mort4345 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Look, the Zids trade haul was probably going to be the best that the Devils could get given the NTC - something that Lou brought upon himself. But the real problem here isn't the bounty or relatively lack thereof from Zids, but the absence of trade movement from any of the other Devils (ie. Ryder, Havlat, Tootoo, Gomez, Frasier, Bernier, etc.) Sure, it was probably fairly improbable that everyone would get moved that should have been but the fact that nobody other than Zids was moved on Monday speaks volumes. Either nobody wanted those players (possible) or Lou was unwilling to take mid-level draft picks for them (per usual). So overall, after a good start with the Jagr trade, deadline day was a huge disappointment for most, if not all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know about very little. They're gonna have to go through Tampa and Montreal, but I'm not sure "very little" is accurate. Yeah, theres no ultra dominant team in the east... I don't even know..is howard back in goal??? I dont see a team that the redwings absolutely cant beat in a series... I'll be watching the wings vs the rags tommorow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Look, the Zids trade haul was probably going to be the best that the Devils could get given the NTC - something that Lou brought upon himself. But the real problem here isn't the bounty or relatively lack thereof from Zids, but the absence of trade movement from any of the other Devils (ie. Ryder, Havlat, Tootoo, Gomez, Frasier, Bernier, etc.) Sure, it was probably fairly improbable that everyone would get moved that should have been but the fact that nobody other than Zids was moved on Monday speaks volumes. Either nobody wanted those players (possible) or Lou was unwilling to take mid-level draft picks for them (per usual). So overall, after a good start with the Jagr trade, deadline day was a huge disappointment for most, if not all of us. In the cases of Ryder, Havlat, and Fraser...completely believable that no one wanted them. Remember, the idea at the deadline for buyers is to improve their teams, not collect trash for the sake of doing so. How do these three guys who have trouble cracking a bad team's healthy lineup (and haven't done much when they're on the ice) represent an improvement? The only value any of them really had at this point was depth. As for the others...said it before, but I think two things applied here: 1) The Devils actually have to ice a team for the rest of this season, and I'm guessing Lou would rather see if Gomez, Bernier, and Tootoo are worth re-signing beyond this season than to bring up the oldster "no NHL future" forwards at Albany (Thompson, Whitney, and Sislo). This is almost like an extended tryout for all of them. I don't blame Lou for doing this, because the Devils are going to need some "bridge the gap" players for the next season or two...preferably guys who will give you an honest effort and set a good example in the locker room and on the ice for the young up-and-comers that the Devils will hopefully be sprinkling in. Chico Resch was invaluable in this regard for the early-to-mid-80s Devils. 2) Lou thinks that Matteau and Boucher would benefit from staying in the AHL...so why open up spots for young forwards if none are going to get a look? If either of those players looked like they didn't have anything left to prove and were ready to contribute right now, I think Lou would've found ways to make room for them. Edited March 3, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I can understand the perception with Havlat and Fraser, but for Ryder do the better teams really think he is trash? He is not far removed from his 30-goal seasons and his fairly productive Stanley Cup run with the Bruins in 2011. I am surprised not one of the teams figured he could be a 3rd line "what the hell" kind of move and hope he catches fire in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I don't know. I mean he hasn't played in forever, but teams can check with the press of a button every single time he was on the ice this year...they watched him. They know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Ryder was never well thought of even when he was scoring a lot. He's a guy who needs the right pieces around him to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I can understand the perception with Havlat and Fraser, but for Ryder do the better teams really think he is trash? He is not far removed from his 30-goal seasons and his fairly productive Stanley Cup run with the Bruins in 2011. I am surprised not one of the teams figured he could be a 3rd line "what the hell" kind of move and hope he catches fire in the playoffs. If you're a GM who sees a guy getting healthy-scratched like crazy, are you really all that eager to take a flyer on him? Tri is right, Ryder needs everything to be near-perfect around him to succeed. His goal totals over the last five seasons: 09-10 18 (82 GP) 10-11 18 (79 GP) 11-12 35 (82 GP) 12-13 16 (46 GP in a 48-game season...prorates to 28.5 goals in an 82-game season) 13-14 18 And he'll be 35 at the end of the month. Could be GMs see a guy who is simply getting older, not what he was, and just not worth it. Yeah, I'm a little bit surprised someone didn't cough up a 6th or 7th rounder for him, but not all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Did Ryder see a single second with Gomez once Gomez was signed? From day 1 that seemed like a good fit. Ryder with Elias? That looked pretty good, but it only lasted 5 games. Anyway, we've seen all sorts of players get fresh starts with the new regime, and other players be demoted. Bernier and Tootoo have risen while Jagr and Ryder have fallen. But just a reminder how Ryder got there. 6 or so games being centred by Mike Cammalleri, and then scratched for an entire month. Brought back to play 9 minutes on the 4th line. That's pretty much it. Ryder has a ton of warts, but he has one elite skill -- his shot. When you sign Michael Ryder, you have to know that. The Devils didn't or never seemed interested in making it work, or think way too highly of Adam Henrique and Mike Cammalleri as centres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 If you're a GM who sees a guy getting healthy-scratched like crazy, are you really all that eager to take a flyer on him? Tri is right, Ryder needs everything to be near-perfect around him to succeed. His goal totals over the last five seasons: 09-10 18 (82 GP) 10-11 18 (79 GP) 11-12 35 (82 GP) 12-13 16 (46 GP in a 48-game season...prorates to 28.5 goals in an 82-game season) 13-14 18 And he'll be 35 at the end of the month. Could be GMs see a guy who is simply getting older, not what he was, and just not worth it. Yeah, I'm a little bit surprised someone didn't cough up a 6th or 7th rounder for him, but not all that much. But wouldn't a lot of these teams competing have a lot of those pieces for Ryder? I am not going to try to make Ryder seem like he is better than he has shown here (I think he has been a huge disappointment to say the least) but in fairness to him he hasn't been put together with a lot of talent on his line. That goes double with what passes as "talent" on this team this year and to an extent last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Did Ryder see a single second with Gomez once Gomez was signed? From day 1 that seemed like a good fit. Ryder with Elias? That looked pretty good, but it only lasted 5 games. Anyway, we've seen all sorts of players get fresh starts with the new regime, and other players be demoted. Bernier and Tootoo have risen while Jagr and Ryder have fallen. But just a reminder how Ryder got there. 6 or so games being centred by Mike Cammalleri, and then scratched for an entire month. Brought back to play 9 minutes on the 4th line. That's pretty much it. Ryder has a ton of warts, but he has one elite skill -- his shot. When you sign Michael Ryder, you have to know that. The Devils didn't or never seemed interested in making it work, or think way too highly of Adam Henrique and Mike Cammalleri as centres. He did come back and take an absolutely inexcusable penalty. Which was one of his biggest issues this year - you can't be Michael Ryder and take 15 minor penalties. He's not good at forcing turnovers and he doesn't physically engage the opposition much either. There was a lot of lazy stickwork in those 15 minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 dr33 and DM84, in this case, I was more talking about other GMs' viewpoints of him. Because of all of the scratches, they don't have that much to go on, other than seeing the Devils (despite having offensive issues out the wazoo) not putting him in the lineup. That being said, I don't put all of this on the Devils, and Ryder isn't blameless (and like I've said previously, isn't SO productive that the Devils should be racking their brains to try to get 25 goals or so out of Ryder, instead of 18 or less). He did come back and take an absolutely inexcusable penalty. Which was one of his biggest issues this year - you can't be Michael Ryder and take 15 minor penalties. He's not good at forcing turnovers and he doesn't physically engage the opposition much either. There was a lot of lazy stickwork in those 15 minors. And this. I don't think the Devils' issues with him were just because he wasn't putting pucks in the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 dr33 and DM84, in this case, I was more talking about other GMs' viewpoints of him. Because of all of the scratches, they don't have that much to go on, other than seeing the Devils (despite having offensive issues out the wazoo) not putting him in the lineup. That being said, I don't put all of this on the Devils, and Ryder isn't blameless (and like I've said previously, isn't SO productive that the Devils should be racking their brains to try to get 25 goals or so out of Ryder, instead of 18 or less). And this. I don't think the Devils' issues with him were just because he wasn't putting pucks in the net. Of course. I think Ryder did say it best today about why other GMs weren't interested him. When you talk about productivity...look at what the Devils offense has a whole has done for the last two years, CR? It's been really really bad. I've talked about Ryder, but we can go on and on about Elias being wasted away playing with the likes of Zubrus and Havlat. Maybe, the staff should be figuring out ways to get Patrik Elias producing. In the same way Ryder has not worked with all the players I mentioned, Elias was never going to be the player the Devils needed him to be playing with Zubrus, Havlat, Bernier, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Of course. I think Ryder did say it best today about why other GMs weren't interested him. When you talk about productivity...look at what the Devils offense has a whole has done for the last two years, CR? It's been really really bad. I've talked about Ryder, but we can go on and on about Elias being wasted away playing with the likes of Zubrus and Havlat. Maybe, the staff should be figuring out ways to get Patrik Elias producing. In the same way Ryder has not worked with all the players I mentioned, Elias was never going to be the player the Devils needed him to be playing with Zubrus, Havlat, Bernier, etc. In Elias' case...yeah, I'll definitely give you that I don't think the Devils have always done right by him throughout his career here. At times during his later prime years, it's felt like he's almost stubbornly had to work against his circumstances to produce. As good as his Dead Puck Era numbers are, I think he could've put up better numbers elsewhere...not light-years better, but better. Started a thread on the bolded. Edited March 3, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort4345 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 In the cases of Ryder, Havlat, and Fraser...completely believable that no one wanted them. Remember, the idea at the deadline for buyers is to improve their teams, not collect trash for the sake of doing so. How do these three guys who have trouble cracking a bad team's healthy lineup (and haven't done much when they're on the ice) represent an improvement? The only value any of them really had at this point was depth. As for the others...said it before, but I think two things applied here: 1) The Devils actually have to ice a team for the rest of this season, and I'm guessing Lou would rather see if Gomez, Bernier, and Tootoo are worth re-signing beyond this season than to bring up the oldster "no NHL future" forwards at Albany (Thompson, Whitney, and Sislo). This is almost like an extended tryout for all of them. I don't blame Lou for doing this, because the Devils are going to need some "bridge the gap" players for the next season or two...preferably guys who will give you an honest effort and set a good example in the locker room and on the ice for the young up-and-comers that the Devils will hopefully be sprinkling in. Chico Resch was invaluable in this regard for the early-to-mid-80s Devils. 2) Lou thinks that Matteau and Boucher would benefit from staying in the AHL...so why open up spots for young forwards if none are going to get a look? If either of those players looked like they didn't have anything left to prove and were ready to contribute right now, I think Lou would've found ways to make room for them. Here's what TG had to say today, quoting Lou: Lamoriello said after Monday's trade deadline that he could have moved “several other players”, but opted not to because he believes the team is still in the race. I guess that's one of my points as well. Lou's statement is either subterfuge, rationalization or delusion. If he would have come out and said what you argued above, I could have lived with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevils11274 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thompson is way better than Boucher. Matteau has flashes but just dosent look like the guy he should be. Glad Zids is GONE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hystyk28 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Ryder was never well thought of even when he was scoring a lot. He's a guy who needs the right pieces around him to succeed. While a true playmaking center wouldn't hurt Ryder, I believe it is both the back pressure in today's game that limits getting him the puck in prime scoring spots and video that every goalie and d has seen on him that has added to his demise. He NEVER changes his point of attack when he gets the puck. Curl and drag, shot to the glove. Rinse and repeat. That and he is a poor skater and lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well this thread is all over the place. Zids wins a point in OT for Detroit. Good for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Well this thread is all over the place. Zids wins a point in OT for Detroit. Good for him nice to see him get ice time in OT! and bbeat the rags! he was also in the box lol typical zid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 nice to see him get ice time in OT! and bbeat the rags! he was also in the box lol typical zid! Hey, first game like Jagr he has a positive effect. Look whatt happen to Clarkson with CBJ and Connelly with Boston Bruin both sidelined with injuries min. 6 weeks. No big deal for CBJ but Boston needed the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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