New York Mets 2015 Season Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I mean, the Vet was a total dump at that time. But yeah, living in South Jersey it was funny seeing those new "diehard" Phillies fans in the mid 00s.

Oh the Vet was definitely a dump, but although Shea will always hold a special place in my heart, Shea was pretty bad too.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Of course Doofus does nothing there. 

 

Don't let it hit you on the way out Daniel.  Guy is such a moron on the basepaths and in the field.  Forever a costly brainfart waiting to happen.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

A hit-and-run with Jon Niese at the plate Terry?  REALLY?  Guess TC wants to get in the way tonight.  As dumb managers do.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

FLORES IS NOT A MAJOR LEAGUE SS. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Cespedes getting the breaks tonight...maybe that gets him going again.

 

Here comes Flukas to do nothing.  Of course he pops up there. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

No he's not CR, and his buffoonery has been covered up in recent weeks by the offense. But when runs are tight this stuff REALLY matters. We are lucky Freeman didnt hit it into orbit

Frustrating game. We should be up by a lot more, but naturally the Mets heads are not in the game because they think they have a 10 game lead!

['7']

Cant stand Niese. So much moody sulking on the mound

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

No he's not CR, and his buffoonery has been covered up in recent weeks by the offense. But when runs are tight this stuff REALLY matters. We are lucky Freeman didnt hit it into orbit

Frustrating game. We should be up by a lot more, but naturally the Mets heads are not in the game because they think they have a 10 game lead!

 

The other problem is he became a folk hero with the tears...that led people to forget his many limitations (especially defensively).  But this guy (if he's still here) cannot play a single game at SS next season.  You can't be holding your breath every time the ball is hit his way.  The position is too damned important.  They're lucky as hell that Niese didn't give up a dinger there.

 

Yeah, Niese's body language is really hard to take sometimes. 

 

The good news is that the Braves are an extremely forgiving opponent. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Nice knock for Murph. Just wish he could shore up the many weak parts of his game.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

TC showing his robotic tendencies. Reed threw a whopping seven pitches in that seventh inning. Why can't he pitch the 8th?

[NJDevs4978]

Well nice that Niese can still pitch against AAA teams at least.  This is what last night's game could have been with one more inning, oh well.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Well nice that Niese can still pitch against AAA teams at least.  This is what last night's game could have been with one more inning, oh well.

 

Niese also had extra rest (seven days)...the reason the Mets are going to be stuck with him (unless they take a somewhat undesirable player back) is that, in the 10 games he started with "normal" rest (4 days) his numbers are abysmal:  6.96 ERA, 1.656 WHIP.  That is not going to go unnoticed.  But at least he didn't let any innings get away from him, and there were definitely ones that looked like they were headed that way. 

 

Really wish TC would stop being so robotic is his approach with the "big three" in the bullpen.  Reed has thrown 8 and 7 pitches in his last two outings.  Is there some reason why, if Reed has an uber-efficient inning, he can't get the 8th?  Especially if Clip is having a back issue that's hindering his effectiveness?  I understand where TC was coming from to an extent last night (do NOT let a winnable game against a dead-team-walking opponent get away from you under any circumstances), but it still feels like TC is too set in his ways with Reed 7th, Clip 8th, and Familia 9th.  I think he could've gotten an extra inning out of Reed last night. 

 

Boomer really shredding Murph over last night's gaffe...and he should be.  I'm tired of this crap almost being an accepted part of Murph's game. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

As everyone here knows, the magic number is down to 7.  O's - Nats rainout will be played on Thursday.  No more off-days for them.  The Nats remain screwed...all the Mets have to do is win 7 of their remaining 12 games, and nothing the Nats do will be good enough.  The problem remains the same for the Nats...the Mets simply don't have to do very much, and the Nats need to be damned near perfect.  There's just no magic carpet ride story to be written here...the Nats had some nice chances (especially head-to-head) to get something done and they didn't.   

 

As for the REAL remaining race for the Mets...the Dodgers dropped their third straight and are now only a 1/2 game up on the Mets for home-field (the Dodgers' magic number for clinching their division is also 7).  Their schedule is a little bit harder than the Mets', for whatever that's worth. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[thecoffeecake]

The attendance numbers for both the Phillies and the Mets pretty much show the exact same thing:  when the team is winning, the fans show up in droves, and when the team is losing, they don't.  Neither fan base is cut from the "we show up no matter what" cloth...more like "build it and we will come; if it sucks, we'll stay away."  The Mets have shown the ability to draw well over 3 million when they put a good product on the field, but the problem is they haven't shown the ability to build up that window of continual playoff-bound teams; in their history, they've only made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons once.  In 2006-2008 (the Mets' last three seasons in Shea), the Mets drew 3,379,535 in 2006, 3,853,955 in 2007, and 4,042,045 in 2008...and then the run of "That 70s Show" teams began...six seasons of 70-79 wins each year.  They still drew over 3 million in 2009, despite winning just 70 games.  And despite averaging just 76 wins per season over the past six years, they still drew over 2.1 million in each of those years...not awesome by any stretch, but even when there's nothing to get excited about, and even when Sandy and the Wilpons seem to be doing everything they can to give Met fans the collective finger, fans still show up in not-completely awful numbers...if the Mets had a couple of under-2 million seasons recently, I could understand it completely.

 

No one has a spare fvck to give about the Phillies right now...talk to me when they're any good again.  Their records have been dropping lately, and - SURPRISE! - so has their attendance.  Look at 1996-2002...Phillies fans can disappear with the best of them when their team isn't a contender. 

Yea, the Mets drew well in 09 because they opened Ebbets Field II. The difference between the Mets and Phillies is that the Mets play in a market of about 20 million people, and are still middle of the pack with a first place team. The Phillies play in a market not even a quarter of that time and are having serious attendance problems for the first time in a decade and a half fielding the worst team in the majors. When the Phillies are competitive, they're top of the league in attendance. The Mets spent like 3 years drawing well at Shea, and those numbers were largely inflated by Shea's capacity. Yes, just about every city, except maybe Boston (but it's not hard to fill Fenway), is going to see attendance fluctuations with team competitiveness, but Philadelphia is just a different animal than New York. I've spent a lot of time in both markets. Attendance is crap, but you can't go anywhere in the city without seeing Phillies jerseys and hats. People are still talking Phillies, even with football season under way. New York just doesn't work like that. It's a trendy town. The Mets have plenty of die hards, but they're not relevant in the market until they're a first place team. We see the same thing with the Rangers. We're gonna see the same thing with the Islanders before too long. Even now with a first place team, the Mets have barely gotten people out to ball games, playing in the biggest city in the country.

 

And don't get too uppity, Mets fans. It's amazing how quickly you guys forget that you spend one season a decade outside of irrelevancy.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I know you're just here to be a dick CC, but I'll actually humor your abundant stupidity on this one:

 

1)  The Mets were about a .500 team as late as July 24 (49-48) and had almost no offensive life...after their 15-5 start, they had gone through a 34-43 downturn that had a lot of Met fans thinking "Same old Mets."  The fans also had little reason to trust Sandy and the Wilpons.  Sandy finally making some much-needed deals to address some painfully obvious weaknesses vaulted the team into first place seemingly overnight.  Though the Mets had a nice start to the season, it's not like the Mets have had a powerhouse that's led the division wire-to-wire.  They've only recently put up the kind of record (36-17 in their last 53) and shown the kind of play that gets fans excited.  Mets fans have had very little to get excited over the prior six years...they've lost a lot, and they've often lost ugly, and on top of that, the franchise had their share of amateurish and buffoonish moments off the field as well.  Getting the fans back in the building isn't an overnight thing (especially when the ownership isn't trusted by its fans), but if the Mets can become a CONSISTENT playoff contender, the fans will show up to the tune of well over 3 million a year.  They've already proven that. 

 

2)  The Mets don't have the New York market to themselves the way the Phillies do.  There's this other team called the Yankees that has a pretty damned large fanbase and presence of its own, that's gotten plenty more fans through almost constant playoff appearances, and has a very long history around here. 

 

But most importantly:

 

3)  Nothing you're really saying (like the Phillies being a constant presence through fans wearing apparel, etc) is based on any actual facts...it's based on you trying to be an annoying nudge.  I know my share of Met diehards who still wore Mets gear even when the team was a joke in all facets.  The Mets were still a very active topic on the WFAN during their suckage.   

 

We'll get as uppity as we want...get used to the fact that your window of success is an ever-shrinking speck the rear-view mirror, just memories to relive as your team once again goes through an extended period of irrelevance (and the Phillies have absolutely had their share of them throughout their existence...don't YOU get uppity and act like your team has some rich history of winning, with your whopping two World Series victories since 1890...wow, two World Series wins in 125 seasons!  OMG, I wish the Mets could be as awesome as the Phillies have been all these years!).  And just like almost every other fanbase - SURPRISE! - when the Phillies stop winning, the fans stop going. 

 

But if you insist on continuing to come in here to make a complete ass out of yourself, feel free.  I can't promise I'll respond, but as least I can be amused at the never-ending stupidity running rampant in the bottom-feeders that make up the Philadelphia fanbase.  Carry on genius.

[thecoffeecake]

I know you're just here to be a dick CC, but I'll actually humor your abundant stupidity on this one:

 

1)  The Mets were about a .500 team as late as July 24 (49-48) and had almost no offensive life...after their 15-5 start, they had gone through a 34-43 downturn that had a lot of Met fans thinking "Same old Mets."  The fans also had little reason to trust Sandy and the Wilpons.  Sandy finally making some much-needed deals to address some painfully obvious weaknesses vaulted the team into first place seemingly overnight.  Though the Mets had a nice start to the season, it's not like the Mets have had a powerhouse that's led the division wire-to-wire.  They've only recently put up the kind of record (36-17 in their last 53) and shown the kind of play that gets fans excited.  Mets fans have had very little to get excited over the prior six years...they've lost a lot, and they've often lost ugly, and on top of that, the franchise had their share of amateurish and buffoonish moments off the field as well.  Getting the fans back in the building isn't an overnight thing (especially when the ownership isn't trusted by its fans), but if the Mets can become a CONSISTENT playoff contender, the fans will show up to the tune of well over 3 million a year.  They've already proven that. 

 

2)  The Mets don't have the New York market to themselves the way the Phillies do.  There's this other team called the Yankees that has a pretty damned large fanbase and presence of its own, that's gotten plenty more fans through almost constant playoff appearances, and has a very long history around here. 

 

But most importantly:

 

3)  Nothing you're really saying (like the Phillies being a constant presence through fans wearing apparel, etc) is based on any actual facts...it's based on you trying to be an annoying nudge.  I know my share of Met diehards who still wore Mets gear even when the team was a joke in all facets.  The Mets were still a very active topic on the WFAN during their suckage.   

 

We'll get as uppity as we want...get used to the fact that your window of success is an ever-shrinking speck the rear-view mirror, just memories to relive as your team once again goes through an extended period of irrelevance (and the Phillies have absolutely had their share of them throughout their existence...don't YOU get uppity and act like your team has some rich history of winning, with your whopping two World Series victories since 1890...wow, two World Series wins in 125 seasons!  OMG, I wish the Mets could be as awesome as the Phillies have been all these years!).  And just like almost every other fanbase - SURPRISE! - when the Phillies stop winning, the fans stop going. 

 

But if you insist on continuing to come in here to make a complete ass out of yourself, feel free.  I can't promise I'll respond, but as least I can be amused at the never-ending stupidity running rampant in the bottom-feeders that make up the Philadelphia fanbase.  Carry on genius.

1. I don't really know how to respond to this. You're making excuses as to why a .500 team playing in New York City can't get fans to the ballpark.

 

2. The Mets share a market of 20.1 million people and the Phillies have a market of 6 million to themselves. Even if we're assuming every person in the NY metro pick one of the Yankees or Mets and only attend their games and buy their merchandise (and we know that's not true; plenty of people support both teams [not the diehards, of course]). You are right, the Yankees have a bigger share of the market, but in a city like New York, a first place team is a first place team. When the Yanks are crap and the Mets aren't, you know as well as I do who more New Yorkers identify with.

 

3. You're absolutely right. My anecdotal evidence isn't based on numbers. That's why it's called anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is an extremely important aspect of social research. Participant observations are a part of academic research for a reason. What I've observed in these respective cities is that the Mets are virtually invisible when they aren't a great team, and the Phillies always have people wearing their gear, have their games on in bars/in public, etc. You get tons of Phillies talk on WIP and the Fanatic down here, too. And 660 is a complete joke, so nothing they do validates anything for me. If I hung on Steve Sommer's every word like Mets fans do, I'd be lobbying for the Devils move to Quebec. I'm not trying to blindly defend the Phils here, the Devils have almost no visibility whether the team is good or bad (hopefully this new era will see a monumental increase in marketing; another conversation). And you're right about there being Mets die hards who represent every year. And I'd certainly argue that although the Yankees have an enormous following of casual fans, Mets die hards are definitely the stronger of the two.

 

I have an incredible amount of respect for your hockey knowledge, and especially you're knowledge of Devils history; maybe baseball just isn't your strong-suit.

 

The Philadelphia Phillies were founded in 1883, 7 years after the National League was founded. Philadelphia was awarded a club after the Worcester, MA team either folded, or was expelled by the league, I don't remember which. There was a sort of world series in the 1880's and into the 1890's, with the pennant winners of the National League playing the American Association champions. These series, however, are not recognized by Major League Baseball's records, even though the American Association is recognized as a "major league", and players' statistics from the AA are recognized as major league performance. The AA collapsed in 1891 (a few of the teams were absorbed by the NL), and after the NL existed as the only major league until 1901, when the American League was founded, the first "official" World Series took place in 1903, with Boston of the American League taking the first world championship over Pittsburgh of the National League. After the NL refused to participate in 1904, the World Series has taken place every year since 1905, with the exception of the 1994 lockout.

 

So, what you meant to say was that the Phillies have won two World Series since 1903, and only seven National League pennants since 1883. Phillies fans are well aware and proud of our century and a half long period of futility. What's absurd is Mets fans saying things like "talk to me when your team is relevant" the one time a decade they're fielding an over .500 team.

Edited September 22, 2015 by thecoffeecake

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Re:  1), I will explain (though I have a strong hunch you either won't understand or won't try to):

 

First, you have to understand that there is a serious disconnect between the Met fanbase and the ownership, and this is not a recent development.  Fans don't trust these owners to do right by them.  The WIlpons have, at various times, come off as clueless, out-of-touch, amateurish, clownish, arrogant, and cheap (the "cheap" label hasn't always been accurate, as they've often been compared unfairly to the Yankees when it comes to spending, but it has on occasion felt like this franchise hasn't been willing to go as far as it should to bring in talent...the Vladimir Guerrero fiasco is a great example of this).  The Wilpons managed to completely fvck up the opening of a brand-new ballpark...Freddy thought a ballpark that pays more homage to the fvcking Brooklyn Dodgers than to THE TEAM THAT ACTUALLY PLAYS THERE was a stroke of genius.  Think about this:  there was actually Dodger T-shirts available in the fan shops in Citi.  They named the fvcking rotunda after a player who never appeared in a single game for the Mets...I understand how important he was in major league baseball history, but the fact is that the ballpark didn't feel like the Mets' home one bit...Citi actually had some fans missing Shea, which for all of its flaws and age was unmistakably all Mets.   

 

The Wilpons did recover somewhat with the addition of the Mets Hall of Fame and some other touches, but the fact remains that the Wilpons don't seem to know what to do until they severely screw something up, then have to be shown what they did wrong and how to correct it.  A Mets Hall of Fame should've been a friggin' no-brainer from Day 1.  Dwight Gooden signed a wall in one of the restaurants...and those idiots (through Jay Horowitz) made it sound like Gooden was vandalizing the stadium.  There's been too many times when they've come off as almost adversarial to their own fan base, like I've said, Sandy has been a big part of that. 

 

The plan the Mets and Sandy were putting out there was that 2014 was going to be the year where they'd start to make moves that didn't consist of them sifting through bargain bins.  Well, 2014 turned out to be 2013 Part Deux, where guys who had been floundering for a number of years were getting yet another chance...accountability with the Mets has been in short supply for a number of season here.  Harvey being out for the season clearly derailed 2014, but it didn't seem like Sandy was trying terribly hard to expedite the process...to many Mets fans, it almost felt like Harvey's injury was a convenient excuse for Sandy to not do a whole hell of a lot (he did bring in Granderson and Colon). 

 

So now that takes us to 2015.  The team clearly has weaknesses in its lineup, but in what appears to be more bargain-hunting, Sandy brings in Michael Cuddyer and John Mayberry Jr.  We knew some good arms would hopefully be coming up later in the year (Syndergaard and Matz would in time), but also knew the offense would be a serious concern.

 

So for the first several months of the season, we watch as good outing after good outing by the Mets' starting pitchers are wasted.  We watch as AAAA player after AAAA player (who we all know aren't any good) are shuffled up and down and around; in one game, the Mets fielded a team that has its #3 and #4 hitters batting well under .200.  Game after game we watch as Sandy doesn't appear to be even attempting to bring in a decent bat, even though it's obvious that the Mets desperately need SOMETHING.  Media and fans alike felt that Sandy was going to let the 2015 Mets die on the vine, and Sandy's often condescending and arrogant responses did nothing to quell the growing feeling that Sandy almost couldn't be bothered to make the moves needed to take the Mets to the next level.  This was made more aggravating by the fact that the Nationals couldn't seem to get their acts together...the division was clearly wide-open and ripe for the taking.

 

Sandy finally acted...but you have to keep in mind that no one really saw any of his moves coming.  Sandy's moves have definitely earned him a lot of currency for now...but fans still don't trust the Wilpons.  Many of them feel that most of the players Sandy acquired (many free agents-to-be) won't be brought back.  If Cespedes walks, a lot of fans will think "Same old Wilpons, fvcking cheapskates", and feel like the Wilpons refuse to truly invest in the team.  If Cespedes is re-signed, that will earn back a lot of goodwill. 

 

If the Mets build off their playoff appearance with a team that hasn't taken too many personnel hits and looks like a contender right out of the gate, then you will see attendance spike right from the start (remember, the 2015 Mets were full of question marks coming out of spring training...the rotation was an aging Colon, deGrom, a recovering from Tommy John surgery Matt Harvey, Niese (always inconsistent), and Gee (coming off a lousy second half in 2014).  No one was sure if or when Syndergaard and/or Matz would come up and succeed.  Or if Familia would be a good major-league closer (he started for much of his minor league career). 

 

Basically, there's legitimate reasons why Mets fans didn't flock right out to see a .500ish ballclub.  You might call them excuses, so be it. 

 

As for "anecdotal evidence"...you are biased and agenda-driven (you came into this thread to do little more than to tweak Mets fans) and are clearly going to try to slant whatever "evidence" you claim you have to try to support the Phillies.  I don't think the Phillie fanbase as a whole is any more dedicated than Mets fans.  I can find plenty of diehards in both fanbases who wear the gear and passionately follow their respective teams no matter what.  I've been to several Yankee-Mets games (wearing one of my Mets jerseys) in Yankee Stadiums when the Yanks were clearly the superior team, and I had plenty of company who weren't shy about showing their allegiance; I don't agree with the invisibility crack at all.  And Mets fans hardly hang on Steve Somers' every word...that's just you trying to be funny I guess (and failing).

 

Re:  MLB history...I know the Mets' history very well.  I'm not a huge league historian, and don't pretend to be, though I'm familiar with many players' achievements from the "oldern days", and enjoy reading baseball tomes (such as Ball Four).  I don't know all of the Phillies' history, and frankly I don't give a sh!t about it...but what I do know is that it's as unspectacular as the Mets', filled with extended stretches of ineptness and irrelevance.  And yeah, I think it's kind of silly for you to come in here to try to start sh!t when your team is currently in a serious downturn and has been roundly spanked by the Mets time and time again this season.  What's the point?  If the Mets and Phillies were battling for something, I'd get it.   

Edited September 23, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Nats losing 4-1, Mets losing 4-1. Mets' bats have really died in this homestand. At least they go to a couple of bandboxes on their final road trip.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Seems like the Mets' pitchers are giving up a lot of two-strike hits lately.

[NJDevs4978]

Even Clippard's days off haven't seemed to help much.  I'd hate for our three reliable pitchers in the pen to become two but it's getting there fast.

[NJDevs4978]

Oy vey...they still would have had a chance at 4-2 with Vizcaino who they tatooed in Atlanta but Clippard poured gasoline on the fire.  It's definitely DEFCON 2 for him.  At least the Mets are getting help from the O's right now.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Damn Clip...might have to give Reed a shot at the 8th inning soon.

Magic number down to 6.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[thecoffeecake]

Re:  1), I will explain (though I have a strong hunch you either won't understand or won't try to):

 

First, you have to understand that there is a serious disconnect between the Met fanbase and the ownership, and this is not a recent development.  Fans don't trust these owners to do right by them.  The WIlpons have, at various times, come off as clueless, out-of-touch, amateurish, clownish, arrogant, and cheap (the "cheap" label hasn't always been accurate, as they've often been compared unfairly to the Yankees when it comes to spending, but it has on occasion felt like this franchise hasn't been willing to go as far as it should to bring in talent...the Vladimir Guerrero fiasco is a great example of this).  The Wilpons managed to completely fvck up the opening of a brand-new ballpark...Freddy thought a ballpark that pays more homage to the fvcking Brooklyn Dodgers than to THE TEAM THAT ACTUALLY PLAYS THERE was a stroke of genius.  Think about this:  there was actually Dodger T-shirts available in the fan shops in Citi.  They named the fvcking rotunda after a player who never appeared in a single game for the Mets...I understand how important he was in major league baseball history, but the fact is that the ballpark didn't feel like the Mets' home one bit...Citi actually had some fans missing Shea, which for all of its flaws and age was unmistakably all Mets.   

 

The Wilpons did recover somewhat with the addition of the Mets Hall of Fame and some other touches, but the fact remains that the Wilpons don't seem to know what to do until they severely screw something up, then have to be shown what they did wrong and how to correct it.  A Mets Hall of Fame should've been a friggin' no-brainer from Day 1.  Dwight Gooden signed a wall in one of the restaurants...and those idiots (through Jay Horowitz) made it sound like Gooden was vandalizing the stadium.  There's been too many times when they've come off as almost adversarial to their own fan base, like I've said, Sandy has been a big part of that. 

 

The plan the Mets and Sandy were putting out there was that 2014 was going to be the year where they'd start to make moves that didn't consist of them sifting through bargain bins.  Well, 2014 turned out to be 2013 Part Deux, where guys who had been floundering for a number of years were getting yet another chance...accountability with the Mets has been in short supply for a number of season here.  Harvey being out for the season clearly derailed 2014, but it didn't seem like Sandy was trying terribly hard to expedite the process...to many Mets fans, it almost felt like Harvey's injury was a convenient excuse for Sandy to not do a whole hell of a lot (he did bring in Granderson and Colon). 

 

So now that takes us to 2015.  The team clearly has weaknesses in its lineup, but in what appears to be more bargain-hunting, Sandy brings in Michael Cuddyer and John Mayberry Jr.  We knew some good arms would hopefully be coming up later in the year (Syndergaard and Matz would in time), but also knew the offense would be a serious concern.

 

So for the first several months of the season, we watch as good outing after good outing by the Mets' starting pitchers are wasted.  We watch as AAAA player after AAAA player (who we all know aren't any good) are shuffled up and down and around; in one game, the Mets fielded a team that has its #3 and #4 hitters batting well under .200.  Game after game we watch as Sandy doesn't appear to be even attempting to bring in a decent bat, even though it's obvious that the Mets desperately need SOMETHING.  Media and fans alike felt that Sandy was going to let the 2015 Mets die on the vine, and Sandy's often condescending and arrogant responses did nothing to quell the growing feeling that Sandy almost couldn't be bothered to make the moves needed to take the Mets to the next level.  This was made more aggravating by the fact that the Nationals couldn't seem to get their acts together...the division was clearly wide-open and ripe for the taking.

 

Sandy finally acted...but you have to keep in mind that no one really saw any of his moves coming.  Sandy's moves have definitely earned him a lot of currency for now...but fans still don't trust the Wilpons.  Many of them feel that most of the players Sandy acquired (many free agents-to-be) won't be brought back.  If Cespedes walks, a lot of fans will think "Same old Wilpons, fvcking cheapskates", and feel like the Wilpons refuse to truly invest in the team.  If Cespedes is re-signed, that will earn back a lot of goodwill. 

 

If the Mets build off their playoff appearance with a team that hasn't taken too many personnel hits and looks like a contender right out of the gate, then you will see attendance spike right from the start (remember, the 2015 Mets were full of question marks coming out of spring training...the rotation was an aging Colon, deGrom, a recovering from Tommy John surgery Matt Harvey, Niese (always inconsistent), and Gee (coming off a lousy second half in 2014).  No one was sure if or when Syndergaard and/or Matz would come up and succeed.  Or if Familia would be a good major-league closer (he started for much of his minor league career). 

 

Basically, there's legitimate reasons why Mets fans didn't flock right out to see a .500ish ballclub.  You might call them excuses, so be it. 

 

As for "anecdotal evidence"...you are biased and agenda-driven (you came into this thread to do little more than to tweak Mets fans) and are clearly going to try to slant whatever "evidence" you claim you have to try to support the Phillies.  I don't think the Phillie fanbase as a whole is any more dedicated than Mets fans.  I can find plenty of diehards in both fanbases who wear the gear and passionately follow their respective teams no matter what.  I've been to several Yankee-Mets games (wearing one of my Mets jerseys) in Yankee Stadiums when the Yanks were clearly the superior team, and I had plenty of company who weren't shy about showing their allegiance; I don't agree with the invisibility crack at all.  And Mets fans hardly hang on Steve Somers' every word...that's just you trying to be funny I guess (and failing).

 

Re:  MLB history...I know the Mets' history very well.  I'm not a huge league historian, and don't pretend to be, though I'm familiar with many players' achievements from the "oldern days", and enjoy reading baseball tomes (such as Ball Four).  I don't know all of the Phillies' history, and frankly I don't give a sh!t about it...but what I do know is that it's as unspectacular as the Mets', filled with extended stretches of ineptness and irrelevance.  And yeah, I think it's kind of silly for you to come in here to try to start sh!t when your team is currently in a serious downturn and has been roundly spanked by the Mets time and time again this season.  What's the point?  If the Mets and Phillies were battling for something, I'd get it.   

Every fanbase has garbage they deal with. And yes, it's really sh!tty that the Mets play in a stadium designed for a team they were meant to replace, but just never could. It's sh!tty that if the league announced tomorrow they were expanding to Brooklyn, Wilpon would sell the Mets to the first bidder and never look back, and that SNY is constantly replaying old Dodgers documentaries. It's sh!tty that Sandy Alderson has constantly mismanaged a team that has the ability to spend with anybody. You know what else is sh!tty? Amaro giving out legacy contracts to half a dozen aging stars, and putting nothing into development. The A's seemingly having no viable options for a new stadium, and being blocked from moving to San Jose because of a good-will gesture they made to the Giants 25 years ago. It's sh!tty that the Angels once again are just another LA team. It's sh!tty the Rays somehow put together a competitive team every year and are stuck in a big hockey stadium. Every fan base deals with things like this at one time or another.

 

I'm not saying the Mets don't have great die hards. Every team does. The Rays, the DBacks, the Marlins, they all have them. The difference is the average casual fan disappears when the Mets aren't competitive, and when they are competitive, everyone acts like they've been around since day one. And they're the most obnoxious people in the world. And that's why everyone hates Mets fans. They shut their mouths and crawl back into their holes (aka, swap their Mets gear for Yankees gear) the other 9 years of the decade. That's the nature of New York sports. The Mets fan base (along with every fan base of New York teams) just lacks an authenticity. It doesn't feel real. It becomes the thing to do. And as much as I respect the Giants organization, and their fans are very nice and welcoming, I feel the same way about that fan base.They go out in their brand new Posey jerseys, drink at the fancy bars around AT&T, show up in the third inning, leave in the seventh, because it's the thing to do in San Francisco. Am I supposed to be impressed that you and other Mets fans went to Yankee Stadium in Mets stuff and vocalized your allegiance?

 

I am certainly biased, but I am in no way agenda driven. I have lived all of my life in the New York and Philadelphia sports markets. And I've spent a good chunk of my life in the Boston sports market (I'm the first one in the family born outside of New Hampshire). I definitely have a good idea what these markets are about, what the fans are like. I've formed these opinions over a lifetime. I hate the Bruins. I hate the Celtics. I really don't much care for the Red Sox, but I have a ton of respect for sports fans in Boston. I have a lot of respect for Baltimore and Buffalo sports fans. New York, Washington, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, LA, I definitely don't have the same kind of respect for.

 

Like I said, Philadelphia is just a different animal than New York. The Phillies mean exponentially more to Philadelphia than the Mets or Yankees do to New York. That's not an agenda I came to push (and I'm not the one that started the relevancy debate), it's just how it is.

 

Again, I and every Phillies fan recognizes that the Phillies are baseball's last place team. No team in baseball's beautiful history has been so consistently terrible. But I wasn't the one who said "talk to me when your team is winning", but I'll be sure to remind you of that next year when the Mets are back to .500 ball and New York suddenly doesn't remember the NL ever tried to replace the Dodgers.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Should've just ignored you coffee. Your team being irrelevant clearly hurts you, so now I guess you have to try to bring down Mets fans with a bunch of falsehoods to make yourself feel better about your team. So sad and pathetic. Go try to get attention somewhere else. See you when the Phillies matter again.

['7']

I mean seriously, this is just desperate flailing. The Phillies are near Marlins level of irrelevancy now.

 

And fwiw I don't recall any Dodger documentaries on SNY, nor did the Wilpons try to buy the Dodgers when they were for sale...so what you're yammering about I don't know. The Dodgers left during the 50's and nobody remembers or cares anymore. But...keep watching the Mets network to fuel your obsession if you feel any better. Hope you get to go to a game at Citi Field South next week when the Mets show up in Philly

 

The Phillies mean nothing to Philadelphia. The Eagles and Flyers do

Edited September 23, 2015 by '7'