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Building a Contender


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Yeah the league has changed so much, there's even less scoring now than there was then. Go figure.

 

i never said anything about scoring.

 

Speed, the systems, the way teams are built is different now. Just like year Lou was still dressing 2 slow GOONS who couldnt score during games where we needed scoring desperately.

 

You need speed to win and it's almost like Lou is going out of his way to get slower. 

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The Devils led the league in scoring in 2001 and were second in 2000. Just sayin'.

 

NJ was 3rd overall in goals scored between 1998-99 and 2001-02.

 

They were 8th overall in goals betwen 1995 and 2002-03.  

 

They scored goals.  The thing is that with how the league is now, building a team around offense gets expensive quickly unless you have several top line forwards or generational forwards.  You can't front-load contracts anymore, and your best players are playing less.  It'll be curious to see how things go in the next 5-10 years.

Edited by Triumph
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In addition, the point of this thread is for NJ to improve their weakest links. This year the top dogs were well behind the top dogs around the league and the bottom players were much worse than than most teams bottom players.

Obviously it's going to take years to overhaul the top line, but it takes months to overhaul the bottom of the barrel.

Becoming a contender is going to be a process. The Devils aren't going to be a contender next year. But, they can take a step in the right direction. Next year if the forwards go from god awful to merely mediocre, they are a team on the bubble.

Overhauling the bottom 6 isn't what we need to do. The reason our last two lines are so bad is because the guys that should be down there are playing top 6. This whole adding bottom depth thing hasn't been working. We have quality bottom 6 guys, probably some of the best in the league, but they're skating with the top line every night. Bernier, tootoo, josefson, Elias, zajac, Gomez, these guys either should or reasonably could be playing on the 3rd or 4th lines every night. You're either making marginal upgrades or creating a log jam with 2nd/3rd liners. Top 6 players need to be added to slide these guys down to the spots they should be playing. And if we get the play from some of these guys we've been getting in those roles, we've got a pretty deep group of forwards. Obviously easier said than done, but I'd rather go with status quo than add more brunners and ryders.

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They scored goals.  The thing is that with how the league is now, building a team around offense gets expensive quickly unless you have several top line forwards or generational forwards.  You can't front-load contracts anymore, and your best players are playing less.  It'll be curious to see how things go in the next 5-10 years.

 

I think the advantages of not being able to front-load contracts and the year limits will largely cancel out the disadvantages if the idea is to have a consistent contender.   While the Patrick Kanes of the world will now have $10.5 million cap hits where they might have had $8 million under a non-voidable front-loaded contract, the limits on contract length gives teams a sufficient level of certainty about a player's intentions that there's a better chance to recapture some of the value in a trade.  So while a financially more secure Devils' team might have been able to match Parise's offer from the Wild, had there been year limits at the time, he might have agreed to an eight year deal at the start of the 2011 season, or he could have been traded for prospects and picks which there's a pretty good chance would be a quality NHL player by now.  A decent comparable might be the return that Columbus got for Nash, which is pretty good considering that he basically said he wouldn't waive his NTC for any team other than the Rangers and maybe the Leafs.

 

The year limits also probably give you an advantage with those slightly below generational talents like Tavares, Kane and Stamkos going forward.  By the time those players are out of their ELCs, but still a long ways away from being UFAs and most likely have not quite hit their peak years.  So, the Isles in a couple of years are probably going to have to give Tavares an eight year $100 million deal in two years when he's 28.  If this CBA had been in effect at the time, he'd probably be under contract for an additional two years, at which point he'd be well past the age when players supposedly start to decline. 

 

It seems like we're already starting to see this as the quality of UFA classes appears to be in decline. 

Edited by Daniel
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I think the advantages of not being able to front-load contracts and the year limits will largely cancel out the disadvantages if the idea is to have a consistent contender.   While the Patrick Kanes of the world will now have $10.5 million cap hits where they might have had $8 million under a non-voidable front-loaded contract, the limits on contract length gives teams a sufficient level of certainty about a player's intentions that there's a better chance to recapture some of the value in a trade.  So while a financially more secure Devils' team might have been able to match Parise's offer from the Wild, had there been year limits at the time, he might have agreed to an eight year deal at the start of the 2011 season, or he could have been traded for prospects and picks which there's a pretty good chance would be a quality NHL player by now.  A decent comparable might be the return that Columbus got for Nash, which is pretty good considering that he basically said he wouldn't waive his NTC for any team other than the Rangers and maybe the Leafs.

 

The year limits also probably give you an advantage with those slightly below generational talents like Tavares, Kane and Stamkos going forward.  By the time those players are out of their ELCs, but still a long ways away from being UFAs and most likely have not quite hit their peak years.  So, the Isles in a couple of years are probably going to have to give Tavares an eight year $100 million deal in two years when he's 28.  If this CBA had been in effect at the time, he'd probably be under contract for an additional two years, at which point he'd be well past the age when players supposedly start to decline. 

 

It seems like we're already starting to see this as the quality of UFA classes appears to be in decline. 

 

I don't think we'll see many 8 year deals coming out of ELCs, almost regardless of how good the player is.  Going 5 or 6 years maximizes the player's ability to get paid while having almost no risk relative to an 8 year deal.

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So many things are different. Rules, CBA (contracts), Salary cap, speed of the game, structure of teams, international scouting (we use to be a step above most teams now now were super behind, Free agency, interaction between players with social medias (players seeing greener pasture a lot more now elsewhere than say 10-20 years ago)

 

Lou showed struggles with a lot of those. Playing a man down cause we we're exceeding the amount of players and him having to pull off paper moves back and forth just to have a roster every night. Players management have also been pretty bad these last few years honestly. It's really not nitpicking to point out those things.

Edited by SterioDesign
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Overhauling the bottom 6 isn't what we need to do. The reason our last two lines are so bad is because the guys that should be down there are playing top 6. This whole adding bottom depth thing hasn't been working. We have quality bottom 6 guys, probably some of the best in the league, but they're skating with the top line every night. Bernier, tootoo, josefson, Elias, zajac, Gomez, these guys either should or reasonably could be playing on the 3rd or 4th lines every night. You're either making marginal upgrades or creating a log jam with 2nd/3rd liners. Top 6 players need to be added to slide these guys down to the spots they should be playing. And if we get the play from some of these guys we've been getting in those roles, we've got a pretty deep group of forwards. Obviously easier said than done, but I'd rather go with status quo than add more brunners and ryders.

I'm talking small moves. Ditching Zubrus and signing St.Louis. Ridding ourselves of Zubrus alone is addition by subtraction, same can be said for Fraser and Gelinas. Status quo puts us here, probably worse a year older. If this is the idea, might as well trade Cory
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What years were those? The NHL has changed since the Devils last cup, defense is important but not first for the offense.  That's why we have missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

 

The league hasn't changed, if anything defense is even more important, and the Devils have the type of Defenseman to anchor a cup run. They can transition the puck up the ice by either skating it or passing, which is key in todays game. 

 

The issue at hand, is that they have below average top 6 talent. Their bottom 6 forwards are more than adequate, in fact, I would argue that they are above average. 

 

What I would like to see next year 

 

Cammy Zajac Kessel

 

Henrique Elias Frolik 

 

Boucher Gomez Semin

 

Ruutu Jo Bernier/Matteau

Edited by William D'Aquila
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Honestly it shouldn't be a long slow rebuild because we have the goaltending and young defense that should get better in the next few years. The problem is asset management in drafting offense and trading the right piece of our strength to get the right forward.

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The league hasn't changed, if anything defense is even more important, and the Devils have the type of Defenseman to anchor a cup run. They can transition the puck up the ice by either skating it or passing, which is key in todays game. 

 

The issue at hand, is that they have below average top 6 talent. Their bottom 6 forwards are more than adequate, in fact, I would argue that they are above average. 

 

What I would like to see next year 

 

Cammy Zajac Kessel

 

Henrique Elias Frolik 

 

Boucher Gomez Semin

 

Ruutu Jo Bernier/Matteau

 

Where do I sign up?

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The league hasn't changed, if anything defense is even more important, and the Devils have the type of Defenseman to anchor a cup run. They can transition the puck up the ice by either skating it or passing, which is key in todays game. 

 

The issue at hand, is that they have below average top 6 talent. Their bottom 6 forwards are more than adequate, in fact, I would argue that they are above average. 

 

What I would like to see next year 

 

Cammy Zajac Kessel

 

Henrique Elias Frolik 

 

Boucher Gomez Semin

 

Ruutu Jo Bernier/Matteau

Devils promptly change name from "New Jersey Devils" to " Devils of the Peninsula of Misfit Players"

I can dig one of them, but I can't see both.

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If NJ comes out of the gate with

Greene Larsson

Severson Merrill

Oduya Hrabarenka

in front of Schneider, you'll be hard pressed to find a team with better D and goalie out of the playoffs

Johnny Oduya...haha. why do I feel this is so going to happen? Oh yea, he's an ex-Devil! Lol

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