nmigliore Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 At least there's a small chance this falls through. Probably Nimmo related, re: the medicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Just now, '7' said: If they want Herrera...give 'em Herrera. Honestly let the kid go somewhere he can play. Nobody knows if he was really in our long term plans anyway and it is really perplexing how he became such a buried/forgotten man. d'Arnaud...all we know is he can't throw, the pitchers hate throwing to him, he gets hurt all the time. He's wildly inconsistent with the bat, he's not even a kid anymore. Lucroy + Bruce really helps this offense a lot. It changes everything. And if these two are not enough to make a run this year, then I'm all for trading one or the other, or both, either this winter or sometime next year to recoup prospects. Both are movable assets Herrera isn't forgotten...he's still very young, and would be coming into 2017 with a job to lose (if the Mets are still high on him, they let Walker...well, walk). He didn't show enough in previous jaunts to be handed the job in 2016. But a 23-year-old, inexpensive Herrera will get every last shot to be the man in 2017...if he's still here. I don't think he's slated for another season of AAA ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 21 minutes ago, nmigliore said: re: Bruce's WAR - it's low this season because of the defense. Both UZR and DRS say he's been more than 1 full win below average (in simpler terms - with average defense in RF this year, his WAR would be about 1 win higher right now). We'll see who else is part of this deal but I don't like the fit at all. I mean really, what's the outfield configuration now? There's no combo of Bruce/Cespedes/Grandy that's going to look pretty out there; that's probably the worst defensive outfield in the Majors by a mile. I guess Bruce is insurance for when Cespedes walks this winter, but even then, I don't like this fit. For our sake, we better hope for 2 things: 1) Bruce's 2016 defensive metrics are a blip and he's more of an average or slightly below average defender, and 2) the bounceback at the plate is real. Bruce is a sub-replacement level player if he hits like he did in 2014 and 2015, regardless of where his defense goes. Say you put Bruce on a team like the Mets, who are 7 runs behind the Cubs for giving up the fewest runs in baseball. The Reds on the flipside have the worst pitching staff in baseball. Bruce probably sees a lot of balls come his way. On the Mets Bruce will have fewer opportunities to butcher the ball because of the great pitching. We will mostly be getting the best out of Bruce (his hitting) and his weakest aspect (his fielding) will not be exposed as often. So that's why I don't think his Reds WAR is all that applicable to what he may be as a Met. 2 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said: Hold on, apparently there's a hold up in the Bruce trade over WAIT FOR IT...medical issues Of course, wouldn't be the Mets if this weren't happening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Well there's definitely something to "hiding" bad defenders when you have a pitching staff that strikes a lot of hitters out which the Mets certainly do (the staff ranks 5th in MLB in K% while the Reds sit at 28th). The Mets have also been okay at keeping the ball out of the air (21st in flyball rate). It's pretty obvious the Mets don't care about defense but it's still an odd fit in that he's yet another left-handed hitting corner outfielder. There has to be a point where defense and organizational fit have to mean something. I've never been high on Nimmo, but hopefully the other guys in the deal aren't Lindsay and/or Szapucki. Edited August 1, 2016 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 12 minutes ago, nmigliore said: Well there's definitely something to "hiding" bad defenders when you have a pitching staff that strikes a lot of hitters out which the Mets certainly do (the staff ranks 5th in MLB in K% while the Reds sit at 28th). The Mets have also been okay at keeping the ball out of the air (21st in flyball rate). It's pretty obvious the Mets don't care about defense but it's still an odd fit in that he's yet another left-handed hitting corner outfielder. There has to be a point where defense and organizational fit have to mean something. I've never been high on Nimmo, but hopefully the other guys in the deal aren't Lindsay and/or Szapucki. Re: the bolded...it does mean something to pitchers, mentally. Gooden made that clear in his memoir, that part of the reason he started giving up more hits (not the ONLY reason of course) was that a lot of balls that would be playable on other teams weren't with his fielders. It's definitely not the best-built team by a longshot. The staff is what keeps the rest relevant. Bruce may be DOA...looks like one of the minor-leaguers (not Nimmo) is out: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Beltran to the Rangers. Another chance for him to get that ring. At least he fulfilled his lifelong dream of playing for the Yankees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Just now, '7' said: Beltran to the Rangers. Another chance for him to get that ring. At least he fulfilled his lifelong dream of playing for the Yankees As much as I'm not a big Beltran guy (seems like he's a lock to get into the H-O-F now though, as he's piled up all of the right numbers), I'll say this much for him: that's the second time he maxed out his trade value for a NY team in a walk year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Sounds like the deal would be Bruce for Nimmo, Max Wottell, and Chris Flexen. Much easier to stomach if those are the latter 2 pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Sounds like it was Bruce or Bust today: Not really a great deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well hopefully we can add a relief pitcher too Lucroy...I get the feeling the Brewers got stupid with their return. I could see them wanting Rosario AND Smith just to turn the screws to us. Also seems like they had no interest in d'Arnaud anymore since they just got Susac for Will Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Oh man...Herrera to Reds...this deal looks a LOT worse now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Herrera eh? Herrera couldnt be the guy we subbed in for the guy who had medical concerns Was Nimmo ever part of this deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Just now, '7' said: Herrera eh? Herrera couldnt be the guy we subbed in for the guy who had medical concerns Was Nimmo ever part of this deal? Believe it or not...I think the deal is Herrera, Nimmo + one more minor leaguer. Terrible if it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Believe it or not...I think the deal is Herrera, Nimmo + one more minor leaguer. Terrible if it is. That is not a good deal unless we are getting some sort of decent prospect in return. Honestly I think what happened is the Reds balked at the last minute, this whole "injury concern" thing was BS. They pulled Bruce off the table, asked for more, and Sandy gave in. He should've held firm. I really don't like losing both Nimmo and Herrera. Edited August 1, 2016 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Ugh, hate that Herrera was swapped in for Nimmo (or worse, packaged with him). Terrible. Edited August 1, 2016 by nmigliore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Oh man...Herrera to Reds...this deal looks a LOT worse now... Oy vey, if we were dealing Dilson it should have been for Lucroy Makes Sandy look silly now for the whole 'we're letting the 2016 NL MVP go cause we have Dilson Herrera!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Adam RubinESPN Staff Writer Multiple reports says Dilson Herrera is going to the Reds. Brandon Nimmo hanging out with Mets hitting coaches in cage. No indication he's been dealt.ShareMLB 4m Also It's official Lucroy to Texas. Edited August 1, 2016 by '7' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Rangers getting Lucroy with Joey Gallo as the centerpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 1 minute ago, '7' said: That is not a good deal unless we are getting some sort of decent prospect in return. Honestly I think what happened is the Reds balked at the last minute, this whole "injury concern" thing was BS. They pulled Bruce off the table, asked for more, and Sandy gave in. Sounds like Nimmo is out of the deal, but it's still bad. Sandy looked like a real amateur this time around...and desperate to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Sounds like Nimmo is out of the deal, but it's still bad. Sandy looked like a real amateur this time around...and desperate to boot. Yeah I would have told the Reds to go scratch the minute they started getting cold feet again. But I guess it's inevitable a 68-year old GM's gonna get desperate to win now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 If only we were quicker to Lucroy, maybe we could've gotten him in a d'Arnaud package before the Brewers got Susac though perhaps the Brewers never liked d'Arnaud to begin with. But they certainly had no use for him at all with Susac in the mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Just now, NJDevs4978 said: Yeah I would have told the Reds to go scratch the minute they started getting cold feet again. But I guess it's inevitable a 68-year old GM's gonna get desperate to win now. This is just an awful deal. Even if you're kinda sorta on Herrera, like I am...damn, this is so bad. Bruce better fvcking hit the tar out of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmigliore Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 This trade, for me, would've been more palatable if that supposed Nimmo/Wottell/Flexen package was the deal. Even straight up Herrera isn't worth giving up for Bruce and I'm sure there's another piece involved from us. Argh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 1 minute ago, NJDevs4978 said: Yeah I would have told the Reds to go scratch the minute they started getting cold feet again. But I guess it's inevitable a 68-year old GM's gonna get desperate to win now. Reds and the Brewers are both clowns with the way they behaved. Brewers playing footsie with the Mets for Lucroy for days upon days, flip him to Cleveland, jerk the Mets chain again, then turn around and flip him to Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, nmigliore said: This trade, for me, would've been more palatable if that supposed Nimmo/Wottell/Flexen package was the deal. Even straight up Herrera isn't worth giving up for Bruce and I'm sure there's another piece involved from us. Argh. It's Dilson and Wottell 2-1. And now we have a second deal per Rubin, oh boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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