roomtemp Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I'll always defend the Coyotes because f***ing Canadians hockey elitist and the hockey media at large always pick on them. They aren't very good and everyone complains they aren't drawing well... LIKE EVERY OTHER f***ING TEAM IN EXISTENCE. The Bruins didn't sell out playoff games, the Dead Wins era and the Dollar Bill Wirtz Hawks weren't drawing anything either so let's move them all. Then the few seasons they have a really good team they have this threat of moving overnight like the Colts did to Baltimore every off season. How they hell is a team supposed to build up a season ticket base or fan excitement if no one knows if they'll be a season?Now was it always going to fail? Who the hell knows but it never got a fair shake and now this while the jackasses will exclaim their elitism and how hockey in places that can't make ice naturally is somehow an abomination to the unseen hand. its probably dead now but it was never given a fair chance and under those circumstances most markets would have failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDew Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Glendale was losing millions a year in the arena deal with the Coyotes. They decided to cancel the contract. This financial situation isn't something that just popped up overnight. If teams cannot develop a base and decides to move that is their prerogative. I don't see the organization never having the chance to succeed. Moving to Seattle and this current arena situation are quite different imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) The Coyotes have been unnecessarily kept on life support since 2009, the fans have never responded, they've never showed they cared much. Despite Bettman moving heaven and earth to keep them there (probably has to do with the large TV market, despite the fact that nobody there watches hockey on TV) there is general apathy about the club and there will be apathy about them leaving. Winnipeg and QC deserved this kind of balls to the wall effort to keep them alive. So did Minnesota. Phoenix deserves nothing, you have two other markets salivating for hockey who will be money making home runs for the league (Seattle and Quebec) and Hamilton as well but it seems like that dream will never happen. Time to give up the ghost in Arizona and move on to greener pastures. I suspect a lot of this has to do with Bettmans own ego. A domino already fell in Atlanta (awful idea from the get-go) and now the second one has finally fallen in Arizona. Next up will be Carolina. You watch. These Canadian hockey elitists are the lifeblood of the sport, and you can imagine how they feel after watching Arizona after what they went through with Winnipeg and QC. They've been in Arizona since 1996. That's a fair shake. It was a novelty, it wore off. Edited June 11, 2015 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 http://deadspin.com/fan-wants-to-spend-other-peoples-money-on-her-dumb-hock-1710658161?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow This nails it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 that sucks, i feel for their fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I thought things were pretty tough in 2013 with all the bad press and talk about Vanderbeek's financial woes, but I can't imagine being a diehard Coyotes fan, essentially being the joke (or worse, the pity) of the entire league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Here fvcking here!...and we saw the same Canadian elitism with the Thrashers, and see it still with Florida. Forget that every other southern franchise has thrived at one point... And of course there's apathy in Phoenix...how can you get attached to a new sport when your club is always in threat to leave? We saw this with the Expos, yet baseball has proven it can flourish there. Edited June 12, 2015 by devlman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Next up will be Carolina. You watch. . I agree with everything you said and the TV viewing stats will likely back you up, but unlike Phoenix and Atlanta. Carolina has put winning teams on the ice and have won the cup in somewhat recent memory. I think you underestimate the fan base. Phoenix couldn't even get people to show up for the playoff games. I remember the '09 playoffs and the Canes building was loud and the fans were pumped. They don't draft terribly poorly and they do have a small core to build around unlike Phoenix. Would the Jets be a playoff team now if they stayed in Atlanta? I would argue yes. Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk Edited June 11, 2015 by RizzMB30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I agree with everything you said and the TV viewing stats will likely back you up, but unlike Phoenix and Atlanta. Carolina has put winning teams on the ice and have won the cup in somewhat recent memory. I think you underestimate the fan base. Phoenix couldn't even get people to show up for the playoff games. I remember the '09 playoffs and the Canes building was loud and the fans were pumped. They don't draft terribly poorly and they do have a small core to build around unlike Phoenix. Would the Jets be a playoff team now if they stayed in Atlanta? I would argue yes. Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk I can't see Carolina going anywhere. I fvcking hate that franchise, but the fans have turned out when they were a playoff team- plus, as you said, they won a Cup somewhat recently. And their building isn't even that old. When did it open, 2001? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ya I don't see Carolina leaving either. Florida would leave before them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I can't see Carolina going anywhere. I fvcking hate that franchise, but the fans have turned out when they were a playoff team- plus, as you said, they won a Cup somewhat recently. And their building isn't even that old. When did it open, 2001?The article you posted is very true. The majority of the people in Glendale don't want to be paying for a stadium they don't want or use regularly. It's not the fans job to promote the team, but if it's struggling financially and you don't want it to go away, you need to try and promote it yourself. Cities themselves should not own teams or arenas. Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk Edited June 12, 2015 by RizzMB30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The Coyotes may not have a large fanbase but they have some really dedicated die-hards. I feel for those people. With that said, this whole mess should've been over long ago. They are really fortunate that Bettman has bent over backwards year after year to keep this franchise in Arizona. As '7' alluded to, it's a shame that the people in Winnipeg and Quebec weren't given this effort to save their teams - they also deserved it.This whole thing is really crazy. Bad owners through the years, the NHL essentially gifting the team to these new owners, the insane CoG politicians that gave the team this sweetheart arena deal, and now a slightly newer CoG council that is trying to get out of that horrendous deal. At some point, Bettman needs to say "enough is enough, move the team."My speculation: The team wins the legal battle against the CoG but uses that 5 yr/$50M trigger to relocate the team in a few years. I imagine that the NHL wants expansion for Quebec for $ reasons so I guess that leaves Las Vegas (not a far relocation, could make a lot of sense) and possibly Seattle (if they ever break ground on their SoDo arena). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Edit: wrong thread Edited June 12, 2015 by Zubie#8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adavid Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Lots of Canes fans. They aren't going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roomtemp Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 They've been in Arizona since 1996. That's a fair shake. It was a novelty, it wore off. fvck off it has not been a fair shot. They drew fine in Phoenix proper but when they moved to Glendale the team was either awful or under the threat of moving overnight during the summer. How the hell do you expect to maintain a fanbase if they might move every year even the good seasons? Now was it always going to fail especially with the move to Glendale? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. But it was never a fair effort to build the sport with terrible teams and the will they won't they move sagas that took over the good years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Hockey Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) fvck off it has not been a fair shot. They drew fine in Phoenix proper but when they moved to Glendale the team was either awful or under the threat of moving overnight during the summer. How the hell do you expect to maintain a fanbase if they might move every year even the good seasons? Now was it always going to fail especially with the move to Glendale? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. But it was never a fair effort to build the sport with terrible teams and the will they won't they move sagas that took over the good years. Glendale is like 10 miles or so outside of Phoenix, that's not a good excuse as to why people aren't going. I'm curious to see what happens with this situation but I don't care if they stay in Arizona or not. Edited June 12, 2015 by Satans Hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Glendale is like 10 miles or so outside of Phoenix, that's not a good excuse as to why people aren't going. I'm curious to see what happens with this situation but I don't care if they stay in Arizona or not. But the traffic braaah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 fvck off it has not been a fair shot. They drew fine in Phoenix proper but when they moved to Glendale the team was either awful or under the threat of moving overnight during the summer. How the hell do you expect to maintain a fanbase if they might move every year even the good seasons? Now was it always going to fail especially with the move to Glendale? Maybe. Probably. Maybe. But it was never a fair effort to build the sport with terrible teams and the will they won't they move sagas that took over the good years. It was a fair shot. Early on it was a novelty, they had good teams with star players (Tkachuk, Roenick) and then it wore off. Arizona has a lot of retirees with other allegiances, so even to this day, even their small crowds are littered with out of town fans. Glendale is so close to Phoenix that there is no excuse. Hockey is not woven into the fabric or the culture there, most of what exists there is a product of people that are not even Coyotes fans. To have such a thimble sized fan base after 20 years playing in the same area is pathetic. Even the Devils in the very early 90's had much more support than the Coyotes have now, and that was in the pre social media world where it was much harder to get the word out about a team. Even the NHL's stubborn, boneheaded insistence on moving heaven and earth to keep the team was greeted with a yawn. Every summer the NHL said "YES! We made it work, you're staying" and the fans kept getting reassurances from the league. The fan base responded with a yawn. Time has run out. It's a sh!tty market with a sh!tty fan support. Out the door they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It was a fair shot. Early on it was a novelty, they had good teams with star players (Tkachuk, Roenick) and then it wore off. Arizona has a lot of retirees with other allegiances, so even to this day, even their small crowds are littered with out of town fans. Glendale is so close to Phoenix that there is no excuse. Hockey is not woven into the fabric or the culture there, most of what exists there is a product of people that are not even Coyotes fans. To have such a thimble sized fan base after 20 years playing in the same area is pathetic. Even the Devils in the very early 90's had much more support than the Coyotes have now, and that was in the pre social media world where it was much harder to get the word out about a team. Even the NHL's stubborn, boneheaded insistence on moving heaven and earth to keep the team was greeted with a yawn. Every summer the NHL said "YES! We made it work, you're staying" and the fans kept getting reassurances from the league. The fan base responded with a yawn. Time has run out. It's a sh!tty market with a sh!tty fan support. Out the door they go. I think the league is looking at a lame duck season there next year. I don't see how they'd be able to relocate in time for next season- unless it's to Quebec, because they have an arena and an infrastructure ready to go. But I don't think Bettman wants to unbalance the conferences even more, and having a Quebec team play in the west would be an even bigger logistical nightmare than having Winnipeg play in the east was. Plus there's the matter of the rumored $500 million expansion fee the owners want to collect from Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think the league is looking at a lame duck season there next year. I don't see how they'd be able to relocate in time for next season- unless it's to Quebec, because they have an arena and an infrastructure ready to go. But I don't think Bettman wants to unbalance the conferences even more, and having a Quebec team play in the west would be an even bigger logistical nightmare than having Winnipeg play in the east was. Plus there's the matter of the rumored $500 million expansion fee the owners want to collect from Quebec. If you want a real conspiracy theory, the idea might be to try and save the NHL in Arizona by ensuring that the Coyotes get the first pick next year and draft Auston Mathews who grew up in Scotsdale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If you want a real conspiracy theory, the idea might be to try and save the NHL in Arizona by ensuring that the Coyotes get the first pick next year and draft Auston Mathews who grew up in Scotsdale.That's quite a theory lol... It's crazy. Without the Coyotes, there may never have been an Auston Matthews, as he was born right when the team moved to Phoenix, and he grew up going to games there, getting him into hockey. If the NHL never goes to Phoenix, maybe Auston Matthews never laces up skates and instead decides to play basketball or baseball or something. Food for thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If you want a real conspiracy theory, the idea might be to try and save the NHL in Arizona by ensuring that the Coyotes get the first pick next year and draft Auston Mathews who grew up in Scotsdale. They could've done that by giving them McDavid or Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 They could've done that by giving them McDavid or Eichel. Nah, mine's better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) They could've done that by giving them McDavid or Eichel.Yes, but McDavid and Eichel aren't from Arizona. [emoji14] Edited June 12, 2015 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 So as of right now, the Coyotes are homeless, correct? The lease in Glendale was terminated, and if the courts side with the city, they're either renegotiating a new lease, which won't happen, or they play elsewhere? According to a couple of news reports out of Arizona, the law is on the coyotes side, so they'll likely end up in Glendale next year anyway. But I think long term they're going to end up back in phoenix. The suns are looking to build a new facility, and apparently there has already been talk about the Coyotes using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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