HellOnICE Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Not sure that's accurate Tri. We don't have that title, but I would assume Pellegrini and Little Lou are those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Im absolutely done talking about this. there's no point. You guys go around all the fvcking points im making. Good. Also, you still never told us any of these playoff teams that traded assets. Should be easy since you said every other team does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't agree with that - Lou turns 73 this year, and many or most people that old in hockey who have very long track records of success had retired or have part-time gigs. Scotty Bowman retired at 69. Bill Torrey retired at 67. Sinden was out as Bruins president at 74, and was out as GM at 68. Obviously if the Devils were in the playoffs, we wouldn't be talking about it on April 14th, but it'd be something that would be discussed. Plus, as has been said a lot, the Devils don't have AGMs, and every other team in the league AFAIK does. If Sather retires, and he's the same age, the Rangers have someone working in that office who can theoretically replace him. The Devils don't. I have a feeling, from the way they were talking at his retirement, that Marty may be the guy they are looking to bring in as an assistant GM. I don't have a clue how good or bad of an idea that is, but it may be where they are heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't agree with that - Lou turns 73 this year, and many or most people that old in hockey who have very long track records of success had retired or have part-time gigs. Scotty Bowman retired at 69. Bill Torrey retired at 67. Sinden was out as Bruins president at 74, and was out as GM at 68. Obviously if the Devils were in the playoffs, we wouldn't be talking about it on April 14th, but it'd be something that would be discussed. Plus, as has been said a lot, the Devils don't have AGMs, and every other team in the league AFAIK does. If Sather retires, and he's the same age, the Rangers have someone working in that office who can theoretically replace him. The Devils don't. What don't you agree with specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Good. Also, you still never told us any of these playoff teams that traded assets. Should be easy since you said every other team does it. Every teams look into or "lock up their core player before the deadline" thats what im saying. They all do it so there's no need to trade them and why you don't see it often or they trade their players the summer before. If you'd read what im writing you wouldnt ask. And i never said to do it every single time either. Just fvcking look into it. Florida traded Fleischmann this year, San jose trade Clowe, Stempniak, Luongo, Jordan Staal, are you telling me you're not agreeing that it's not smart to get your players signed BEFORE the deadline so that you don't risk losing them? Is that really what you're saying here? That's its TOTALLY worth it to wait after the season risking to lose them. And totally justified to not protect your assets simply cause you're in the playoffs? Again, no other teams in the league have let that much talent simply walk. Not sure how many time im gonna have to bring this up. Sure bring in the "this one wanted to go home" and "this one wanted too much money"... lol a smart GM figure that out sooner and deal with it. If the guy wants out or won't be re-sign, flip it for assets are the right time. I simply don't see how anyone here can argue that. You just keep on missing the big picture here. You focus on small things in what im saying missing the big picture. No one here answered my damn question still Edited April 14, 2015 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 What don't you agree with specifically? "That being said, we all know if the Devils were still making the playoffs every year, no one's bringing up Lou's age." I don't agree and laid out my reasons for why I don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Every teams look into or "lock up their core player before the deadline" thats what im saying. They all do it so there's no need to trade them and why you don't see it often or they trade their players the summer before. If you'd read what im writing you wouldnt ask. Florida traded Fleischmann this year, San jose trade Clowe, Stempniak, Luongo, Jordan Staal, are you telling me you're not agreeing that it's not smart to get your players signed BEFORE the deadline so that you don't risk losing them? Is that really what you're saying here? That's its TOTALLY worth it to wait after the season risking to lose them. You just keep on missing the big picture here. You focus on small things in what im saying missing the big picture. No one here answered my damn question still No, I'm not saying it isn't smart. I'm saying you can screw yourself doing it for every upcoming UFA. Trying to sign the major franchise player flight risks makes a ton of sense, of course. But if you don't sign them and then trade them instead of going into the playoffs with your best team, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. You overestimate the trade market, as well. Since the new CBA, Schneider, Zajac, Henrique, etc, have all been signed before they went to free agency. So, what the hell is the problem? Why are you doing this again? It's a thread about Lou's future, and here you are complaining about losing people like Mark Fayne and David Clarkson. Every team has UFA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 No, I'm not saying it isn't smart. I'm saying you can screw yourself doing it for every upcoming UFA. Trying to sign the major franchise player flight risks makes a ton of sense, of course. But if you don't sign them and then trade them instead of going into the playoffs with your best team, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. You overestimate the trade market, as well. Since the new CBA, Schneider, Zajac, Henrique, etc, have all been signed before they went to free agency. So, what the hell is the problem? Why are you doing this again? It's a thread about Lou's future, and here you are complaining about losing people like Mark Fayne and David Clarkson. Every team has UFA's. Why im doing this again? you asked me and i answered lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 "That being said, we all know if the Devils were still making the playoffs every year, no one's bringing up Lou's age." I don't agree and laid out my reasons for why I don't agree. A lot more people are bringing it up now because the Devils aren't a playoff team any more, and his age represents different negatives to different people (maybe he won't have the energy or he'll start having health issues even though he's fine right now, maybe he'll make decisions based on factors that don't have as much to do with what's best for the on-ice product as they should, etc). But yeah, my post made it sound like no one at all would've brought up Lou's age if the team was still winning, which probably isn't accurate. You didn't really address that part of it...you listed a bunch of guys who hung onto to gigs into their late-60s/early 70s. I don't know how much discussion about those guys' futures was going on among the fans in each of those markets. I don't remember if those guys hinted at retirement before they finally did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 A lot more people are bringing it up now because the Devils aren't a playoff team any more, and his age represents different negatives to different people (maybe he won't have the energy or he'll start having health issues even though he's fine right now, maybe he'll make decisions based on factors that don't have as much to do with what's best for the on-ice product as they should, etc). But yeah, my post made it sound like no one at all would've brought up Lou's age if the team was still winning, which probably isn't accurate. You didn't really address that part of it...you listed a bunch of guys who hung onto to gigs into their late-60s/early 70s. I don't know how much discussion about those guys' futures was going on among the fans in each of those markets. I don't remember if those guys hinted at retirement before they finally did it. Sather's age isn't brought up a lot, but that's because he's got the Rangers as a Cup contender. He is also blowing this team out - they are probably going to coast towards irrelevance in the next 5 years as their best players get more expensive and their farm system stops turning out talent (because they don't have a 1st round pick in 3 straight drafts). They're still going to be pretty good for a while, and could very well win a Stanley Cup in that time, but if they don't, I imagine some Ranger fans are bringing up Sather's age in 6-7 years when the team is mediocre or worse. I only bring up Lou's age because if he's getting close to the end, does he really want to spend his time building up a foundation for his successor? Or does he want one last championship? HOI: They don't have the title AGM though. I understand what you're saying, but they very rarely speak publicly - I guess Chris does to the Albany papers sometimes, but Steve certainly never does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 A lot more people are bringing it up now because the Devils aren't a playoff team any more, and his age represents different negatives to different people (maybe he won't have the energy or he'll start having health issues even though he's fine right now, maybe he'll make decisions based on factors that don't have as much to do with what's best for the on-ice product as they should, etc). But yeah, my post made it sound like no one at all would've brought up Lou's age if the team was still winning, which probably isn't accurate. You didn't really address that part of it...you listed a bunch of guys who hung onto to gigs into their late-60s/early 70s. I don't know how much discussion about those guys' futures was going on among the fans in each of those markets. I don't remember if those guys hinted at retirement before they finally did it. Well i really don't think it's unfair to bring it up and it's not because we're not in the playoffs. If i'd go on a month long road trip and my buddy would pick me up in a 1992 rusty Sunfire. He could go on and on about how he never got any problems with it, that it runs well and that he changed the oil right before the trip and all... still pretty fair IMO to at least be suspicious a little lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Well, Chiarelli was fired, so there's a candidate for Lou's successor if he'd be willing to take some assistant position until Lou retires. Overall, I think he did a great job in Boston, the big exception being the Seguin trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellOnICE Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The Seguin trade is something Lou has never done and we don't take into account...when has Lou ever lost a trade? Nothing like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 The Seguin trade is something Lou has never done and we don't take into account...when has Lou ever lost a trade? Nothing like that. You'd have to go all the way back to the Paul Ysabart trade for something that's remotely comparable. Still, I wouldn't judge anyone on one deal, especially when he's otherwise done a great job. If anything, it might be a good thing to learn from a mistake like that. I think about it a little further, and I think the Devils have a shot only if Lou steps down or is fired relatively soon, or if Chiarelli has such an enormous respect for Lou that he'd be willing to be an assistant of sorts for a year or so. Enough teams will want to hire him though, so I think it's unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think if Lou was fired, it would've happened by now. Looks like it's still his ship to right. I can't decide if that's good or bad. Probably won't be able to until I see what his MO is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) You'd have to go all the way back to the Paul Ysabart trade for something that's remotely comparable. Still, I wouldn't judge anyone on one deal, especially when he's otherwise done a great job. If anything, it might be a good thing to learn from a mistake like that. I think about it a little further, and I think the Devils have a shot only if Lou steps down or is fired relatively soon, or if Chiarelli has such an enormous respect for Lou that he'd be willing to be an assistant of sorts for a year or so. Enough teams will want to hire him though, so I think it's unlikely. Chiarelli isn't coming here to be Lou's coffee guy. He'll have plenty of suitors, not the least of which is Ottawa (where he worked before Boston), what with Bryan Murray probably stepping down soon. Edited April 15, 2015 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I will judge someone on one deal when it's giving up on a superstar player signed to a good contract. This isn't letting go of Martin St. Louis after he had a bad year for your team - this is taking a top player, extrapolating from one playoff run (where he had 3+ shots a game in 16 minutes of average ice time), and deciding that he's worth trading. The hilarious part is that all the other top brass in Boston agreed with the trade and they're all still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 I will judge someone on one deal when it's giving up on a superstar player signed to a good contract. This isn't letting go of Martin St. Louis after he had a bad year for your team - this is taking a top player, extrapolating from one playoff run (where he had 3+ shots a game in 16 minutes of average ice time), and deciding that he's worth trading. The hilarious part is that all the other top brass in Boston agreed with the trade and they're all still there. Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, but for the fact that he otherwise had a very good track record as GM. He built a winner pretty quickly and without the benefit of lucking into a generational talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, but for the fact that he otherwise had a very good track record as GM. He built a winner pretty quickly and without the benefit of lucking into a generational talent. Did he draft Bergeron? Nope. Did he draft Krejci? Nope. Did he find Tim Thomas? Nope. In fact, hilariously, Larry Brooks raked their ex-GM over the coals for signing Thomas as a 'parting gift' (much as he chastised Tampa for signing 'checking line center' Martin St. Louis to a 3 year deal back in 2002). Signing Chara and Savard - great moves out of the gate. Trading Raycroft for Tuukka Rask - another great move. They built a winner, and he made some excellent moves to get there. Still, lately he's got winner's disease and tried to keep everyone he likes, which is impossible in this era. He picked wrong between Seidenberg and Boychuk. He picked wrong between Jagr and Iginla. He signed Peverley and Kelly to deals that were too big. The Bruins can and will bounce back - Pastarnak looks like a potential star - but if they keep valuing Gritty McGrits over scorers, their Cup contending days are probably over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Did he draft Bergeron? Nope. Did he draft Krejci? Nope. Did he find Tim Thomas? Nope. In fact, hilariously, Larry Brooks raked their ex-GM over the coals for signing Thomas as a 'parting gift' (much as he chastised Tampa for signing 'checking line center' Martin St. Louis to a 3 year deal back in 2002). Signing Chara and Savard - great moves out of the gate. Trading Raycroft for Tuukka Rask - another great move. They built a winner, and he made some excellent moves to get there. Still, lately he's got winner's disease and tried to keep everyone he likes, which is impossible in this era. He picked wrong between Seidenberg and Boychuk. He picked wrong between Jagr and Iginla. He signed Peverley and Kelly to deals that were too big. The Bruins can and will bounce back - Pastarnak looks like a potential star - but if they keep valuing Gritty McGrits over scorers, their Cup contending days are probably over. The Phil Kessell trade was also an excellent move, but for the fact that he later shot himself in the foot by trading Seguin. I also don't see how he picked wrong between Iginla and Jagr. The team did, in fact, win the President's trophy last year, and Iginila scored 30 goals. He also doesn't seem to overrate "grit and leadership" as much as you think. Peverly did after all get traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The Phil Kessell trade was also an excellent move, but for the fact that he later shot himself in the foot by trading Seguin. I also don't see how he picked wrong between Iginla and Jagr. The team did, in fact, win the President's trophy last year, and Iginila scored 30 goals. He also doesn't seem to overrate "grit and leadership" as much as you think. Peverly did after all get traded. Peverley got traded because the Bruins had an enormous cap crunch coming - they used that money to do all kinds of dumb stuff, and they're still in trouble cap wise. I don't think the Kessel move is that good. It worked out great but it could've just as easily turned Kessel into 2 average players or even worse. Meanwhile the Bruins the season after making that move were 29th in scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) No one mentioned it but he also lost one of his top player (Savard) and had absolutely no control over it. Honestly though if Chiarelli really "deserved" to get caned. Lou can thank the lord he still has a job. The Seguin trade was really not great but he still got Erikkson who scored 22 goals and got 47 points this year. Seguin got 77 pts Edited April 15, 2015 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Making the playoffs in 2017 while hanging on to their 1st round picks in 2015 and 2016 should be the goal. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Dude traded Wheeler, Kessel, and Seguin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Dude traded Wheeler, Kessel, and Seguin. Yeah so what? What does that mean exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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