hystyk28 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I didn't say anything about a trade with Edmonton. You just said our Defense is mediocre, our defense is going to be very good, I think you are underestimating how young they are is all. And you are right this team is going to suck again next year, and the year after that and probably the following year. We need an entire top 6. And until we hit rock bottom we probably wont really rebuild our forward corps the way it needs to be done. The title of the thread was what would you trade for McDavid and the topic of the young D came up. I wonder what percent of Stanley Cup winningrosters consist of homegrown talent? Edited April 20, 2015 by hystyk28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 2015 1st (6th overall) 2016 1st Florida 2nd Cammy Severson Would probably get Edmonton listening. But: 1) I wouldn't offer that for the next coming of Jesus Christ himself, and 2) EDM could get much beter offers than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 2015 1st (6th overall) 2016 1st Florida 2nd Cammy Severson Would probably get Edmonton listening. But: 1) I wouldn't offer that for the next coming of Jesus Christ himself, and 2) EDM could get much beter offers than that. There's not a chance in hell Edmonton listens to that. Lou would get laughed off the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) The only way a team can swing something like this is if they have an insane amount of depth and young talent ready to go. The Devils don't have it. By the time they could put together a package Edmonton would even consider, the Devils would be an expansion team with one generational talent and not much of a way to improve upon it for the foreseeable future, as they will probably have to give up a few first-rounders (probably this pick and 2016 and 2017) to go along with the talent that could help the Oilers right away (like Schneider, though obviously Schneider + a gaggle of picks won't be anywhere near enough to get this done...but no way would Schneider not be a part of any deal for McDavid). The last thing the Devils can afford to do is to not have any first-rounders for a while. Edited April 20, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The only way a team can swing something like this is if they have an insane amount of depth and young talent ready to go. The Devils don't have it. By the time they could put together a package Edmonton would even consider, the Devils would be an expansion team with one generational talent and not much of a way to improve upon it for the foreseeable future, as they will probably have to give up a few first-rounders (probably this pick and 2016 and 2017) to go along with the talent that could help the Oilers right away (like Schneider, though obviously Schneider + a gaggle of picks won't be anywhere near enough to get this done...but no way would Schneider not be a part of any deal for McDavid). The last thing the Devils can afford to do is to not have any first-rounders for a while. The Devils don't look much better than an expansion team as is. I'm honestly not sure it's impossible to put a better expansion group together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneax Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The title of the thread was what would you trade for McDavid and the topic of the young D came up. I wonder what percent of Stanley Cup winningrosters consist of homegrown talent? Just because the title of the thread is about a trade doesn't mean I was refrencing it at all. You know this and every post is a discussion. You brought up our d being mediocre, which I think is an inaccurate read given their extreme youth which you overlooked in your assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The Devils don't look much better than an expansion team as is. I'm honestly not sure it's impossible to put a better expansion group together. The Devils have a top goalie signed to a reasonable long-term deal. Some young defensemen with upside. They will lose the goalie in a deal for McDavid and don't have another one in the system. They will lose picks needed to bring in young forwards. At least right now there's means to add desperately needed young talent through the draft and possibly through trades. If the Devils go all-in on McDavid, how do they build around him for the first 2-4 years they have him? McDavid could spend the first 3-5 years playing on a god-awful team that will have a hell of a time getting better. Yeah, the Devils look bad right now, but at least as long as they don't make any bad "right now" deals, they can at least start to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 There's not a chance in hell Edmonton listens to that. Lou would get laughed off the phone. Huh, you really think two (presumably) early 1sts, 2nd, a blue-chip D prospect, and top-6 forward isn't even a starting point? If that's the consensus, that's insanity then and, as others have said, there's really nothing the Devils could offer to even make it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Huh, you really think two (presumably) early 1sts, 2nd, a blue-chip D prospect, and top-6 forward isn't even a starting point? If that's the consensus, that's insanity then and, as others have said, there's really nothing the Devils could offer to even make it interesting. Its not close. Schneider and Severson would have to be included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The Devils have a top goalie signed to a reasonable long-term deal. Some young defensemen with upside. They will lose the goalie in a deal for McDavid and don't have another one in the system. They will lose picks needed to bring in young forwards. At least right now there's means to add desperately needed young talent through the draft and possibly through trades. If the Devils go all-in on McDavid, how do they build around him for the first 2-4 years they have him? McDavid could spend the first 3-5 years playing on a god-awful team that will have a hell of a time getting better. Yeah, the Devils look bad right now, but at least as long as they don't make any bad "right now" deals, they can at least start to rebuild. [/quotis I want to be clear, I don't think it's possible to add mcdavid, and if it was I wouldn't be someone advocating going all in on him. What I'm saying is we wouldn't be any worse off if we threw everything at Edmonton for him. No goalie? Big deal. If we were going that route, you're right, we'd be bad at least the next three years. Give kinkaid the keys next season. Bring in every free agent goalie on the market. Play Wedge. Hell, play clermont. In three years we can find one competent guy, because that's all it takes. We'd lose one first round pick. Big deal. Right now we don't have a top 30 forward, and the prospects of that changing aren't great. Gut the franchise for a generational talent and we'd eventually find the pieces to surround him with and probably be a cup contender during his prime. Right now we could be closer to contending, but adding a mcdavid could be a better shot at sustained success way down the line. My point here is we essentially look like an expansion team as is. If mcdavid is as good as they say he is, we wouldn't be in a much worse position long term if we gutted the organization for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 thecoffeecake...it'd be a hell of a lot more than one first-round pick, as far as the picks part of the equation goes, and that's the big problem. You're probably going to have to give the Oilers a few first-rounders and some second-rounders, as the NHL talent you have to give them is minimal. You're giving them Schneider. And one or two young defensemen...Severson would be one of them. The Oilers might want Larsson too. And they'll probably want a piece or two that can help them immediately. Schneider and possibly Larsson fit that bill, but who else really does? Is all of this going to be enough, even with all of the picks? I know you made it clear you don't think it's possible to add McDavid anyway, but it's like I said, ideally you have tremendous organizational depth, where you don't have enough room for all of your talent to play at the NHL level, and can afford not to have picks for 2-3 years without feeling it. The Devils are at the opposite end of that spectrum. So basically, by the time you're done, you've given up a gaggle of picks that you can't really afford to give up, a top-tier goalie, at least one young defenseman and probably more. It'd probably take the Devils 5-6 years to begin to recover from that, and even then there's no guarantees that it might not take a little longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 In my opinion, Schneider is untouchable unless a top ten goalie is also coming back in the deal, or is signed via free agency. Otherwise, no deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 In my opinion, Schneider is untouchable unless a top ten goalie is also coming back in the deal, or is signed via free agency. Otherwise, no deal. It all goes back to the same thing...you can deal him if you have a top, can't-miss ready-for-the-NHL-right-now prospect in your system. Or you deal the prospect. If Edmonton already had a guy like that, why trade him for Schneider? The only reason you trade a guy like McDavid is if he makes it 100% clear he doesn't want to play for your franchise, and if you do that, you fill as many holes as possible with that deal...basically, what Quebec did when they dealt Lindros. Edmonton needs a goalie in the worst way, and defensemen too. And since Devils don't have much to give the Oilers that would help them right away, they can only sweeten the pot with a lot of draft picks that they can't afford to give up. And it sounds like this is all moot anyway, based on McDavid's quotes. Doesn't sound like he's planning on forcing a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redruM Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 IMHO you investigate a trade for some of the oilers other #1s, see what the cost would be there, McDavid, while I'd love to have him will be too expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 McDavid has said he will not be pulling a Lindros. The Oilers have said there is a a "less than zero percent" chance they're trading him. Time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim777 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 McDavid is evidently looking forward to playing with the 3 other #1 picks they have there. I'm guessing the Oilers will try hard to get McLellan, and trade one of the former #1's for defensive help. With the addition of McDavid and a good coach who has some say in personnel moves the Oilers may just have their missing piece. And even if they continue to wallow in sub-mediocrity, they will sell a billion McDavid jerseys, probably enough to cover whatever signing bonus they want to give him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roomtemp Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well then the kid is dumb if he's just going to let himself wallow in an unmarketable city and loser team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well then the kid is dumb if he's just going to let himself wallow in an unmarketable city and loser team. Or he was brought up the right way, rather than as a spoiled brat (See Lindros). What is to say this kid isn't so good that he doesn't make EDM the next Pitt? The Pens were bankrupt, an NHL afterthought, and about to move before they got Crosby. He changed the fortunes of that team and now they are on NBC broadcasts every other night and one of the most marketable teams in the league. Would you be saying the same thing if we won the lottery and were getting him instead of EDM? I highly doubt it, but we are almost as unmarketable as the Oilers, and last I checked our team is garbage and hasn't made the playoffs in 3 years so we aren't in a position to call another organization a bunch of losers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 One player wouldn't solve all this teams problems anyway. And the team would become considerably worse given the pieces we would have to give up. I think it would take stupid offers like Cory,Severson, two 1st and probably some more. Then we would just be left with all the crap on our roster and McDavid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) There's not a chance in hell Edmonton listens to that. Lou would get laughed off the phone. There's not a chance in hell Edmonton listens to that. Lou would get laughed off the phone.Lou will be laughed off the phone with any initial offer he makes to any other team because he doesn't have the assets to trade with his band aid fix to make the playoffs next season.As for McDavid trade forget about it, move on. Edited April 21, 2015 by BostonNala370 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well then the kid is dumb if he's just going to let himself wallow in an unmarketable city and loser team.Ridiculous. It's this type of entitled mentality that I will raise my kids to never have. Life sucks. Get a helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roomtemp Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Ridiculous. It's this type of entitled mentality that I will raise my kids to never have. Life sucks. Get a helmet. Life sucks more if you don't have the guts to do something about it as well. Or are you calling Bill Russell and a$$hole The owners would fvck over any player for a buck. This kid has the chance to make more money going somewhere else and help his career because he is that good and has the leverage to do so and people are literally begging him to do it. I have not heard any argument against this other then some bullsh!t of honoring the draft process which other players have played before so why would it be different now? Edited April 21, 2015 by roomtemp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyvegas51 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Anyone they want. Or two or three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewarkDevil5 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Life sucks more if you don't have the guts to do something about it as well. Or are you calling Bill Russell and a$$hole The owners would fvck over any player for a buck. This kid has the chance to make more money going somewhere else and help his career because he is that good and has the leverage to do so and people are literally begging him to do it. I have not heard any argument against this other then some bullsh!t of honoring the draft process which other players have played before so why would it be different now? There's more than one way out of a lousy situation. You're saying that it takes guts to look for the best circumstances for success and go there. I'm more inclined to believe that it takes more guts to believe that you yourself can change the circumstances around you and create the success through your own efforts. In the end it's not simply about the money. These are athletes. They play the game at the highest level in the world. They do things that others only dream of doing. If they didn't have the belief in themselves that they can make things happen they wouldn't be where they are today. There have been very few (Eric Lindros being the only one I can recall in hockey) that have done what you're talking about doing. There have been a few more that have found other ways to circumvent the way things are done (Mike Van Ryn being one of these), but these are the exceptions to the rule. Should Edmonton continue to be a Mickey Mouse franchise (yes, it feels good to say that the other way) and hogging up first overall picks? Well they're doing things to make that more unlikely with the new draft lottery rules starting next year. Think about it this way: the Devils and Penguins were both Mickey Mouse franchises (one was actually labeled as such by hockey's most renowned ambassador) and Mario Lemieux was on the line and Pittsburgh tanked to get him. If he had done what you're talking about that team wouldn't exist today. If Kirk Muller had walked away from an equally lousy New Jersey team who got him as the consolation prize you'd have no team to root for today. Scott Stevens initially wanted to act in exactly the way you're talking about when he was awarded to the Devils. There would have been no 1995 Cup and therefore no team had he done so. Mind you the Devils were worse for longer than the Oilers have been now. They didn't see the playoffs for the first 13 years of their existence. If you want players to look to only play for the bright lights and perceptions of success (because mind you, the Oilers have a richer history of success than the Devils do with 5 Cups to their credit) then you should just go root for an Original Six team and be done with it. You're on a Devils board so presumably you're a Devils fan. That means you're a fan of a team with no major media market backing it and whose success has been built on the very values and premises that you're denigrating as bullsh!t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Imagine if we could swap our forward group with EDM... id sign up for that every day of the week Hall - RNH - Eberle Pouliot - Lander - YakupovPurcell - McDavid - DraisaitlHendricks - Roy - KlinkhammerLarsson - Greene Severson - Merril Gelinas - Harrold Schneider Kinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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