New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Granderson got hot there for a while, but unfortunately, this has largely been 2014 Grandy we've been watching.  That was a big concern coming into the season, that he might revert back to that player.  I was hoping it wouldn't happen. 

Colon...always the same deal with him, in that you know he's going to have nights like this.  It's part of the package.  He hasn't had many of them, so it's impossible for me to kill him for last night.  Sure, really would've been great for him not to have a game like that, but what can you do? 

I REALLY hope Sandy shows a pulse this offseason, and jettisons TC and his band of merry men.  I don't want to hear about all of the injuries...clearly the Mets got a ton of rotten luck in that department, but TC is being fully exposed for the pure dummy that he really is, and it's becoming a constant thing.  He's not going to get any smarter, and he's not going to get any better at his job.  Said it before, but if TC is here to start next season, then it just proves to me that this franchise isn't serious about winning...and that it's just more of the same ol', same ol', Land of 1000000 Chances crap.  For fvck's sake, for ONCE hold somebody fvcking accountable!  ONCE!

And Sandy, you blew it by bringing in Bruce.  You had data that strongly suggested he could completely suck upon becoming a Met (a .160/.250/.280 slash...great stuff).  Two awful years in 2014 and 2015.  Yet another hitter who's very strikeout-prone and when he's cold, he's completely invisible.  How about this offseason Sandy, you show just the slightest amount of creativity, and stop bringing in more of the same kinds of hitters?  How many of these guys do the Mets have to have in the lineup before you realize that it doesn't work?  There's more to offense than stacking it with a bunch of low-BA boppers.    

 

['7']

2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Granderson got hot there for a while, but unfortunately, this has largely been 2014 Grandy we've been watching.  That was a big concern coming into the season, that he might revert back to that player.  I was hoping it wouldn't happen. 

Colon...always the same deal with him, in that you know he's going to have nights like this.  It's part of the package.  He hasn't had many of them, so it's impossible for me to kill him for last night.  Sure, really would've been great for him not to have a game like that, but what can you do? 

I REALLY hope Sandy shows a pulse this offseason, and jettisons TC and his band of merry men.  I don't want to hear about all of the injuries...clearly the Mets got a ton of rotten luck in that department, but TC is being fully exposed for the pure dummy that he really is, and it's becoming a constant thing.  He's not going to get any smarter, and he's not going to get any better at his job.  Said it before, but if TC is here to start next season, then it just proves to me that this franchise isn't serious about winning...and that it's just more of the same ol', same ol', Land of 1000000 Chances crap.  For fvck's sake, for ONCE hold somebody fvcking accountable!  ONCE!

And Sandy, you blew it by bringing in Bruce.  You had data that strongly suggested he could completely suck upon becoming a Met (a .160/.250/.280 slash...great stuff).  Two awful years in 2014 and 2015.  Yet another hitter who's very strikeout-prone and when he's cold, he's completely invisible.  How about this offseason Sandy, you show just the slightest amount of creativity, and stop bringing in more of the same kinds of hitters?  How many of these guys do the Mets have to have in the lineup before you realize that it doesn't work?  There's more to offense than stacking it with a bunch of low-BA boppers.    

 

I thought perhaps Bruce would be at least decent. I was not expecting a goldmine like Cespedes turned out to be but Bruce has pretty much turned into such a Met it's absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time. Maybe...just maybe getting Cespedes back in the lineup and putting him behind Bruce will lead to him seeing more fastballs...who knows. It's out last hope.

Sandy is going to ride out the stretch with Terry this year as a thank you for 2015. It really doesnt matter anymore...how inept and out of touch Terry is. I bet the majority of the team like him and even thought 1 1/2 months of Wally may do this team good, Sandy will let Collins finish things off, win 78 games, then I feel Collins will announce his retirement from baseball and Sandy will avoid a difficult firing.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

33 minutes ago, '7' said:

I thought perhaps Bruce would be at least decent. I was not expecting a goldmine like Cespedes turned out to be but Bruce has pretty much turned into such a Met it's absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time. Maybe...just maybe getting Cespedes back in the lineup and putting him behind Bruce will lead to him seeing more fastballs...who knows. It's out last hope.

Sandy is going to ride out the stretch with Terry this year as a thank you for 2015. It really doesnt matter anymore...how inept and out of touch Terry is. I bet the majority of the team like him and even thought 1 1/2 months of Wally may do this team good, Sandy will let Collins finish things off, win 78 games, then I feel Collins will announce his retirement from baseball and Sandy will avoid a difficult firing.

Sure, I don't anyone expected him to be this bad.  He'll pick it up...it's simply not possible to be that bad for too much longer...Bruce has limitations, but he's better than what he's shown so far as a Met.  I WAS worried that he'd come here and be like the 2014 and 2015 Bruce...especially without Great American Bandbox to prop him up.  I'm just amazed how little research Sandy appeared to do before making this deal...look, if you have a bandbox/homer-friendly home park, by all means, load up on power hitters.  Citi doesn't really play that way, even with the fences pulled in...this ballpark is not kind to Bruce-types.  Get some solid contact/OB%/line-drive gap hitters who aren't shift-prone.  I think the best we can hope for next season with Bruce is a 2015-type season, but if I'm throwing out a guess, I'd say we'll get something between 2014 and 2015. 

Yeah, I accepted a while ago that TC is going to get the rest of 2015 no matter what...I think Wally is just too much of a wild-card for Sandy's liking (and let's face it, NO ONE seems willing to give him a chance to manage at the major league level...it's coming up on 12 years since he was hired and fired by the Diamondbacks...so whatever Sandy isn't seeing, every other team appears to agree). 

I think what could cloud the picture is that the Mets (once it's too late) will go on a meaningless late-season run to make their W-L record more respectable (say 83-85 wins by season's end), at which point Sandy decides that if he leaves the team pretty much intact, that they can rebound in 2017.

And more and more, I think the Mets have to try to keep Neil Walker.  Yeah, he's streaky, and capable of disappearing for a while...he's hot at the moment, but I haven't forgotten his ice-cold valleys.  Yeah, he has some warts.  Yeah, you can make the argument that he's overall just a little better than the Met version of Daniel Murphy, but not by very much...better in the field and better at getting on base than Murph was here, but not as clutch.  You can also make the argument that Walker won't be as good overall in future seasons as he's been in 2016, as his current .811 OB+SLG would tie his seasonal best if it were to hold up (too early to say that it will)...it's hard to imagine he'll match this season's home run total if he stays here.  He's no star, but seriously, what are the 2nd base options?  At least you know what you're getting with him...sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal (I'd hate to go beyond 4), and he shouldn't decline much, if at all.  I can't go into 2017 crossing my fingers that Wright at third and Reyes as second (neither one of them should even be Mets at this point) will some how pan out from a production AND health standpoint.  And if Walker leaves and Sandy tries to sell me on that...fvck Sandy and the Mets then.   

Edited August 16, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

I  don't know if I'm going there with Walker over Murph. Walker has disappeared for huge stretches at a time.  Murph was pretty consistent.  Something the Mets don't have anywhere other than deGrom right now. Walker is having a career year hr wise but his doubles are way down. Murph racked up the doubles. These are rally type hits. Something these Mets know nothing about. I'll take our version of Murph all day over this version of Walker. I'm not at suprised by Murph's big year. The Mets made a mistake not bringing him back. He was the one rock in the lineup.  He had warts on the defensive side but he could also make you a big play there as well. 

[nmigliore]

The Mets really do need to keep Walker. Despite being overshadowed by the crying over spilled milk with Murphy, and all things Murphy in general, he's been one of the best 2B in the league this year and arguably the best Mets' position player (the one player making it arguable being Cespedes, a no-doubt goner this winter).

If not Walker, who is your 2B next season? Herrera was shipped out. Cecchini's offensive profile is reminiscent of Ruben Tejada and he's an error machine in the field who hasn't ever played a single inning at 2B. Reyes? LOL. Flores has proven to be a useful part but more so as lefty-mashing utility infielder. A free agent? Check out the 2B list, it's horrendous. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

45 minutes ago, capo said:

I  don't know if I'm going there with Walker over Murph. Walker has disappeared for huge stretches at a time.  Murph was pretty consistent.  Something the Mets don't have anywhere other than deGrom right now. Walker is having a career year hr wise but his doubles are way down. Murph racked up the doubles. These are rally type hits. Something these Mets know nothing about. I'll take our version of Murph all day over this version of Walker. I'm not at suprised by Murph's big year. The Mets made a mistake not bringing him back. He was the one rock in the lineup.  He had warts on the defensive side but he could also make you a big play there as well. 

Murph ran very hot and cold here too, though like Walker, he reached the point where he would have his numbers by the end of the year (he was pretty steady overall from 2012-15).  Murph's cold spells were rough because he didn't walk much...along defensive gaffes and baserunning blunders, that was the other thing that could be frustrating with him.  His OB%s were pretty low for a guy putting up his BAs; of course, when you're having a season like he is in 2016, you don't notice the lack of walks. 

Yes you are surprised by Murph's big year.  Everyone is.  If you want to tell me that you saw him possibly hitting more home runs, or hitting for a .310ish BA, or flirting with a OB+SLG in the .820-.850 range, that I could see.  You did NOT see him putting up these numbers that are way above and beyond his career to date.  No one did.  He wasn't even the Nationals' first choice to play second.  Guys sometimes have a beastly year out of nowhere (and promptly return to being the players they were before).  I don't know if Murph has another big year like that in him.  But to say the Mets should've kept him now is classic second-guessing.  And the alternate timeline isn't pretty...like we've discussed, suddenly the CF tandem to start the season is De Aza and Lagares, and Niese is probably traded for a lesser piece than Walker...say what you will about Walker, but he's a solid dependable vet, while Niese has become a reclamation project. 

nmig pretty much nailed it...Walker will never be 2016 Murphy (and for that matter Murph himself might never again be 2016 Murphy), but he's a good second baseman, and like both me and him have pointed out, the options are not good.  Bring him back knowing that you should get solid veteran contributions from him for most of his seasons here. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

If the price is right I'd bring him back.  If he potentially keeps us from doing something else I let him walk. He also has to want to come back.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

19 minutes ago, capo said:

If the price is right I'd bring him back.  If he potentially keeps us from doing something else I let him walk. He also has to want to come back.

I think I'd go $10-$12 million for 3 or 4 years.  Seems fair.  Bad news is if the market for second basemen is that bad, then someone else might be willing to pay more.  Sandy really screwed himself by dumping Herrera...I keep wondering if Sandy was really that down on him or if he was just so desperate to make a move that he just said fvck it.  The idea of Reyes, Flores or Cecchini having a shot to man second next season is infuriating...and SO Met-like.     

Define "something else".  I'd have to know who you'd think his money would stop the Mets from signing.  There's an excellent change that Cespedes' money will be off the payroll next season, which means that Sandy can sign Walker to a good deal and still have some money left.  Also have to see if he re-signs Colon.  It's not an easy question to answer with going through arbitration and all of the other scenarios, but I've gotta think a Walker deal shouldn't outright kill their flexibility.   

And yeah, obviously if he wants out of here then none of this really matters.  I don't see any obvious signs that he's biding his time here, for whatever that's worth. 

[NJDevs4978]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think I'd go $10-$12 million for 3 or 4 years.  Seems fair.  Bad news is if the market for second basemen is that bad, then someone else might be willing to pay more.  Sandy really screwed himself by dumping Herrera...I keep wondering if Sandy was really that down on him or if he was just so desperate to make a move that he just said fvck it.  The idea of Reyes, Flores or Cecchini having a shot to man second next season is infuriating...and SO Met-like.     

Define "something else".  I'd have to know who you'd think his money would stop the Mets from signing. 

I'm assuming Cespedes but I doubt that's happening anyway.  I don't know who else they're even going to look at in this FA class, it's kind of awful.  They might as well re-sign Walker at this point then if you get Ces back deal with that later, you can always flip Bruce if you re-sign both guys and money's an issue.

Edited August 16, 2016 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Well Thor got through the first unscathed, but it was messy and ugly. 20 pitches. Ugh.

[capo]

Something else cold be a trade for a salary dump. Obviously the FA class is weak. That's why Cespedes will almost certainly opt out and why SA aquired Bruce. I don't know right now an exact name but I'd like to have the flexibility in the event a Walker contract would prevent them from making a bigger move.  It's hypothetical at this point.  

['7']

Stop the presses, Curtis Granderson with a non solo HR RBI!!!

['7']

4-1 in the 5th. If Thor wants to be an ace he has to muscle up and get us into the 7th inning at 4-1. No screwing around. Hold this damn lead against this garbage team we're playing.

['7']

7-3 now. It's never easy.

['7']

7-4...choking losers. Rivera at 3rd is just a hot mess and a joke. Put Reyes there. If Reyes is there this inning is over at 7-3. 

And Thor broke down and didn't deliver the big shutdown inning when he needed to. Not a bigtime performance. Whatever killer instinct he once had has vanished. It may be the spur...he may be in a dead arm period, who knows...but he is nowhere near as imposing as he was and he goes 3-2 on everyone.

['7']

This is such a short bus groups of incompetent fvcks. 7-1 lead in the 6th with Thor on the mound and now they are scraping and clawing.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 hours ago, '7' said:

This is such a short bus groups of incompetent fvcks. 7-1 lead in the 6th with Thor on the mound and now they are scraping and clawing.

I don't get excited when Thor takes the mound anymore.  He's been extremely ordinary the past two months, save for his K totals:

10 starts, 55 IP, 68 H, 30 R, 25 ER, 5 HR, 18 BB, 65 K, 1.56 WHIP, 4.09 ERA (should probably be worse, considering all of the baserunners he's allowing) 

And of course, high pitch counts all over the place. 

Really hope he improves off this season.  Yeah, overall, for a guy's first full season in the majors, it's hardly bad, but this second half has really been pretty blah.

[NJDevs4978]

Matz was pretty sub-mediocre for the last couple months before his last two starts.  I think the spurs have to be affecting both of them, though Matz has done a better job powering through it lately.  I find it hard to get on both because of those 'extenuating circumstances', Thor was pretty darn good last year and the first half of this year.  They do need him to be better and he can be better, I just don't know if he's physically capable at the moment.

[NJDevs4978]

What live chicken did we sacrifice to bring back the 2006 Reyes?

[NJDevs4978]

Too bad we couldn't bring back 2012 Niese   Of course he'll probably get every start the rest of the season cause there's nobody better and Wheeler's had yet another speed bump and is probably done for the season.

They might as well try Seth Lugo, he can't be worse than Niese or Verrett although it's entirely probable he's AS bad.

Edited August 18, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[capo]

32 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

What live chicken did we sacrifice to bring back the 2006 Reyes?

I did it. It was the rare egg laying rooster.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by capo

['7']

Same ol worthless Niese. 4th inning implosion and that's game over

[NJDevs4978]

The irony is we usually do well in the BOB or whatever they call the launching pad now when the D'Backs actually have decent teams but now that they're awful we can't touch them.

Then again we aren't much beyond awful these days ourselves.  

Edited August 18, 2016 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Cespedes is back tomorrow and I think Cabrera may not be far behind. If we don't turn it on with them in the lineup and go on a 6-7 game win streak to correct things then it's over and it will be over before September even rolls around and Citi will be a ghost town

13-19 since the All Star break counting todays loss. Truly brutal. Unwatchable too.

We watched the division slip away, the first WC slip away, now the 2nd WC is 4 games. This is very close to bottom dropping out territory.

The Mets literally have to sweep the Giants four straight. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by '7'

['7']

And Bumgarner tomorrow. Almost want to apologize to deGrom in advance who I know will bring his A game and likely lose 1-0 where the Mets almost (or do) get no hit.