I grew up rooting for. Not that I haven't rooted for DW. It's definitely different as I get older. When I was a kid the Mets were everything to me. Obviously,into my high school years I was interested in other stuff. And it's funny I work at a school and kids don't root passionately for a player or a team the way we used to. I still idolize Keith and Ronnie, El Sid, Ho Jo, and Doc and Darryl. I loved Piazza but didn't hold him in the same light as the others. So now I understand why people may take it to heart when people bash David. I remember when Keith left the Mets how I didn't want him to go. He was such an intelligent ballplayer. I wanted him to manage in the worst way. Tactically, he would have been great. But, it was time for him to go.

[NJDevs4978]

Keith never wants to work 162 games a year as a broadcaster, he sure as shooting wasn't doing it as a manager lol. Like you he was my guy growing up and I think he would have been good at it if he wanted to do it.

And in that vein I loved how emotional he got when the Mets won the pennant. He's still engaged, it's not just a job for him. Even if he only works like 100 games a year

Edited October 30, 2015 by NJDevs4978

[capo]

Keith never wants to work 162 games a year as a broadcaster, he sure as shooting wasn't doing it as a manager lol. Like you he was my guy growing up and I think he would have been good at it if he wanted to do it.

And in that vein I loved how emotional he got when the Mets won the pennant. He's still engaged, it's not just a job for him. Even if he only works like 100 games a year

I get it. I don't want to work either... but I still love me some Keith. Those Mets teams had some awesome personalities.

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah everyone's just different...Gary Cohen doesn't even want to take innings off.  The one weekend in Tampa he had to take off poor Keith and Ron didn't know what to do with themselves.

['7']

Crowd is so key tonight. It has to be Shea level. Deafening, intimidating, raucous, MEAN. This has to be a powderkeg of noise that the Royals have never heard before.

 

I'm sort of done believing our starting pitching can dominate the Royals in any way. If Noah can go 7 and give up 3, I'll sign for that. Just scatter the hits and hopefully some well hit balls find gloves.

 

DO NOT. Give up early runs. Down 0-2, home game. Cannot let the Royals put up a 2 or 3 spot in the first to take the crowd out of it. Under no circumstances can this happen. We did it to the Cubs and they never got up off the mat

 

I think the layoff did cool us down a bit. The bats are due to start heating up again. Going home should help. And Ventura is just flat out not as good as Cueto or Volquez.

 

A nice momentum turning moment is needed. They got it with a Gordon HR, we need it somehow. Be it a controversial call in our favor, some kind of dust up, an amazing play in the outfield. SOMETHING. The Mets got this immediately in game 3 1986.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaJTPZigRcI

[NJDevs4978]

The meme going around is that the Mets have been too afraid of their fastball cause the Royals are a good hitting fastball team.  Harvey and deGrom tried to throw slop more often than usual and eventually the Royals got to them.  If you're going to go down, go down with YOUR strengths, not being afraid of theirs.  It's not like the Royals haven't had guys like McCullers, Keuchel and Estrada take it to them this postseason.  Or Bumgartner last postseason.

Edited October 30, 2015 by NJDevs4978

['7']

ugh. Sounds like Terry is considering Lagares in center. Cespedes in left...Conforto on the bench. Don't like this move in an NL park. Juan has a horrific .271 OBP against righties. Conforto has hit all 9 of his homers against him

 

For the love of god start Conforto.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I have three main problems with Wright and two of them have nothing to do with him.

1. He's not Jose Reyes. I locked on to Reyes before he even made it to AA. Remember all those rumors about Reyes for Pinella? He was a dynamic ball player and the catalyst for this team and they turned their back on him. Even today, though he might not be as dynamic he has more to offer than David Wright.

2. His albatross contract. I believe part of the reason he got that contract was because of Fred Wilpon's comments. SA certainly knew better and this is not reminiscent of the deals he makes.

3. This one is on him. He's not a good baseball player any more. He's a heck of a guy. He gives wonderful interviews. He's just lost his touch. It's probably the back but there were signs of him breaking down.

 

With regards to each of the above:

 

1.  Thank God he's not Reyes.  Reyes was always a bit overrated, and carried himself as though he was much more of a winner than he really was.  He was also a bit of a loafer (both physically and mentally) and a guy who, like Wright, unfortunately had a way of coming up small in big spots...yet had a way of firing up otherwise dead-in-the-water opponents.  Reyes was a classic frontrunner if there ever was one.  And the Mets were right to turn their backs on him...that contract predictably became the albatross many knew it would, and he's declining fast.  Now he's a mehish hitter (and injury-prone) who doesn't get on base nearly enough, has lost some of his speed (perhaps the most crucial element to his game), and is now considered to be one of the worst fielding shortstops in the game, by several metrics.  It should tell you plenty that a team in contention thought they'd get better by moving him this season.

 

There's a classic Mike Francesa Mets rant from several years ago, and one of the key points of that rant was how Wright and Reyes never ever seem to come up with big hits.  And he was dead-on.  And I thought the Reyes-Wright tandem needed to be broken up, and I was 100% fine with Reyes being allowed to walk (though those who followed him as the Mets' SSs clearly had some issues).

 

2.  Like I said, I would've let Wright walk...I think he's the wrong kind of guy to make your cornerstone player for what counts as big-time money for the Mets, and all he's done since he signed that contract is prove me right...Has is right, no one could really see the spinal stenosis issue coming, and that's unfortunate.  But even now, as Has has shown, Wright is still beloved among many and remains a popular player...part of it is that he was a terrific and sometimes dynamic offensive force from 2005-2008, part of it is that he's been here a long time and is a homegrown Met, and part of it is the guy is very likable, never gets into trouble of any kind or gets embroiled in controversy, and never acts like an a$$hole...performances aside, from a pure personality standpoint, he's a good guy to have around.  I understand why he was kept and signed long-term.  If I was Sandy, I would've tried to deal him prior to his walk year, but I think he was in a very very tough spot.  I think once Sandy decided to say bye-bye to Reyes, it was going to be almost certain that Wright would be back long-term.

 

3.  Something about Citi and Wright never seemed to mesh, and I think the ballpark has flat-out fvcked with his head at times.  What sucks now is that Has is probably right...from here on out, Wright will probably be a .270-.280 hitter who can draw walks to put up a solid OB%, but won't hit for much power, will always be shaky in the clutch, and with his back condition will be just about untradeable.  I'll never forget what Don Mattingly's back problems did to his career (though he still managed to be reasonably productive under the circumstances).  Wright will never be the hitter Mattingly was (that guy almost never struck out...just 444 Ks in 7722 plate appearances), but I think if we can get .270-.280 BA, .340+ OB%, 12-15 HR, 30+ 2B, 70 RBI seasons with something resembling clutch hitting from him over the next few years, with him getting into 70%-80% of the regular season games, I think we have to accept it.  This version of Wright has no chance to live up to his current contract, so it's pointless to bitch about that. 

 

 

And re: Wright I can't help but get defensive about him considering he's such a rarity - the homegrown star that's probably going to spend his whole career as a Met.  And even more so one that grew up a Mets fan.  I get what you've said on the hockey board about how we can't get too attached but the odds of that kind of thing are infinitesville, especially after what happened with this franchise re: Doc/Darryl and Seaver.  Not to mention he's all class as you know. That's why I just don't want to bag on the dude even though I have been lately cause I'm tired and cranky from these late postseason games, and he certainly hasn't done the job.

 

I get being defensive about certain sports figures...I get the same way with Marty and Lou.  Really used to hate it when Devils fans would start shredding Marty near the end (though I'll admit that Marty didn't always do himself any favors with some of his quotes, which sometimes sounded both selfish and delusional).  I think Wright would get much more of a pass with me if he had won something, or at least had done enough not to be part of the problem...I know he hasn't always been surrounded with contending talent through the years and that one guy is never enough on a baseball team to make a difference (at the end of the day, you need talent in different spots and you need a lot of it).  For me, it's just that some guys - some leaders - kind of find that way to persevere and stubbornly put up their numbers and play well even when they're on bad teams full of holes.  It just makes me crazy to hear stuff like "Wright is a leader" or "You can't sit him down, he's David Wright"...it just feels like he's been blown up to be more than he really is at this point.  I want to embrace him, I really do...but he gives me so little to work with on the field...I wish I didn't dread his coming up to plate in those proverbial big spots, but I do...and I've been conditioned to feel that way through years of seeing him swing through 89-mile-an-hour fastballs right down the middle or ground into weak DPs at the worst possible times.  I would love nothing more than for him to come up with a huge hit or go on a tear these next few games and wave his bat at me and say "fvck you CR, I can do it!"  I would love a massive serving of crow followed by a dessert of more crow.  But I have no faith in David...none.  And I wish I did.

 

 

ugh. Sounds like Terry is considering Lagares in center. Cespedes in left...Conforto on the bench. Don't like this move in an NL park. Juan has a horrific .271 OBP against righties. Conforto has hit all 9 of his homers against him

 

For the love of god start Conforto.

 

Lagares doesn't deserve the respect of being an elite defensive CF anymore.  Sad but true. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

ugh. Sounds like Terry is considering Lagares in center. Cespedes in left...Conforto on the bench. Don't like this move in an NL park. Juan has a horrific .271 OBP against righties. Conforto has hit all 9 of his homers against him

For the love of god start Conforto.

Conforto hasn't hit either. Lagares has been better in the playoffs.

[NJDevs4978]

They're sticking with Conforto tonight.  It almost doesn't matter anyway since he's usually out of the game after 2 AB's.  If he was off the bench he'd get one AB instead of two.

[capo]

With regards to each of the above:

1. Thank God he's not Reyes. Reyes was always a bit overrated, and carried himself as though he was much more of a winner than he really was. He was also a bit of a loafer (both physically and mentally) and a guy who, like Wright, unfortunately had a way of coming up small in big spots...yet had a way of firing up otherwise dead-in-the-water opponents. Reyes was a classic frontrunner if there ever was one. And the Mets were right to turn their backs on him...that contract predictably became the albatross many knew it would, and he's declining fast. Now he's a mehish hitter (and injury-prone) who doesn't get on base nearly enough, has lost some of his speed (perhaps the most crucial element to his game), and is now considered to be one of the worst fielding shortstops in the game, by several metrics. It should tell you plenty that a team in contention thought they'd get better by moving him this season.

There's a classic Mike Francesa Mets rant from several years ago, and one of the key points of that rant was how Wright and Reyes never ever seem to come up with big hits. And he was dead-on. And I thought the Reyes-Wright tandem needed to be broken up, and I was 100% fine with Reyes being allowed to walk (though those who followed him as the Mets' SSs clearly had some issues).

2. Like I said, I would've let Wright walk...I think he's the wrong kind of guy to make your cornerstone player for what counts as big-time money for the Mets, and all he's done since he signed that contract is prove me right...Has is right, no one could really see the spinal stenosis issue coming, and that's unfortunate. But even now, as Has has shown, Wright is still beloved among many and remains a popular player...part of it is that he was a terrific and sometimes dynamic offensive force from 2005-2008, part of it is that he's been here a long time and is a homegrown Met, and part of it is the guy is very likable, never gets into trouble of any kind or gets embroiled in controversy, and never acts like an a$$hole...performances aside, from a pure personality standpoint, he's a good guy to have around. I understand why he was kept and signed long-term. If I was Sandy, I would've tried to deal him prior to his walk year, but I think he was in a very very tough spot. I think once Sandy decided to say bye-bye to Reyes, it was going to be almost certain that Wright would be back long-term.

3. Something about Citi and Wright never seemed to mesh, and I think the ballpark has flat-out fvcked with his head at times. What sucks now is that Has is probably right...from here on out, Wright will probably be a .270-.280 hitter who can draw walks to put up a solid OB%, but won't hit for much power, will always be shaky in the clutch, and with his back condition will be just about untradeable. I'll never forget what Don Mattingly's back problems did to his career (though he still managed to be reasonably productive under the circumstances). Wright will never be the hitter Mattingly was (that guy almost never struck out...just 444 Ks in 7722 plate appearances), but I think if we can get .270-.280 BA, .340+ OB%, 12-15 HR, 30+ 2B, 70 RBI seasons with something resembling clutch hitting from him over the next few years, with him getting into 70%-80% of the regular season games, I think we have to accept it. This version of Wright has no chance to live up to his current contract, so it's pointless to bitch about that.

I get being defensive about certain sports figures...I get the same way with Marty and Lou. Really used to hate it when Devils fans would start shredding Marty near the end (though I'll admit that Marty didn't always do himself any favors with some of his quotes, which sometimes sounded both selfish and delusional). I think Wright would get much more of a pass with me if he had won something, or at least had done enough not to be part of the problem...I know he hasn't always been surrounded with contending talent through the years and that one guy is never enough on a baseball team to make a difference (at the end of the day, you need talent in different spots and you need a lot of it). For me, it's just that some guys - some leaders - kind of find that way to persevere and stubbornly put up their numbers and play well even when they're on bad teams full of holes. It just makes me crazy to hear stuff like "Wright is a leader" or "You can't sit him down, he's David Wright"...it just feels like he's been blown up to be more than he really is at this point. I want to embrace him, I really do...but he gives me so little to work with on the field...I wish I didn't dread his coming up to plate in those proverbial big spots, but I do...and I've been conditioned to feel that way through years of seeing him swing through 89-mile-an-hour fastballs right down the middle or ground into weak DPs at the worst possible times. I would love nothing more than for him to come up with a huge hit or go on a tear these next few games and wave his bat at me and say "fvck you CR, I can do it!" I would love a massive serving of crow followed by a dessert of more crow. But I have no faith in David...none. And I wish I did.

Lagares doesn't deserve the respect of being an elite defensive CF anymore. Sad but true.

We're going to have to agree to disagree about the Wright or Reyes question. It's a moot situation but I would say if Reyes' metrics are that off at short the easy fix is to slide him over to 3rd. He can still hit for good average and grab 30+ bags.

I wouldn't say the spinal stenosis was predictable but 2011 was alarming enough not to sign the guy through 2020. I agree with Has that he probably won't make it through the deal but theyre still going to be paying him which is a big deal for this team.

I didn't like Reyes contract either and the structure of it is worse than the contract in its entirety. This is the big reason Toronto wanted rid of him. The Marlins had no intention of keeping him past year 1 and that's why they signed him to it.

If the Rockies called me up the day after the world series and proposed the trade straight up I'd do it in a heartbeat. First off, you shed 3 years worth of 20 mil salary minus 4 mil with the buyout and second Reyes is going to produce better numbers than Wright over that time.

However, Wright has a full no trade so it doesn't really matter. We're stuck with him.

[capo]

TC on Conforto: "Every time he steps in the box I think he's going to put one in the seats."

This is exactly what is wrong with Conforto at the moment. Instead of impressing upon him to go there and have a good at bat they have him thinkin about home runs. As a result, he hits right into the shift every damn time. All we heard about Conforto was how good of hitter he was with some pop, some. Let him go up to plate and think about getting on base... take advantage of that damn shift. Their giving you a free base. Take it!

['7']

Cannot stress this enough...shut them down early. No 1st inning runs Noah

['7']

Ump with a criminal squeeze job on Noah and Zobrist is on 2nd

[NJDevs4978]

And of course sloppiness early, I can already see the meme about how Thor firing one high and tight fired the Royals up

['7']

And now a lucky check swing hit

Well. Umps 1 Mets 0

[NJDevs4978]

Sloppy sloppy sloppy

[capo]

Ump with a criminal squeeze job on Noah and Zobrist is on 2nd

6 god damn strikes!

[capo]

Thor was freaking brilliant exactly the way I wanted this game to start and freaking home plate ump gives the Royals a run and drives up Thor's pitch count.

THEN DUDA, OH FREAKING DUDA!

[NJDevs4978]

Of course it would have been nice if they'd gotten crisper defense that inning though, Zobrist somehow got home from second on two balls that didn't leave the infield.

They don't look ready to play tonight.

['7']

When is the last call that actually went our way?

[capo]

No fvcking way!