SterioDesign Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 The problem with this logic (especially re: 3rd-liners) is that they're important too, and can help your team win. If you are able to find a potentially terrific 3rd-liner-type in the first round (say more towards the middle-end of that round) who has a good chance to have a long and successful career doing the less glamorous work that doesn't show up in the pretty-numbers categories (but the guy's usefulness is undisputed), is taking a guy like that automatically a poor decision by default? In fairness to SD, who does sound simplistic sometimes, that's not what he really said...he didn't say anything about drafting 1st-liners only in his post. I'm guessing he meant draft higher-upside types (like offensive D-men, first/second line-types, potential franchise goalie). Fair enough, but if those guys aren't there, or the ones who fit the "glamour" roles are iffy, and there's a player available who looks like he can help and has specific skill sets...I don't have a problem taking that guy in the first round. Yes. i guess i should have been more specific but yeah higher upsides types. Not that i'd take that approach 100% of the time in general either but NJ has a particular weird structure right now and had it for quite a few years and they really need to buff up some area. So you kind of have to take a different approach. Point is guys who can score and play in all situations (lets call them top 6 guys for this) are way harder to find, expensive and rare. While bottom 6 guys are pretty cheap and easy to get every summer, of course they are important but way way wayyyy easier to get. so by that logic you really want most of your top 6 guys to be homegrown as much as possible as you got to develop them, you're really their team and you can have them cheaper for a few years. And you have a clear advantage on re-signing them too. So sure you need to draft all positions and all but we've been lacking skills up front for quite awhile and we really but really need to put chances on our side to get on that. We're FAR from even being average in term of offensive skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'll always be resentful about Matteau because there was no reason for us to keep the pick that year. Who would we have drafted last year had we not lost the pick? Nylander? Ehlers? I've seen Ehlers play a lot live and he's fvcking amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) SD...unfortunately as we've sometimes seen, the 3rd-line guys and lower pairing D are ripe to be overpaid too. Especially the ones that heralded for what they do. As far as drafting goes for the Devils, they have so many holes up front that I think they almost have to go Best Player Available more often than not (at least for the next couple of drafts). They need guys everywhere. Sure, anytime you can snag a guy who looks like he's going to be a good scorer, nab him...but like I said in my previous post, if there's a guy who looks like he can be a terrific 3rd-liner for 8-10 years and has other needed skillsets, and there's no one else around who seems as likely to make your team better...sometimes that's a better way to go. Edited July 20, 2015 by Colorado Rockies 1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'll always be resentful about Matteau because there was no reason for us to keep the pick that year. Who would we have drafted last year had we not lost the pick? Nylander? Ehlers? Nylander is a risky pick, he has a much higher chance of busting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecake Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Nylander is a risky pick, he has a much higher chance of busting.Does that change the fact that drafting top ten is better than drafting 30th? Edited July 20, 2015 by thecoffeecake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 As I said in another thread Matteau and Severson will be the two best players selected after the 27th pick. tanner Pearson? Matteau may be a decent or even good nhler but you have no idea how he will pan out compared to other players drafted in 2012. I know as fans we want to think our prospects are the tits but the hyperbole of you're statement speaks to your bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 SD...unfortunately as we've sometimes seen, the 3rd-line guys and lower pairing D are ripe to be overpaid too. Especially the ones that heralded for what they do. As far as drafting goes for the Devils, they have so many holes up front that I think they almost have to go Best Player Available more often than not (at least for the next couple of drafts). They need guys everywhere. Sure, anytime you can snag a guy who looks like he's going to be a good scorer, nab him...but like I said in my previous post, if there's a guy who looks like he can be a terrific 3rd-liner for 8-10 years and has other needed skillsets, and there's no one else around who seems as likely to make your team better...sometimes that's a better way to go. The idea of picking a 'sure thing' just isn't borne out by previous drafts. The most likely NHLers are the ones that score more. Way too often teams have taken 'safe' picks and they have ended up not very safe. There's not much to suggest Matteau will be anything much better than he is right now which is a 3rd liner/4th liner/borderline NHL player. That said, the 2012 draft is pretty awful and I feel pretty confident that Matteau is totally defensible as BPA. For as mediocre as Stef has been, there's not a ton of forwards who have outperformed him. Nylander is a risky pick, he has a much higher chance of busting. Not even remotely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The idea of picking a 'sure thing' just isn't borne out by previous drafts. The most likely NHLers are the ones that score more. Way too often teams have taken 'safe' picks and they have ended up not very safe. There's not much to suggest Matteau will be anything much better than he is right now which is a 3rd liner/4th liner/borderline NHL player. That said, the 2012 draft is pretty awful and I feel pretty confident that Matteau is totally defensible as BPA. For as mediocre as Stef has been, there's not a ton of forwards who have outperformed him. Not even remotely true. The only sure thing in these drafts is that there aren't many sure things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 The idea of picking a 'sure thing' just isn't borne out by previous drafts. The most likely NHLers are the ones that score more. Way too often teams have taken 'safe' picks and they have ended up not very safe. There's not much to suggest Matteau will be anything much better than he is right now which is a 3rd liner/4th liner/borderline NHL player. That said, the 2012 draft is pretty awful and I feel pretty confident that Matteau is totally defensible as BPA. For as mediocre as Stef has been, there's not a ton of forwards who have outperformed him. Well thats the thing i watched Matteau played in his draft year and he was playing 3rd line sometimes 2nd line in junior... how often did a 3rd line guy from juniors made the NHL and had an impact? Not saying it never happened but you know lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William D'Aquila Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The idea of picking a 'sure thing' just isn't borne out by previous drafts. The most likely NHLers are the ones that score more. Way too often teams have taken 'safe' picks and they have ended up not very safe. There's not much to suggest Matteau will be anything much better than he is right now which is a 3rd liner/4th liner/borderline NHL player. That said, the 2012 draft is pretty awful and I feel pretty confident that Matteau is totally defensible as BPA. For as mediocre as Stef has been, there's not a ton of forwards who have outperformed him. Not even remotely true. Do you think he has the size to play center in the NHL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Do you think he has the size to play center in the NHL? I don't know, and I don't really care. If he doesn't work out at center he'll probably be a terrific winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Well thats the thing i watched Matteau played in his draft year and he was playing 3rd line sometimes 2nd line in junior... how often did a 3rd line guy from juniors made the NHL and had an impact? Not saying it never happened but you know lol He played on the U.S. Development team in his draft year. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 He played on the U.S. Development team in his draft year. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ah right he was already drafted when i was watching him.... even worst lol he was a year older and still on the 3rd line in juniors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think if he's a cost-controlled 4th liner who can chip in for about 10 goals a year with hard nosed play, that would be fine. He's not the make or break piece of the rebuild. Sure, he's a first round pick, but it's not like he's a top 10 pick by any means. The Devils have plenty of need for talented forwards who can play scoring roles in the top 9, but expectations should probably not fall on Matteau to be one of them. Who knows, maybe he takes more of a Randy McKay path, carving out a feisty role, and maybe one day trying to move up the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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