New York Mets 2016 Season Thread

[NJDevs4978]

1-17 now...has Flores gotten more than like five hits since last August?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Yeah, he's not exactly pushing Wright at the moment, lol.

[NJDevs4978]

I'm even more glad they signed Bastardo and Henderson after watching Robles blow up in big spots already this year, and he doesn't even have a high leverage role

['7']

ugh. d'arnaud's game has been atrocious top to bottom. How the hell can you not catch that ball?

 

[NJDevs4978]

lol that was a fitting ending

['7']

Well, the Phillies won their world series. That was actually a nice try by Wright, but no chance on the throw with where his momentum was going.

[NJDevs4978]

3 minutes ago, '7' said:

Well, the Phillies won their world series. That was actually a nice try by Wright, but no chance on the throw with where his momentum was going.

A third baseman like Moustakas probably sticks that out up the Phillies' ass but I can't really ask David to make that throw at this point.  Just missing the foul pop was even more excruciating.

Edited April 21, 2016 by NJDevs4978

['7']

12 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

A third baseman like Moustakas probably sticks that out up the Phillies' ass but I can't really ask David to make that throw at this point.  Just missing the foul pop was even more excruciating.

Yea. You know it was a tough play but makeable. Didn't even go into the seats. Of course he missed it. Today was a very sad day watching Wright out there.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 hours ago, '7' said:

Yea. You know it was a tough play but makeable. Didn't even go into the seats. Of course he missed it. Today was a very sad day watching Wright out there.

I get more frustrated and angry watching Wright out there (I know, big surprise, I keep it so well-hidden) than anything else...I got past sadness a long time ago.  I can barely stomach the sight of him in a Met uniform anymore. 

What's maddening about Wright is that he's only playing almost every day for three reasons:

1) His paycheck.

2) The Captain America "David Wright" namebrand...only he's like a once-great car company that's now churning out sh!tty cars, but people haven't yet caught on to the fact that the quality is nowhere near what it used to be.  I think the fans have a general idea that Wright is pretty bad now, but I think the franchise still sees him as more of the 2005-08 Wright, and treats him with too much respect (the person deserves the respect, the player does not).  He's all about cashed-out rep. 

3) The fact that no one is emerging to challenge him (and likely won't...more on that later).  I definitely don't know if Flores is an answer for anything, but the limited-duty action probably isn't doing anything to help his game. 

This Mets team has a chance to do some terrific things this season...but that's all they have.  A chance.  I don't think their margin for error is great.  Sure, they could go to the World Series again if their pitching is hot, could even win it all, but they have to get the playoffs first, and I expect that to be a tough grind. 

Although I'm clearly not the biggest Cespedes or Duda fan out there, we know that they'll fatten up on enough mediocre-to-bad pitching that by the time their seasons are done, and their final numbers will be about what you'd expect them to be (they'll look like minor-leaguers and be excruciating to watch when they're cold, but just when you feel like you've had enough of them, they'll get it going again).  Both will remains suspect playoff performers of course...but they should do enough damage during the regular season to at least help their team contend for a playoff spot.

Wright literally brings nothing to the table at this point.  He's a faded namebrand.  Yes, like every faded player, he has an occasional moment.  A surprisingly good play in the field.  A home run out of nowhere.  Even with last night's latest disaster at the plate, he still has an .811 OB+SLG...if the guy EVER drove in someone other than himself, you could definitely live with that from your #2 hitter.

But he is killing this team.  I can't take it anymore.  He's now struck out 19 times in 58 plate appearances (a beyond-ghastly 32.8% rate), and routine throws to first base are anything but.  Not only does he never drive anyone in, he doesn't even make productive outs...it's K after K after K with him in big moments, and it's nothing new, as he's long been suspect in clutch situations.  And it's aggravating as hell, because this team already has to overcome a below-average manager...now they have to do the same for the "leader" who might be a swell guy who's loved in the clubhouse, but is clearly getting in the way and will continue to.

What can the Mets do about it?  That's the big rub.  The contract is untradeable.  Flores hasn't done anything to warrant TC benching "The Captain"...as bad as Wright often is, Flores was going to need to be unconscious to start taking playing time way from Wright...well, Flores has been unconscious I guess, but in the wrong way.  The current from-within options (aside from Flores) are Eric Campbell (bleech), Danny Muno (double bleech), and current Vegas-third-baseman-by-default Matt Reynolds (all seven of his 3rd base games in the minors have come this season).  So basically no options...except to watch more of Wright hurting this team.  And it's going to be infuriating to see. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

I agree with everything except the part about Flores.  The kid exceeded expectations at a position he should have never held last year  and held his own with the bat. Now, he'sjust not playing. So, he literally has nothing to build off of. But, youre right, he's not getting Captain America's position no matter what he does.

[NJDevs4978]

I can't get mad at Wright cause he's a ghost now. To me right now he's just a ball player who used to be David Wright, in part for a reason not of his own doing - he didn't wreck his body through drugs or nightlife. And yeah he's getting paid a lot of money and it's a bad contract now (not that I think we will have to deal with the full five years though), but it's a sunk cost and for once this offseason payroll was not a factor in decision making anyway.

Edited April 21, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

42 minutes ago, capo said:

I agree with everything except the part about Flores.  The kid exceeded expectations at a position he should have never held last year  and held his own with the bat. Now, he'sjust not playing. So, he literally has nothing to build off of. But, youre right, he's not getting Captain America's position no matter what he does.

If Flores went, say, 9-for-17 instead of 1-for-17 to start the season, then maybe you start hearing more clamoring for him getting playing time at Wright's expense.  Flores is in a tough spot because everyone in the infield is hitting at the moment (even Wright was until the last couple of days, in spite of the endless follies with runners on), so it's really hard for him to get full days in the lineup.  He's at the point where he has to hit in seemingly every AB to make a dent, especially with this poor start...now it's about as uphill of a battle as it can get for him. 

On that note, Lagares is in an even worse spot, really...there just aren't a lot of outfield ABs available to guys not named Granderson, Cespedes, and Conforto right now. 

As much as you'd like to give both a guys a solid week of playing time to show what they can do...how can you?  The outfield is too hot right now to tinker with, in Lagares' case.  With Flores, Wright is going to have to disappear for at least a week before Flores would get in, and if that happened, Flores would probably have to go 3-for-4 with a HR to get another game...and then a 0-for-4 in that one probably puts him right back on the bench in favor of Wright.  It's like I said, I don't really know what Flores can bring (he was OK last year with the bat, but guys who make outs 70.5% of the time are tough to keep putting in the lineup...he needs to get on base more), but what sucks for him it's going to take something drastic for him to get a chance to show it...and he'll have to make the absolute most out of that chance to keep playing.  Everything is stacked against him.

13 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I can't get mad at Wright cause he's a ghost now. Right now he's just a ball player who used to be David Wright to me, in large part for a reason not of his own doing. And yeah he's getting paid a lot of money and it's a bad contract now (not that I think we will have to deal with the full five years though), but it's a sunk cost and for once this offseason payroll was not a factor in decision making.

Whether it's his fault or not (obviously he was dealt a sh!tty hand with the spinal stenosis), his presence in the lineup and on the field is hurting the team.  I can hope against hope that somehow it will turn around (and it has to on some level...he can't keep striking out seemingly EVERY time there's RISP, eventually he'll get some hits), but I think game's like last night's, where he is a clear culprit in a loss, will happen more often than any of us would like.  But it all goes back to the same thing...only one guy currently in house might be a better option at third than Wright in Flores, but he could also be just as bad, maybe worse.  Flores is like the back up QB who's got the unknown factor working for him (if he's even got that), but he could easily get the job for two weeks and do next to nothing with it, at which point Wright will seem like a conquering hero coming back into the lineup.  It's just a bad situation all-around, and one that was definitely a possibility with Wright being what he currently is, but sadly it's also an impossible situation for everyone involved.  The only thing that could've made a real difference is if the Mets had a 22-year-old absolute phenom in AA or AAA ready to burst onto the scene, but they don't. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Vis-a-vis Lagares I don't get all the reactionary ripping of Terry 'platooning' Conforto. How else is he supposed to find Lagares AB's/playing time? It's not like he's some total scrub earning peanuts, he's the best fielding OF'er, he does hit LH pitching and he's making several million dollars himself. If anything the Mets have been fortunate early with five games in AL parks they can at least get everyone including deAza some bats but they won't have the DH benefit too many more times...

I get its not ideal to only get Conforto scarce AB's against lefties but ultimately that's the price we had to pay to bring Cespedes back and for not having another viable lead off option besides Grandy (who really should be the one sitting against lefties).

Edited April 21, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Conforto is getting plenty of ABs, so it's not like he's gotten robbed at all...and yeah, both Lagares and De Aza have to get ABs somewhere. 

And of course, if Cespedes opts out and the Mets choose not to sign him, Lagares suddenly has a much bigger role here in the near future...he could be a lot more important in 2017 than some might think.  He'll also be making $4.5 million in 2017, $6 million in 2018, and $9 million in 2019.  So yeah, it won't do the Mets much good to bury him on the bench with 150-200 ABs or to consistently bring him in as a late-innings defensive replacement...but at the same, Lagares is partly responsible for where he finds himself...like Flores, he makes too many outs, and he regressed at the plate last season.     

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Jake Arrieta with a no-hitter...I remember when those used to be rare.   Not so much now.  

Gabriel Ynoa off to a nice start for Vegas through three starts.  Only allowed 10 hits in 17.1 IP...K to BB ratio isn't great though (9-to-7).  

[capo]

8 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Jake Arrieta with a no-hitter...I remember when those used to be rare.   Not so much now.  

Gabriel Ynoa off to a nice start for Vegas through three starts.  Only allowed 10 hits in 17.1 IP...K to BB ratio isn't great though (9-to-7).  

The Mets still can't seem to throw one... and Santana thing is so tainted like a stolen item.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 minutes ago, capo said:

The Mets still can't seem to throw one... and Santana thing is so tainted like a stolen item.

Although I was definitely into Santana's "no"-hitter at the time, yeah, to an extent it's hard for me to take it too seriously...he clearly gave up a hit.  I'd like for a Met to throw a no-doubt-about-it no-hitter someday. 

[NJDevs4978]

Eh the Beltran play was karmic retribution for Doc losing a no-hitter against the Cubs in his rookie year on a Knight error called a hit

Plus it might have cost Johan his career too, if they do call that a hit in the 5th inning maybe he's still pitching. He's a bit of a martyred hero and to his undying credit he's never shown any regret or remorse about it

Edited April 22, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Eh the Beltran play was karmic retribution for Doc losing a no-hitter against the Cubs in his rookie year on a Knight error called a hit

Plus it might have cost Johan his career too, if they do call that a hit in the 5th inning maybe he's still pitching. He's a bit of a martyred hero and to his undying credit he's never shown any regret or remorse about it

Oh man...good point about the karma, lol.  As great as Doc was in 1985, I think those last two months or so in 1984 was when Doc was at his raw best...he was just SUCH a beast then.  And of course, the whole 50-start, 37-5 stretch I've detailed before...here it is again:

1984:  8-1 record, 76 IP, 42 H, 9 ER, 13 BB, 105 K, 7 HR, 1.07 ERA

1985:  24-4 record, 276.2 IP, 198 H, 47 ER, 69 BB, 268 K, 13 HR, 1.53 ERA

1986:  5-0 record, 52 IP, 30 H, 6 ER, 8 BB, 39 K, 2 HR, 1.04 ERA

Totals:  37-5 record, 404.2 IP, 270 H, 62 ER, 90 BB, 412 K, 22 HR, 1.38 ERA 

And he also hit 8 career home runs to boot...

Yeah, re:  Johan, it turned out to be such a costly one-no-hitter, but EVERYONE was caught up in the moment...and I do mean EVERYONE.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Don't get me wrong, I think Johan would have eventually had issues - shoot he had major surgery before that. If anything the 133-pitch no hitter might have accelerated the timetable. But that game was basically our only real moment in the sun as a Met fan for several years.

And yeah re: Doc it's hard to find an as dominant or more dominant stretch at 'any' point in anyone else's career let alone the beginning. Maybe '99-03 Pedro came close considering he pitched in the AL, at the height of the steroid era but I doubt even his sheer numbers approached Doc

Edited April 22, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

nmig pointed out Pedro's 1999-00 seasons...this was even better than Doc's stretch...and came at the height of the 'roid era to boot:

60 G (58 starts), 430.1 IP, 288 H, 100 R, 91 ER, 26 HR, 69 BB, 597 K (?!), 0.830 WHIP, 1.90 ERA (in the AL no less) 

And you can even expand those two years into the entire seven-year sample from 1997-2003...the one real blemish on that stretch is after 2000, Pedro started wearing down, as far as how many innings he could actually pitch (he only went 116.2 IP in 2001). 

But check out THESE numbers over seven seasons:

201 G (199 starts), 1408 IP, 1009 H, 394 R, 344 ER, 93 HR, 315 BB, 1761 K, 0.94 WHIP, 2.20 ERA, 118-36 record (219-100 lifetime) 

All of this accomplished in the 'roid era, where his season ERA+ (100 is average) was over 200 FIVE TIMES (no surprise that he led the AL in ERA those same five seasons).

Only real knock is that he wasn't an innings horse and was a little fragile for a power pitcher.  But those numbers are beastly.  Considering the era they came in, one wonders if he could've gotten into the Hall of Fame on those numbers alone, Sandy Koufax-style. 

Of course, Koufax pitched in a different era, but man were his numbers just stupid over final last five seasons...and in the last one he pitched in excruciating pain, every single start.

But the numbers:

111-29 record, 181 G (176 starts), 1377 IP, 959 H, 342 R, 298 ER, 89 HR, 316 BB, 1444 K, 1.95 ERA...and 100 complete games...54 in the final two seasons alone (82 starts and 658.2 IP in those seasons as well).  As great as he was though, offense was clearly falling at that time...he never had an ERA+ higher than 190 in any of those seasons.        

['7']

And speaking of roids, Chris Colabello just tested positive and has been suspended for 80 games.  Batting .069 this year but was great last year in only 100 games or so.

To me no hitters always seem to come in bunches...so look for another one to happen soon. Just one of my weird superstitions.

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah Pedro's numbers were even more amazing than I remembered.

I do think Koufax was the best ever...I probably should have specified more I was referring to pitchers I'd actually seen when I said Pedro was the only one that compared to that stretch with Doc.  The irony is we're all talking about this when people are debating whether Arrietta is having the greatest stretch of pitching ever since like the beginning of the second half last year.

Edited April 22, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

You gotta look at how he compares to his peers...not to take anything away from Arrietta, but Pedro was doing his thing when pretty much no one else was.  You've got plenty of pitchers putting up fat numbers now.  

['7']

Well Warthen declared Matt "fixed" so I'm curious to see if the old Harvey is back on the mound tonight. Certainly facing a AA lineup like Atlanta may help...

Koufax was a freak like Pedro from a physical standpoint both had the perfect pitchers bodies. Thin and lean with disproportionally long arms and long fingers. Their pitches had unbelievable bite to them.