New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

['7']

enough with the fvcking double plays already!

Last 3 weeks they must lead all of baseball. 

[NJDevs4978]

And Flores with a two-run jack lol...shame he didn't get hot when he actually was playing

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Mets with their obligatory, cosmetic, hey-at-least-we-didn't-get-shutout HR.  Whoopee.

[capo]

Time to pull the plug on TC. They don't have the talent to bring anything in prospect wise that they can spare. The only thing left is to gut the manager and the staff. I'm all for bringing in Wally and Frankie V. However, I don't think SA will ever give Backman a shot. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

It's going to take a serious losing streak for TC's job to be in jeopardy.  As long as they keep hovering around 6-8 games over .500, he and his coaching staff probably get to stick around.

I think Backman is firmly entrenched as the AAA manager in this organization.  I don't think he'll ever be on Sandy's radar as a possible successor to the Village Idiot.

It's funny with Wally...I have no idea how he'd mesh with a roster of major-leaguers.  I could see it being a disaster with him...but there's a part of me that really wants to see him get a shot.  Just doesn't seem like he's ever going to get one.

[NJDevs4978]

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's going to take a serious losing streak for TC's job to be in jeopardy.  As long as they keep hovering around 6-8 games over .500, he and his coaching staff probably get to stick around.

I think Backman is firmly entrenched as the AAA manager in this organization.  I don't think he'll ever be on Sandy's radar as a possible successor to the Village Idiot.

It's funny with Wally...I have no idea how he'd mesh with a roster of major-leaguers.  I could see it being a disaster with him...but there's a part of me that really wants to see him get a shot.  Just doesn't seem like he's ever going to get one.

I kind of think Backman's blackballed from getting ANY major league job at this point after what happened with Arizona and his various skeletons.  AAA with the Mets is probably the best he does anywhere.  But yeah if he ever got a ML job I definitely see him being too unstable to succeed in front of the world.

You would think a guy like Bud Black is Sandy's first call if he was ever going to replace the manager.  But considering how little regard Sandy holds field managers anyway it doesn't seem like he actually gives a fig who's in the dugout.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

10 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I kind of think Backman's blackballed from getting ANY major league job at this point after what happened with Arizona and his various skeletons.  AAA with the Mets is probably the best he does anywhere.  But yeah if he ever got a ML job I definitely see him being too unstable to succeed in front of the world.

You would think a guy like Bud Black is Sandy's first call if he was ever going to replace the manager.  But considering how little regard Sandy holds field managers anyway it doesn't seem like he actually gives a fig who's in the dugout.

Yeah, when I said that I wouldn't mind seeing Backman get a shot...I definitely wasn't saying it should be here.  I just think it's too iffy and could really blow up big-time. 

Sandy's funny...he doesn't seem to think much of Terry, but he keeps him around, and now a guy Sandy DID like is out there.  But like I said, guess it's going to take a big losing streak for him to consider letting TC & Co go.

Rafael Montero's year just keeps getting worse...the former control artist has now walked 8 hitters in his 11.1 IP for Binghamton, after walking 6 last night...and for good measure, he also plunked someone.  One of the biggest disappointments of 2016 within the organization.  And yet another reason why Sandy's probably only going to be able to acquire less-desirables and question marks at the deadline(s). 

And while the hits keep comin'...it's time for the Mets to realize that Gavin Cecchini can't fvcking field at SS.  He now has 28 errors in 66 games played at short this season.  He's now made 96 errors in 373 career minor-league games.  He's clearly not the future at short here with Rosario around...but maybe the Mets can begin to explore playing him somewhere else?  Not sure where (as long as Herrera is at 2B, no room for Cecchini there), but his fielding seems to be getting worse.  The guy is basically making an error every 11 chances this season...that's brutal. 

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Boomer and Carton ripping on TC this morning...for putting out the Forfeit Lineup to give guys rest just six games after the All-Star Break (despite today being an off-day), for not challenging the Loney play at the plate, and for talking about how great and tough Jose Fernandez is (almost conceding defeat right off the bat).  

Should Terry being a dope come as any big surprise anymore?  Stupid is as stupid does.

[thecoffeecake]

19 hours ago, '7' said:

That was done in  2014. It is thoroughly inapplicable now to what's actually going on, as they are outdrawing the Yankees at the gate and pulling in better TV ratings than the Yankees. 

Do you remember the 80's when there used to be a regular 30k Mets fans at the Vet? Tell me when the A's put 30k of their fans anywhere in the bay area.

I'm watching those highlights now. The crowd is pretty much louder when the Mets score than when the Phillies score. It also seems like the Mets fans pretty much bought up the entirety of the seats down the left field line right now

April 2014, we've had an absolute earth-change since then. That poll was taken at a pretty low point. But the thing about the Mets is that it doesn't take much to fire up the masses. The Mets didn't even win a World Series, they have had thus far a 1 year return to relevancy, and already they've trumped the Yankees. The best assessment I can make about our fan base is that when it is dormant it is quiet, when it is awakened it is one hell of a sleeping giant. And you greatly greatly underestimate the Mets diaspora as aw whole, especially when you see the large amount of Mets fans that show up in Florida, DC, and Atlanta. 

Any sports bar in Florida regularly plays Mets, Sox and Yankees games along with Rays and Marlins (they're obligated) No other team gets that billings. You see the same thing in Los Angeles.

Yea, that's fair, there are a ton of Mets fans in places around the country, but it's because the New York diaspora is so big. I mentioned that the Mets don't have many fans without New York (or New Jersey or Connecticut) connections. There are so many New York transplants in those areas. The Yankees are a team that appeals to the casual fans across the country that don't have a team in their market (or self respect). The Mets don't do that. Any Mets fans in the Philly metro have New York/New Jersey connections, whether they moved down or their parents were from there. The Yankees, on the other hand, will get random fans everywhere who may have no loyalty whatsoever to New York. And I think that's a positive of the Mets fan base. The Mets are a New York team, the Yankees are a national team. And it's the same with the Phillies. Philadelphia sports are despised so much, no one outside of the Philly area likes Philly teams.

The fact that this was done in 2014 doesn't change much. It is based on Facebook likes. The casual fans who are switching back and forth between the two teams based on which one is better probably isn't changing which team they like on Facebook every other year. And the fluctuation in crowds and ratings are an indication that one fan base is turning out more of their fans, and the other is having trouble mobilizing their fan base. I will give you that it would look slightly better in the Mets favor, but there still wouldn't be a single zip code going majority Mets. Those kinds of swings don't happen in two years. The best the Mets did in this study was about 30%. And the point remains that they don't register in the Philly metro at all.

I was born in the early 90's so no, I don't remember the Vet in the 80's. I don't buy that off-hand, but I suppose I have no evidence one way or another.

Without looking up exactly what the Bay area's population is, I can tell you certainly it is much much lower than New York. You can't compare raw numbers. But, the A's were the first Bay area team to draw 2 million fans back in the 80's. I think if the A's had a ballpark, they'd be mirror images. The White Sox and the Angels, unlike the Mets and A's, have areas where they are dominate.

I guess we're both looking for something different in these highlights. Behind the plate I counted 10-1 Phillies fans to Mets fans in one highlight (counting people only wearing gear from each team and not speculating), 7 or 8 to 1 behind 1st base, and a few shots to right field showed a sea of red (even heavier than I expected, and keep in mind Phillies fans wear blue, too). To be fair, I didn't count behind third base, which is where a lot of away fans sit (but it seemed about a quarter Mets fans, which is a lot) and I didn't see any highlights of left field, so I have to take your word for now. I'm not saying Mets fans don't show up in heavy numbers, but to say there are more or even half is objectively wrong.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Strasburg down 6-1 to the Dodgers and looking at his first loss of the season.

 

Maddening stat time: 

Mets against the Nats:  4-9   Against everyone else:  46-35

Nats against the Mets:  9-4   Against everyone else:  48-34 (quite possibly 48-35 by the end of their game today)

So yep, came down to head-to-head, and the Mets have come up too damned small against the Nats (if the Mets are good at any one thing, it's coming small in a lot of situations).  And it won't surprise me if the record against everyone else for both teams continues to progress at about the same rate (somewhere around .570-.580).  Basically means the Mets will probably have to win at least 5 of the 6 games remaining between the two clubs, all of which are not played until September.  And they'd better start cleaning up more against lower teams.  What they've managed against the Braves and Phillies so far simply isn't acceptable. 

Still can't take this team seriously until they put together a run. 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Dodgers using 8 pitchers today (7 over the last 5 innings) to get the win.  Whatever it takes I guess...

So basically the Nationals are one game better than the Mets against the rest of the league, and even in the loss column.  Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.  Still surprised how lopsided the head-to-head record between these two teams has been. 

[NJDevs4978]

8 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Strasburg down 6-1 to the Dodgers and looking at his first loss of the season.

 

Maddening stat time: 

Mets against the Nats:  4-9   Against everyone else:  46-35

Nats against the Mets:  9-4   Against everyone else:  48-34 (quite possibly 48-35 by the end of their game today)

So yep, came down to head-to-head, and the Mets have come up too damned small against the Nats (if the Mets are good at any one thing, it's coming small in a lot of situations).  And it won't surprise me if the record against everyone else for both teams continues to progress at about the same rate (somewhere around .570-.580).  Basically means the Mets will probably have to win at least 5 of the 6 games remaining between the two clubs, all of which are not played until September.  And they'd better start cleaning up more against lower teams.  What they've managed against the Braves and Phillies so far simply isn't acceptable. 

Still can't take this team seriously until they put together a run. 

That's the thing, you wouldn't think they were cleaning up against the other teams because of the struggles they've had with the Braves and Phillies.  The 5-2 against the Cubs actually makes it a lot better than it is otherwise.  Heck they gained three games because of the Cubs since the Nats went 2-5 against them.

[NJDevs4978]

lol and just when you thought Loney's 2-run HR was enough insurance for even the high wire act of Familia here we go (with an assist from Ces).

Well at least they hung on for a big win to start this six-game stretch of Marlins/Cardinals that'll tell a lot about this team before the trade deadline.  Verrett's been hanging in there since he started getting a regular turn, to his credit Reyes had a good game too.

Edited July 23, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Would love for Familia to cool it with the John Franco-type saves.  He's kind of like the guy who has a 10-game hitting streak but is hitting .260 or so with damned near no walks during that time.  But at least he's not actually BLOWING saves. 

Reyes needed a game like this...it's getting to the point where he's got to give TC a reason to keep putting him in the lineup...of course, as we've seen, some guys get VERY long leashes here.  Tonight's performance probably just bought Reyes at least five more games, regardless of the results.  

At least Verrett is turning in competitive starts.  So hard to know what you're getting from him.  But so far so good right now.  There really isn't anyone else that wouldn't be a serious question mark (from within) if Verrett imploded in these starts and needed to be replaced.  

Edited July 23, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Another Met starter turning in another disappointing performance when his team needs him.  Yes, deGrom had been terrific lately.  Still, this has been a recurring problem in 2016.  Warthen's gotta go.

And by all means Terry, just leave him in.  He couldn't even get the opposing pitcher out tonight.  

Edited July 24, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

No real relevance but I  often wonder if GMs ever throw around big name one for one swaps like the napkin Dimaggio for Williams swap that never was. I was day dreaming about this as Fernandez was cutting the Mets up once again. Like,  Harvey for Fernandez after this past season. Harvey seems like he'd be a big south beach guy. Too bad we couldn't have moved Harvey when we had the chance... not like it would have been for a pitcher anyway.  Right now, I don't see a way to make this team better. They're going to have to fight through it together and scrape it out because they are what they are.

Edited July 24, 2016 by capo

[NJDevs4978]

Huge win today, not only for it keeping the Mets in touching distance of a playoff spot but for the fact Matz actually pitched much better than he had recently.

And I did watch the HOF induction for Mike, he definitely got emotional at times - it was a nice half-hour speech.  It's almost incomprehensible his post-9/11 HR actually got put on his HOF plaque.  Looking forward to Saturday for sure, I'll be at that game so it better not rain then

['7']

That post 9/11 home run was really something else. It really helped establish a little bit of normalcy around here, even though there were a ton of difficult days to come. 

That Mets team was pretty resilient, recovered from a bad and unlucky WS loss to the Yankees to make a very impressive late season run at Atlanta. They were 62-71 on Aug 29. 10.5 out. Buried. They then go 15-2 to pull within 3.5. Two wins over Atlanta. Then that horrible Sept 23rd game where a win would put us 2.5 out. Mets up 4-1 in the 9th. Benitez gives up a 2 out 2 run HR to Brian Jordan to make it 4-3. Then a  2 out walk walk...then a Chipper Jones base hit. Then a BJ Surhoff base hit to tie it. Can't believe Bobby V gave him so much rope. Franco has not pitched in that game and he only brought Franco in after Atlanta tied it. Naturally Brian Jordan hits a solo shot in the top of the 11th to win it.

Mets recovered to sweep Montreal, but then went down to Atlanta needing a miracle. They lost the first game, but held a 5-1 lead in the bottom of the 9th in the second game. Benitez and Franco team up to blow it, with the deciding blow a 0-2 grand slam to Brian Jordan

['7']

We never gave Piazza the help he needed in the lineup. In 1999 Ventura was spectacular but totally busted after that, Todd Zeile was so-so in 2000, terrible in 2001. Zeile was great in the NLCS and WS for us though. Edgardo Alfonzo went from potential future Mets number retiring candidate in 2000 to streaky meh player. Mo Vaughn was a bust. Roberto Alomar was a bust.

[nmigliore]

The rich get richer - Cubs acquired Chapman from the Yankees. 

Kristie Ackert of the NY Daily News says the Mets are interested in Jonathan Lucroy and a couple Brewers relievers. Sounds like the Mets would need to part with d'Arnaud and a top prospect, probably Amed Rosario, to stay in the conversations for Lucroy.

[nmigliore]

Considering our position, I'd look to upgrade the bullpen and find a better 5th starter - round out the rough edges as opposed to making a big splash. Although I will say in Lucroy's defense that he's under contract for 2017 as well, so he's not a rental.

Kristie's article mentions Jeremy Jeffres and Will Smith of the Brewers but I like Tyler Thornburg a lot more. Relievers are going to cost a premium in this market and Thornburg is much less heralded name who may actually be better than either of the other two at this point. 

Verrett needs to go. I know he's been kind of okay at times, but he's walked 21 versus 26 strikeouts as a starter this year and is homer-prone. Jeremy Hellickson is a good fit but he's sadly one of the top arms publicly available and there's quite a few contenders looking into rotation help. The Mets may have to get a bit creative to find help, like checking in on some of the Rays' arms (sans Archer).

The Yankees are also shopping Ivan Nova. He's certainly not going to excite anyone, but a switch to an easier home park and league may allow him to pitch like a league average starter. As a rental with an ERA in the mid-4's, I can't imagine he'd cost much.

Edited July 25, 2016 by nmigliore

['7']

I would do d'Arnaud + Rosario for Lucroy. Lucroy would immediately be our best pure hitter and he catches. If we can resign him we can move him out from behind the plate and get more effective years from him

d'Arnaud can't stay healthy. Nor is he all that great a bat. This would be a big immediate upgrade.

[capo]

If Rosario goes we literally have nothing left but fringe at best prospects. Rosario could be a fringe prospect as well... but, I think I'm with you. We might be able to grab one of the relievers also in that deal.

The Mets have to go for it. They need to be buyers all the way around.

Chris Sale is being dangled out there as well. deGrom for Sale would be tempting. Would deGrom be enough? Too bad Harvey didn't get dealt over the winter...

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Why should the Mets trade deGrom (still under team control and very cheap for what he brings) for a considerably more expensive Sale?  

I'd love for the Mets to bring in Lucroy, but my issue with Rosario going in the deal is that the farm thins out even more...which means Sandy would have to become the kind of GM that's truly all-in.  That means being willing to overspend on key FAs and being willing to outbid other teams to get your guy.  And that is so not how the Mets operate.  And we know Sandy's track record with bargain-type signings here.  I'd rather that the Mets have some pieces coming from within in the seasons to come.

All this being said...if the asking price for Lucroy is d'Arnaud and Rosario, that makes the Mets a better team in 2016 and probably 2017 too.  So it hurts to part with Rosario, but gotta give to get, and the catching position is a weakness in this team.  Probably have to make the deal.

[capo]

Only reason I'd trade deGrom is due injury history and he's a year older than Sale.