Insulting fans' intelligence

[Zubie#8]

Now we have Devils fans calling the 2011-12 run a fluke. Lou just can't win. 

 

Let's misremember things like the Devils having 48 wins (6th), 26.8 SA/GP (2nd - but only .1 shots behind the Blues),  a .421 winning percentage when trailing after the 1st period (3rd), 12 shootout wins (1st), a .649 W% in 1 goal games (2nd) 15 shorthanded goals (1st), and an 89.6 PK%: the best PK in NHL history (only 27 fvcking PPGA!). 

 

The only things that team really did bad were faceoffs (29th) and blocked shots (30th) and both of those stat categories are questionable in terms of importance. We also may have only taken 27.5 S/G (27th) but we had an oiSH% of 9.6 (7th). And our poor FF for and CF for numbers at even strength were offset by our excellent FA and CA numbers. I suppose we could have controlled the puck a bit more though.

I wish we had another chance with that roster. Such a fun season. 

[Derek21]

2011-12 wasn't a fluke because there is no such thing. Even if the Devils beat us, it was due to having a deeper roster. Lamoriello also made two good moves picking up Carter off waivers. He was huge in that series. And Bernier was another nice move. It was your fourth line along with Henrique and Brodeur that won that series. Give credit where it's due. 

[Mike Brown]

Everything about that piece is overdramatic much like the responses in this thread.  It's not that he's or you guys are wrong, but you don't need to go on a rant about something that every organization goes through at some point.  All this is is a normal dry spell every team goes through.  Lou isn't trying to make the playoffs, nor is he trying to salvage a sinking ship.  Nothing he said is any indication that he is trying to do this.  Lou knows what's best for the team, and he'll do what he thinks will improve the team.  We don't gain anything by trading Jagr now as opposed to at the deadline.  If he gets a good offer now, I'm sure he'll take it.  But there's no rush to trade him.

 

We have so much flexibility this offseason, and the following offseason.  We only have 4 forwards signed for the 2016-2017 season, and one of them is Clowe who probably will never play again.  So that leaves only 3 forwards signed the year after next.  We also have a lot of cap space for this upcoming offseason.  If Lou has a good draft this year, and gets some young players in free agency in trades, this rebuild won't take long at all, and by the 16-17 season we could be a playoff team again.

 

Bottom line is, don't flip out over nothing.  You don't need to come out with some accusation of insulting the fans' intelligence as if the fans have more knowledge on the subject than the organization does.  We wouldn't have our great young defense without Lou who did a great job at rebuilding that, yet never gets any credit for it.

[DevsMan84]

Don't bank on lou getting young players, or at least any players worth spending that sort of money on anymore. We were fortunate enough to get cammy (and for him staying moderately healthy) last year but the days where there are deep, talented free agency year after year is pretty much over with this new CBA. Now that there is a real advantage to re signing with your team and the fact that these same advantages apply to teams trying to re sign their bigger players means the talent hitting free agency will rarely be what it once was.

[vadvlfan]

Everything about that piece is overdramatic much like the responses in this thread.  It's not that he's or you guys are wrong, but you don't need to go on a rant about something that every organization goes through at some point.  All this is is a normal dry spell every team goes through.  Lou isn't trying to make the playoffs, nor is he trying to salvage a sinking ship.  Nothing he said is any indication that he is trying to do this.  Lou knows what's best for the team, and he'll do what he thinks will improve the team.  We don't gain anything by trading Jagr now as opposed to at the deadline.  If he gets a good offer now, I'm sure he'll take it.  But there's no rush to trade him.

 

We have so much flexibility this offseason, and the following offseason.  We only have 4 forwards signed for the 2016-2017 season, and one of them is Clowe who probably will never play again.  So that leaves only 3 forwards signed the year after next.  We also have a lot of cap space for this upcoming offseason.  If Lou has a good draft this year, and gets some young players in free agency in trades, this rebuild won't take long at all, and by the 16-17 season we could be a playoff team again.

 

Bottom line is, don't flip out over nothing.  You don't need to come out with some accusation of insulting the fans' intelligence as if the fans have more knowledge on the subject than the organization does.  We wouldn't have our great young defense without Lou who did a great job at rebuilding that, yet never gets any credit for it.

Couldn't agree more MB. Finally a lil common sense.

[DJ Eco]

Everything about that piece is overdramatic much like the responses in this thread.  It's not that he's or you guys are wrong, but you don't need to go on a rant about something that every organization goes through at some point.  All this is is a normal dry spell every team goes through.  Lou isn't trying to make the playoffs, nor is he trying to salvage a sinking ship.  Nothing he said is any indication that he is trying to do this.  Lou knows what's best for the team, and he'll do what he thinks will improve the team.  We don't gain anything by trading Jagr now as opposed to at the deadline.  If he gets a good offer now, I'm sure he'll take it.  But there's no rush to trade him.

 

We have so much flexibility this offseason, and the following offseason.  We only have 4 forwards signed for the 2016-2017 season, and one of them is Clowe who probably will never play again.  So that leaves only 3 forwards signed the year after next.  We also have a lot of cap space for this upcoming offseason.  If Lou has a good draft this year, and gets some young players in free agency in trades, this rebuild won't take long at all, and by the 16-17 season we could be a playoff team again.

 

Bottom line is, don't flip out over nothing.  You don't need to come out with some accusation of insulting the fans' intelligence as if the fans have more knowledge on the subject than the organization does.  We wouldn't have our great young defense without Lou who did a great job at rebuilding that, yet never gets any credit for it.

 

The difference is GMs have a shelf life in those other organizations. Look around, every organization except maybe the Rangers who have hit some serious downtime have changed their management.

 

Lou is no different from Brodeur or Salvador, or from what we will go through with Elias in a couple years. You hit an age where perhaps you're no longer effective at your job and change is needed. And no, it's not exclusively an age thing. But if you're in the position of making decisions, you factor in their age with their results and you make a (tough) decision, that's that. It's a business. It's a "what have you done for me lately" business. 1990s Lou would be the first to agree with me. We are not the Nobel Peace Prize or the Hockey Hall of Fame. It's a results-now business, we are a hockey club.

Edited February 17, 2015 by DJ Eco

[Devilsfan118]

Prepare for some head-scrathers.  I wouldn't worry about it, I think it's Lou being Lou but it's still frustrating.
 

Edited February 17, 2015 by Devilsfan118

[NJDevs4978]

Having payroll flexibility doesn't mean a whole lot when the FA crop is more underwhelming every year under the new system and solutions from within aren't exactly around the corner. Our supposed top goal scoring prospect has been terrible and now benched in Albany.

Things are bad and they'll be bad for a while. Eventually that happens to every organization. That isn't my issue or the reason I wrote that. Just stop denying reality (Lou, the telecasts, ticket ops), being patronizing and act like you're doing us a favor only raising ticket prices 20% coming off three straight playoff less seasons.

Edited February 17, 2015 by NJDevs4978

[DJ Eco]

Prepare for some head-scrathers.  I wouldn't worry about it, I think it's Lou being Lou but it's still frustrating.

 

Hmmm, he gave more to them than I thought he would. 

 

I will say this and I know it sounds dumb and shallow, but as much as I'd like Lou to transition his job to someone else sooner than later, I will miss his swagger. I would hope we have someone as intimidating as him, and with a Northeastern accent of some sort lol... He's always seemed larger than life to me when I've seen him in person, I wouldn't dare go up to him to take a picture. It's that Steinbrenner-era management swagger. Lou's a wise guy.

 

I do believe the type of person the GM is can define the identity of a whole team (as it has), command more respect, and frankly, command more respect from around the league when it's time to talk trades. Someone like Lou is the exact image that comes to mind when you think about a New Jersey hockey team, as shallow as it sounds. I wouldn't want someone too young and too squirrelly. But yeah, it's not my job to hire.

Edited February 17, 2015 by DJ Eco

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

The difference is GMs have a shelf life in those other organizations. Look around, every organization except maybe the Rangers who have hit some serious downtime have changed their management.

 

Lou is no different from Brodeur or Salvador, or from what we will go through with Elias in a couple years. You hit an age where perhaps you're no longer effective at your job and change is needed. And no, it's not exclusively an age thing. But if you're in the position of making decisions, you factor in their age with their results and you make a (tough) decision, that's that. It's a business. It's a "what have you done for me lately" business. 1990s Lou would be the first to agree with me. We are not the Nobel Peace Prize or the Hockey Hall of Fame. It's a results-now business, we are a hockey club.

 

The problem I'll always have with this mentality is that you're basically throwing out your (mostly successful) GM after a few down years.  That's the problem with a lot of the under-30 crowd that grew up rooting for the Devils (not saying you're part of this crowd, I have no idea how old you are)...they know how to laugh and have fun at other teams' expense when they're struggling, but when it inevitably happens to our team, it's unacceptable and heads must roll.

 

I think in some ways it doesn't matter who the new GM will be (not initially, anyway)...this is team is probably only getting better through multiple solid drafts, which is going to take time and patience.  I think we're in for at least two more rough seasons.  Like NJDevs4978 pointed out, though it will be nice to have no real awful contracts on the roster, and though it's always nice to have money to spend, I'm not sure Lou (or whomever) is going to have particularly strong UFAs to spend the money on.  The new CBA is helping teams keep their key guys, in all tiers. 

 

My concerns about Lou remain the same:  is he getting too old to oversee the true multi-year rebuild this team can no longer fight off, and is it time for new blood and new ideas?  Maybe Lou could even be that "new blood" guy, but it'd require a serious change of method on his part.  For me, that would mean not trying to patch holes with ex-Devils and guys like Tootoo and Ryder.  Accept the fact that duct tape and Band-Aids simply won't get it done anymore (understood why he did this recently considering the circumstances, but he can't take this approach to building next year's team). 

 

I've posted about how Lou would probably take a detonator to this group if he could, sift through the rubble and keep a few pieces, then start over.  Well, he's effectively going to be in that situation after this season.  He can bring up guys like Matteau and Boucher and find out if they have anything at the NHL level, and sign warm bodies to get through the next two or three seasons until better players become available (and if he gets lucky, maybe someone surprises and exceeds expectations...becomes kind of an "unsung hero"-type.  Although I'm curious to see what Lou will do in a situation like this (he's never really been in one like this before), I just don't know if he gets the chance (just don't know where ownership is right now), or if I truly want him to have the chance.  I just wish I knew what he was really thinking...I don't think his quotes are the right measuring stick. 

Edited February 17, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Triumph]

Having payroll flexibility doesn't mean a whole lot when the FA crop is more underwhelming every year under the new system and solutions from within aren't exactly around the corner. Our supposed top goal scoring prospect has been terrible and now benched in Albany.

Things are bad and they'll be bad for a while. Eventually that happens to every organization. That isn't my issue or the reason I wrote that. Just stop denying reality (Lou, the telecasts, ticket ops), being patronizing and act like you're doing us a favor only raising ticket prices 20% coming off three straight playoff less seasons.

 

Benched in Albany - you're listening to those nitwits over at HFBoards again.  Healthy scratches on a 3 games in 3 day run are not uncommon for any player.  But I agree that Boucher's not having a good season.

[Neb00rs]

The problem I'll always have with this mentality is that you're basically throwing out your (mostly successful) GM after a few down years.  That's the problem with a lot of the under-30 crowd that grew up rooting for the Devils (not saying you're part of this crowd, I have no idea how old you are)...they know how to laugh and have fun at other teams' expense when they're struggling, but when it inevitably happens to our team, it's unacceptable and heads must roll.

 

It's been said a lot, but this is also what we get for drafting at the 20th pick+ year after year. Being good for a long time is already hard enough to do and Lou pulled it off. So when your core players retire, and your low draft picks replace them, there is going to be a downturn for a few years. It has been said many times here, but free agency just doesn't solve major problems, it fills holes. And Lou still managed to put a Cup run together in 2012. Again this has all been said, but some fans will just never get it. They will even respond to this post with "But what about Detroit." Yeah, well, we did it really well, and they possibly are the one team that did it better for longer from 1995 and on.

[coldply123]

yeah, Im giving lou these next two years of drafts and 2016 FA. I think Lou has built up enough good will to be granted that

if we dont find some decent forwards by then he can step away

By then you've thrown away two or three years and prime years for Schneider. And youre still in a rebuild situation.

[mouse]

By then you've thrown away two or three years and prime years for Schneider. And youre still in a rebuild situation.

You got a better solution? The answer isn't coming in free agency, so short of a lottery miracle that nets us McDavid or Eichel, we're gonna be rebuilding. Also, IMO part of the reason for that is we refused to go into full rebuild mode while we still had Marty. I get why we tried with him, but we can't have the same attitude again with Cory.

[EdgeControl]

You got a better solution? The answer isn't coming in free agency, so short of a lottery miracle that nets us McDavid or Eichel, we're gonna be rebuilding. Also, IMO part of the reason for that is we refused to go into full rebuild mode while we still had Marty. I get why we tried with him, but we can't have the same attitude again with Cory.

yup, its going to take a bit of time and luck here. these are very important drafts coming up and why every win could put us in a lower draft position.  we need to hit on a top forward in the draft, and we need to trade for one even if it means losing a top defenseman prospect

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

By then you've thrown away two or three years and prime years for Schneider. And youre still in a rebuild situation.

 

It is what it is.  There's no instant fix here.  It's our turn to take our lumps.  The core from the successful seasons is just about gone, and the replacements aren't in the system as of now.  Neb00rs like others have stated the reasons why.   

 

What you hope for is that Schneider still has prime years left by the time the Devils put a competitive team on the ice.  On some levels I do feel very much for him, in that he's going to be stuck playing on some bad teams.  Good news is that he's only 28.  Hopefully, when he's no older than 31, the Devils have another extended playoff window. 

[titans04]

"Gionta will play tonight. Havlat, Ryder and Fraser will be the Devils scratches tonight". Solid 2 of the bigger (outside of Camm) signings have hit rock bottom as if they haven't already.

[Chuck the Duck]

"Gionta will play tonight. Havlat, Ryder and Fraser will be the Devils scratches tonight". Solid 2 of the bigger (outside of Camm) signings have hit rock bottom as if they haven't already.

 

Havlat was a shot in the dark with the hopes that he (a) could stay healthy, and (b) rediscover his game, both of which has not happened.  The Devils are basically paying him NHL minimum wage, so the risk was minimal. 

 

The fact that Havlat was considered a "big" signing to begin with shows the problem with building this team through FA.  It just doesn't work in today's NHL.

[Devilsfan118]

Yeah I agree w/ Chuck, Havlat was a low-risk medium-reward type signing.  Not surprising it didn't work out really - oh well.

 

Ryder, that signing does sting a little bit though.  Hoping he'd at least bring 20 goals a year.  Turns out the Devils system was most definitely not for him.

[EdgeControl]

Yeah I agree w/ Chuck, Havlat was a low-risk medium-reward type signing.  Not surprising it didn't work out really - oh well.

 

Ryder, that signing does sting a little bit though.  Hoping he'd at least bring 20 goals a year.  Turns out the Devils system was most definitely not for him.

the clowe signing was the biggest headscratcher for me, knowing the concussion issues...maybe clowe is kicking lou back 50% of his salary under the table,,that or clowes mob ties sent lou a note

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

the clowe signing was the biggest headscratcher for me, knowing the concussion issues...maybe clowe is kicking lou back 50% of his salary under the table,,that or clowes mob ties sent lou a note

 

I think if one is so inclined to rip Lou (we know some people do it almost with relish), the two big moves where you can really hammer him:

 

Kovy contract #1:  Lou was warned by the league not to announce that 17-year deal and was told it would be rejected, but Lou decided to give the league the finger on that one.  Doesn't look quite as bad now that he got a 1st-rounder back, but it was arrogant and pointless to tweak the NHL, especially since Lou has his finger on the pulse of the league as good as anyone. 

 

Clowe:  for obvious reasons, though I think the fact that Clowe had only missed 32 games in the prior 5 seasons had Lou thinking that maybe his concussion issues weren't that bad.  It was still just way too risky.  It's one thing to sign a Havlat to a cross-your-fingers, low-cost, one-year deal, but Clowe was a lot more costly...especially since I think Lou was hoping for the '08-'12 version of Clowe.   

[Devil Dan 56]

I think if one is so inclined to rip Lou (we know some people do it almost with relish), the two big moves where you can really hammer him:

Kovy contract #1: Lou was warned by the league not to announce that 17-year deal and was told it would be rejected, but Lou decided to give the league the finger on that one. Doesn't look quite as bad now that he got a 1st-rounder back, but it was arrogant and pointless to tweak the NHL, especially since Lou has his finger on the pulse of the league as good as anyone.

Clowe: for obvious reasons, though I think the fact that Clowe had only missed 32 games in the prior 5 seasons had Lou thinking that maybe his concussion issues weren't that bad. It was still just way too risky. It's one thing to sign a Havlat to a cross-your-fingers, low-cost, one-year deal, but Clowe was a lot more costly...especially since I think Lou was hoping for the '08-'12 version of Clowe.

The Kovy thing got compounded by a decision I really didn't like, which was not passing on the 2012 pick. It would have looked like a much better decision if Vasilevskiy was still available, which I think was the aim, but I just found it too risky

[mouse]

Going back to the original point of the article, no matter who is at fault, the team is clearly rebuilding. Our commentators, who are in theory paid to inform and entertain rather than kiss the collective @sses of the FO could be discussing which players should be here long term, what we can get for vets at the deadline, and the strengths and weaknesses of all positions going forward instead of pretending we might make the playoffs. The FO could act grateful to the STH who keep pouring money into a bad team, rather than raining prices a ton AND making it tougher to resell some tickets, either if people really can't make the game OR if they just want some cash. The team benefits from STH, especially seasons like this one where people become less and less inclined to go to games as the team plays worse. The FO needs to stop treating the die hards who are still willing to fund their product, even when it's piss poor, as the problem.

[Mike Brown]

You guys just need to be patient.  We actually have something rock solid to build around unlike Buffalo, Edmonton, Carolina, and Toronto.  We don't need to go on a full rebuild, and Lou is to thank for that.  Things will be fine.

[Neb00rs]

I think if one is so inclined to rip Lou (we know some people do it almost with relish), the two big moves where you can really hammer him:

 

no-name contract #1:  Lou was warned by the league not to announce that 17-year deal and was told it would be rejected, but Lou decided to give the league the finger on that one.  Doesn't look quite as bad now that he got a 1st-rounder back, but it was arrogant and pointless to tweak the NHL, especially since Lou has his finger on the pulse of the league as good as anyone. 

 

Clowe:  for obvious reasons, though I think the fact that Clowe had only missed 32 games in the prior 5 seasons had Lou thinking that maybe his concussion issues weren't that bad.  It was still just way too risky.  It's one thing to sign a Havlat to a cross-your-fingers, low-cost, one-year deal, but Clowe was a lot more costly...especially since I think Lou was hoping for the '08-'12 version of Clowe.   

 

As for Clowe, I agree, but I think it was more than that too. I think Lou was a little desperate to put something resembling a team together after the prior season of misery, and a player like Clowe was the best we could attract. To me that signing was a "Look, if you have a better plan then tell me" move by Lou.