New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

[nmigliore]

7 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Is anyone criticizing TC for going with his two best relievers?  Anyone who'd do that is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off base.  You can question never bringing in Blevins during Reed's inning, but even then, Reed's been terrific against lefties all season.   

In ways I feel for Familia...he's going to be made out to be a lot worse than he's really been because of last night...you could absolutely do a lot worse at closer than him...and it's not like he even blew a lead.  I'm concerned about him because he flat-out wasn't as effective as he was in 2014 and 2015 (though he did resemble that guy for stretches this season).  I've never been a huge fan of tightrope closers...hope that's not what he is becoming. 

Besides your typical morons on Twitter, I don't think so. I hadn't read any posts in this thread since early yesterday before posting, so I don't know what the feel was here on that (I didn't think anyone would oppose, especially watching this team all year), but just wanted to get that point across since all Mets fans love to get on TC whenever possible (including me), and I'm sure there are Familia bashers out there because they only watched like a few postseason games of his the last 2 years and nothing else. Process was good, result was bad. It was just a case of sh!t Happens, like it is with all sports.

Edited October 6, 2016 by nmigliore

['7']

If the Mets get average injury luck and keep Ces and Walker...I think it has a great chance to win the East. No way Washington gets this lucky again with injuries and overperformance.

The other three teams in our division will not take a sufficient enough step forward. The Mets window of opportunity is still open, and we deserve to see a season (like a the Cubs had this year) where our starting rotation get through it relatively unscathed with nobody out for the year. We saw very little of full strength Mets this year.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Can't see Harper having a year like 2016.  But I can say the same about Murph. 

Mets should still be good in 2016, but I still think the team needs tweaking.  They don't have that everyday player who is meant to lead...I don't think you want that guy to be Cespedes.  It definitely can't be Wright or Reyes (I know Wright's the captain, but that's a joke).  They need that Hernandez-type guy...doesn't need to be that talented, but have that kind of effect. 

['7']

6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Can't see Harper having a year like 2016.  But I can say the same about Murph. 

Mets should still be good in 2016, but I still think the team needs tweaking.  They don't have that everyday player who is meant to lead...I don't think you want that guy to be Cespedes.  It definitely can't be Wright or Reyes (I know Wright's the captain, but that's a joke).  They need that Hernandez-type guy...doesn't need to be that talented, but have that kind of effect. 

Also they may lose Ramos, and I doubt Werth does this again. This could be a last gasp for him.

They'll be tough to beat. I think we'll be neck and neck with the Nats all of next season.

[thecoffeecake]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Heh heh, re:  Franco...it's funny, I think he is much more beloved by the franchise (read:  Wilpons) than he ever was by the fanbase...yeah, he was a native New Yorker and all, spent a long time here, compiled some good numbers...but I think for most Mets fans, he was just kind of there...especially since a lot of his saves were of the uglier variety.  Sure, he was a pretty good closer, but nothing about him as a player was terribly captivating.  Piazza should've been the guy catching that first pitch last night.  On the "All-Time Mets Who Fans Really Embrace", Franco is way way down on that list...hell, most of the '86 team would finish well ahead of him...even the more bit players.  I remember being kind of ticked when the Mets dealt Randy Myers to get him, but from all accounts, Myers was a weird, tightly-wound guy who was freaking out his teammates...I remember reading about how he kept grenades in his locker, of all things.

Familia is really getting roasted today in a lot of circles...I think you can still start the 2017 season with him as the closer if Sandy doesn't find any deals to his liking (and move him in-season, though I have no idea for who), but I think Sandy has to least entertain the idea that Familia might be, very sadly (I hate to say it), yet another good-stat closer who's prone to crumbling in the key moment.  The Mets seem to corner the friggin' market on those guys, they really do...and man, we never seem to have that guy who kills another team, who's that incredible "money guy", ever.  The problem with a franchise like this is that it's not like playoff appearances can ever be taken for granted...none of us expected the Mets to go far this year with everything that went wrong (and SO much did), and even if Familia tosses a zero, still don't know if the unclutch bunch of zilches and frontunners ever would've plated a run.  But you don't get tons of opportunities here to fail, fairly or unfairly (the way A-Rod did before finally putting a good postseason together)...Familia has become Benitez in the eyes of many, and that means that every blown save is going to get, well, blown up, picked apart, shredded, etc.  He's already almost dead to a lot of Met fans for last night...he starts slow next season, and man will it get ugly for him.   

Depending on who's coming back next season, this could be a VERY combustible bunch of bats.  Cespy is Cespy, the way Manny was Manny, Rickey was Rickey, Darryl was Darryl...we'll have to take the bad with the good, but man do his more annoying traits become that much more so when he's disappearing at such key moments.  The Loser Brothers who never seemed to get that big hit in their first go-round together in Wright and Reyes (I saw Wright in the dugout and thought "Oh God no, not Sad Sack, please no") are actually going to get another opportunity together, only both are past their primes now. 

And Sandy, don't make it sound like Wright coming back into the fold for 2017 will be a good thing.  The Mets haven't missed this version of him when he's been out.  He will get in the way.  That's all he can do now. 

Wonder if Neil Walker signs a "bet on myself one-year contract" for 2017.  If he's willing to go that route, I'd consider bringing him back, but with that back, I could never offer him anything long-term...a shame, because I like him, but can't take that risk. 

In fairness, what did you expect the Mets to do?  With all they went through, they were going to celebrate clinching "Game 163", no matter where they were (and they had enough fans there to add some spice to it). 

That being said, I think the amount of champagne-popping is getting ridiculous now.  If you're a WC team that gets on a roll come playoff time...once for clinching a WC spot, once for winning the WC game, once for the DS, once for the CS, and once for the WS.  Is that really necessary?  Me personally, I would save the champagne for a Division Title, then for the CS and WS.  I wouldn't do it for anything WC-related, or even the DS.  Not every step needs to be punctuated so emphatically...makes the celebrations seem less special and much more like overkill. 

Phillies really looked bad as the season went on...they're greatest "strength" was finding a way to win over 70 games despite getting outscored by a ton and then some.  Braves season progressed much more positively.  But that doesn't matter...an offseason awaits, and the Phillie team that finished the season might not bear that much resemblance to the one that takes the field for 2017.  Lots of unknowns.  But they really finished up badly. 

I could not agree more about the celebrating. When you win your division, your league pennant, and the World Series, pop champagne. If the Giants were to sweep Chicago, they would have put on a celebration 3 times in a week. Come on with that. Especially for clinching a spot in what is a play in game. I get that it's a long season, but it's gotten ridiculous.

The Phils won't look terribly different next year. Mackanin wants a bat but Klentak wants to put it off. I appreciate the patience. Nola, Velazquez, and Morton were hurt, there's most of the rotation. If Hellickson comes back and everyone stays relatively healthy, the rotation, which ended the season on a fantastic note, will be better. The lineup didn't change drastically from last year, but they won 7 or 8 more games in 2016. If Jeanmar Gomez hadn't imploded in September, it would've been 10 or 11 more.

I bet the Braves are closer, but I expect a 75 win season next year. A big part of the core of the next contending team is on the roster. Maikel Franco I think is more of a .280/30+ HR guy. He definitely struggled this year and still had a good season. He'll always be streaky, but from day one he was swinging out of his shoes all year. That's what happens in a weak lineup. I think a new hitting coach will help. Cesar Hernandez couldn't be put out in the last 3 weeks. There's chatter that Odubel Herrera's strong finish put him on the trade block, so who knows if our all star is back next year. But there are a lot of positives going into Spring.

I'll be incredibly interested to see what the Mets do this off season. Would you guys be on board blowing the team up, maybe moving one of deGrom or Harvey, to try to put a more sustainable roster on the field?

['7']

Celebrating a 1 game playoff is idiotic. I don't mind a brief mound celebration but champagne in the locker room? odd. But the Mets didn't invent this celebration. All Wild Card game participants do this

I'm more for a best 2 out of 3 series immediately after the conclusion of the regular season (as in next day, season ends Sunday...Mon-Tues-Wed best 2 of 3) Thursday NLDS commences. Baseball should only have 1 playoffs out of absolute necessity. Baseball is a series sport, hockey is a series sport. Football is a 1 game sport.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, '7' said:

Celebrating a 1 game playoff is idiotic. I don't mind a brief mound celebration but champagne in the locker room? odd. But the Mets didn't invent this celebration. All Wild Card game participants do this

I'm more for a best 2 out of 3 series immediately after the conclusion of the regular season (as in next day, season ends Sunday...Mon-Tues-Wed best 2 of 3) Thursday NLDS commences. Baseball should only have 1 playoffs out of absolute necessity. Baseball is a series sport, hockey is a series sport. Football is a 1 game sport.

I actually like that it's so prohibitive to be a WC team...all the more motivation to try to take the division.  You should have to pay some sort of penalty for not winning your division. 

Of course, it gets goofy without implementing a 1-5 seeding...you can have a team winning 84 games be a division champ, and two 90+ win teams playing each other in a WC game.  But in any format where a weak division winner gets to the playoffs and enjoys the spoils of winning its division, you'll get years like that (we've seen it in the NFL).     

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

A couple of articles out today quoting a Met source as saying that Cespedes is telling some people that he'll back, and others that he won't. 

Probably pretty simple this time around:  I think he'll consider coming back, but the Mets are going to have to pay up.  4-5 years, $100-125 million.  Maybe even an option for a sixth year (with a buyout). 

Last year I wasn't willing to do that.  I still think Cespedes on a contract like that is a scary proposition, but where else can the Mets go?  You just CAN'T let him walk and sell the fanbase on Bruce, others, and a lot of ifs.  There's plenty not to like about Cespedes, and I think he's shown that he's a bit of a paper tiger, but I just don't see another option that makes better sense. 

21 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

I'll be incredibly interested to see what the Mets do this off season. Would you guys be on board blowing the team up, maybe moving one of deGrom or Harvey, to try to put a more sustainable roster on the field?

I think you gotta wait until those guys show that they're healthy...their value is just too diminished right now.  But yeah, Sandy's probably going to have to consider moving one of the young arms within a season or two for a legit bat (possibly in-season, as soon as 2017), and hope that a guy like Gsellman or Lugo can step in (I think Lugo's sample had a TON of good fortune involved...I feel better about Gsellman possibly being a decent 4th or 5th starter in the future).

I don't think the team needs to be "blown up", but it does need tweaking.  I think you can start the season with Reed and Familia as your 8th and 9th inning guys, but I do also feel that Sandy needs to at least consider that Familia might be one of many "but he puts up some terrific numbers" closers that wilts in higher stakes.  You see if the Mets can actually break camp with all of the starting pitching being healthy (is it going to come as any great shock to ANYONE if at least one arm doesn't make it through spring training?), get through April and May, and then entertain the idea of moving one of the higher-profile arms.  I just wonder how much a deGrom, Matz, or Harvey can fetch, even if all three are pitching well...they all have a big time "BUYER BEWARE" label stuck to them, with their injury histories.  If Sandy really wants a big-time impact bat via trade, the first arm every GM will demand will be Syndergaard's.  I can't give him up.