New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Oh well...tomorrow is another day.  This can be an infuriating team to watch at times.

And one last fvcking strikeout for good measure. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Devils Pride 26]

Lol Harvey sucks. Go get your mani-pedi with Hank, you fraud. Biggest prim madonnas in pro sports 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I do think Harvey will improve.  I just can't see him finishing the year with an ERA a tick below 5.00.  

Offense definitely concerns me.  Too one-dimensional and too many "they are what they are" hitters in the everyday lineup.  I like Conforto a lot, but he's probably being asked to do too much right now.  

['7']

The book got out on Conforto quickly and they adjusted to him, and now he's taking the bait every single time. It's just the process of maturation for a young hitter, now he's got to study the pitchers, make his adjustments, and stay one step ahead. That's how the great hitters do it.

Harvey...I don't know, does his velocity dip severely in the middle innings? Is it conditioning? But when you live the lifestyle that he does, when you make the comments that he's made, when you have that prick Boras in your ear...sorry we can live with that when you're the Dark Knight. We have no tolerance for that when you're pitching like Dave Mlicki.

Duda is 4 for his last 26 with 0 rbi in his last 9 games. That has to change. Walker also hasn't had a single RBI in his last 11 games. I knew he wasn't going to hit HR's forever but this stretch for him has been beyond awful

['7']

The Mets better hit like hell today because the early returns for Verrett in Colorado are not promising.

[NJDevs4978]

10 minutes ago, '7' said:

The Mets better hit like hell today because the early returns for Verrett in Colorado are not promising.

Unfortunately there was a bit of a market correction due after his great start in Coors last year and otherworldly numbers so far this year.

['7']

One of those nights

Salvage tomorrow and run home...gotta focus on beating the Nats

Edited May 15, 2016 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

fvcking umps.  Thanks for nothing.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Second straight scoreless outing for Montero last night.  His last two starts:  11.2 IP, 6 H, 0 ER, 5 BB, 13 K.  Gonna be hard for me to have much confidence in him anytime soon, but at least that's something.

Herrera's numbers not too far off from where they were last season after a slow start.  Probably going to finish his AAA season with PCL-inflated numbers...which means we won't really know what to expect come 2017.

[NJDevs4978]

lol thank goodness the Fish of all teams helped us out with the Nats this weekend cause it looks like we're about to get freaking swept here.

[NJDevs4978]

21 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

fvcking umps.  Thanks for nothing.

Times ten today...whoever the second base umpire that was who called Lagares for running out of the baseline was probably trying to stick it to Terry after he eviscerated the umps yesterday.

And how on earth does the crew not default to the THIRD base umpire's call, when he said safe and was right on top of it?!

Edited May 15, 2016 by NJDevs4978

['7']

No doubt, this was not a mistake...this was the umps sticking it to the Mets thanks to Terry's comments.

Swept in Colorado is inexcusable

[NJDevs4978]

lol other than Campbell the ninth inning looked like getaway day AB's in a 7-1 midweek game instead of a one-run game trying to avoid a sweep.

Edited May 15, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Horrible weekend.  This is why this will be a 90-win team and not 95+.  All of the flaws on full display in the series.  And the Corner Loser Twins will keep getting lots o' playing time.  I am so sick of Doofus and Wright.  At least Doofus should be gone after this year.  

['7']

De Aza I thought would be a solid contributor. Done zilch. Total bust. Sandy has a mixed record in finding these types. He hit on Hairston and Byrd, but there was also Andres Torres and the like. Can Nimmo or Bernadina in Vegas do any worse at this point? Give them a shot.

32 runs in the last 11 games is not going to cut it. (though we've still allowed the 2nd fewest runs in baseball with the starting staff underperforming...Harvey especially laying an egg)

If there is any sort of plus to the recent skid...I would have to say it's Plawecki who at least is no longer a total black hole with the bat. Thought at least with d'Arnaud you would see some power with him. None of that with Plawecki.

That said I would still go and get Jonathan Lucroy. It will cost, but we are making a World Series push and he would be a final piece to this offense. Solid, sound hitter.

Granderson needs to wake the fvck up as well. We can live with him at .235 if his OBP is up around .330 but he can't sit at .200. He's gotta start drawing walks again as well.

Edited May 16, 2016 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 hours ago, '7' said:

No doubt, this was not a mistake...this was the umps sticking it to the Mets thanks to Terry's comments.

Swept in Colorado is inexcusable

The only thing about that is that Torres could've screwed the Mets himself very easily, but it was the second base ump that decided to overrule Torres.  But iffy umping is a league-wide problem for sure, not to mention that these fvckers never have to answer for anything, and they know it all too well...it's right there on their smug little faces.

The good news is that the offense is too good to be as bad as they've been on the WC swing...but this is how it's going to be...a surge that gets them to middle-of-the-pack in runs scored, then a slump that knocks them back down to 10th or 11th.  It's not ideal by any stretch, but I don't know what the Mets can really do about it.

It really comes down to three players:  Wright, Duda, and Granderson.  I'm not really worried about the other guys (though I should probably be more concerned about the catching situation than I am). Wright is a lost cause, but the Mets will continue to treat him like he should get much more respect than he deserves, and there's no one to push him, so on that one they're fvcked.  I would live to see Sandy find a first baseman, but even though we've seen more than enough of Duda to know what he is, he'll get plenty more ABs...he's rarely been held accountable when he's been invisible for weeks and even months at a time, so I don't expect that to start now.  I'm more hopeful with Granderson, though I probably shouldn't be.  No reason he can't revert to 2013-2014 form...last season was more of the outlier, really.

[nmigliore]

After a nice upward trend, looks like deGrom's fell back down again yesterday, below even Opening Day levels. Harvey's velocity graph by start is up and down (he averages 95 one start and then 92-93 the next). So odd. Have to wonder how much last season's deep playoff run is affecting their arms.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

38 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

After a nice upward trend, looks like deGrom's fell back down again yesterday, below even Opening Day levels. Harvey's velocity graph by start is up and down (he averages 95 one start and then 92-93 the next). So odd. Have to wonder how much last season's deep playoff run is affecting their arms.

That's why anyone who thinks the Mets have their rotation set for the next five years is off-base.  The time is now for this group.  They all rely on velocity to a certain extent.  They're all clearly a lot less imposing without it (and deGrom's actually been pretty lucky in his last couple of games...a lot of hard-hit balls right at fielders). 

And how it can be a surprise when these guys can barely go 200 IP anymore?  They're babied in the minors to the tune of mostly 5 IP-outings and innings limits that so far have not proven that they're helping guys last longer at all.  deGrom is almost 28 years old already...maybe he's simply just losing a few mph off his fastball, and nothing could've prevented it.

[nmigliore]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

That's why anyone who thinks the Mets have their rotation set for the next five years is off-base.  The time is now for this group.  They all rely on velocity to a certain extent.  They're all clearly a lot less imposing without it (and deGrom's actually been pretty lucky in his last couple of games...a lot of hard-hit balls right at fielders). 

 

Even if these guys looked like their 2015-selves, performance- and velocity-wise, this would still be accurate. Pitchers eventually break - that's why they do. Despite the constant monitoring of pitch counts and innings, nobody has really figured out how to keep pitchers healthy. This is also why I never get too worked up over the [insert current ace] extension talks; by the time these guys are ready to walk in free agency, they're damaged goods and typically not worth the huge investments.

This is also why, during each team's rebuild over the last 3+ years, the more analytic folk have been pushing the Cubs as having the stronger foundation since they are built around position players.

Edited May 16, 2016 by nmigliore

['7']

One thing I'll say is that it seems a bit too early for guys like deGrom and Harvey to peak...and i truly would be a dissapointment if they have already. 30...31? Ok...still upsetting but understandable. But not 27 and 28.

Interesting how all of these guys are so different physically. deGrom the stringbean. Thor...Gronkowski with a glove, Harvey, kinda pudgy and yet they will invariably run into the same issues. And Colon who is legit obese and keeps chugging.

Lots of guys have underperformed this year in general. Scherzer despite his 20k game has not been good, neither has Greinke. I dont even know how they patch up Tanaka but he hasnt been anything special either. Verlander...that mystique is gone

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, nmigliore said:

Even if these guys looked like their 2015-selves, performance- and velocity-wise, this would still be accurate. Pitchers eventually break - that's why they do. Despite the constant monitoring of pitch counts and innings, nobody has really figured out how to keep pitchers healthy. This is also why I never get too worked up over the [insert current ace] extension talks; by the time these guys are ready to walk in free agency, they're damaged goods and typically not worth the huge investments.

This is also why, during each team's rebuild over the last 3+ years, the more analytic folk have been pushing the Cubs as having the stronger foundation since they are built around position players.

I've always felt that way, re:  the bolded.  If the guy gets through his team-control and arb years still on top of his game, then maybe you worry about the extension then, if ever.  But yeah, right now I'm not even thinking about signing any of these guys long-term, unless it's to something extremely team-friendly.  It's so much ado about nothing...in 3-4 years we may not even want these guys around.  It's just way too early to tell how long they're going to be effective (and to worry about their long-term futures as Mets).   

Yeah, star position players definitely seem like better bets than star pitchers...though sadly we've seen first-hand how a once-terrific position player can become a shell of himself...AFTER he gets the big contract.

37 minutes ago, '7' said:

One thing I'll say is that it seems a bit too early for guys like deGrom and Harvey to peak...and i truly would be a dissapointment if they have already. 30...31? Ok...still upsetting but understandable. But not 27 and 28.

Interesting how all of these guys are so different physically. deGrom the stringbean. Thor...Gronkowski with a glove, Harvey, kinda pudgy and yet they will invariably run into the same issues. And Colon who is legit obese and keeps chugging.

Lots of guys have underperformed this year in general. Scherzer despite his 20k game has not been good, neither has Greinke. I dont even know how they patch up Tanaka but he hasnt been anything special either. Verlander...that mystique is gone

Look at when Dwight Gooden and Ron Darling peaked.  Sid Fernandez was still good but had issues with health from after his age 29 season.  Not the best of examples of course...Gooden had off-the-field issues, and Fernandez clearly struggled with his weight...but guys who are able to stay in top form past their late-20s aren't growing on trees...and today's dominator can become tomorrow's meh. 

['7']

The best strategy with young arms may be burn and churn and hope to win a ws or two in peak years.

If the Mets won it last year...trade Harvey, get a good young stud pitcber and a good young bat. Reload for, I dunno 2018...young stud aquired im Harvey trade contributes...but Thor now may have peaked...trade for another great young arm and bat. So you'll never have that legendary top 4 or 5 locking down the rotation forever, but you keep turning one or two of them over every 3-4 years and getting rid of them early rather than late...all the while hoping you can find at least two rubber armed mainstays that can buck the trend.

Maybe Matz will be the mainstay, maybe it will be Wheeler, Harvey, deGrom. They can go into so many different directions. I just hope out of the five studs we have (or had?) TWO can be solid stud pitchers and still dominant in 5 years. And the one's that arent. I hope we have the wisdom to jettison them early.

The strategy may not to be figuring out how to keep the arms healthy, but rather how to work around their fragility and make it work for you.

Edited May 16, 2016 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

2 hours ago, '7' said:

One thing I'll say is that it seems a bit too early for guys like deGrom and Harvey to peak...and i truly would be a dissapointment if they have already. 30...31? Ok...still upsetting but understandable. But not 27 and 28.

Interesting how all of these guys are so different physically. deGrom the stringbean. Thor...Gronkowski with a glove, Harvey, kinda pudgy and yet they will invariably run into the same issues. And Colon who is legit obese and keeps chugging.

Lots of guys have underperformed this year in general. Scherzer despite his 20k game has not been good, neither has Greinke. I dont even know how they patch up Tanaka but he hasnt been anything special either. Verlander...that mystique is gone

Yeah I really hope we haven't already seen the best of Harvey/deGrom cause then people REALLY are gonna be running scared when it comes to pitch count and innings limits.  Strausberg shutdowns will become the norm rather than a well-publicized exception.

As it is even if you manage to keep guys healthy for several years eventually they pay the piper.  Scherzer and Verlander have both had nice, long careers...Scherzer's been a horse the last seven plus years and Verlander had eight straight 200+ IP seasons before last year - that's about the most you can hope for with a pitcher.  Felix is another one, he's had ten straight years of 190+ IP.  Now all three of them are in their early 30's and declining, at least the last two are and Scherzer's had an uneven last several months.   

Edited May 16, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Herrera with 6 HR in his last 9 games in AAA...now up to a .932 OB+SLG (he's now slugging .594 on the season).  Not sure if he's bulked up at all (the Vegas site lists him at 5' 10" 150 lbs, which sounds skinny, to say the least), but with this HR surge he's now well ahead of last year's pace. 

17 hours ago, '7' said:

The best strategy with young arms may be burn and churn and hope to win a ws or two in peak years.

If the Mets won it last year...trade Harvey, get a good young stud pitcber and a good young bat. Reload for, I dunno 2018...young stud aquired im Harvey trade contributes...but Thor now may have peaked...trade for another great young arm and bat. So you'll never have that legendary top 4 or 5 locking down the rotation forever, but you keep turning one or two of them over every 3-4 years and getting rid of them early rather than late...all the while hoping you can find at least two rubber armed mainstays that can buck the trend.

Maybe Matz will be the mainstay, maybe it will be Wheeler, Harvey, deGrom. They can go into so many different directions. I just hope out of the five studs we have (or had?) TWO can be solid stud pitchers and still dominant in 5 years. And the one's that arent. I hope we have the wisdom to jettison them early.

The strategy may not to be figuring out how to keep the arms healthy, but rather how to work around their fragility and make it work for you.

Billy Beane went that route with Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson.  Mulder was dealt to St. Louis after his age 26 season (despite going 17-8, some of his numbers were heading in the wrong direction), had one good last year at age 27, then was basically finished.  Beane basically got Zito's best and let him walk to SF after his age 28 season...SF then got his worst (he was a little unlucky, but clearly nowhere near as good as he'd been with Oakland, and vastly overpaid to boot).  Hudson was good to very good for Atlanta for several years (dealt there after his age 28-29 season), but Beane clearly wasn't interested in spending limited funds on big contracts for his arms. 

Obviously now is not the time to start trading these guys...but it will happen sooner than some think. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

When I heard Sandy talking about a surgery on the radio my first reaction was 'OMG what pitcher's done for?!'  Of course it was quickly obvious he was talking about himself and a procedure related to his (still unnamed) cancer treatment.  He's definitely still taking a business as usual approach though, so guess we can't do much but hope for the continued best for his health too.