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Mets 2015-16 Offseason Thread


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Like I said, I fully expected Collins to be extended.  I don't know how many Met games you watch, but I (and others here) can tell you that he's a mediocre manager at best, and is more likely to be a hindrance than a help.  The positive results in 2015 really didn't have much to do with him...like I said in previous posts, when Cespedes morphs into Manny Ramirez for about 40 games (and the entire offense is averaging around 6 runs per game for about two months) and all of your young and talented starting pitchers stay healthy and perform at extremely high levels for much of the season, and you have a closer who's dependable most games...I don't care who the manager is, you're going to get wins. 

 

No manager is perfect and that goes without saying.  Sometimes a manager makes the right call but doesn't get the desired result.  That will happen.  But with Collins, unfortunately a guy who was supposed to have been nothing more than a caretaking bridge-the-gap warm body is now in charge of a potential multiple-season contender when he really shouldn't be.  The World Series showed that he was in over his head...unnecessarily going to the Reed-Clip-Familia well in Game 3 showed a complete lack of creativity on his part (he also did this during the season on occasion), he let Harvey practically bully his way into coming out for the ninth...I actually was OK with Harvey getting a batter in the 9th, but Terry has never shown a great penchant for minimizing potential damage with his starters, and of course he left Harvey in one batter too long.  Clip seemed to be locked into the 8th-inning role no matter what, even though Reed had clearly been the better performer over the last several weeks.  There's no shortage of dopey decisions he's made as the Mets' skipper, and any Met fan can tell you he's done a lot of dumb things here since getting the job.  

 

Collins is basically like a lifetime .260 hitter who had one .325 career year due to a lot of good fortune, and just got rewarded for it.  I know that the Sandy and the Mets couldn't really fire Terry off a season like this, and again, it was hard not to think that Collins wouldn't be extended off a season like this.  Sandy would never admit it, but I'm guessing that while he's not against having extended Terry, he's probably not uber-thrilled about having to do it either.  

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Speaking as an outsider - the Free Agent market looks barren for Shortstops.

 

Joaquin Arias (31)
Mike Aviles (35)
Clint Barmes (37)
Willie Bloomquist (38)
Asdrubal Cabrera (30)
Ian Desmond (30)
Stephen Drew (33)
Alcides Escobar (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $500K buyout
Cliff Pennington (32)
Alexei Ramirez (34) – $10MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jimmy Rollins (37)
 
...yikes.  And calling Stephen Drew a shortstop at this stage of his career is a stretch to say the least.  
 
On the trade side, a deal centered around Wheeler for Castro makes some level of sense from a empirical perspective, but I have no idea how the parts will move around to make that work.
 
Obv the prize outfield bat this year is probably Hayward if he doesn't resign with the Cards, but he may be out of the Mets' price range.  If Span is healthy he may make sense; he's been a damn good leadoff hitter, but has had trouble staying on the field.  An outfield rotation of Granderson/Conforto/Span/Lagares seems like a pretty good OF assuming Conforto continues to develop.  
 
Infield-wise I guess the dream 2B is Howie Kendrick, who could lead off and play 2B, which bumps Granderson down to the 2nd spot in the lineup.  But I don't see a ton of options that improve them on a budget.  The only one that has some risk-reward that the Mets SHOULD be involved in is the posting process for Byung-ho Park - considering the Pirates got Jung-Ho Kang for $5 million posting and a 4/11 contract, that could be the cheapest place to find offensive production, and then Duda could be moved for help elsewhere.
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Like I said, I fully expected Collins to be extended.  I don't know how many Met games you watch, but I (and others here) can tell you that he's a mediocre manager at best, and is more likely to be a hindrance than a help.  The positive results in 2015 really didn't have much to do with him...like I said in previous posts, when Cespedes morphs into Manny Ramirez for about 40 games (and the entire offense is averaging around 6 runs per game for about two months) and all of your young and talented starting pitchers stay healthy and perform at extremely high levels for much of the season, and you have a closer who's dependable most games...I don't care who the manager is, you're going to get wins. 

 

No manager is perfect and that goes without saying.  Sometimes a manager makes the right call but doesn't get the desired result.  That will happen.  But with Collins, unfortunately a guy who was supposed to have been nothing more than a caretaking bridge-the-gap warm body is now in charge of a potential multiple-season contender when he really shouldn't be.  The World Series showed that he was in over his head...unnecessarily going to the Reed-Clip-Familia well in Game 3 showed a complete lack of creativity on his part (he also did this during the season on occasion), he let Harvey practically bully his way into coming out for the ninth...I actually was OK with Harvey getting a batter in the 9th, but Terry has never shown a great penchant for minimizing potential damage with his starters, and of course he left Harvey in one batter too long.  Clip seemed to be locked into the 8th-inning role no matter what, even though Reed had clearly been the better performer over the last several weeks.  There's no shortage of dopey decisions he's made as the Mets' skipper, and any Met fan can tell you he's done a lot of dumb things here since getting the job.  

 

Collins is basically like a lifetime .260 hitter who had one .325 career year due to a lot of good fortune, and just got rewarded for it.  I know that the Sandy and the Mets couldn't really fire Terry off a season like this, and again, it was hard not to think that Collins wouldn't be extended off a season like this.  Sandy would never admit it, but I'm guessing that while he's not against having extended Terry, he's probably not uber-thrilled about having to do it either.  

 

 

The Mets are the team that will be talked about. They'll be looked at differently. Hopefully they get it done. Not sure what happened to my response. It got trapped or vanished. Odd. To summarize, I feel Collins got a raw deal. Yes, he made some bad decisions with the pen. No doubt. Sticking with Clippard too long in the 8th before going to Familia. Not using Familia for the 6 out save as he had against LA. Harvey decision I understood. That was intense. Tho I agree with pulling him after the walk. Facing Hosmer in that situation. He's clutch. 
 
All that said, it was mostly mental mistakes that cost the Mets. Murphy's big error in Game 4. Cespedes base running gaffe that stunned Howie Rose. The two mistakes on Hosmer's tying run. Wright fielding the ball instead of Flores. Duda air mailing it. d'Arnaud's awful throws which turned any walk or single into a double. You can't expect to win that way. Once it went to extras, their only chance was for someone to go yard. Conforto just missed. He'll be some player.
 
Truth is it's easy to blame the manager. But all the mistakes in the field and mental errors is why they got beat. I'll say this too. I like Collins. He's all heart. The kind of skipper who is easy to root for. Always has his team's back. Always takes the heat. I want to see them win one with him as the manager. 
 
The Mets are the team now. They're the story. What happens this winter? If Murphy and Cespedes go, what do they do? And you can't have Flores as an every day SS. Wheeler returns. Colon probably signs elsewhere. Niese should be kept. 
Edited by Derek21
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Actually not putting the World Series loss strictly on Collins' shoulders...it's not his fault that Wright is as unclutch as they come, and that both he and Duda predictably did very little for much of the playoffs (I've always felt that both could be pitched to and gotten out pretty easily...Murph's heroics really covered up for a lot of their failures.  I actually wasn't all that surprised that Cespedes didn't do much either...I won't be the slightest bit upset when some other team overpays for him...I'm just glad it won't be the Mets.)  It's not on Collins that the entire infield is shaky defensively. 

 

And one thing I've always maintained about Collins is that his players have always played hard for him...it hasn't always appeared that way, and every team goes through the motions sometimes, but a team that struggles offensively (like the Mets often have over the past several seasons) can look like it's not trying. 

 

Collins has always been iffy when it comes to on-field decisions.  His pitching staff management has been atrocious on a number of memorable occasions.  And he's been shaky in other areas.  There's times where he's come off as befuddled and downright clueless.  There's a reason why it took as long as it did for him to get another chance to manage, when absolutely no one else wanted anything to do with him...and that last chance was offered by a team that wasn't really intending on keeping him around as long as they have.  A lot of things broke right for Terry to keep the job for as long as he has, just like a lot of things broke right for his team to get to the World Series.

 

There's obviously some serious variables that won't be resolved right away.  The 2016 teams is going to be markedly different than the 2015 version.  Cespedes is as good as gone (and I'll admit that if he's somehow brought back, I won't be happy about it).  If you believe everything you've heard about Murph, with the Mets never having had any interest in bringing him back (unless it's for the one-year qualifying offer), then he's probably gone too.  They can't possibly gamble with Flores playing SS again (he can't do it, which the Mets always knew, but they played it cheap, and there wasn't really an outside-the-organization slam-dunk option for them anyway), so who knows what happens with him (and like I've said, having Flores, Lagares, and a pitcher in the lineup everyday is playing with fire...those guys make too many outs).  I could go on (Clip will be gone as well, though I wonder if the market for him took a hit with the way he pitched down the stretch and in the playoffs), but Terry is going to have a much different team to work with in 2016.  It wouldn't surprise me if the Mets started a little slowly out of the gates, and it wouldn't surprise me if Terry made some baffling decisions that won't help. 

 

He's only signed for two years at relatively low money (2 years @ $1.5 mil per), and though some will say "Typical Mets, typical Wilpons" when it comes to that deal, I think this deal makes sense for both parties, given the circumstances...I don't think Terry had anyplace else to go (especially with him apparently thinking retirement in the near future), so he didn't have much leverage, and I think he probably knows that he's no lock to finish this deal out (I don't think Sandy will hesitate to fire Terry if the team is not performing through the All-Star Break), so that's $3 million Terry's got coming to him no matter what.  He got a contract that was as low as it could be without being insulting, but still plenty enough that he can retire with a nice nest egg.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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I want Mets to find us a real life Willie Mays Hayes. The Mets need a serious infusion of speed in the lineup. They obviously aren't going to spend money yet again. Cespedes is gone. SA has already conceded this much saying the trade was already worth even if the Mets lose Cespedes to the FA market. Daniel Murphy is gone too. Unless, he does the unthinkable and signs his QO. So the Mets are back in a place where they are going to have to find a way to score again. The answer: smallball. It plays to their ballpark and their pitching first makeup. Obviously, TC doesn't know how to play smallball and SA doesn't think a manager means much to a team. So, I expect the Mets to go in 2016 like they went into 2015, hoping they pitch well enough to get in to the playoffs and then anything can happen. I believe they can pitch their way in but if they don't replace Cespedes and Murphy then they won't make it very far.

Here's the story of a real up and coming Mays Hayes. Too bad he's not ours...

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2015/5/18/8609485/detroit-tigers-wynton-bernard-prospect-update

Edited by capo
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If the Mets pick up Desmond (especially for that kind of money) I'm gonna be beyond pissed.  That is EXACTLY the kind of hitter the Mets should be staying away from, for one thing.  He's struck out 370 times the past two seasons, with slash lines of .255/.313/.430 and .233/.290/.384.  His OB+SLG has sharply declined in each of the past three seasons, from .846 in 2012 to .674 in 2015.  And the cherry of top of this sh!t sundae:  51 errors made over the past two years. 

 

The Mets have enough low-average hitters who don't really get on base and strike out plenty.  The last thing they need is another one of those guys.  They need to start finding more guys who can get their bats on the ball. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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I really don't follow baseball all that closely anymore, but from listening to various offseason scenarios for the Mets on ethe Fan and other places, one idea popped in my head for whatever reason, was that the Mets sign David Price and trade one of their young pitchers for a good bat that's relatively affordable.

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I really don't follow baseball all that closely anymore, but from listening to various offseason scenarios for the Mets on ethe Fan and other places, one idea popped in my head for whatever reason, was that the Mets sign David Price and trade one of their young pitchers for a good bat that's relatively affordable.

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This is intriguing. Although, Alderson has already said he's not moving any of his big 4. Wheeler's value is down at the moment. I would love to see the Mets send Duda to ChiSox for SS prospect Tim Anderson. I'm not sure Duda would get it done...

For what it's worth, MLBTR has put out its top 50 list of Free Agents and their predicted destinations.

The Mets are predicted to lose Murphy, Clippard, and Cespedes but pick up Desmond (5/80) and Fowler (4/60).

Desmond is a horrible idea and he's not better than Flores.
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This is intriguing. Although, Alderson has already said he's not moving any of his big 4. Wheeler's value is down at the moment.

Yeah, but obviously the idea is that you are getting Price for "just money" and perhaps about the same that you would have to pay Harvey or De Grom sooner or later. Whether Alderson has thought about that, or if he has the budget to try something like it, I have no idea.

As I said, I don't follow baseball that closely anymore, but De Grom seems like one of those pitchers whose value has peaked. So he'd be the one I try to pull off another Dickey or Beltran trade with.

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Yeah, but obviously the idea is that you are getting Price for "just money" and perhaps about the same that you would have to pay Harvey or De Grom sooner or later. Whether Alderson has thought about that, or if he has the budget to try something like it, I have no idea.

As I said, I don't follow baseball that closely anymore, but De Grom seems like one of those pitchers whose value has peaked. So he'd be the one I try to pull off another Dickey or Beltran trade with.

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I'd love to have Price. I'm not sure I would trade deGrom to make room for him though I understand your argument. If I'm dealing one of the pitchers it would be Harvey for all his nonsense.

The Jays may pony up and keep Price. The Yankees are his most likely destination and probably true for Murphy too. The Mets are likely after 2nd tier FAs like Span, Parra, and Fowler.

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Boomer and Carton reporting that Pepsi Porch (I always hated the whole "Pepsi Porch" thing...felt kind of artificial and forced) is no more.  Pepsi is pulling their sponsorship, and Carton said that the red lighted Pepsi Cola sign (which has been a fixture since Citi opened) has already been removed. 

 

Publicly, Pepsi is saying they want to re-invest the money spent at Citi into the Chicago market, as they feel that Pepsi is already adequately represented in the New York baseball market in Yankee Stadium.  FWIW, someone claiming to be a Pepsi employee called into the B&C's show and said the real reason for Pepsi pulling out is that the Mets wanted to go with Poland Spring instead of Aquafina for its bottled water offering (Aquafina is a Pepsi product), which Pepsi viewed as a deal-breaker.  Supposedly the Mets are already in talks with Coca-Cola to be a potential replacement sponsor.   

 

Can't say I care much one way or the other. 

 

Capo, still want Reyes over Wright?  Not only is he a shadow of what he was, he's always had a bit of punk in him (as much as I get on Wright, the guy has always been nothing but classy).  And now there's this:

 

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2015/11/10/9703138/mets-jose-reyes-arrested-domestic-abuse

 

But, to be fair, I've always said that there's more to these cases than what's often reported (man abused woman!), and that men usually get judged instantly in these cases, while the women are almost always painted as blameless victims.  When it comes to domestic abuse cases, women can get away with just about anything, compared to a man...of course, there's the famous story about how Lionel Ritchie was caught cheating by his then-wife, who beat him up and divorced him.  Not much outrage over that one, and I'm sure a lot of women were probably laughing and saying "That's right, teach his lyin' cheatin' ass a lesson...you go girl!"  Imagine if the story had been "Lionel Ritchie caught his then-wife cheating, then beat her up and divorced her!"  No one's chuckling then.

 

Not saying that it's ever right for anyone to hit anyone (unless it's in pure self-defense, and even in those cases men often get screwed), and although I think that Reyes has never really been a swell guy, it's only fair to see what exactly all of the evidence in this case was.  Did she strike him first?  Did she strike him repeatedly until he finally had enough?  Did she verbally harass and taunt Reyes for an extended period of time?  Not implying that under even those circumstances Reyes had a right to assault her, but a lot of women feel like they can say and do anything they want to to men because they're women...they feel insulated against any kind of retribution.  I've said it before in a couple of threads, but if a woman verbally abuses a man, then starts hitting him, and then the man finally dares to protect himself and pushes the woman away and she happens to fall onto the floor or an object that leaves her with a mark of any kind, guess who's getting arrested and shackled and hauled off when the cops show up?  It ain't the woman.  And if the guy never defends himself, you'll have the "OMG, you got beat up by a girl!" crowd chiming in, and a fair number of women saying "Well, he probably deserved it."  Switch the genders and the reaction is quite different.  And though there's definitely one too many men who beat women, most men think that men that do engage in this kind of behavior are vile and disgusting for doing it (and I'm one of them).  I just hate the double-standard and the way these incidents are often reported. 

 


Not really Met related at this point but geez now you can forget about Reyes ever coming back to the Mets (or being acknowledged by them)...few things athletes do surprise me anymore but this is definitely one of them :(

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jose-reyes-arrested-allegedly-assaulting-wife-report-n460486

 

Just commented on this in the above post...Reyes could turn out to be 100% guilty and to blame in this case, and if he is then shame on him, he'll deserve punishment, but I want to see all of the facts first. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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While I don't disagree with the premise there could be more to it it just seems as if there aren't as many false claims of domestic violence with athletes as there are with rape (ask Patrick Kane or Duke lacrosse).

And on a more benign note Pepsi Porch just rolled off the tongue, I hope the next sponsor has something as catchy :lol:

Edited by NJDevs4978
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While I don't disagree with the premise there could be more to it it just seems as if there aren't as many false claims of domestic violence with athletes as there are with rape (ask Patrick Kane or Duke lacrosse).

And on a more benign note Pepsi Porch just rolled off the tongue, I hope the next sponsor has something as catchy :lol:

 

Not declaring Reyes innocent or guilty or guilty with an explanation...like I said, he absolutely could be 100% guilty for what's been reported thus far and could be completely in the wrong.  But there also could be a whole set of circumstances that led up to the only thing being reported that could paint both parties in a different light.  We haven't heard the whole story yet. 

 

And in the "more benign" vein...I just like when ballparks get their little area nicknames organically.  I think that's the kind of thing that happened with old ballparks (as well as some of the kooky dimensions or quirks that often came about due to limited building space, like with Fenway for example).  With the new retro parks, it's sometimes feels like the architects are trying too hard to shoehorn something quirky or unique.  Pepsi Porch did roll off the tongue, but like I said, it just felt very corporate and manufactured to me. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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ugh, Reyes. Always with a smile on his face, happy go lucky loveable guy...and now this. Kind of ruins it for me. What kind of man does this to a woman(and not saying Jose is guilty, we don't know yet)...seriously athletes these days are just out of control psychopaths and nothing they do surprises me.

 

Never cared much for the porch either. Overhang was a Tiger Stadium ripoff, but I have to admit the Pepsi had become a familiar "part of the furniture" regarding the Citi Field experience. But I'm sure they'll just replace it with another old timey glowing sign and that will be that.

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fwiw I think the Mets interests are 1. Fowler 2. Parra 3. Span. They'll get one of them. Had interested in Parra this season but never came to fruition. Fowler give you speed, a high OBP, and pretty good power. He's a Sandy Alderson player through and through

 

Yankees say they have no interest in Murphy? Don't really believe it. 

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Re: Yankees

 

I doubt they're going to be in on someone like Price on a FA contract - it's an appealing thought in theory, but I think they end up with a second-tier pitcher (Jeff Samardzija or Jordan Zimmerman), make a HARD play for Jason Heyward, and then trade Gardner and/or Miller for another SP.  That's probably plan A.  From a Mets perspective, Price CAN be had.  

 

Also, the Yankees have prioritized defense over offense on the infield in particular in past offseasons, so I fully believe they have no interest in Murphy at 2B.  They have their own Murphy in Refsnyder, and he couldn't beat Stephen freakin' Drew for playing time.

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ugh, Reyes. Always with a smile on his face, happy go lucky loveable guy...and now this. Kind of ruins it for me. What kind of man does this to a woman(and not saying Jose is guilty, we don't know yet)...seriously athletes these days are just out of control psychopaths and nothing they do surprises me.

 

Never cared much for the porch either. Overhang was a Tiger Stadium ripoff, but I have to admit the Pepsi had become a familiar "part of the furniture" regarding the Citi Field experience. But I'm sure they'll just replace it with another old timey glowing sign and that will be that.

 

I think incidents similar to what may have taken place with Reyes happened quite a bit in the past too, but it wasn't reported or brought up nearly as much...and you didn't have nearly as many media outlets trying to outscoop each other. 

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No way those teams are doing business on that kind of level (even if there was one that could help both teams).  They've made exactly two deals in the last 11 years, and neither were barnburners. 

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