The Rangers will win the 2017 Stanley Cup. It's a foregone conclus

[StarDew]

No other team had injured players

 

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/01/battered-defense-rangers-staal-mcdonagh-girardi-yandle-all-played-injured/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

I don't get the point of the author's article.  What was his point?  Was he looking for pity or an excuse for them?  I agree, all teams are battered throughout the playoffs.  Professionals deal with it.

[Triumph]

I agree with most of what you said. And my criticism of him this series does not include Game 7, he did EVERYTHING HE COULD to win that game, can't ask for anything more really. I just take issue with people putting him above criticism in the larger sense, as far as the series is concerned. At the end of the day, he was no better than Ben Bishop. You can point to the defense and the injuries, etc., but he wasn't good enough through 7 games, and 12 goals allowed in 2 games is as big of a reason that they lost as were the shutout losses/lack of offense.

 

I mean, Derek, in our/my defense I'm sure you can understand where we're coming from as you're on this board pretty often. Before this series, our beat writer Rich Chere is posting an opinion/poll piece about whether or not people think Henrik Lundqvist is better than Brodeur or Roy. All we could hear about in the New York media is how he is in that class of legendary all-time great players and how his game 7 record shows he is the most clutch goalie to ever live. That's been our reality for 6 weeks now. And I see a series like this and it's just a reminder that, no he's not. And yes, some of it is jealousy in the sense that Brodeur never got this amount of hype and respect in the tristate area, but a non-achieving goaltender is habitually compared to him, and even labeled as being better than him by the Rangers fans around us. So yes, it's frustrating, and a series like this happens, like it happens every year, and Henrik comes up short. Not in game 7, but in the wider sense of things. He came up short once he let in 12 goals in games 2 and 3 and the Lightning began to creep into the Rangers' heads.

 

I don't enjoy his failure, he is one of the classiest and humble and committed athletes in the game. But in the context of this rivalry, and ALL the garbage we have to hear from the other side on a daily and annual basis, we have to call a spade a spade at a time like this (and no, I don't go on Rangers boards and say this stuff, I do it here lol). Brodeur or Roy or Hasek in their early 30s would've won a Stanley Cup or two with this Rangers team, and that's the difference between them.

 

Brodeur almost never entered a playoff series with an inferior team.  It just didn't happen.  And when it did happen, he got beat.  Brodeur was phenomenal in some playoff years, but he was seldom the difference between winning and losing a series.  He never had a run where he took a mediocre team deep because of his terrific goaltending.  95, perhaps this can be argued, but I don't really think so, and even so, that team lost 4 games that playoff year.  He's beaten several Hall of Fame goalies in playoff series, so that's not really an issue.  He beat Lundqvist in 2012 and certainly played at least equal to him - Lundqvist had a great Game 1 that year but he definitely faltered there, and Brodeur was quite good in that series aside from a few clunkers.

 

Last year was the one year where the Rangers surrounded Lundqvist with a team almost as good as one of those Devils teams and they went to the Finals.  This year was their best shot, and if they miss next year, they're going to have a hard time in the future.  But anyone who thinks that's because of Lundqvist and that he's not one of the all-time greats because of this is missing the bigger picture.  

Edited June 2, 2015 by Triumph

[Louismydad]

Pretty sure Pittsburgh haf only injured players in that lineup lol

[Devil Dan 56]

I don't get the point of the author's article. What was his point? Was he looking for pity or an excuse for them? I agree, all teams are battered throughout the playoffs. Professionals deal with it.

I didn't get his point either. He didn't really attempt to make one. Maybe it was thrown together in frustration?

[DJ Eco]

Brodeur almost never entered a playoff series with an inferior team.  It just didn't happen.  

 

But this is what I don't get. Rangers were one of the most well put together teams in the league this year (and last year). They have probably the best defense in the league. It's certainly the most expensive defense in the league, salary-wise. Henrik is a top 3 goaltender in the league. They have the third leading scorer on offense. They have incredible speed up and down their lineup. Their depth has Martin St Louis on a third line. Put aside that some of these pieces underperformed, this is one of the best teams in the league in 2015. 

 

They NEEDED to make the Finals (again) or it was all one big failure, and Henrik's 6 goals a game in games 2 and 3 are a big reason, and should be a reason for scrutiny and criticism.

 

What am I missing? I don't know if you're trying to insinuate that these Rangers are an underdog or..?

Edited June 2, 2015 by DJ Eco

[DJ Eco]

But anyone who thinks that's because of Lundqvist and that he's not one of the all-time greats because of this is missing the bigger picture.  

 

Coming back to this... No, I'll be the first to say, based on the way they've played since round 1, he's the only reason they even made it this far. Same with the Finals last year. I can't peg exactly why, but there has been something missing in their play since before round 1 started. They weren't all that good against the depleted Penguins, and same with the Capitals. 

 

However, I will say this is one of the first series in a long time over his postseason career where I think he should share in at least some of the blame and criticism. The common talking point that he's somehow OWED a Stanley Cup by his team is hogwash. He had two stinkers in a row when the team and his fans needed him most. That's all I'm saying; he is not above criticism. In my opinion, this is one of the first times in his postseason career where his being super hard on himself is at least somewhat warranted.

Edited June 2, 2015 by DJ Eco

[Triumph]

But this is what I don't get. Rangers were one of the most well put together teams in the league this year (and last year). They have probably the best defense in the league. It's certainly the most expensive defense in the league, salary-wise. Henrik is a top 3 goaltender in the league. They have the third leading scorer on offense. They have incredible speed up and down their lineup. Their depth has Martin St Louis on a third line. Put aside that some of these pieces underperformed, this is one of the best teams in the league in 2015. 

 

They NEEDED to make the Finals (again) or it was all one big failure, and Henrik's 6 goals a game in games 2 and 3 are a big reason, and should be a reason for scrutiny and criticism.

 

What am I missing? I don't know if you're trying to insinuate that these Rangers are an underdog or..?

 

I'm not saying Lundqvist played amazing in this series but he played well enough for the Rangers to win.  The Rangers defense was atrocious - part of that is no doubt because Girardi and McDonagh were hurt, but the other part is that the Rangers' defense just isn't that good.  They're expensive, yes - McDonagh's a legit 1st pairing guy, but Girardi isn't despite being paid like one and played like one - he's more like Lyle Odelein.  Staal's okay.  Boyle's been pretty good.  Yandle never acclimated to his new team - not surprising - and Klein is still Klein.  They made a huge mistake not recognizing the value of Anton Stralman.

 

Lundqvist has a save percentage of around .930 the last 4 playoff years and yet he's 39-36 in the playoffs over that span.  It just can't be on him.  The Rangers' defense just isn't where it needs to be to win unless Lundqvist plays amazing.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Triumph

[BlueSkirt]

meh, Hate the Game, not the Player.    The "King" is obviously one of the top goalies in the NHL, has been for a some years & will be for still a few more.

 

It's a Team Sport, but....his career playoff record is underwater at 54 Wins against 56 losses, for a .490 career winning percentage.

His Playoff OT record is also quite bad.

In 2013 playoffs he had a .934 SV% and still the record was 5-7...so we can see that he's on a team that doesn't score much, but so are lots of goalies.

 

So, until he "does it all" he will be judged like QB John Elway was.  Once Elway won, and won twice, he then became seen as an All-Time Great.

 

Lundqvist still has time to win a Cup & cement his legacy, but until then...the post-season results fall far, far short of the expectations.

[DJ Eco]

I'm not saying Lundqvist played amazing in this series but he played well enough for the Rangers to win.  The Rangers defense was atrocious - part of that is no doubt because Girardi and McDonagh were hurt, but the other part is that the Rangers' defense just isn't that good.  They're expensive, yes - McDonagh's a legit 1st pairing guy, but Girardi isn't despite being paid like one and played like one - he's more like Lyle Odelein.  Staal's okay.  Boyle's been pretty good.  Yandle never acclimated to his new team - not surprising - and Klein is still Klein.  They made a huge mistake not recognizing the value of Anton Stralman.

 

Lundqvist has a save percentage of around .930 the last 4 playoff years and yet he's 39-36 in the playoffs over that span.  It just can't be on him.  The Rangers' defense just isn't where it needs to be to win unless Lundqvist plays amazing.

 

Fair enough

[devilsrule33]

Brodeur almost never entered a playoff series with an inferior team.  It just didn't happen.  And when it did happen, he got beat.  Brodeur was phenomenal in some playoff years, but he was seldom the difference between winning and losing a series.  He never had a run where he took a mediocre team deep because of his terrific goaltending.  95, perhaps this can be argued, but I don't really think so, and even so, that team lost 4 games that playoff year.  He's beaten several Hall of Fame goalies in playoff series, so that's not really an issue.  He beat Lundqvist in 2012 and certainly played at least equal to him - Lundqvist had a great Game 1 that year but he definitely faltered there, and Brodeur was quite good in that series aside from a few clunkers.

 

Last year was the one year where the Rangers surrounded Lundqvist with a team almost as good as one of those Devils teams and they went to the Finals.  This year was their best shot, and if they miss next year, they're going to have a hard time in the future.  But anyone who thinks that's because of Lundqvist and that he's not one of the all-time greats because of this is missing the bigger picture.  

 

To further this point, the Devils defense was just dominant in their 3 Cup wins.In 1995, this was Brodeur's save total in each game of the ECF and SCF: 20, 18, 22, 13, 16, 14, 16, 16, 22, 14. That's just masterful defense by the Devils. It didn't matter that Brodeur had a .891 save percentage in the last two rounds because he only had to make 19 saves a game. That's not going to happen for Lundqvist ever.

[roomtemp]

The Rags are like what the post lockout Devils were for a long time before it all collapsed on itself. Decent team that overachieves in the regular season due to goaltending, the fact teams might take a game off, coaches won't plan too much to stop one team in particular and the team playing most regular season games 100% effort. By the time the playoffs come your rarely out work your opponents into cheap wins and the other coaching staff can now plan against you exposing that you overachieved or at least closing the talent gap in certain areas. I think the Rangers have gotten a little bit luckier in terms of matchups, a weaker conference in the East and the just luck in the fact they win the close games because hockey is unfair in terms of luck sometimes but that's another rant.

[DJ Eco]

The Rags are like what the post lockout Devils were for a long time before it all collapsed on itself. Decent team that overachieves in the regular season due to goaltending, the fact teams might take a game off, coaches won't plan too much to stop one team in particular and the team playing most regular season games 100% effort. By the time the playoffs come your rarely out work your opponents into cheap wins and the other coaching staff can now plan against you exposing that you overachieved or at least closing the talent gap in certain areas. I think the Rangers have gotten a little bit luckier in terms of matchups, a weaker conference in the East and the just luck in the fact they win the close games because hockey is unfair in terms of luck sometimes but that's another rant.

 

I don't know, I'm not fully buying it. Mike Mottau, Anssi Salmela, Jay Leach, Vitaly Vishnevsky, a beat-up Colin White, Niclas Havelid, Henrik Tallinder, Mark Fraser, a younger Andy Greene and Mark Fayne who hadn't come into their own yet, etc... These were a bunch of our defenders during that time and these guys were getting big minutes. Granted, we made no Finals appearances, but somehow Brodeur was not only keeping them afloat but keeping them at the top of the division and conference.

 

Contrast with last year's and this year's Rangers teams, it doesn't even compare. McDonaugh, Girardi, Klein (since he came to NY), Yandle, Staal, Stralman (last year), Boyle, etc.: that's a Cup-winning defense. That's as balanced a defensive corps as you can put together. That defense can win a Cup, they were not overachieving the past few years. This was Finals (at the very least) or bust.

 

Granted, they played like dookie in Games 2 and 3, but c'mon, Henrik has to steal one of those games. Hank steals one of those games and the Rangers go on to win in 6.

Edited June 2, 2015 by DJ Eco

[Zubie#8]

IMO thats not a cup winning defense. Girardi and Staal are dumpster fires, McDonaugh lost a gear, Yandle and Boyle are soft in their own zone. Only looks good on paper.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Zubie#8

['7']

The game they'll be kicking themselves for is game 3. Henrik blew that one. They win that in OT, they're in the finals now and we're all knee deep in Rangerstown propaganda.

 

The Rangers have been knocking at the door since 2011-2012. They have 3 conference finals appearances and a Finals appearance to show for it. Not bad, but they never got the job done. I don't think we'll see them in a 4th conference final in 5 years next season. They had 4 years to get it done and they didn't get it done.

[Chuck the Duck]

The game they'll be kicking themselves for is game 3. Henrik blew that one. They win that in OT, they're in the finals now and we're all knee deep in Rangerstown propaganda.

 

The Rangers have been knocking at the door since 2011-2012. They have 3 conference finals appearances and a Finals appearance to show for it. Not bad, but they never got the job done. I don't think we'll see them in a 4th conference final in 5 years next season. They had 4 years to get it done and they didn't get it done.

 

I just don't see who is going to beat them in the divisional playoff next season.  The Pens are on the decline, the Isles are overrated and their goaltending sucks, the Devils, Flyers, and Canes aren't even legit playoff contenders, the BJ's have promise (but its nothing more than that at this point), and the Caps are a bunch of chokers that will never close out a big series when given the chance.

 

As long as this stupid playoff format remains the same, I can see the Rags making it to the ECF again next year.

[Triumph]

I just don't see who is going to beat them in the divisional playoff next season.  The Pens are on the decline, the Isles are overrated and their goaltending sucks, the Devils, Flyers, and Canes aren't even legit playoff contenders, the BJ's have promise (but its nothing more than that at this point), and the Caps are a bunch of chokers that will never close out a big series when given the chance.

 

As long as this stupid playoff format remains the same, I can see the Rags making it to the ECF again next year.

 

The Islanders are going to get better, and the Capitals are probably going to stay at least even.  The Penguins may be on the decline but I think they will be better next year than they were this year.  And of course you're making pronouncements about a team that 'couldn't get the job done' when they got to a Game 7 OT, which is as close as you can come to winning.

[Daniel]

I'm not saying Lundqvist played amazing in this series but he played well enough for the Rangers to win.  The Rangers defense was atrocious - part of that is no doubt because Girardi and McDonagh were hurt, but the other part is that the Rangers' defense just isn't that good.  They're expensive, yes - McDonagh's a legit 1st pairing guy, but Girardi isn't despite being paid like one and played like one - he's more like Lyle Odelein.  Staal's okay.  Boyle's been pretty good.  Yandle never acclimated to his new team - not surprising - and Klein is still Klein.  They made a huge mistake not recognizing the value of Anton Stralman.

 

Lundqvist has a save percentage of around .930 the last 4 playoff years and yet he's 39-36 in the playoffs over that span.  It just can't be on him.  The Rangers' defense just isn't where it needs to be to win unless Lundqvist plays amazing.

 

From the standpoint of those of us who hate the Rangers, let's hope their management feels the defense needs to get tougher and forces McIlrath on Vigneault, who apparently can see McIlrath for what he is and doesn't like it.   

[Derlique]

Don't forget Boston either. Chara was dealing with injuries all year and didnt look himself. Not that he'll return to 2011 form, but he should be better. Hamilton was very good last year and they'll have Pastrnak and Krejci for the whole year. If they can get value for Lucic they'll be players next year

[DJ Eco]

I just don't see who is going to beat them in the divisional playoff next season.  The Pens are on the decline, the Isles are overrated and their goaltending sucks, the Devils, Flyers, and Canes aren't even legit playoff contenders, the BJ's have promise (but its nothing more than that at this point), and the Caps are a bunch of chokers that will never close out a big series when given the chance.

 

As long as this stupid playoff format remains the same, I can see the Rags making it to the ECF again next year.

 

I think Tampa Bay, Washington, Columbus, and New York Islanders all get considerably better next season.

 

I think Montreal stays at about the same level but maybe has a better playoffs. Florida stays the same, maybe sneaks into the playoffs.

 

I think Pittsburgh, Philly and Boston continue to get worse.

 

Devils, Carolina, Buffalo, and Toronto little change.

 

 

Either way, I don't think the Rangers will have as easy of an Eastern Conference to deal with as they've had this year, and ESPECIALLY last year.

[Chuck the Duck]

The Islanders are going to get better, and the Capitals are probably going to stay at least even.  The Penguins may be on the decline but I think they will be better next year than they were this year.  And of course you're making pronouncements about a team that 'couldn't get the job done' when they got to a Game 7 OT, which is as close as you can come to winning.

 

It's difficult to say what teams will be like next year until the draft and FA shakes out.  A lot can change with roster makeup between now and October.  However, when has Washington ever gotten the job done?  The franchise finds different ways to choke the season away every year.  And, it's funny you mention them getting to OT of Game 7 since they had a 3-1 series lead and couldn't win 1 of the last 3 games even with their goaltender playing better than or as well as the Queen.  Them getting to 7 is not an accomplishment as they should have won the series in 6.  But  that's nothing new to them, as they always get close to winning, but never do.  Like the Blues, no matter how talented they are, I will never trust them to win a big series until they prove me wrong.

 

As far as the Isles are concerned, they have the F talent, and their D is above-average, but Halak is a mirage.  He looks good in the regular season, but I have no confidence in that team beating the Rags in a 7 game series with him between the pipes.

I think Tampa Bay, Washington, Columbus, and New York Islanders all get considerably better next season.

 

I think Montreal stays at about the same level but maybe has a better playoffs. Florida stays the same, maybe sneaks into the playoffs.

 

I think Pittsburgh, Philly and Boston continue to get worse.

 

Devils, Carolina, Buffalo, and Toronto little change.

 

 

Either way, I don't think the Rangers will have as easy of an Eastern Conference to deal with as they've had this year, and ESPECIALLY last year.

 

 

I was only talking about teams in the Metro Division.  I just don't see Washington or the Isles getting "considerably" better, although Columbus is a wildcard that has that possibility.  I think Philly and Boston stay the same, but agree with the rest of your assessment.

[roomtemp]

As far as the Isles are concerned, they have the F talent, and their D is above-average, but Halak is a mirage.  He looks good in the regular season, but I have no confidence in that team beating the Rags in a 7 game series with him between the pipes.

 

 

I was only talking about teams in the Metro Division.  I just don't see Washington or the Isles getting "considerably" better, although Columbus is a wildcard that has that possibility.  I think Philly and Boston stay the same, but agree with the rest of your assessment.

 

I can see the Islanders getting better in that they'll have that experience factor where they might not fade as badly as they did towards the end of the season. But I don't see them making a large jump into overnight contender

[Daniel]

I can see the Islanders getting better in that they'll have that experience factor where they might not fade as badly as they did towards the end of the season. But I don't see them making a large jump into overnight contender

Strome should only get better, perhaps a lot better. They also have Dal Colle, a top five pick that one would expect to be at least a good second line forward. Ho Sang could also turn into a very good player, based on reputation anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Devils Pride 26]

The good news about the Rangers coming close to winning it the last couple years is the added miles on most of their guys. The wear and tear is going to hit McDonaugh hard soon, and has already been killing Girardi and Staal. Hank's knees are going to start to give. I don't think they'll ever sell him off either. I'd at least explore it. No first rounders in the last three drafts. Going to catch up to them.

[thecoffeecake]

The Islanders are going to get better, and the Capitals are probably going to stay at least even. The Penguins may be on the decline but I think they will be better next year than they were this year. And of course you're making pronouncements about a team that 'couldn't get the job done' when they got to a Game 7 OT, which is as close as you can come to winning.

I think saying the penguins are on the decline is a bit of an over exaggeration. I think we forget because we've been watching Crosby Malkin and maf in the playoffs every year for a decade, we forget how young they still are. The term "retool" was created for a team like the penguins. The bruins are on the decline, the penguins have just cycled role players. One great off season and they're back in the conversation with the best in the east. Either way, is a healthy penguins team that far out as it is? I don't think so.

[DJ Eco]

Hank's knees are going to start to give. I don't think they'll ever sell him off either. I'd at least explore it. No first rounders in the last three drafts. Going to catch up to them.

 

I think, unless they win the Cup next season, it's inevitable. It could be as soon as next June where he demands a trade and/or Sather looks for a trade to get some return on what's a soon declining asset. His salary will affect the quality of the return that the Rangers will get though, considerably.

Edited June 3, 2015 by DJ Eco