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Clarkson to Jackets for Nathan Horton


Derlique

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Poor Clarky.  Just your prototypical simple hockey guy.  Really don't think he deserves any vitriol for that contract - Toronto's management group are the morons that offered a glorified third liner that contract.

 

I can understand that but at this point I put him in the same category as Gomez back in 2007 when he signed with the Rangers.  In addition to the paycheck, like Gomez who bought into the stories that Sather thought he was a 90+ player being held back by the Devils system, Clarkson probably also bought into the hype around him being called the next Wendel Clark by the Toronto media (and ML execs as well from what I've heard).  Both Gomez and Clarkson just were too stupid to know that it was really the Devils system that propped them up and not held them down like they wanted to believe.

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MD you might start reading at the 12th paragraph that starts with Krejci.

What do you think about what Bettman said?

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/02/faith_no_more_its_going_to_be_another_underwhelmin.html

I think he's a hypocrite and an a$$hole. But I don't think I'm breaking any news there.
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I can understand that but at this point I put him in the same category as Gomez back in 2007 when he signed with the Rangers. In addition to the paycheck, like Gomez who bought into the stories that Sather thought he was a 90+ player being held back by the Devils system, Clarkson probably also bought into the hype around him being called the next Wendel Clark by the Toronto media (and ML execs as well from what I've heard). Both Gomez and Clarkson just were too stupid to know that it was really the Devils system that propped them up and not held them down like they wanted to believe.

Why would you think that at all. That's stupid.

None of this is Clarksons fault.

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Why would you think that at all. That's stupid.

None of this is Clarksons fault.

 

I never blamed Clarkson for signing the contract that was handed to him.

 

What I am saying is that I do believe that like Gomez, Clarkson also bought some of the hype around him when he signed with the Wendel Clarkson references and coming off a couple of solid seasons including a 30-goal season in 11-12, I can easily believe that he thought he would be that type of player.

 

I am not going to shed any tears over this.

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In fairness to Gomer, Clarkson and many others, I do think it's easy to get swept up into the post-signing press conference love-fests and radio call-ins, where it can feel like the sky's the limit for everyone involved...even the players themselves.  Even though we've seen countless merely average-to-good players get signed to contacts they'll never live up to from a pure dollar standpoint, the dollars alone lead to a lot of excitement and anticipation...often too much of both.  Anyone with half a brain knew that Gomer wasn't magically going to become a 90-100 point players, and that Clarkson wasn't going to become a Wendel Clark-type (when healthy, he was a pretty prolific offensive force and a solid power forward).   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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In fairness to Gomer, Clarkson and many others, I do think it's easy to get swept up into the post-signing press conference love-fests and radio call-ins, where it can feel like the sky's the limit for everyone involved...even the players themselves.  Even though we've seen countless merely average-to-good players get signed to contacts they'll never live up to from a pure dollar standpoint, the dollars alone lead to a lot of excitement and anticipation...often too much of both.  Anyone with half a brain knew that Gomer wasn't magically going to become a 90-100 point players, and that Clarkson wasn't going to become a Wendel Clark-type (when healthy, he was a pretty prolific offensive force and a solid power forward).   

 

If people had a proper assessment and respect for Patrik Elias, I think things would've been very different.

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I never blamed Clarkson for signing the contract that was handed to him.

 

What I am saying is that I do believe that like Gomez, Clarkson also bought some of the hype around him when he signed with the Wendel Clarkson references and coming off a couple of solid seasons including a 30-goal season in 11-12, I can easily believe that he thought he would be that type of player.

 

I am not going to shed any tears over this.

 

I'm going to disagree with you about Gomez. Gomez was an awesome player, and he was pretty darn good in NY. He never meshed as well with Jagr as he did with Elias, but the NHL landscape changed greatly after 2005-2007, and Jagr left after 1 year, anyway. The problem with Gomez was he got one of the first big salary cap contracts, and no one could get over that cap hit, especially when there were so many good players that hadn't gotten their payday yet. He could have been good anywhere.

 

As for Clarkson, it is what it is. From all reports, contract talks with the Devils ended at the draft. Ottawa, Toronto and Edmonton were heavily courting him. He chose the home town team. He got paid. What more could you ask. David was going to drop off anywhere he went, but no one could expect how badly a mix it be in Toronto.

Edited by devilsrule33
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I'm going to disagree with you about Gomez. Gomez was an awesome player, and he was pretty darn good in NY. He never meshed as well with Jagr as he did with Elias, but the NHL landscape changed greatly after 2005-2007, and Jagr left after 1 year, anyway. The problem with Gomez was he got one of the first big salary cap contracts, and no one could get over that cap hit, especially when there were so many good players that hadn't gotten their payday yet. He could have been good anywhere.

 

As for Clarkson, it is what it is. From all reports, contract talks with the Devils ended at the draft. Ottawa, Toronto and Edmonton were heavily courting him. He chose the home town team. He got paid. What more could you ask. David was going to drop off anywhere he went, but no one could expect how badly a mix it be in Toronto.

 

They actually meshed fine - neither guy at that point in their careers could finish.  Jagr's basically been a 10% shooter since 2005-2006, and Gomez was way worse than that.  I'd want to put both guys with people who can finish.

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I'm going to disagree with you about Gomez. Gomez was an awesome player, and he was pretty darn good in NY. He never meshed as well with Jagr as he did with Elias, but the NHL landscape changed greatly after 2005-2007, and Jagr left after 1 year, anyway. The problem with Gomez was he got one of the first big salary cap contracts, and no one could get over that cap hit, especially when there were so many good players that hadn't gotten their payday yet. He could have been good anywhere.

 

As for Clarkson, it is what it is. From all reports, contract talks with the Devils ended at the draft. Ottawa, Toronto and Edmonton were heavily courting him. He chose the home town team. He got paid. What more could you ask. David was going to drop off anywhere he went, but no one could expect how badly a mix it be in Toronto.

 

Didn't even Sather say or insinuate at the signing that Gomez was going to be a 90-100 point guy?  He didn't even come close.  He had some pretty good line mates for most of his Devils career with Lemieux, Mogilny, Elias, Gionta, etc. that he had good chemistry with.  Granted he didn't have that with Jagr but after Jagr left he didn't have a line mate that he could mesh with and his production dipped.  His stats were propped up by the Devils system and his line mates here.  That is what I am convinced of regardless of his contract size or length.

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Didn't even Sather say or insinuate at the signing that Gomez was going to be a 90-100 point guy?  He didn't even come close.  He had some pretty good line mates for most of his Devils career with Lemieux, Mogilny, Elias, Gionta, etc. that he had good chemistry with.  Granted he didn't have that with Jagr but after Jagr left he didn't have a line mate that he could mesh with and his production dipped.  His stats were propped up by the Devils system and his line mates here.  That is what I am convinced of regardless of his contract size or length.

 

If it was 2006, maybe. Jagr had 71 points in 2008, 52 less than he did in 2006. The average team in the NHL had 479 power plays in 06, and only 352 by the time Gomez left New York. That's a lot of points off the board. As Tri noted, Jagr's scoring dipped a lot, too.

 

If Gomez stayed in New Jersey, his numbers were dropping as well.

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Didn't even Sather say or insinuate at the signing that Gomez was going to be a 90-100 point guy?  He didn't even come close.  He had some pretty good line mates for most of his Devils career with Lemieux, Mogilny, Elias, Gionta, etc. that he had good chemistry with.  Granted he didn't have that with Jagr but after Jagr left he didn't have a line mate that he could mesh with and his production dipped.  His stats were propped up by the Devils system and his line mates here.  That is what I am convinced of regardless of his contract size or length.

 

If you look at Gomer's first three seasons after he signed his big contract (two with the Rangers, one with the Canadiens), they were all actually pretty Gomer-like...the contact (and to an extent that 33-goal season that had more to do with a bloated shooting% than anything else) unfairly raised expectations.  Gomez wasn't allowed to be Gomez anymore. 

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If people had a proper assessment and respect for Patrik Elias, I think things would've been very different.

 

No kidding.  I remember reading a quote on HF boards about how if Clarkson could score 30 on the Devils, what would he do with Kadri setting him up?  Like several other players we've lost to huge free agent contracts, Clarkson should be kicking some of that bonus money back to Elias.   

 

On a side note, I understand how media and fans get swept up in free agency but how in the hell were there ever multiple teams willing to pay top dollar for David Clarkson?  I just don't understand how pro scouts could watch his game and not realize he would be a huge flop as a big time free-agent signing when every single Devils fans knew this was coming, especially under the microscope of Toronto.  Yeah, he's not scoring goals like he did the last few years in NJ but he was always a terrible skater with low hockey IQ and an absolute black hole for anyone put on a line with him.  At least with NJ he had some equity built up given that he was undrafted and played his heart out.  Imagine watching him fall down twice a shift if he was Lou's big off season signing to bring us to the next level.  We would have hated him.     

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No kidding.  I remember reading a quote on HF boards about how if Clarkson could score 30 on the Devils, what would he do with Kadri setting him up?  Like several other players we've lost to huge free agent 

On a side note, I understand how media and fans get swept up in free agency but how in the hell were there ever multiple teams willing to pay top dollar for David Clarkson?  I just don't understand how pro scouts could watch his game and not realize he would be a huge flop as a big time free-agent signing when every single Devils fans knew this was coming, especially under the microscope of Toronto.  Yeah, he's not scoring goals like he did the last few years in NJ but he was always a terrible skater with low hockey IQ and an absolute black hole for anyone put on a line with him.  At least with NJ he had some equity built up given that he was undrafted and played his heart out.  Imagine watching him fall down twice a shift if he was Lou's big off season signing to bring us to the next level.  We would have hated him.     

 

I hear you and in general your points about FA are correct but I think you steered wrong on Clarkson (as many others do). I don't believe for one second that any team in the league aside from Toronto was dumb enough to offer Clarkson that contract. I got the sense at the time, that he was offered that deal in haste, and when it was signed, the rest of the league (and this board) laughed their asses off at the Leafs.

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I hear you and in general your points about FA are correct but I think you steered wrong on Clarkson (as many others do). I don't believe for one second that any team in the league aside from Toronto was dumb enough to offer Clarkson that contract. I got the sense at the time, that he was offered that deal in haste, and when it was signed, the rest of the league (and this board) laughed their asses off at the Leafs.

 

Ottawa wined and dined him and his family the day before July 1st, but they weren't ready to offer him that term or $amount. It's been reported numerous times that he Edmonton offered him more money than Toronto.

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It's been reported numerous times that he Edmonton offered him more money than Toronto.

 

To be fair though, they are Edmonton and...well...how should I say?...As a percentage of "GDP" out in Edmonton Oilers land, Clarkson's mind-numbingly stupid contract would be just a touch more tolerable. That and the fact that they have to bribe players to come out and play for them.

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To be fair though, they are Edmonton and...well...how should I say?...As a percentage of "GDP" out in Edmonton Oilers land, Clarkson's mind-numbingly stupid contract would be just a touch more tolerable. That and the fact that they have to bribe players to come out and play for them.

 

To be fair to what?  Both Ottawa and Edmonton offered comparable contracts.  This has been very widely reported.  He was a highly desired player by certain organizations.

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To be fair to what?  Both Ottawa and Edmonton offered comparable contracts.  This has been very widely reported.  He was a highly desired player by certain organizations.

 

Um, the contract is not as stupid when it is much more difficult for you to attract players, and you potentially have a much easier time in the near future making the space for him. As we see with the "zero-sum" swap between Toronto and Columbus, the Clarkson contract was extra dumb, as it put them in a difficult cap situation.

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