New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

52 minutes ago, '7' said:

Fontes is a good analogy. You know looking back his record is a lot better than I'd imagined it to be. He made the playoffs 3 straight years for Detroit. When have they ever done that since? And he always seemed like such a sympathetic figure. Poured his heart into that team, always looked so sad, pained, forlorn, stressed out.

Terry is staying. He's got all of 2017 and there is no way he is getting fired after World Series + Postseason and potentially playoffs. I actually thought for a moment (after he was ill and missed the game in Milwaukee) that Collins might retire at the end of 2016 regardless of what this team does. No he's definitely coming back.

Collins actually had the players of a former team write to either the GM (or owner) asking for him to be fired. He used to be a lot closer to Larry Bowa than the man he is now.

The only reason we made this run was because we got enough out of an offense that returned some healthy bodies, as well as a solid organizational approach to pitching. Warthen and our AAA/AA/A farm teams made sure Gsellman and Gee were ready to pitch and compete when their numbers were called.

The problem with Fontes' teams is they just never got it done come playoff time.  And yeah, there was a sad-sack element about him for sure.  But he stuck around long enough to coach 133 games (66-67 record). 

Yeah, Collins was despised by his previous teams...we've been through it many times before, but we know why he was hired...if Sandy had stuck to his original plan, Terry never makes it to the "relevancy" years.  But things just kind of fell into place for TC to keep hanging around...I think if there had been that one obvious guy that meshed with Sandy's mentality, that guy would've gotten hired, probably before last season.  He just never appeared. 

It's funny, you wonder if any players behind the scenes ever went to bat for Terry.  Sandy doesn't strike me as a players' GM though...or even much of a people person for that matter.  TC probably has a bit of a goofy down-to-earth charm that appeals to his players. 

[NJDevs4978]

12 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's funny, you wonder if any players behind the scenes ever went to bat for Terry.  Sandy doesn't strike me as a players' GM though...or even much of a people person for that matter.  TC probably has a bit of a goofy down-to-earth charm that appeals to his players. 

I could picture Wright doing that, I doubt anyone else would have enough stature to get the GM's ear on that kind of thing.  And I do think Terry's undergone a late-career metamorphisis in terms of personality a la Coughlin, like you or 7 said earlier in his career he was more like Larry Bowa.  You almost never hear him rip any player in public, and he also (to his credit, or blame depending on how you look at it) has never said boo about the front office treating him like a middleman - constantly hiring coaches on his staff and not really running stuff by him first.

Edited October 3, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

35 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I could picture Wright doing that, I doubt anyone else would have enough stature to get the GM's ear on that kind of thing.  And I do think Terry's undergone a late-career metamorphisis in terms of personality a la Coughlin, like you or 7 said earlier in his career he was more like Larry Bowa.  You almost never hear him rip any player in public, and he also (to his credit, or blame depending on how you look at it) has never said boo about the front office treating him like a middleman - constantly hiring coaches on his staff and not really running stuff by him first.

'7' mentioned Larry Bowa, and I mentioned Coughlin.  I do think Terry spent enough time away from the game to realize that he couldn't possibly approach his job the same way this time around...at the time, he knew at the very least, this could be a very short gig, and quite probably his last.  Credit to him for adjusting and evolving, when it came to dealing with his players. 

It's probably not easy for TC to hold his tongue when it comes to Sandy...you've got this smug, arrogant, often condescending (with everyone) boss who hasn't always given you as much to work with as you'd like, and who treats you like you're a replaceable drone (but doesn't have the balls to actually replace you). 

As crazy as is sounds, Lou Lamoriello and Sandy Alderson are a little more similar than we think (though not carbon-copies of each other)...it's just that Lou became that much more lovable when his team became a perennial contender, and won some championships...it's funny, in that you could almost compare the '93-'94 Devils to the 2015 Mets...will the 2016 Mets become the '95 Devils...the team that didn't look as impressive as the previous year's team in the regular season, but put it all together come the playoffs? 

Moves like Reed and Salas were actually very Lou-like, when you think about it...those not-obvious targets that wound up being terrific and helpful pickups.  And like Lou, though Sandy isn't known for making the big deadline deal/late season moves, he will make them (Gilmour, Mogilny; Cespedes, Bruce). 

[capo]

Good comparisons,  CR.

I'm feeling pretty good about the wild card  game.  I think the Mets are going to be pumped.  Bumgarner is really going to have to live up to the bill. We all know Thor will be jacked...

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1995 Devils and 2016 Mets even finished with very similar winning%s in the regular season:  .542 for the Devils, and .537 for the Mets.   And both teams had to finish up strong just to make the playoffs...they were both under .500 past the halfway point of both their seasons.   

Man, would be killer if Bruce could somehow turn into Neil Broten come playoff time...he definitely wasn't during the regular season.  Would also be great if Cespedes could become playoff Claude Lemieux this time around.  A second consecutive September/playoff Cespedes fade is going to be disappointing.  

['7']

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

1995 Devils and 2016 Mets even finished with very similar winning%s in the regular season:  .542 for the Devils, and .537 for the Mets.   And both teams had to finish up strong just to make the playoffs...they were both under .500 past the halfway point of both their seasons.   

Man, would be killer if Bruce could somehow turn into Neil Broten come playoff time...he definitely wasn't during the regular season.  Would also be great if Cespedes could become playoff Claude Lemieux this time around.  A second consecutive September/playoff Cespedes fade is going to be disappointing.  

I think the Mets are too beat to be the 1995 Devils, that Devils team was completely healthy heading into the postseason and also a huge afterthought. I mean it was a foregone conclusion Boston and the mighty Blaine Lacher riding the emotional wave of the Boston Garden closing was going to beat them...if they were mostly healthy they would have as good a chance as any to win the whole thing. Nobody wants to stare down our staff when healthy

If this Mets team does make some kind of run I think the best comparison would be the 1987 Flyers, beat up, very lucky, a huge clutch performance (Hextall) and getting clutch goals from Al Hill, Derrick Smith, Lindsay Carson...guys who have been long lost to history.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I'm not saying that it's a flawless comparison...far from it.  Just looking for slivers of hope wherever I can find them.  I pretty much agree...I think these guys are beat up and pretty spent.  Took so much just to get to tomorrow night.

[thecoffeecake]

You guys watching this AL game or saving your energies for tomorrow? Tillman looks good so far (minus being down 3-0 to Joey Bats as I write this).

 

.... And I suppose minus that Bautista home run

Edited October 5, 2016 by thecoffeecake

[NJDevs4978]

God could you imagine how much we'd be ripping Terry Collins if they played at SF tomorrow and he brought in everyone BUT Familia in a tie game?  I get bringing in your actual bullpen pitchers I suppose but once you start bringing in mercurial guys not used to pitching out of the pen...Britton better have been ill or hurt.

At least at home he has no excuse not to pitch Familia in the ninth of a tie game.

Edited October 5, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[MadDog2020]

Rico is pumped for the Jays: https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamHenrique/status/783511926928269313


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[nmigliore]

Was honestly a bit surprised the O's didn't get hammered - Tillman has a HORRIFIC history against the Jays and in that ballpark. 

No excuse for not going to your best reliever, especially in a do-or-die game like that. I have no idea what was going through Showalter's mind to go to Brian freakin' Duensing and Ubaldo Jimenez over a reliever who will get Cy Young Award votes this fall. Incredible.

Edited October 5, 2016 by nmigliore

['7']

Not especially optimistic today but...we're here. Giants just seem to be the more blessed/lucky franchise and Bumgarner is so lethal.

Enjoyed Orioles/Jays last night. Great tense baseball. Kind of rooting for Boston out east. Not sure why. I like Ortiz and that slugging offense, and I love watching October baseball with the backdrop of Fenway.

And you can bet the league office is praying for Cubs-Sox

Edited October 5, 2016 by '7'

['7']

1 hour ago, nmigliore said:

Was honestly a bit surprised the O's didn't get hammered - Tillman has a HORRIFIC history against the Jays and in that ballpark. 

No excuse for not going to your best reliever, especially in a do-or-die game like that. I have no idea what was going through Showalter's mind to go to Brian freakin' Duensing and Ubaldo Jimenez over a reliever who will get Cy Young Award votes this fall. Incredible.

Terry-esque. Duensing has what pitched 10 innings this year? Crazy to see a supposedly intelligent manager make these decisions (unless there is more to the story that we don't know)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Buck is one of those guys who only seems to be able to take teams so far...but is a good guy to help fast-track a floundering team to success.  

And yeah, I could see TC doing something like what Show did...maybe not the exact same thing (he'd at least bring in Familia, even if Familia had zero wiggle room due to TC waiting too long), but TC makes his share of "Huh, what?!" moves, as we all know.  But yeah, TC's not known as a "brains" guy, like Show is.

As far as tonight goes...I think the Giants win this pretty easily...I think Syndergaard will get touched up for 2-3 runs early, and the Mets will never recover.  Hope to be dead wrong.  

Edited October 5, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

You can tell pretty quickly if MadBum has it or not. Thing is he hasn't been lockdown god-mode for like 8 of his last 9 starts. 

Our only hope is to run into a few fastballs and get lucky. Maybe the Giants kick the ball around...something like that.

And in a year of ex Mets coming back to haunt us...gotta watch out for Pagan. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by '7'

[nmigliore]

Giants have a pretty solid, deep lineup vs RHP. Outside of Belt, nobody has really been spectacular, but 7 of their 8 projected batters have a wRC+ of 100 or greater vs RHP this season (and Panik is close at 97).

They're also a difficult bunch to strikeout - their 17.3 K% vs RHP ranked 2nd lowest in MLB. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by nmigliore

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, '7' said:

You can tell pretty quickly if MadBum has it or not. Thing is he hasn't been lockdown god-mode for like 8 of his last 9 starts. 

Our only hope is to run into a few fastballs and get lucky. Maybe the Giants kick the ball around...something like that.

Here's how I think tonight unfolds:

Giants score a run or two in the first, Noah's thrown 25 pitches or so.

Mets go down meekly in the bottom of the first.  Noah barely has time to breathe, gives up another run or two, pitch count near 50, Mets trail 3-0. 

Thor manages to pitch into the 6th without further damage, but clearly didn't dominate the way Bumgarner does.

Bumgarner goes 7+ IP, gives up a few hits, not much else, Ks 10.

Mets bullpen coughs up a couple more runs.

Mets score at least one run over the last couple of innings and threaten for more, but can't get the big hit.  

Basically, Mets lose 5-1, with many familiar bugaboos on display.  

[thecoffeecake]

29 minutes ago, '7' said:

You can tell pretty quickly if MadBum has it or not. Thing is he hasn't been lockdown god-mode for like 8 of his last 9 starts. 

Our only hope is to run into a few fastballs and get lucky. Maybe the Giants kick the ball around...something like that.

And in a year of ex Mets coming back to haunt us...gotta watch out for Pagan. 

Except that game when he got pulled for going after Puig at Dodger Stadium.

['7']

29 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

Giants have a pretty solid, deep lineup vs RHP. Outside of Belt, nobody has really been spectacular, but 7 of their 8 projected batters have a wRC+ of 100 or greater vs RHP this season (and Panik is close at 97).

They're also a difficult bunch to strikeout - their 17.3 K% vs RHP ranked 2nd lowest in MLB. 

ugh. That sounds very Royalish to me.

['7']

Lucas Duda left OFF the Wild Card roster. Not loving this decision. We may need a longball late...he's the guy who can provide one.

[nmigliore]

1B was going to be a black hole regardless tonight against Bumgarner, but where it hurts is later in the game. Say what you want about Duda but James Loney is just terrible. This is a proven fact at this point. I feel like this is TC rewarding him for his "efforts" in place of Duda this season and him being the one who "deserves" to be in there.... but it puts the Mets at a small disadvantage and any kind of disadvantage in a 1-game playoff hurts.

['7']

4 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

1B was going to be a black hole regardless tonight against Bumgarner, but where it hurts is later in the game. Say what you want about Duda but James Loney is just terrible. This is a proven fact at this point. I feel like this is TC rewarding him for his "efforts" in place of Duda this season and him being the one who "deserves" to be in there.... but it puts the Mets at a small disadvantage and any kind of disadvantage in a 1-game playoff hurts.

I hate that about Terry. Unless of course (and this certainly may be the case) Duda's back is just plain being difficult again. But I hate it when Terry rewards players or believes a pitcher when he says "I got this". He leaves the starters in there way too long and it's cost us. We got unlucky that game and unlucky all series but Terry just made one wrong decision after another.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

And here we go...

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

fvcking ESPN...great camera work on that kid's first pitch.  Would've been nice to have actually SEEN it.

[capo]

Let's go boys!  Swing for the fences!