Triumph Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) You do realize that you are arguing exactly what I said is too short sighted to argue, right? I gave two hypotheticals, and then said maybe a lot of things. Maybe Lou had a deal that would've gotten him Stamkos, we don't know what could have happened. Sure, look at the cap when Stastny was signed or what the Pens gave up for Kessel. Who's to say TO didn't want a great D prospect or that we would've bought out/traded our dead weight for Stastny space? That's not the point of what we are talking about (which I said it in the sentence before stating it) so enough about that. But to what we are actually talking about is simply this. We can interpret this words, sure. But Lou didn't leave 5 years ago on VDB, he left under Harris. In leaving, he referenced two things: his drive to still be making decisions and the financial situation of the Devils. I don't see in validity to saying it was VDB because he has been gone for two years. Say it was sour grapes (which I can actually see somewhat), say it was at least some Harris, but don't tell me that Harris is yet again the only angel. He was no longer the general manager which is the biggest reason for him to leave. I see plenty of validity in bringing up Vanderbeek because he's referenced in the past about how there were some things that he wanted to do that he could not under the previous regime, and he was referencing thoughts he was having years ago. What he seems to be saying is that he thought about leaving years ago, then the ownership changed, now that he's out as GM, he thought about it again, and he was given a pretty much perfect opportunity in Toronto and he took it. Harris doesn't have to be an angel here, in Lou's eyes obviously he's not, since this move makes it clear that Lou did not choose to leave the GM position on his own. All I was doing in striking down your hypotheticals was making it clear A: how much the Devils spent during the first true offseason under new ownership, where the Devils signed 2 of their own players to large long-term commitments, and also brought in one of the biggest free agents on the market while also retaining two players at quite a hefty sum and B: just how dire it is here; the Devils really can't make any large trades, much as it is fun to pretend that Lou had all sorts of great moves shot down by the Tank Brothers in charge. Edited July 24, 2015 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I think everyone is reading too much into Lou's words which, as we all know from experience, don't mean a whole lot. It is apparent that Lou was forced out by the new owners (rightly or wrongly) and wasn't ready for semi-retirement and a role which gave him no say or influence in how things were run. He got a job which would be provide him with his customary role as GM with some level of autonomy and, ultimately, decided to take it after what appears to be months of contemplation. I can't blame him for that. He wasn't going to be happy glad handing corporate clients all day and, since he apparently has no hobbies, full fledged retirement was not an option for him at this point. As for the financial comment during his press conference, I think that references Vanderbeek. However, it typical Lou fashion, it's so open ended that it can also be interpreted that Lou doesn't agree with the new owners pulling back the purse strings at this time based upon the rebuild philosophy Shero is employing (which I like at this point). Edited July 24, 2015 by Chuck the Duck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I already tried similar logic Chuck. These guys just enjoy the banter -- well - not banter - the stating and restating of the same point in different ways trying in vain to prove themselves "right" Someone really should give out a prize for "The NJDevs poster who was RIGHT today" so at least there is a point to it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOLLYWOOD Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Why "good riddance?" It would be a completely fair POV on Elias's part. He's spent his entire career on the Devils under one GM. At the end of his career, with a rebuilding team, he already serves to be a trade asset and to benefit from a trade. Now one of the only people still tying him to the team is gone and it only makes more sense for him to want to move on. I am not saying that's how he feels, but for you to say "good riddance" well...that's just dumb. Yep, Patty will have made $70 million with the Devils by seasons end, everyone knows his career is in the twilight stage but still has plenty of value as a talented veteran in a trade. Patty agreeing to 'taking one for the team' by accepting any trade or move this coming season would truly help this organization's future and Elias should do it in a heartbeat for a very rewarding career in New Jersey. Let's all hope coaching and management doesn't pull a Jagr or Ryder/etc, looking to trade/move players by deadline, only to undervalue the trade by having their ice time reduced or healthy scratch/benched. Man, talk about poor planning on moving players, though Jagr did garnish those two 2nd rounders from bubble Florida. Hopefully Elias/et al and management will play this out to the very best deal during the coming season for the future of the Devils franchise. My only concerns with the movements and hirings in management, I hope 'Shero doesn't become Nero' by surrounding himself with his 'Yes Men' and 'sycophants'... I understanding hiring people which you know their capabilities and trust is a plus, but we'll have to see if their just 'Yes Men'. I for one, always like to have some subjective and even objective personnel on staff just for a different perspective or angle on situations, noone is perfect because even the best make mistakes so having a team that covers all angles.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Lou had Vanderbeek melding in his operation, the the league more in because of the financial mess and they melded in Lou's operation and then the new owners watch Lou fail to deliver so they melded in his business. Net result Lou was moved out of the way of progress. Harris was willing to pay Lou for a year and not fire him. Clearly change was coming and not the changes that Lou accepted easily. Shanahan makes him an offer so he leaves. End of story. Ex Devils playes won't end up in Toronto because Lou doesn't have complete control there. It's called the Shanaplan. Shanahan is calling the shots about everything. Lou is there to groom Dubas the AGM. Best wishes to Lou. He put his full page letter in the Record not the Star Ledger obviously cheaper then the word spreads and we debate what he said. Time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Maybe, but I'm inclined to believe that he blames a lot of the recent struggles on financial instability that arose during the Vanderbeek ownership. Lou is a very proud guy and will not ever publicly give excuses for poor performance, but I think that's what this is in reference to. agreed 100% that is what Lou was trying to get at -but of course there is no known complete translation for Lou speak.Honestly I'm not worried about financials under Harris, at least not yet. If you want to worry about losing the culture or tradition that we've had for so long then yes I think there can be cause for concern but if anything ownership has shown a willingness to invest in the team IMO. I mean maybe Lou was hamstrung and couldn't sign clarkson to a 7 year 42 mil deal. If so that is a good thing lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazer Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 way to go beetle thank you lou the rest is yet to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Lou had Vanderbeek melding in his operation, the the league more in because of the financial mess and they melded in Lou's operation and then the new owners watch Lou fail to deliver so they melded in his business. Net result Lou was moved out of the way of progress. Harris was willing to pay Lou for a year and not fire him. Clearly change was coming and not the changes that Lou accepted easily. Shanahan makes him an offer so he leaves. End of story. Ex Devils playes won't end up in Toronto because Lou doesn't have complete control there. It's called the Shanaplan. Shanahan is calling the shots about everything. Lou is there to groom Dubas the AGM. Best wishes to Lou. He put his full page letter in the Record not the Star Ledger obviously cheaper then the word spreads and we debate what he said. Time to move on. He put his ad in the Star Ledger as well. Know what you are talking about before you try to knock the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonNala370 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) He put his ad in the Star Ledger as well. Know what you are talking about before you try to knock the guy. I stand corrected, I read it was only in the Record. BTW I read this morning that he said the financial restrictions he made reference to was when the league controlled the finances. Edited July 25, 2015 by BostonNala370 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 way to go beetle thank you lou the rest is yet to see I didn't think that WD'A actually got banned. I thought he had a differing opinion from most people, but so do I. What was it for? Populist sentiment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Not gonna lie... Welled up a little reading this: http://fireandice.northjersey.com/mobile/fire-ice-1.174987/emotional-day-for-lou-lamoriello-as-he-returns-to-prudential-center-to-begin-move-up-to-toronto-1.1380676 I didn't think that WD'A actually got banned. I thought he had a differing opinion from most people, but so do I. What was it for? Populist sentiment?He said he was going to be a Leafs fan and wished us 'good luck in Hartford'. He's a fvcking douchebag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I didn't think that WD'A actually got banned. I thought he had a differing opinion from most people, but so do I. What was it for? Populist sentiment? He said he was now a Leafs fan. I'm not a mod, so it wasn't my decision, but a person can be a fan of another team and post here, but if they're going to troll and claim to be a fan of a different team? Time to go. You're not trolling, there's a large difference. Edited July 25, 2015 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerzey Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Hearing Leafs are moving quickly under LL. "Quite likely" they'll hire David Conte, the 66-year old former Director of Scouting for NJD. https://mobile.twitter.com/bradyfan590/status/624782899737292800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themightyall Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 He said he was now a Leafs fan. I'm not a mod, so it wasn't my decision, but a person can be a fan of another team and post here, but if they're going to troll and claim to be a fan of a different team? Time to go. You're not trolling, there's a large difference. Honestly, whether or not you are a mod, you seem to be a mouth piece for a lot of the board. I never found him to be a "troll". Everyone sort of jumped on him because of his reputation as a troll, but he didn't seem to make comments that really made him one. Maybe that is my problem. I think that no one is actually "trolling" on this forum. Of course he was snide sometimes, but so do other people on this forum. What is really the criteria to be banned? Did he come here and say "Leafs rule, Devils drool"? Sure, arguments get tired but this team doesn't have anything to debate about any more. The owners and Shero already made their path and we just have to look forward eventually but the change did happen over only a few months. It still just felt like it was a matter of reputation rather than actual content for the banning, or just a populist movement that is making this board even more homogenized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Honestly, whether or not you are a mod, you seem to be a mouth piece for a lot of the board. I never found him to be a "troll". Everyone sort of jumped on him because of his reputation as a troll, but he didn't seem to make comments that really made him one. Maybe that is my problem. I think that no one is actually "trolling" on this forum. Of course he was snide sometimes, but so do other people on this forum. What is really the criteria to be banned? Did he come here and say "Leafs rule, Devils drool"? Sure, arguments get tired but this team doesn't have anything to debate about any more. The owners and Shero already made their path and we just have to look forward eventually but the change did happen over only a few months. It still just felt like it was a matter of reputation rather than actual content for the banning, or just a populist movement that is making this board even more homogenized. I don't think you understand how message boards work. On just about every other board I've ever been a part of, William would've been banned long ago. It's not for 'difference of opinon', it's how you express that difference of opinion. When you do it in one line sentiments that seem designed to make other people upset, that's generally seen as trolling and disruptive to the community. Edited July 25, 2015 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Honestly, whether or not you are a mod, you seem to be a mouth piece for a lot of the board. I never found him to be a "troll". Everyone sort of jumped on him because of his reputation as a troll, but he didn't seem to make comments that really made him one. Maybe that is my problem. I think that no one is actually "trolling" on this forum. Of course he was snide sometimes, but so do other people on this forum. What is really the criteria to be banned? Did he come here and say "Leafs rule, Devils drool"? Sure, arguments get tired but this team doesn't have anything to debate about any more. The owners and Shero already made their path and we just have to look forward eventually but the change did happen over only a few months. It still just felt like it was a matter of reputation rather than actual content for the banning, or just a populist movement that is making this board even more homogenized. I hear where you are coming from, but in this instance WDA deserved to be banned. His posts were constantly trolling. Sure, some of his posts were just differing opinions but many were not. So now he's announced that he's not a fan of the team anymore and wished the rest of the team good luck. The mods didn't do anything bad to WDA, according to his post, he got his wish. It's pure trolling on WDA's part, just to get a rise out of people. Is it completely fair that he got banned? Maybe not. But too bad, you don't fvck with a board that's emotional. And you certainly don't fvck with an NJD board when Lou Lamoriello just announced he's leaving the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 https://mobile.twitter.com/bradyfan590/status/624782899737292800 That would not be shocking if the Maple Leafs picked up Conte, or add Stevens in some capacity. That's kind of the issue when you have dictator, spoils system. Not to say Lou was the dictator, but even the mainstream NHL media knows that the Devils were a one man show for those 28 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Honestly, whether or not you are a mod, you seem to be a mouth piece for a lot of the board. I never found him to be a "troll". Everyone sort of jumped on him because of his reputation as a troll, but he didn't seem to make comments that really made him one. Maybe that is my problem. I think that no one is actually "trolling" on this forum. Of course he was snide sometimes, but so do other people on this forum. What is really the criteria to be banned? Did he come here and say "Leafs rule, Devils drool"? Sure, arguments get tired but this team doesn't have anything to debate about any more. The owners and Shero already made their path and we just have to look forward eventually but the change did happen over only a few months. It still just felt like it was a matter of reputation rather than actual content for the banning, or just a populist movement that is making this board even more homogenized. Look this doesn't matter to me much one way or another since I had WDA on ignore anyway and don't read this section of the board nearly as much as I used to - but no offense, you have less than 200 posts and half your posts seem to be just for defending him. He was 'already' banned under another name and shouldn't have been let back in once it was obvious who he was. Same with GR...that's where the lack of mods and mod attention hurts this place sometimes. I don't want to turn this into the Gelinas thread though, but when basically an entire board aside from you sees someone as a troll - that's not groupspeak, they actually are a troll. He was a troll that just posted for, and got attention from the people who didn't use the ignore feature or don't know what it is. And btw DM's a lot more patient than I or almost anyone else would be...you get banned by him, you'd pretty much get banned by any other board out there. Edited July 25, 2015 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSC Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Honestly, whether or not you are a mod, you seem to be a mouth piece for a lot of the board. I never found him to be a "troll". Everyone sort of jumped on him because of his reputation as a troll, but he didn't seem to make comments that really made him one. Maybe that is my problem. I think that no one is actually "trolling" on this forum. Of course he was snide sometimes, but so do other people on this forum. What is really the criteria to be banned? Did he come here and say "Leafs rule, Devils drool"? Sure, arguments get tired but this team doesn't have anything to debate about any more. The owners and Shero already made their path and we just have to look forward eventually but the change did happen over only a few months. It still just felt like it was a matter of reputation rather than actual content for the banning, or just a populist movement that is making this board even more homogenized. Mighty, I like you a lot and you've been a great addition to the board. You clearly put thought into your posts and you offer a dissenting opinion from a majority of the board which makes the forums dynamics more entertaining for us all. But there's a fine line between how you approach your opinions and how Billy D did. You just want to have a conversation; he wanted to get a rise out of people for his own entertainment. No reasonable person, regardless of their opinion on how the team is/should be run, would make that comment unless they were trying to piss people off. It got old going into every thread and seeing him derail it because people would respond to him. Should people have just taken the high road and put him on their ignore lists? Yeah, probably, but it's been proven time and time again that ignore lists don't really work when half of the forum quotes him in their posts to respond to him. Kind of a catch-22 there, ya know? Anyway, back on track... I've never really been clear on Chris Lamoriello's role in the organization. I know he's Albany's GM, but I'm entirely unclear on what an AHL GM does exactly. Wouldn't he basically be a facilitator for the whims of the big league club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzMB30 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Mighty, I like you a lot and you've been a great addition to the board. You clearly put thought into your posts and you offer a dissenting opinion from a majority of the board which makes the forums dynamics more entertaining for us all. But there's a fine line between how you approach your opinions and how Billy D did. You just want to have a conversation; he wanted to get a rise out of people for his own entertainment. No reasonable person, regardless of their opinion on how the team is/should be run, would make that comment unless they were trying to piss people off. It got old going into every thread and seeing him derail it because people would respond to him. Should people have just taken the high road and put him on their ignore lists? Yeah, probably, but it's been proven time and time again that ignore lists don't really work when half of the forum quotes him in their posts to respond to him. Kind of a catch-22 there, ya know? Anyway, back on track... I've never really been clear on Chris Lamoriello's role in the organization. I know he's Albany's GM, but I'm entirely unclear on what an AHL GM does exactly. Wouldn't he basically be a facilitator for the whims of the big league club? Let's get back to hockey. Pls. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=775588&navid=nhl:topheads Lou won't lure son to Toronto. Won't have the power to in my opinion. Says in the NHL.com article that he won't try to lure anyone from his former organization. This might or might not be good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 http://m.thn.com/blog/the-history-of-lou-lamoriello-friends-and-foes-tell-the-legendary-tale/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarDew Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Excellent article. Thnx for posting the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I don't really agree with the idea of banning people for having stupid opinions. If he was abusive towards people and didn't follow the rules, then by all means, go ahead. Granted, I don't pay attention to trolls like WDA so I may not be aware of the full scope of his activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe B Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 http://m.thn.com/blog/the-history-of-lou-lamoriello-friends-and-foes-tell-the-legendary-tale/ highly recommended . Can we ban Chere from, this site. He is such a troll now. 'Meadowlands Coliseum'? Shero is kinda funny. ' I was thinking, “What the hell did I do wrong? I’m not even in the league! Not mentioned in his piece, who was the player (Billington maybe?) who brought is fiance to meet Lou before they got married. Not sure if was for his blessing, or to discuss it, or just respect, (like meeting his parents)y. Anyway, Lou kicked the player out of the room for a few minutes to talk to the woman and she refused to tell the player what Lou said till this day (or at least when I read the story which I think was out when Lou was going into the HoF. kinda tough for younger fans to understand him because the 'Lou rules' are established, and when you are younger you tend to be anti establishment. Some of the rational for the rules have been explained int he past. We have always tended to be in the bottom for penalties taken, and to be disciplined on the ice, you have to be disciplined off the ice. Devils org does a lot for communities without always publicizing it. (My mom works for the town and they always give stuff for charities and events). Like players visiting hospitals. Do it for the kids / patients, don't do it for the PR of helping the kids. I freely admit I drink the kool-aid but it is because of the respect I have for him. That takes years of observation. Someone shouldn't just earn your respect overnight, so I do understand some of the anti Lou stuff if you just got into the team recently. I will just say i think your are wrong and if you read some of the quotes by former players(not all, casue I'm sure a few that were sent packing were not happy, who got shipped to Manitoba? one of the brotens maybe?) they would run thru walls for him. It may look different from the outside, but once you play for the organization, you appreciate it.(all opinion, but think I Gilmour mentioned it, I don't think Kovy signs with us if he wasn't part of the team for that half season(not sure if Lou signs him without seeing how he fit, although he may have been overruled by jvb ayway) so it's an educated opinion) I keep this up I may break my 30 some odd posts a year in this thread. I just think this is such a huge change, I just don't know what direction this franchise is going to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 http://m.thn.com/blog/the-history-of-lou-lamoriello-friends-and-foes-tell-the-legendary-tale/ I like how the media has hit the launch button on the stories for when Lou retires, because now they figure it's never going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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