ESPN 30 for 30 - Of Miracles and Men

[Devils Dose]

I just finished watching this program on ESPN, and it was very interesting.  It's about the the side of the Miracle on Ice story that we usually don't hear, the Soviet team's story.  They went from the foundation of the Soviet program in Stalin's time, through the aftermath of the 1980 defeat and players eventually coming to the NHL.  There was a particularly long part towards the end about Fetisov trying to be allowed to play in the NHL, and including much commentary from Lou.

 

They're re-airing the program right now on ESPN2 and at some hellish times this week, so fire up the DVRs.

 

edit: there's a website http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=ofmiraclesandmen

Edited February 9, 2015 by Devils Dose

[NJDevs4978]

The story about Kharlamov, jesus freaking christ I had no idea.

 

I wonder why all the stories are coming out now (this and the Red Army movie too)...the 35th anniversary?  Or maybe cause Tihkonov passed recently.  Good grief, to say he was a hard-*** is actually underselling it.

 

And yeah the stuff about Lou and Slava coming to the NHL was good, loved the line about how he realized he was talking to himself when trying to reason with Tihkonov.

Edited February 9, 2015 by NJDevs4978

[Devils Dose]

  Or maybe cause Tihkonov passed recently.  Good grief, to say he was a hard-*** is actually underselling it.

 

I know, right?  It's like, whereas we get to learn while watching this that his players all had real personalities, he ends up pretty much embodying every negative stereotype about Soviet hockey there is.

[thefiestygoat]

Another awesome 30 for 30. I always knew how dominant the Soviets were and the general history of the team but this documentary taught me a lot. First, I never knew the influence bandy had on Soviet hockey.

Secondly, I am a bit embarrassed to not have known a single thing about Anatoli Tarasov. What a fascinating man. I've just spent some time reading articles on him. Definitely going to try and get a copy of the book "Tarasov - The Father of Russian Hockey".

I also didn't know much about Valeri Kharlamov so it was interesting to learn about him.

The whole Slava Fetisov saga was interesting to learn more about. I just started watching hockey in 93-94 so I remember him playing for the Devils and as I got older, knew it wasn't an easy path for him. Really cool to see him and Lou comment on their meetings and communications. Gotta love Lou's determination.

Really can't wait to see the Red Army film.

[redruM]

DVR'd it last night, hope to watch it later,....

[ATLL765]

In case anyone's up at this hour, it's airing again in 30 mins at 1am on ESPN2.

[mxm262]

You can find it on youtube as well now. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmdb3PkGLd0

[StarDew]

I watched it last night.  It was nice to see something from the perspective of the Russian players.  Watching how Fetisov opened the door for other Russian players expanded from what was reported in the US.  I liked how Fetisov and his daughter returned to the Lake Placid arena where the Miracle on Ice was played.  I forgot what Lou looked like with hair.   Overall, a really good show.

[William D'Aquila]

Would love for Slava to coach us one day.

[Matteau#32]

Great piece.  I watched it on You Tube earlier this week, should be up on Net Flix soon if it is not already.  Knew Kharlamov died in a car accident very young.  Didn't realize it was the day the Soviets landed in Winnipeg for the Canada Cup.  Story I had heard was Kharlamov knew there was something wrong with his car, was asking Tikhonov for a new one and Tikhonov was just being a prick.  Also didn't realize that guys like Mikhailov were cut from the national team after the 80 Olympics.

 

I had heard about Fetisov asking to go to the NHL and being threatened with Siberia.  Always thought though that was in the mid-80s.  I had heard for years about the falling out between Fetisov and Kasatanov.  Also heard that the whole team hated Kasatanov thinking he was a spy for Tikhonov.  Wished they got into that more, rather than just the briefing.  Had to have been weird for them on the Devils.  Only 2 Russians on the team and they didn't talk to each other.

 

Also, this really shows that Fetisov really is a huge hypocrite.  He was in the middle of the rift between the Russian Federation and the IIHF over the NHL transfer agreement, which is contrary to everything he stood for as a player.

[DevsMan84]

Great piece.  I watched it on You Tube earlier this week, should be up on Net Flix soon if it is not already.  Knew Kharlamov died in a car accident very young.  Didn't realize it was the day the Soviets landed in Winnipeg for the Canada Cup.  Story I had heard was Kharlamov knew there was something wrong with his car, was asking Tikhonov for a new one and Tikhonov was just being a prick.  Also didn't realize that guys like Mikhailov were cut from the national team after the 80 Olympics.

 

I had heard about Fetisov asking to go to the NHL and being threatened with Siberia.  Always thought though that was in the mid-80s.  I had heard for years about the falling out between Fetisov and Kasatanov.  Also heard that the whole team hated Kasatanov thinking he was a spy for Tikhonov.  Wished they got into that more, rather than just the briefing.  Had to have been weird for them on the Devils.  Only 2 Russians on the team and they didn't talk to each other.

 

Also, this really shows that Fetisov really is a huge hypocrite.  He was in the middle of the rift between the Russian Federation and the IIHF over the NHL transfer agreement, which is contrary to everything he stood for as a player.

 

Chico in one his books wrote about that.  He said while it was obvious they didn't like each other, they were still professional in their dealings.  At team dinners they would just sit at opposite ends of the table and that's really it.  They never got into any fights or arguments or anything like that, they would just avoid each other off the ice and that's it.

 

He also said that while Fetisov was more personable and talkative, Kasatanov was much more quiet and kept to himself. 

[Jimmy Leeds]

Shame Slava didn't win his Cup with the Devs. I still picture him turning his head to the ice in disgust when they lost in '94. He should have been the first Russian to hoist it.

 

Then seeing him on the losing side in '95 was tough because he is/was a Devil.

 

Amazing what happened between him and Kasatonov and that they were paired together for so long on the Devs after their breakdown. I knew at the time they didn't speak to eachother, but I wasn't privy to the real story.

You could tell Slava is still hurt by what Kasatonov did to him, just when he needed him most.

[roomtemp]

I did find it funny how after talking about the hardships to get Slava over here and how they embraced like brothers that Lou eventually traded him.

[DevsMan84]

Shame Slava didn't win his Cup with the Devs. I still picture him turning his head to the ice in disgust when they lost in '94. He should have been the first Russian to hoist it.

 

Then seeing him on the losing side in '95 was tough because he is/was a Devil.

 

Amazing what happened between him and Kasatonov and that they were paired together for so long on the Devs after their breakdown. I knew at the time they didn't speak to eachother, but I wasn't privy to the real story.

You could tell Slava is still hurt by what Kasatonov did to him, just when he needed him most.

 

To be fair, Slava's actions on that play in 94 is one of the direct reasons Matteau was able to score on that play.

 

But that is another story.

[Devil Dan 56]

To be fair, Slava's actions on that play in 94 is one of the direct reasons Matteau was able to score on that play.

But that is another story.

This. But such a shame to see him get so close 2 years in a row before finally getting it

[Jimmy Leeds]

Maybe. He did try to go cross ice because there was a Ranger right in front of him by the blue line, but to be fair, it did hit a leg..........

 

.........ugh.............just thinking about it still makes me nauseous

[Matteau#32]

IIRC, Fetisov came over for the 88-89 season and Kasatanov 89-90?  Knowing there was an issue, wonder if Lamoriello ever tried to trade Kasatanov's rights or if he consulted with Fetisov about whether they could co-exist on the same team over here.

[DevsMan84]

IIRC, Fetisov came over for the 88-89 season and Kasatanov 89-90?  Knowing there was an issue, wonder if Lamoriello ever tried to trade Kasatanov's rights or if he consulted with Fetisov about whether they could co-exist on the same team over here.

 

Honestly, either way I don't think Lou would have cared.  He just does what he does.

[MadDog2020]

This was excellent, as all of the 30-for-30's have been. Here is an interesting piece on the Fetisov-Kasatonov feud from Brooks: http://nypost.com/2015/01/24/from-ussr-best-buds-to-nhl-enemies-how-politics-divided-2-ex-devils/

[MDPucks]

Just watched "Of Miracles and Men" and also caught "Red Army" a couple of weeks ago in a theater in DC.  I must say that I enjoyed the ESPN piece more but "Red Army" got more into the X's and O's of the Soviet hockey system and more to the ugliness of the KGB's control of the players.  In both Tikanov is the villain basically as the totalitarian cynic Joseph Stalin of Soviet hockey and original Soviet coach Anatoli Tarasov is the romantic communist Leon Trotsky type  (for you history nerds).   What's interesting about "Red Army" is they mentioned in the transition to the NHL with the Devils that their head coach John Cunniff hated the Russians and according to Slava made the transition hard for the Russian players.  "Red Army" also mentions how "system hockey" dominated Soviet hockey making the transition tougher for Russians past their prime and/or those not with high end offensive talent (I.E. Mogilny, Federov, Bure).  These players had a hard time adapting to the North American soloist style of game that persisted in those days.

 

When Slava came to the Devils he was well past his prime and the old Soviet system had run him into the ground just as it had Tretiak.  He was a good steady defenseman with the Devils but never was the great he was with the old Red Army team.  If he had come to the Devils 82-87 he was basically a combo of Nick Lindstrom and Bryan Leetch things might have been different.  Outside of 1990 when the Devils had a good team that was killed by sh!tty Sean Burke's goaltending those teams Slava played for were bad-mediocre teams that barely scratched into the playoffs only to get waxed in the 1st round.  When he was traded joining Detroit revitalized his career playing system hockey again with the "Russian 5" and Yzerman (along with Shanahan who finally gave Detroit the balls they were missing in 1995 and 1996).

 

What I really think is amazing is the coaching staff behind the 2000 Devils team with both Larry Robinson and Slava behind the bench hugging after Arnott potted the overtime winner.

[Matteau#32]

 "Red Army" also mentions how "system hockey" dominated Soviet hockey making the transition tougher for Russians past their prime and/or those not with high end offensive talent (I.E. Mogilny, Federov, Bure).  These players had a hard time adapting to the North American soloist style of game that persisted in those days.

Are you saying Bure, Federov, and Mogilny did not have top-end offensive talent?

[MDPucks]

Are you saying Bure, Federov, and Mogilny did not have top-end offensive talent?

No I'm saying the opposite.  Those guys were all young, offensively dynamic, and unspoiled by Tikanov.  Slava was solid but his offensive skills were mostly used-up by the time he was released by the Soviet Army.

 

Tretiak retired at 32 years old and lost all zeal to continue playing for the Red Army.  Imagine how different history would have been if he had been released to play in Montreal after the 1984 Olympics as he had been promised by the Kremlin?  Perhaps Montreal wins their 1986 cup with Tretiak in net instead of a rookie named Patrick Roy?  Imagine Patrick Roy getting traded to a good playoff-type team of the era that seriously needed a goaltender (Philly?, Washington?, Chicago?, St. Louis?, Hartford?) in 1986 or 87?

[Matteau#32]

Oh ok, got it.  I agree on Tretiak.  I knew he had retired before the 87 Canada Cup, didn't realize until recently he didn't play in the 84 Canada Cup.  One thing I have never seen mentioned is what happened to these guys after they retired.  They were still living under communist rule.  Obviously not making as much money as pro athletes over here  Other thing, is did they need to get approval/permission to retire?  

 

Are you sure about Tretiak being promised to go to Montreal? The show mentioned that the guys didn't even know they were drafted by NHL teams.  Not sure he would have made much of a difference for Montreal.  Remember, a 32 year old athlete in 1984 was MUCH different than a 32 year old athlete in 2015.  He may have had 2-3 years left at most.  Considering Roy was a relative unknown before the 86 play-offs, he likely wouldn't have been dealt.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Matteau#32

[MDPucks]

Oh ok, got it.  I agree on Tretiak.  I knew he had retired before the 87 Canada Cup, didn't realize until recently he didn't play in the 84 Canada Cup.  One thing I have never seen mentioned is what happened to these guys after they retired.  They were still living under communist rule.  Obviously not making as much money as pro athletes over here  Other thing, is did they need to get approval/permission to retire?  

 

Are you sure about Tretiak being promised to go to Montreal? The show mentioned that the guys didn't even know they were drafted by NHL teams.  Not sure he would have made much of a difference for Montreal.  Remember, a 32 year old athlete in 1984 was MUCH different than a 32 year old athlete in 2015.  He may have had 2-3 years left at most.  Considering Roy was a relative unknown before the 86 play-offs, he likely wouldn't have been dealt.

 

I remember hearing that Tretiak was told by "The Kremlin" that he'd "probably get to go play in Montreal".  Now that could have been some low-level people in the Politbureau (and as we know now it took the Defense Chief's blessing to release Fetisov so how credible could that carrot be?).  I disagree with age in terms of goaltenders in the early 30's.  While the likes of Bobby Orr and other great skaters had their careers murdered by leg injuries and butcher surgical techniques of the times, most great goaltenders enjoyed careers lasting into their late-30's/early 40's thanks to staying away from the 60's-70's hackery. Jacques Plante, Terry Sawchuck, Johnny Bower, Tony Esposito, Glenn Hall, Gump Worsley, Billy Smith, Chico Resch all enjoyed long careers.  Even goaltenders one or two levels below those all time greats did as well:  Mike Liut, Greg Millen, Glen Hanlon, Pete Peters, etc.