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NHL Board Authorizes Formal Expansion Process


thecoffeecake
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Similar to Florida teams is my exact concern. Outside the Dolphins and now the Lightning, at least for the time being, no one cares about Florida sports. The Rays are perennial contenders, and it's usually not even close attendance wise between Tampa and whoever comes in at 29th. And it's probable that Miami is in that 29th conversation yearly. The Panthers might as well not exist.

 

Florida is not like anyplace in this country when it concerns professional sports. I lived there for my junior high through two college years. Its very weird that Florida sports teams besides the Dolphins (and the Heat when they're good) don't get any sort of meaningful attendance, espc considering its so football crazed, although the Bucs aren't devoid of a fan base. Jacksonville is not a tourist destination at all. The Panthers get attendance when they're good and they're going to be good again soon.

 

I don't think the comparison to Vegas is apt. People go to Florida to hit the beach and places like Disney (there's a reason there's only an NBA team and an MLS team are in Orlando). People go to Vegas to have a good time and that doesn't always revolve around gambling. They want to do things in the evening, go to shows etc. NHL hockey is exactly the type of regular event that a place like Vegas could use as its not Celine Dion or Britney Spears concerts lol. Basically something that will lure more guys into. Things like UNLV sports do great gates in Vegas and they havent been relevant in most sports for more than 20 years now. Vegas' demographics also trend a lot younger.

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Similar to Florida teams is my exact concern. Outside the Dolphins and now the Lightning, at least for the time being, no one cares about Florida sports. The Rays are perennial contenders, and it's usually not even close attendance wise between Tampa and whoever comes in at 29th. And it's probable that Miami is in that 29th conversation yearly. The Panthers might as well not exist.

 

I misunderstood this post and thought you were saying that the Lightning couldn't draw for crap, and I was about to come back with this well-researched rebuttal about how Tampa actually tends to draw rather well, and then I reread it and realized you were talking about baseball instead.   :lol:

 

But yeah, the Rays are just pitiful when it comes to attendance.  Lately Cleveland has been right down there with them, and the Marlins usually aren't too far off.

 

I'd be careful about dissing the Panthers, though.  Granted, they only drew a little over 11k this past season and a little over 14k the year before that, but typically they're in the same general neighborhood as the Devils; sometimes their attendance is better, sometimes ours is.  Here's the last 10 seasons of attendance data (hopefully the formatting comes out right):

 

             Florida          New Jersey     difference
2014-15    11,265  30th      15,189  26th       3924
2013-14    14,177  29th      15,257  24th       1080
2012-13    16,991  22nd      17,114  20th        123
2011-12    16,628  21st      15,396  24th      -1232
2010-11    15,685  22nd      14,775  25th      - 910
2009-10    15,146  25th      15,535  20th        389
2008-09    15,621  24th      15,790  23rd        169
2007-08    15,436  25th      15,564  23rd        128
2006-07    15,370  22nd      14,176  26th      -1194
2005-06    16,014  19th      14,230  26th      -1784

 

Edited by RowdyFan42
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I misunderstood this post and thought you were saying that the Lightning couldn't draw for crap, and I was about to come back with this well-researched rebuttal about how Tampa actually tends to draw rather well, and then I reread it and realized you were talking about baseball instead.   :lol:

 

But yeah, the Rays are just pitiful when it comes to attendance.  Lately Cleveland has been right down there with them, and the Marlins usually aren't too far off.

 

I'd be careful about dissing the Panthers, though.  Granted, they only drew a little over 11k this past season and a little over 14k the year before that, but typically they're in the same general neighborhood as the Devils; sometimes their attendance is better, sometimes ours is.  Here's the last 10 seasons of attendance data (hopefully the formatting comes out right):

 

             Florida          New Jersey     difference
2014-15    11,265  30th      15,189  26th       3924
2013-14    14,177  29th      15,257  24th       1080
2012-13    16,991  22nd      17,114  20th        123
2011-12    16,628  21st      15,396  24th      -1232
2010-11    15,685  22nd      14,775  25th      - 910
2009-10    15,146  25th      15,535  20th        389
2008-09    15,621  24th      15,790  23rd        169
2007-08    15,436  25th      15,564  23rd        128
2006-07    15,370  22nd      14,176  26th      -1194
2005-06    16,014  19th      14,230  26th      -1784

 

This is very misleading. The Devils charge way more per ticket

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how do we think expansion will work in terms of the expansion draft? will it be something to the effect of, every team can protect all but 2 or 3 players?  i wonder how the expansion draft will impact team management of contracts, ie, might some teams see the expansion draft as a get out of jail free card from their bad contracts, and might teams be more willing to take multi-year risks starting now with the knowledge that they might be able to jettison those guys later at the  draft? just food for thought.  hopefully the devils don't start signing any truly bad contracts in the shero era, but i wonder if a guy like zajac gets left unprotected at that time.

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If an expansion team is brought in for the 2016-17 season, it has the potential to effect where the Devils draft in next season's entry draft.  From what I can remember, the expansion franchise will likely get the #3 pick, pushing everyone outside of picks 1 and 2 down a slot. 

 

Our luck is we will bad enough to get the third pick, then get bumped to 4th due to the expansion team. 

 

As for the expansion draft, I can't see the Devils leaving Zajac unprotected.  He is overpaid, but he's still a good 2 way center that has the potential to put up descent numbers when he is surrounded by goods wingers.  Usually it is a collection of 4th liners and way past their prime players that the expansion franchise has to choose from. 

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i won't debate zajac's comparative real to contract value here (since it's polarizing and already beaten to death), but i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that nj sees a chance to do something better with his money and leaves him unprotected.  the last expansion draft wasn't a cap era draft.  i think there may be some more interesting complications this time around. 4th line scrubs may have little real value (and have been left open last time), but this time around, you might only do that if you happen to have a 4th liner signed to a really bad deal.  otherwise, there's more value in contract purging than there is in low level talent purging. my 2 cents.

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that being said tho, they'll probably throw some rules in place that combined value of unprotected players can't exceed x amount (since the new expansion team will have to be cap compliant as well).  can't have every team just leaving 6 million dollar contracts exposed.

 

I think that is an idea and one that a lot of teams would be thinking about (Columbus with Clarkson, Philly with Vinny).  I wouldn't think that they would restrict anyone more than just that they can protect the players they want and the expansion team can pick the players left over.

 

I think that it'd have to get much worse with Zajac to get him to that point though.  Just think of the ramifications when he finds out that he wasn't protected.  Then worse yet, if he wasn't selected by the expansion team and had to come back to the Devils.  That would create a huge situation.  Better to trade him for a 7th rounder because then you at least know he'd be off the team.

 

I wouldn't even know who else would be on the team to protect for the expansion.  The only people I think signed beyond this year are Zajac, Henrique, Cam, Greene, Moore and Schneider (obviously the RFAs too).

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If an expansion team is brought in for the 2016-17 season, it has the potential to effect where the Devils draft in next season's entry draft.  From what I can remember, the expansion franchise will likely get the #3 pick, pushing everyone outside of picks 1 and 2 down a slot. 

 

Our luck is we will bad enough to get the third pick, then get bumped to 4th due to the expansion team. 

 

As for the expansion draft, I can't see the Devils leaving Zajac unprotected.  He is overpaid, but he's still a good 2 way center that has the potential to put up descent numbers when he is surrounded by goods wingers.  Usually it is a collection of 4th liners and way past their prime players that the expansion franchise has to choose from. 

While that's mostly true, there's definitely some notable exceptions - in 1998 the Predators got an up and coming 25 year old Andrew Brunette and a 22 year old Tomas Vokoun.  In '00 the Wild got a 24yr old Filip Kuba, and the Blue Jackets got a 28yr old Geoff Sanderson.

 

Sarasota is on that list... lol.  I laugh because I live there, and, well, if anyone else did, you'd know an NHL team coming here isn't an option, so I am not sure why it was even considered and wasted time computing the economic possibility.

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I think that is an idea and one that a lot of teams would be thinking about (Columbus with Clarkson, Philly with Vinny).  I wouldn't think that they would restrict anyone more than just that they can protect the players they want and the expansion team can pick the players left over.

 

I think that it'd have to get much worse with Zajac to get him to that point though.  Just think of the ramifications when he finds out that he wasn't protected.  Then worse yet, if he wasn't selected by the expansion team and had to come back to the Devils.  That would create a huge situation.  Better to trade him for a 7th rounder because then you at least know he'd be off the team.

 

I wouldn't even know who else would be on the team to protect for the expansion.  The only people I think signed beyond this year are Zajac, Henrique, Cam, Greene, Moore and Schneider (obviously the RFAs too).

that's a valid point... but also at the end of the day, hockey players are professionals being paid mega sums of money.  i think it's more pragmatic nowadays.  players with large contracts know they are at risk of being bought out if they are not performing to some expectation.  it shouldn't be a shock to player x that he signed a nice deal and didn't put up #s, and then his team left him open.  it'd be more shocking to me if they protected him just to maintain face and have a good relationship.  i mean, it's about winning.  chicago makes no bones about it and makes hard decisions seemingly yearly.  but yeah, we shall see.  i'm not predicting this as a lock by any means.  i dunno what the cap will look like in 2 yrs and what zajac's contract against it will look like, or what he'll do in this upcoming season to stake his value on the re-building devils.  but if zajac has another stinker season (he aint 24 anymore), i'd say he'd be a candidate to be left unprotected if there are no nhl rules about max value on unprotected players.  if no one were to take him in expansion... that'd be surprising.  but if that happened, he comes back to earning millions of dollars a year.  i think he'd be okay.

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And contrary to popular belief, there ARE people who live in the Vegas area who are from there and didn't move from somewhere else- don't discount the civic pride aspect of those people to support the first and only major pro sports team in Vegas history.

 

Yeah but how many of them have a 9-5 job that's conducive to a post-work/7PM game?

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that's a valid point... but also at the end of the day, hockey players are professionals being paid mega sums of money.  i think it's more pragmatic nowadays.  players with large contracts know they are at risk of being bought out if they are not performing to some expectation.  it shouldn't be a shock to player x that he signed a nice deal and didn't put up #s, and then his team left him open.  it'd be more shocking to me if they protected him just to maintain face and have a good relationship.  i mean, it's about winning.  chicago makes no bones about it and makes hard decisions seemingly yearly.  but yeah, we shall see.  i'm not predicting this as a lock by any means.  i dunno what the cap will look like in 2 yrs and what zajac's contract against it will look like, or what he'll do in this upcoming season to stake his value on the re-building devils.  but if zajac has another stinker season (he aint 24 anymore), i'd say he'd be a candidate to be left unprotected if there are no nhl rules about max value on unprotected players.  if no one were to take him in expansion... that'd be surprising.  but if that happened, he comes back to earning millions of dollars a year.  i think he'd be okay.

 

This might be an interesting exercise with everything so quiet.  Who would we protect?  Here were the rules for the 2000 expansion from Wikipedia:

 

- One goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards or two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards.

- For teams protecting only one goaltender, there was no experience requirement for those left unprotected. For teams protecting two goaltenders, each goaltender left unprotected must have appeared in either 10 NHL games in the 1999–2000 season or 25 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. A goaltender had to be in net for at least 31 minutes in each game for the game to be counted against these totals.

- At least one defenceman left unprotected by each team had to have appeared in at least 40 games in the 1999–2000 season or 70 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. At least two forwards left unprotected by each team had to have met the same requirements.

 

Schneider

Merrill

Gelinas

Greene

Larsson

Severson

Cam

Henrique

Zajac

Palmieri

Boucher

Matteau

Josefson

2 scrubs

 

I'm realizing now that it's probably hard without a full team yet.  But with the team we have now, that's what I'd do.

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re: zajac (and others), nobody is mentioning NMC and NTC which would require being protected.

 

so players that have to be protected:

zajac

elias

clowe

cammalleri

rutuu(!)

zubrus(!!)

greene

schneider

 

that's 6 f, 1 d and 1g

so protect 3 more f and 4 more d

henrique

palmieri

josefson

larsson

merrill

severson

gelinas

 

John Moore would be the guy that would fill in the GP requirement for defensemen left unprotected.

As for forwards, Boucher and Matteau would have to be exposed.

And Kinkaid would be exposed.

 

Assuming 2 teams come in at the same time to keep it balanced, and to make it fair to all teams, there would likely be 60 players selected (2 per existing team). But you can only have a 23 man active roster so I'm not sure what would happen with the other 7 players selected.

 

i doubt any teams are currently even thinking about it, but it's probably not a bad idea to keep this in mind for contracts that will be in place in 2 years.

Edited by sundstrom
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re: zajac (and others), nobody is mentioning NMC and NTC which would require being protected.

so players that have to be protected:

zajac

elias

clowe

cammalleri

rutuu(!)

zubrus(!!)

greene

schneider

that's 6 f, 1 d and 1g

so protect 3 more f and 4 more d

henrique

palmieri

josefson

larsson

merrill

severson

gelinas

John Moore would be the guy that would fill in the GP requirement for defensemen left unprotected.

As for forwards, Boucher and Matteau would have to be exposed.

And Kinkaid would be exposed.

Assuming 2 teams come in at the same time to keep it balanced, and to make it fair to all teams, there would likely be 60 players selected (2 per existing team). But you can only have a 23 man active roster so I'm not sure what would happen with the other 7 players selected.

i doubt any teams are currently even thinking about it, but it's probably not a bad idea to keep this in mind for contracts that will be in place in 2 years.

Do NMC's actually require being protected from expansion drafts?

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Do NMC's actually require being protected from expansion drafts?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

it doesn't say from 2000 expansion draft but I don't recall if it was actually something that was even out there to begin with. i actually looked at the latest expansion drafts in all 4 leagues and there wasn't a requirement to protect no trade/no move players.

 

but i'd bet that it would be something that would have to be considered.

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it doesn't say from 2000 expansion draft but I don't recall if it was actually something that was even out there to begin with. i actually looked at the latest expansion drafts in all 4 leagues and there wasn't a requirement to protect no trade/no move players.

 

but i'd bet that it would be something that would have to be considered.

 

I was confused too.  It seemed like it didn't have anything protected about prospects either.  So say a person like Zacha who would have his ELC most likely sliding; would they have had to protect him previously?  Would we have to protect him too?  Obviously it's still speculation now because it's for the future expansion but how did teams fill their prospect rosters (the 50 man roster) before?

 

Edit:  It almost seemed like in the previous system, it would be good to do 2 goaltenders since we could protect Kinky and Schneider, then automatically protect someone like Blackwood if we had to worry about prospects since he won't play 10 games.  That's only if prospects were a worry, obviously.

Edited by themightyall
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