Lou's Future

[Daniel]

I didn't want to derail other threads where the discussion inevitably comes up. 

 

In my opinion, he should be given one more year to demonstrate that he can improve the team significantly ("significantly" being in the eye of the beholder).   Aside from the MacLean era, which I will always consider an anomaly, the fundamentals were fairly sound.  Even if the performance wasn't the most exciting thing in the world, they did enough where playoff berths in 12-13 and 13-14 were realistic enough but for certain things going wrong.  In the lockout season, there's a good chance they would have made the playoffs if Kovalchuk didn't get hurt.  Last year, it was the shootout (which is not something a GM has much control over, or if he does, it's not something towards which he should be devoting time, resources and energy specifically) and Marty getting too many games, although the team lucked out on the latter part in that he got enough goal support that it wasn't a disaster.  

 

However, I can't recall a Devils' team that got outplayed on an every night basis as much as this one, and it's difficult to see what he can do to change that.  I don't think the game has "passed him by."  It's clear that he realizes what the problems are.  He's just probably too old, and perhaps too attached to certain players that if a real rebuild needs to happen, better it be with someone else.  If he's still got the "special sauce" this is the time to use it. 

 

Next year isn't the worst time to hit rock bottom, or be close to it anyway.  While not McDavid and Eichel, there is a good amount of buzz surrounding the top 3 or 4 projected picks. 

[Devil Dan 56]

I guess another year is what the owners are thinking, but if he "stepped down" in the next few weeks, I'd be ok with that too. I don't blame Lou too much, since all good runs come to an end in sports and it usually gets messy when it does, but eh... it just feels like it's time for a new identity.

[MadDog2020]

My opinion on whether Lou still has it or not will pretty much hinge on what happens this summer.

[EdgeControl]

Ive been saying all along he gets this years draft and nexts.  that should be two decent drafts and a few good FA moves. next years moves are key as the vets all come off the books.  imo he will need to move a top D-man

 

if we dont see much out of these next two years he's gone!

[devilsrule33]

I'd fire him if I was an owner. This is such an important off-season for the organization, and there's just a few things observations/thoughts about Lou/direction.

 

1) There is no liaison between the GM and ownership. For years that might have been fine, but I really wish Lamoriello had to report to a President who reported to the owners. Right now, it's just trust in a very successful hockey man to give him space and hopefully turn it around

 

2) There are simply not enough hockey people around Lou to help him turn this around. You look around the league and you watch GMs with a handful of assistants with them watching a game. For years it was Lou in his box alone. It still pretty much is. If the Devils want to turn it around the way Lou wants to, they need to be damn sure they are targeting the right players in trades, or it could be a disaster. I just don't trust Lou to make the right trades with a lot of the organizations around the league.

 

3) I think by a few weeks into July we'll know right away how out of touch Lamoriello is. This team needs to sink or swim with a younger group of players. The forward core is a mess, and his add two new forward strategy to compete is not realistic in my opinion without hurting the team even more.

 

4) Not sure if anyone has ready Larry Robinson's biography. The last few chapters are on his time with the Devils. It's a light read with a few interesting tidbits. At the very end he talks about a quote that Lou Lamoriello instilled in him when he was with the organization. It's not going to be verbatim, but the gist of it is...To be successful, you have to separate the player from the person. Even if you like the person and his effort, you still have to know if he can help you or not. It's never the person failing or succeeding.

 

That was Lou's mantra, and lately, it seems he only follows that when it comes to coaches (maybe not even that this off-season). He's probably as guilty as anyone of going after his guys, and keeping around the person and not the player.

 

5) I'm of the belief that the organization needs to take a step back before it steps forward, or maybe it can still go forward without actively trying to. Not sure that will ever be in Lou's cards if he has the resources to improve the team. The Devils need more top talent from the draft, and more assets. I'd trade Elias in the off-season. Not sure what else one could realistically do.

 

6) One more thing, like a great player losing it to father time, that's what I see from Lou. What he did to make the Devils successful has to be overlooked at this point. Lou was one way ahead of the curve in every aspect of running an organization. He's not anymore. The great drafts, trades, college free agent signings, bringing over players from USSR and Russia in the early 90s are no longer relevant for judging him in 2015. If Lou had brought on 3-4 smart hockey minds to work under him, maybe I'd see it differently. But he hasn't. Only Martin Brodeur can save us...

Edited April 10, 2015 by devilsrule33

[Triumph]

There's a lot of issues about Lou's future that are going to be very difficult to address.

 

1:  There's no successor in the organization.  Chris Lamoriello isn't going to be hired as the GM if his dad is fired.  That means someone outside the organization and it means overhauling basically everything in an off-season.  That's going to be extremely difficult.  They would have to fire Lou immediately after Game 82, basically, and have his successor in place immediately.  That doesn't seem likely.

 

2:  If Lou does stay, for how long does he stay?   If they miss the playoffs again next year, can they really stick with him?  Why let him make a coaching hire if that's the case?  Would this be his last coaching hire if it's unsuccessful (and it's almost certain to be)?

 

Okay, so then let's imagine the other scenario - they don't fire him but they kick him upstairs and take away the GM title and hire someone else.  How would that work?  Would Lou actually cede authority on day to day player moves?  And who could they bring in who would work under this scenario?  Who does Lou know?  One of the biggest things I'm beginning to see with Lou is that since he's been working non-stop for 25 years is that it seems like a lot of his contacts in the game are people his age - does he know anyone 50 and under who wasn't a former Devil who could be the GM of this team?  Even 60 and under?  

 

All of this is working towards the idea that Lou's got to be feeling pressure to save his job and may make some rash moves as a result.  I sure hope not.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Triumph

[Daniel]

I'd fire him if I was an owner. This is such an important off-season for the organization, and there's just a few things observations/thoughts about Lou/direction.

 

1) There is no liaison between the GM and ownership. For years that might have been fine, but I really wish Lamoriello had to report to a President who reported to the owners. Right now, it's just trust in a very successful hockey man to give him space and hopefully turn it around

 

2) There are simply not enough hockey people around Lou to help him turn this around. You look around the league and you watch GMs with a handful of assistants with them watching a game. For years it was Lou in his box alone. It still pretty much is. If the Devils want to turn it around the way Lou wants to, they need to be damn sure they are targeting the right players in trades, or it could be a disaster. I just don't trust Lou to make the right trades with a lot of the organizations around the league.

 

3) I think by a few weeks into July we'll know right away how out of touch Lamoriello is. This team needs to sink or swim with a younger group of players. The forward core is a mess, and his add two new forward strategy to compete is not realistic in my opinion without hurting the team even more.

 

4) Not sure if anyone has ready Larry Robinson's biography. The last few chapters are on his time with the Devils. It's a light read with a few interesting tidbits. At the very end he talks about a quote that Lou Lamoriello taught him. It's not going to be verbatim, but the gist of it is...To be successful, you have to separate the player from the person. Even if you like the person and his effort, you still have to know if he can help you or not. It's never the person failing or succeeding.

 

That was Lou's mantra, and lately, it seems he only follows that when it comes to coaches (maybe not even that this off-season). He's probably as guilty as anyone of going after his guys, and keeping around the person and not the player.

 

5) Lastly, I'm of the belief that the organization needs to take a step back before it steps forward, or maybe it can still go forward without actively trying to. Not sure that will ever be in Lou's cards if he has the resources to improve the team. The Devils need more top talent from the draft, and more assets. I'd trade Elias in the off-season. Not sure what else one could realistically do.

 

I mean, I should have said there's a caveat where if there are clear signs he's going batsh!t (like trading the first pick for Tyler Bozak or taking Noah Hanifin if the Devils win the lottery), or that we're a MSL away from competing for the Cup, then you pull the plug immediately.  I'm more going on what he's said up to this point where he seems to understand what the problems are.

[SterioDesign]

I'd fire him if I was an owner. This is such an important off-season for the organization, and there's just a few things observations/thoughts about Lou/direction.

 

1) There is no liaison between the GM and ownership. For years that might have been fine, but I really wish Lamoriello had to report to a President who reported to the owners. Right now, it's just trust in a very successful hockey man to give him space and hopefully turn it around

 

2) There are simply not enough hockey people around Lou to help him turn this around. You look around the league and you watch GMs with a handful of assistants with them watching a game. For years it was Lou in his box alone. It still pretty much is. If the Devils want to turn it around the way Lou wants to, they need to be damn sure they are targeting the right players in trades, or it could be a disaster. I just don't trust Lou to make the right trades with a lot of the organizations around the league.

 

3) I think by a few weeks into July we'll know right away how out of touch Lamoriello is. This team needs to sink or swim with a younger group of players. The forward core is a mess, and his add two new forward strategy to compete is not realistic in my opinion without hurting the team even more.

 

4) Not sure if anyone has ready Larry Robinson's biography. The last few chapters are on his time with the Devils. It's a light read with a few interesting tidbits. At the very end he talks about a quote that Lou Lamoriello taught him. It's not going to be verbatim, but the gist of it is...To be successful, you have to separate the player from the person. Even if you like the person and his effort, you still have to know if he can help you or not. It's never the person failing or succeeding.

 

That was Lou's mantra, and lately, it seems he only follows that when it comes to coaches (maybe not even that this off-season). He's probably as guilty as anyone of going after his guys, and keeping around the person and not the player.

 

5) Lastly, I'm of the belief that the organization needs to take a step back before it steps forward, or maybe it can still go forward without actively trying to. Not sure that will ever be in Lou's cards if he has the resources to improve the team. The Devils need more top talent from the draft, and more assets. I'd trade Elias in the off-season. Not sure what else one could realistically do.

 

 

Good post. I'm on the fence really, im really curious to see what Lou would do this summer plus all the "observations" he did as a coach late in the season, that's kind of useless if he's fired before the draft.

 

But at the same time he and Conte did bad enough to justify thinking "well we NEED to have a good summer/draft and i simply don't trust that team anymore based on past results.

 

Then Lou showed that he's simply not willing to make certain kind of moves that could be super important. Like i mentioned yesterday, Sather's moves with Zucc, Stephan and Dubinsky were PRIMORDIALE to the team's actual success, they were precisely the moves he HAD to make and he did it. But Lou would not even consider making these moves, guaranteeing the worst outcome possible or at least a huge gamble where you can lose it all, that's a big big big problem.

[HellOnICE]

What are you talking about SD? What moves with Zucc, Stepan and Dubinsky are you specifically referring to? Trade Dubi? 

 

I don't have too much of an issue with what Lou has done in recent years, he's made the most out of a sh!tty situation generally. Everyone's made mistakes, but his haven't been too glaring and he's done a good job with the goaltending and defense transition. 

 

I'm more in line with Tri, as usual, where I think we need to start getting younger people in the organization who can get this ship in order. I mean, LL is 73, a transition needs to start ASAP. 

[sokar]

I wonder if Lou if going to stay one more so he can train Brodeur on how to be a GM

[SterioDesign]

What are you talking about SD? What moves with Zucc, Stepan and Dubinsky are you specifically referring to? Trade Dubi? 

 

I don't have too much of an issue with what Lou has done in recent years, he's made the most out of a sh!tty situation generally. Everyone's made mistakes, but his haven't been too glaring and he's done a good job with the goaltending and defense transition. 

 

I'm more in line with Tri, as usual, where I think we need to start getting younger people in the organization who can get this ship in order. I mean, LL is 73, a transition needs to start ASAP. 

 

Really? i've been over this like 20, 000 times already and no one want to hear it again lol but wtv...

 

He basically gave them all an ultimatum to make sure he was not losing them for nothing and made sure to be getting a return for them if he couldnt keep them, they approached the player at the right time too. Same with Shero with Letang and Staal.

 

 

I mean it's really not as if i never mentioned this lol but even though we don't like them, those 2 GM proved that you need to make those moves. They kept control of their assets all along. Lou tends to run things the ground and give full control to the players to walk or not, not protecting his assets at all, if they want to re-sign already well its no problem. But if they are on the fence, its guarantee they'll test the market or walk. Other GMs are not letting this happen.

 

Lou is and NJ is the team who have let the most talent walk for nothing in the last 10 years and by far. And it's mostly because of that. Its not cause Lou is dumb or doesnt know what he's doing, he's just sticking to an approach that doesnt work anymore that loyalty is mostly gone.

Edited April 10, 2015 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

I agree that Lou has had to make the best out of sh!tty situations more times than not the last 3-4 years, but at this point with contracts coming off the books and now has free reign to spend to the cap there shouldn't be any more excuses/issues.  I would give him at least the off-season and if he doesn't seem to be completely off his rocker then I would give him next season as well.

 

The one thing I am worried about is that it seems as though he is running out of ideas.  Over the past 5 or so years is seems his great fixes often involve bringing in over the hill former Devils with varying successes.  For every Sykora, there is a Sullivan, Poni 2.0 and Holik right behind it.  If his grand move this off-season is to target over the hill UFA or bring back someone like Oduya, I would say it is time for him to be let go.

[Derlique]

I agree that Lou has had to make the best out of sh!tty situations more times than not the last 3-4 years, but at this point with contracts coming off the books and now has free reign to spend to the cap there shouldn't be any more excuses/issues. I would give him at least the off-season and if he doesn't seem to be completely off his rocker then I would give him next season as well.

The one thing I am worried about is that it seems as though he is running out of ideas. Over the past 5 or so years is seems his great fixes often involve bringing in over the hill former Devils with varying successes. For every Sykora, there is a Sullivan, Poni 2.0 and Holik right behind it. If his grand move this off-season is to target over the hill UFA or bring back someone like Oduya, I would say it is time for him to be let go.

Right. Yeah, he's going to have nearly 20 million to play with, but with the new CBA making it infinitely more difficult to keep players, who are you going to spend it on that will make a difference? There aren't any top line UFAs out there anymore a la Hossa, Kovalchuk, Gaborik and Parise.

[DevsMan84]

Right. Yeah, he's going to have nearly 20 million to play with, but with the new CBA making it infinitely more difficult to keep players, who are you going to spend it on that will make a difference? There aren't any top line UFAs out there anymore a la Hossa, Kovalchuk, Gaborik and Parise.

 

I don't expect fixes in the UFA pool anymore.  Those days of getting a top player are gone.  My point is while he doesn't have to spend to the cap, he does have that option.  The players that really matter right now are all pretty much locked up into long term contracts for the foreseeable future.  He just has one less excuse now.

[Triumph]

When you compare the ex-Devil signings/trades to the non-ex-Devil signings/trades, it's not like one is better.  Acquiring old players is a gamble that rarely pays off.  That's why having a lot of money available isn't even a good thing this off-season unless he can really pull some kind of coup.  

 

Sather has carte blanche from his owner as far as I know, and Dolan doesn't seem that meddlesome on the hockey side.  I don't think that was the case with Jeff Vanderbeek.

 

Anyway, that's not really what this thread is about.  I don't think an attachment to certain players is what is dragging this team down, and I think we'll see that this off-season, I don't think there's a ton of sentimentality here - Lou has jettisoned lots of people he's liked quite recently.  The asset base is just stripped clean - since 2005 (so that's 10 drafts between then and the 2014 draft), the Devils have had 7 1st round picks - of those picks, 2 were outside the bottom 10 of the 1st round.  They've had 10 2nd round picks.  It's hard to keep picking up players this way - Detroit has managed it, but even they're not Detroit anymore.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Triumph

[Jerzey]

Personally I just think this franchise needs a face lift. They have a good core, and Lou is responsible for that, but I'd like to see a little more excitement brought into our system. I don't think Lou care at all about the entertainment aspect of the sport. I think we have players (and have had players and can draft players) who can make the game fun to watch we just need to let them.

 

Defense wins championships, and can also almost get your team relocated twice.

[EdgeControl]

every organization needs a succession plan. but if you bring in an experienced GM, or a top scout who has been involved in the league, I don't think the transition should be that difficult. the candidate needs a fundamental knowledge of the system he thinks best to be successful.

 

btw, in the last two weeks we've seen matteau and boucher go from life long AHL fodder, to possible top 6 NHLers

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

At the end of the season Marty returns to his rightful place in New Jersey. Lou starts training him. 2 years time when hopefully things are on the up Lou retires and Brodeur takes us forward.

[Jerzey]

At the end of the season Marty returns to his rightful place in New Jersey. Lou starts training him. 2 years time when hopefully things are on the up Lou retires and Brodeur takes us forward.

Too much of Lou's influence IMO. WHen Lou goes I'd like for the owners to use that opportunity to make some changes to the hockey operations. Some old traditions need to go.

[Daniel]

At the end of the season Marty returns to his rightful place in New Jersey. Lou starts training him. 2 years time when hopefully things are on the up Lou retires and Brodeur takes us forward.

 

I really want no part of Marty as the GM.  I'm willing to risk that he turns out being one of the better executives in the game, as he could prove very difficult to fire if it turns out to be a disaster. 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Too much of Lou's influence IMO. WHen Lou goes I'd like for the owners to use that opportunity to make some changes to the hockey operations. Some old traditions need to go.

I think Marty is enough of his own man to be happy to make changes and have his own ideas. Whilst at the same time carrying on some of the traditions and values of the team.

[MadDog2020]

At the end of the season Marty returns to his rightful place in New Jersey. Lou starts training him. 2 years time when hopefully things are on the up Lou retires and Brodeur takes us forward.

No... Please. No. Lou's replacement needs to be from the outside. He also needs to not be trained or influenced in any way by Lou.

I think Marty is enough of his own man to be happy to make changes and have his own ideas. Whilst at the same time carrying on some of the traditions and values of the team.

Then let Marty do what Hextall did and learn how to be a GM somewhere else, only returning once he's experienced and management-savvy enough to run his own team.

[Jerzey]

I think Marty is enough of his own man to be happy to make changes and have his own ideas. Whilst at the same time carrying on some of the traditions and values of the team.

You're probably right, I don't think two years with Lou is necessary though. I'm hoping he learns a lot while he's in St. Louis. It's good that he's seeing how another successful organization runs.

[William D'Aquila]

I agree that Lou has had to make the best out of sh!tty situations more times than not the last 3-4 years, but at this point with contracts coming off the books and now has free reign to spend to the cap there shouldn't be any more excuses/issues.  I would give him at least the off-season and if he doesn't seem to be completely off his rocker then I would give him next season as well.

 

The one thing I am worried about is that it seems as though he is running out of ideas.  Over the past 5 or so years is seems his great fixes often involve bringing in over the hill former Devils with varying successes.  For every Sykora, there is a Sullivan, Poni 2.0 and Holik right behind it.  If his grand move this off-season is to target over the hill UFA or bring back someone like Oduya, I would say it is time for him to be let go.

 

How did those moves set back the organization in any way?

Too much of Lou's influence IMO. WHen Lou goes I'd like for the owners to use that opportunity to make some changes to the hockey operations. Some old traditions need to go.

 

What is wrong with Lou's influence? Explain further, and if your answer is that he missed the playoffs the last 3 years, I will rightly laugh at you.

[SterioDesign]

 

What is wrong with Lou's influence? Explain further, and if your answer is that he missed the playoffs the last 3 years, I will rightly laugh at you.

 

Basically his methods and ideas are stuck in the past, he's not willing to adjust.