New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

[capo]

Pretty hard to believe they would take Niese back after his parting shots at his teammates in the field.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 hours ago, capo said:

Pretty hard to believe they would take Niese back after his parting shots at his teammates in the field.

If the Mets are willing to take back a guy involved in domestic abuse, they probably won't think too much of bringing back a mentally soft lefty who should've just kept his mouth shut.  

As far as a Bastardo-Niese swap goes...no, it's not going to be the kind of deal that excites anyone, and the Mets having to kick in some money isn't great either...but Bastardo has just been terrible this year, and is probably permanently in Terry's doghouse.  And we know how it goes with the Village Idiot:  he'll ride Blevins, Reed, and Familia until their arms fall off.  Bastardo is likely finished as a Met now, so there probably isn't much point in keeping him around.

As for Niese...if the Mets weren't having so many arms doing nothing in AAA, they never entertain the thought...but the guy who's obviously going to have the biggest influence here is Verrett.  He's now walking a lot of guys, which has me wondering if he's pitching a little scared, or if hitters have adjusted to him (with him struggling to adjust back).  I'm not sure how much patience the Mets are going to have with him...one more meh-to-crappy start might be all it takes.  

Basically, this is all a way of saying that the unthinkable might happen.  Mets could unload a no-longer-ideal contract.  They don't have anyone from within who can really help and don't have the prospects to bring in someone better.  They'd only have Niese in the fold for 2.5-3 months, and if Wheeler can come back (is ANYONE surprised there was a setback?), Niese might not even be in the rotation for long.  He could suck for sure, but he did pitch well for a while earlier this season.  I'm definitely not an advocate for his return, and Bastardo could bounce back in 2017 (anyone can have a bad year) and make that contract not seem as awful as it does right now...but considering the Mets' needs right at this moment, and having a little extra money to play with in 2017 (as a result of unloading some of Bastardo's contact)...I grit my teeth really, really hard...and make the swap.  

Edited July 16, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

In a straight up deal for Bastardo I'd think I'd do it but I'm not giving up an asset. I didn't like the Bastardo signing to begin with. I just don't see Niese being happy to be here.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

No way the Mets give up an asset here...the only concession they would make would be to send a little money the other way, as Bastardo is still signed for another year.  This is the classic "didn't work out for didn't work out, maybe changes of scenery for each guy gets something going...what the hell do we have to lose?" scenario.

With Niese, it can be anything from a disaster to a good short-term gain.  No way to know until it actually happens, with Niese being so damned inconsistent.  The biggest anomaly in Niese's 2016 season has been the amount of HRs allowed (he's also given up even more hits than is usual for him).  Maybe some CitiField starts would help him out. 

At any rate, he'd be getting a chance to start when he doesn't really deserve it, and would still be in playoff contention.  It's not going to get any better than that for him.  It's no one's fault but his own that he's sucked...he should be thrilled that a team might be willing to give him a rotation slot (even if it's likely temporary).  Keep in mind he'd also be getting a chance to audition for a shot to start somewhere in 2017...it seems like a serious longshot that his 2017 option gets picked up no matter where he ends up.  If he's at least decent as a starter, who knows...maybe that's worth an extra million or so on the "show me" deal he's going to get stuck signing.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

4 hours ago, capo said:

In a straight up deal for Bastardo I'd think I'd do it but I'm not giving up an asset. I didn't like the Bastardo signing to begin with. I just don't see Niese being happy to be here.

Beggars can't be choosers...he'll go anywhere that he gets an opportunity to start, especially presuming his 2017-18 options aren't going to be picked up at this point.

['7']

This was an annoying loss. Unclutch hitting plus bad luck and this is what happens. Verrett is bad but he did the job against an awful lineup. Cabrera cracked one with bases loaded 2 out but naturally Asche has the ball hold up long enough to make the play.

Nothing more to say. They can't get big hits. They cannot get a single hit with 2 outs and RISP. Big surprise

Pitt isnt even trying against Washington. Total forfeit. Mets 7 out now. The division is over.

[NJDevs4978]

Cabrera's 0 for his last 26 with RISP...fitting right in.  

And Neris has like fifty strikeouts against the Mets this season

 

['7']

15 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Cabrera's 0 for his last 26 with RISP...fitting right in.  

And Neris has like fifty strikeouts against the Mets this season

 

I had no idea it was that bad for him. He's done a nice job overall but...29 RBI's on July 17th is a pretty pathetic total.

 

 

[NJDevs4978]

lol Terry at least wait for two baserunners in one inning before you start getting everyone up on high alert in a 5-0 game

[NJDevs4978]

I don't know what's more remarkable a complete game one-hit shutout in baseball 2015 or the fact the only hit was the freaking opposing pitcher 

Either way the Mets needed a game like this badly before going into Wrigley, rest the pitching staff and have no angst...not to mention just taking two out of three from the Phillies.

Edited July 17, 2016 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Clutch outing by deGrom. He wasnt exactly mowing down the 27 Yankees but losing 2 of 3 to Philly wouldve been unacceptable. He never gave the Phillies a chance.

 

Only hit by the pitcher. Argh. But it was early in the game so a no hitter was never a chance

[NJDevs4978]

3 minutes ago, '7' said:

Only hit by the pitcher. Argh. But it was early in the game so a no hitter was never a chance

Just as well cause the Howard walk would have REALLY annoyed me then since he would have been going for a perfecto, not just a no-hitter.

['7']

Oh enough already Murphy

2 outs two strikes to Murph down 1-0

Game tying HR

God is making it up to the Nats this year in unprecedented fashion. This is unreal.

[NJDevs4978]

MVP

Oyieee

['7']

I would say yes. He is the MVP at this point

[NJDevs4978]

This is actually reminding me of the years Chipper and Jimmy Rollins both won the MVP off our backs (I think 1999 and 2007)...although with Murphy it's even more annoying cause he was only at that level for a couple months with us then left and got to that level in Washington.

[NJDevs4978]

Looks like Nimmo got sent down and Conforto's back.  And also Cespedes said he thinks it'll be better if he plays LF the rest of the season.  It'll be interesting to see how they handle this but Conforto was supposedly playing some RF in AAA.  Which basically leaves you with a de facto Grandy/Lagares platoon in CF if we assume Conforto in right and Cespedes in left although we know it'll be more like a Conforto/Lagares platoon in terms of playing time - again.

Edited July 17, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Happy as hell for deGrom...the guy is just so easy to root for...minimal drama with him.  Hard to be much better than he's been in his last four starts:  29 IP, 17 H, 3 ER (all on solo HRs), 5 BB, 27 K.  His overall season numbers are quite good now, really. 

As for the team itself...until I see them go on an extended run, I can't take them all that seriously anymore, as far as being a serious contender goes...that sounds crazy considering that they're only 7 games back for best record in the NL, and that all of the NL teams in the hunt have issues (Giants just got swept by the Padres, and now have to go to Boston)...but it just doesn't seem like this year's Mets are capable of sustaining anything except an ability to keep teasing their fans with the promise of being better than they really are.  They're 34-35 in their last 69 games.  I don't see anything that would leave me to believe that it will get much better than that anytime soon.  I still think they can pull off 90 wins (though they'd have to go 41-30 to do it), but it's feeling more and more like the current roster isn't capable of reaching that total.  And like so many Met teams before this one, they have a penchant for coming up small in too many spots, and not just with the constant failures to get runs home...losing 6 out of 7 against the Nats was too damned costly. 

Anyway, I hope they prove me wrong and I wind up eating multiple plates of crow, but right now I think they get in as a wild-card at best...it helps that there's only really five teams in the WC mix, and none of them are really shredding it...even treading water at .500-ish ball for another month will probably keep the Mets within striking distance of a WC berth.  I've dialed down my expectations for this club significantly.  Great example:  even if the Mets manage to win all three of these road series to the tune of a 6-3 or even 7-2 record, is it going to surprise anyone if they then go home and go 3-6 or 4-5?  Or if there yet more elbow/arm issues with Matz and Syndergaard?  Of course not.

If anyone's looking for silver linings...I guess the Nats' pen throwing a lot of innings yesterday AND losing the game somehow qualifies.  Niese actually picked up the win with three scoreless innings of relief...and just to illustrate how iffy a statistic wins are for pitchers, Niese now has 8 wins to deGrom's 6.  Curious to see what happens with Niese, if another team actually wants him.  He might be one of those guys who gets dealt at the second (waiver) deadline...who would want to claim him?     

As much as I can't champion Wilmer Flores (just not a fan), I feel for the guy.  Two DNPs in a row and clearly not going to an everyday player again this season unless someone slumps or goes down with an injury...after putting some up nice (though misleading) numbers for about 5 weeks.  The irony of this of course is that, in Reyes' very small sample as a Met, he's kind of doing the things we wouldn't expect...putting up power numbers, but not getting on base.  Can't make too much out of that, in that Reyes could have a couple of big days and suddenly the BA and OB% look excellent.  Just has to be a weird place for Wilmer...and with Reyes being injury-prone, it's not like Sandy can just deal Wilmer away...then suddenly Eric Campbell, Ty Kelly and the rest of the AAA trash heap becomes relevant yet again.  The Mets need Wilmer for depth...even with his obvious warts and limitations. 

----------------------------------

Rafael Montero with 6 IP of 2-run ball (1 ER)...for Binghamton.  Yep, Montero has been demoted to AA.  Something had to give, as Montero has just taken "staggeringly bad" to an even higher level lately.  Montero's last 8 AAA starts couldn't have been worse:  39.1 IP, 69 H, 46 ER, 9 HR, 20 BB, 29 K, 2.26 WHIP. 

Amed Rosario goes 3-for-11 over the weekend with 4 BB and 3 RS...almost a slump for him, considering how he's torn up AA pitching from the moment he arrived there.  Now slashing .405/.471/.568 with Binghamton.  Dominic Smith has been hot for a while now too:  he was slashing a very meh-ish .259/.317/.383 on June 27.  He's since gone .423/.500/.745 (16 games).  He has an 8 BB-to-7 K ratio...also nice to see.   

      

Edited July 18, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Matthew Bowman continues to have a nice rookie season as a Cardinal reliever.  Just the fact that he's still on the team is an impressive feat by itself (I was hoping the Cards would have to offer him back to the Mets, mostly for organizational depth), but he's done a good job to boot.  It's not all roses:  hitters have managed a .229 BABIP off him, which is plenty low, and likely not going to stay there...and Bowman was never a guy who kept hit totals down much in AA or AAA...which means Bowman's long-term major-league success is iffy at this point.  But after a rough season in the PCL, he deserves some kudos for making the most of his chance, even if it some it is luck-based.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Joe fvcking Torre...lol:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/17091239/joe-torre-tells-major-league-baseball-managers-managers-arguing-balls-strikes-stop

OK, let's forget that if not for the Yankee$, Torre never would've become a MLB exec.  Sure, he was a part of the Yankee success, but he never comes close to achieving a fraction of that success anywhere else.  Right place, right time. 

Hey Joe, how about, just fvcking ONCE, MLB actually holds its arrogant, confrontational, beyond smug umpires accountable for THEIR actions.  Did it ever occur to your ugly mug that the reason managers argue balls and strikes has to do with the simple fact that too many MLB umps do an absolutely TERRIBLE job actually calling balls and strikes?  That umps all over the field are blowing even easy calls?  Managers aren't stupid...they know what will happen when they argue balls and strikes.  That should go to show you how frustrated many of them are at the lack of consistency with the calls.

Umpiring is pretty god-awful these days.  Hey Joe, as much as you were often on autopilot as the Yankee manager, as you didn't need to think all that hard with the talent$ you constantly were supplied with, you can't go on autopilot here.  Instead of addressing the result (managers arguing more and more), how about addressing the cause:  that your umpiring not only sucks, but that the ones responsible clearly think they're untouchable and can do whatever the fvck they want, with no retribution from the league.  Thanks to your actions, that will now only get worse.  Just like TC...in over your friggin' head.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

There's a prevalance of guys getting thrown out of games?  Geez what would Joe have said if Earl Weaver and Billy Martin were still roaming around dugouts?

If you don't want managers arguing with umpires then make all umpires have a uniform strike zone and stick to it.  Or go to computers.  Otherwise you're going to get arguments when something's left up to interpretation, you could shut every computer and smartphone off in the park, managers are still gonna argue balls and strikes.  What's he gonna do, suspend someone for arguing balls and strikes with an ump?  Has he become that much of a stooge for management?

Edited July 18, 2016 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Torre pre Yankees (which is what he should be judged on primarily) wasn't a bad manager. Kind of middling. Some ups and downs. Basically fell ass backwards into a perfect situation with the Yankees and didn't screw it up. But I don't and have never seen him as this perfect "Saint Joe" where he's this almighty trusted revered baseball figure. He completely bungled the Utley situation last year and at 76, frankly I don't think he's up to this position

Balls and strikes will always be argued. Sometimes it's done just to fire up a dead dugout, or sometimes the guy behind the plate is just so inept that he needs to hear it. And I'm sorry...how can clowns like Angel Hernandez, Joe West, and CB Bucknor still be employed? Bucknor and Hernandez seem like they miss calls deliberately to get back at people and settle scores...they want to antagonize teams, players, fans and managers.

The best umpires are like the best offensive linemen. You don't hear their names often. I mean I knew of Jim Joyce but the first time he ever made news was a few years ago when he blew that perfect game. And people were astounded that he could possibly miss a call because he was so respected for being low key and accurate.

That's what the MLB has to strive for in the future, fit, eagle eyed inconspicuous umps with long fuses.

Edited July 18, 2016 by '7'

['7']

Once again, very worried about the Cubs series. I know they have a bloodlust for revenge against us (8 straight wins for us vs. them) and to be honest...the Mets in their current state probably have no business beating a team the caliber of the Cubs 8 consecutive games. I just don't want them to wake up and smack us upside the head.

We have Thor tonight, so hopefully he can dominate.

I believe Duda has restarted baseball activities. Been a forgotten man of late as his recovery has been slow (a Met recovering slowly from an injury?! nah, couldn't be) but that job shouldn't be handed to him on a silver platter when he returns either. I haven't seen any prospective return date but...I'd guess the Yankees series probably.

['7']

5 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Joe fvcking Torre...lol:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/17091239/joe-torre-tells-major-league-baseball-managers-managers-arguing-balls-strikes-stop

OK, let's forget that if not for the Yankee$, Torre never would've become a MLB exec.  Sure, he was a part of the Yankee success, but he never comes close to achieving a fraction of that success anywhere else.  Right place, right time. 

Hey Joe, how about, just fvcking ONCE, MLB actually holds its arrogant, confrontational, beyond smug umpires accountable for THEIR actions.  Did it ever occur to your ugly mug that the reason managers argue balls and strikes has to do with the simple fact that too many MLB umps do an absolutely TERRIBLE job actually calling balls and strikes?  That umps all over the field are blowing even easy calls?  Managers aren't stupid...they know what will happen when they argue balls and strikes.  That should go to show you how frustrated many of them are at the lack of consistency with the calls.

Umpiring is pretty god-awful these days.  Hey Joe, as much as you were often on autopilot as the Yankee manager, as you didn't need to think all that hard with the talent$ you constantly were supplied with, you can't go on autopilot here.  Instead of addressing the result (managers arguing more and more), how about addressing the cause:  that your umpiring not only sucks, but that the ones responsible clearly think they're untouchable and can do whatever the fvck they want, with no retribution from the league.  Thanks to your actions, that will now only get worse.  Just like TC...in over your friggin' head.

And let's look at the age and fitness level of some of these guys. Joe West is 63 and 300 lbs. When he's standing out there in 99 degrees in Atlanta in the scorching sunlight...will his performance suffer? Damn well it will.

Cederstrom is another one that has to be in his 60's and has trouble moving around out there

['7']

10 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Happy as hell for deGrom...the guy is just so easy to root for...minimal drama with him.  Hard to be much better than he's been in his last four starts:  29 IP, 17 H, 3 ER (all on solo HRs), 5 BB, 27 K.  His overall season numbers are quite good now, really. 

As for the team itself...until I see them go on an extended run, I can't take them all that seriously anymore, as far as being a serious contender goes...that sounds crazy considering that they're only 7 games back for best record in the NL, and that all of the NL teams in the hunt have issues (Giants just got swept by the Padres, and now have to go to Boston)...but it just doesn't seem like this year's Mets are capable of sustaining anything except an ability to keep teasing their fans with the promise of being better than they really are.  They're 34-35 in their last 69 games.  I don't see anything that would leave me to believe that it will get much better than that anytime soon.  I still think they can pull off 90 wins (though they'd have to go 41-30 to do it), but it's feeling more and more like the current roster isn't capable of reaching that total.  And like so many Met teams before this one, they have a penchant for coming up small in too many spots, and not just with the constant failures to get runs home...losing 6 out of 7 against the Nats was too damned costly. 

Anyway, I hope they prove me wrong and I wind up eating multiple plates of crow, but right now I think they get in as a wild-card at best...it helps that there's only really five teams in the WC mix, and none of them are really shredding it...even treading water at .500-ish ball for another month will probably keep the Mets within striking distance of a WC berth.  I've dialed down my expectations for this club significantly.  Great example:  even if the Mets manage to win all three of these road series to the tune of a 6-3 or even 7-2 record, is it going to surprise anyone if they then go home and go 3-6 or 4-5?  Or if there yet more elbow/arm issues with Matz and Syndergaard?  Of course not.

If anyone's looking for silver linings...I guess the Nats' pen throwing a lot of innings yesterday AND losing the game somehow qualifies.  Niese actually picked up the win with three scoreless innings of relief...and just to illustrate how iffy a statistic wins are for pitchers, Niese now has 8 wins to deGrom's 6.  Curious to see what happens with Niese, if another team actually wants him.  He might be one of those guys who gets dealt at the second (waiver) deadline...who would want to claim him?     

As much as I can't champion Wilmer Flores (just not a fan), I feel for the guy.  Two DNPs in a row and clearly not going to an everyday player again this season unless someone slumps or goes down with an injury...after putting some up nice (though misleading) numbers for about 5 weeks.  The irony of this of course is that, in Reyes' very small sample as a Met, he's kind of doing the things we wouldn't expect...putting up power numbers, but not getting on base.  Can't make too much out of that, in that Reyes could have a couple of big days and suddenly the BA and OB% look excellent.  Just has to be a weird place for Wilmer...and with Reyes being injury-prone, it's not like Sandy can just deal Wilmer away...then suddenly Eric Campbell, Ty Kelly and the rest of the AAA trash heap becomes relevant yet again.  The Mets need Wilmer for depth...even with his obvious warts and limitations. 

----------------------------------

Rafael Montero with 6 IP of 2-run ball (1 ER)...for Binghamton.  Yep, Montero has been demoted to AA.  Something had to give, as Montero has just taken "staggeringly bad" to an even higher level lately.  Montero's last 8 AAA starts couldn't have been worse:  39.1 IP, 69 H, 46 ER, 9 HR, 20 BB, 29 K, 2.26 WHIP. 

Amed Rosario goes 3-for-11 over the weekend with 4 BB and 3 RS...almost a slump for him, considering how he's torn up AA pitching from the moment he arrived there.  Now slashing .405/.471/.568 with Binghamton.  Dominic Smith has been hot for a while now too:  he was slashing a very meh-ish .259/.317/.383 on June 27.  He's since gone .423/.500/.745 (16 games).  He has an 8 BB-to-7 K ratio...also nice to see.   

      

The fact that Murphy hit that HR to tie it just grinds my gears. I mean how can somebody get this good, at 31? I know a few guys off the top of my head that really hit their stride at that age...Ortiz, Jose Bautista (and with Ortiz he definitely had some...help) but those guys were always known for having amazing raw talent but took a while to put it together.

Flores unfortunately is right were he has to be, a nice little reserve that we can plug into a bunch of places if need be and hope he gets hot if we ever have to roll with him.

Regarding Reyes and his power numbers, that may be a bit of a Long effect (he's also the guy who created this monster with Murph) Reyes is still working his way back into form, and I would expect for him to eventually round into a .260 hitter...but I never EVER want to see him up in a big spot. He's just got too much of that old Mets unclutch 2006-2008 funk on him.

I just love deGrom. So much worry about him being not quite right with his velocity down earlier this year, but he's turned right back into a true ace. deGrom is also from DeLand, Florida, hometown of Chipper Jones. DeLand Florida owed us bigtime. heh

I would focus on a reliever and a starter at the deadline. Wheeler is coming back but I think Matz is a timebomb and won't make it. I could see them making a play for Ervin Santana or Matt Moore.

Edited July 18, 2016 by '7'