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New York Mets 2016 Season Thread


Colorado Rockies 1976
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10 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

lol I haven't been nearly as anti-Terry as CR or anyone else but the Rivera as the DH was sort of my snapping point with him and he's followed that up with bizarre decision after bizarre decision.

Yeah, it's time.  Now he's really being exposed as being in over his head.  It's not fair to put it ALL on him...the baseball gods pretty much saw to it that nearly everything that could go wrong in 2016, would.  But this is overdue.  TC has been a cranky clown for damned near the whole season.

And as far as Carlos Gomez goes...no fvcking way.  The guy had a nice stepping-stone season in 2012, and two good years (2013 and 2014).  He was pretty crappy before that and he's gone back to being just as crappy now.  He has been absolutely awful since going to the Astros.  Oh, and he's a punk as well.  There is nothing there, and I'm tired of guys getting a chance to prove there's nothing there in a Met uniform.  Reyes living up to EXACTLY what I expected out of him his enough for me.  I don't need to see another declining deadbeat get a batch of games to prove he's got next to nothing left. 

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Finished Lenny's memoir.  None of you are really missing much if you choose to forego it.  After his career, he gambled and partied a lot, had some career successes (like his car wash business, which he sold for $55 million), then it's everyone else who screwed him in the end (according to him), though there's clear stories of how it was very much the opposite.  He glosses over a lot.  He takes very little responsibility for his (many) missteps...basically it's everyone else, Lenny's just misunderstood and everyone is out to get him, he's never been treated fairly, the whole world is against him, blah blah blah.  The book "Nailed!" by his ex-employee Christopher Frankie (I read that one some time ago) is a much better insight into how an unrepentant sociopath ran roughshod over everyone and anyone he knew to get what he thought he needed or deserved.  It's obvious that trouble will eventually find Lenny again, and it will all be of his own doing.  How anyone can even DREAM of working with him or trusting him, I have no idea.

Also read Ron Darling's Game 7 (1986 WS) memoir...that Game 7 is the center of his story, but he intersperses stories of his background (grew up near  Boston as a huge fan of the Red Sox), his rise to the majors and commentary on some of his teammates and other baseball memories throughout.  It's a pretty interesting read, in that I find, in a lot of sports autobios and memoirs, player memories of big games often sound very matter-of-fact and nuts-and-bolts.  Darling really lets you get inside his head, as to what he was thinking leading up to the big game (the fact that the game was rained out and pushed out another day really messed with his head), what he was thinking DURING the game (while he's on the mound and after he's taken out), and why he felt that he ultimately didn't get it done in the moment he'd always dreamed of owning (he pitched just 3.2 innings and allowed 3 ER, and threw a lot of pitches before Davey took him out, with his team trailing 3-0). 

It's a good read and insight into Game 7, and quite detailed (though sometimes a little repetitive).  Darling admitted that he and Davey didn't really see eye-to-eye, and it's not hard to see why...Ron spends much of his time in the book doing EXACTLY what used to drive Davey crazy about him...overthinking.  I don't want to give too much away, but he makes it clear that, as much as he enjoyed being a Met, that he really wasn't that tight with many of his teammates...basically said he formed three close friendships in his entire time there (off the top of my head, I know two of them were Ed Lynch and Keith Hernandez...I think the other was Kevin Elster).  What was interesting was that, though Elster never hit much as a Met (OB+SLG of .631 in a Met uniform), Darling makes it clear that he and every other Met pitcher didn't care, because they loved his glove in the field that much...much like Gooden, Darling makes it clear that pitchers do think about the fielders, and how deflating it can be when their teammates aren't making the plays.  He makes it clear that he thought the absolute world of Elster's fielding abilities.

Though he was far less successful with the Oakland A's in his roughly 4.5 seasons there (though he did have a solid 1992 season with them), he said he actually felt much closer to that group of players...that many of them, like Darling, had families at that point, and that they were constantly having BBQs and arranging a lot of get-togethers involving all of the children.  Said it was just a very fun bunch to be around.  Ironically, though he and Keith obviously work together, and that he, Keith, and Gary all get along very well, he's actually not that close to Keith anymore...no falling out, and they still have dinners on occasion, but that once they were no longer teammates, things just kind of changed, through no fault of either Ron or Keith. 

Sadly, I'd rather read books then watch the nightly trainwreck these days. 

 

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I'd be all for Gomez if he was on a short leash and basically in the Justin Ruggiano role (only plays against lefties and as a defensive replacement until Lagares gets back), but you know if they got him they wouldn't be able to help themselves thinking they could get the Gomez of old and give him nine million chances to fail.

re: Darling yeah I've meant to read/get that book too.  And yeah it probably is inevitable that teammates will fall out of touch over the years post-retirement, even good friends like Ron and Keith - everyone has their own lives post-baseball.  I actually remember reading in Keith's '85-86 memoir 'If At First' long ago how he and Ron were close too and how some reporter caused a rift between them early in '85 by twisting around something Keith said.  They probably don't need to socialize now cause they're around each other so much with the broadcast team anyway.

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1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I'd be all for Gomez if he was on a short leash and basically in the Justin Ruggiano role (only plays against lefties and as a defensive replacement until Lagares gets back), but you know if they got him they wouldn't be able to help themselves thinking they could get the Gomez of old and give him nine million chances to fail.

re: Darling yeah I've meant to read/get that book too.  And yeah it probably is inevitable that teammates will fall out of touch over the years post-retirement, even good friends like Ron and Keith - everyone has their own lives post-baseball.  I actually remember reading in Keith's '85-86 memoir 'If At First' long ago how he and Ron were close too and how some reporter caused a rift between them early in '85 by twisting around something Keith said.  They probably don't need to socialize now cause they're around each other so much with the broadcast team anyway.

I'll say this much:  Lenny and Darling couldn't come off more differently.  Lenny is classic white trash, in every sense...in my employer experience in dealing with them, nothing that happens to them is ever of their own doing or their own fault...it's always all of these crazy over-the-top stories as to why this sh!t keeps happening...they're ALWAYS victims.  No personal responsibility for poor choices or not taking control of their lives, ever...no, they really DID want to show up for work on time, but then this happened and that happened, blah blah blah.  I've given a few of this ilk multiple chances (I do like to give people a chance when no one else will...sometimes you actually unearth a real gem who not only turns himself around, but remains appreciative and loyal to you for giving him a shot), and it usually goes the way that I expect it will...they rarely last longer than a few months, tops, and it's more "Oh whoa as me" when they're canned (despite repeated warnings to pull it together).  Lenny couldn't have sounded more like some of my ex-employees with some of his "It's really everyone else" drivel. 

Though Darling comes from a blue-collar, working-class background, he's clearly much more refined in every way as a person.  It's funny...if he had carried a lot less cerebral baggage, he might've been even better (his Met career was quite solid overall).  One thing about Lenny is that he was actually a pretty smart ballplayer (surprisingly so), but had this raw "Let me at 'em, I just wanna play and hit!" mentality that served him very well in big games.  Darling was plagued by deep thoughts and too many "What ifs" on the mound.  Lenny was fearless in the big moments...he did have a knack.    

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Darling is an intellectual and a caring individual. It's not surprising at all that he didn't really get along with the bunch of tyrants that made up that team. I bet he and Piazza would have got along very well. I really enjoy listening to him on game. Keith Hernandez was my favorite player from the 80's. He's an incredibly intelligent baseball guy and really would have made a great tactical manager. However, he probably want to be the fvck out of these sorry douche bags that call themselves mlbers these days. The MLB is a ridiculously watered down league right now. I can see why they are talking about shortening the games...

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56 minutes ago, capo said:

Darling is an intellectual and a caring individual. It's not surprising at all that he didn't really get along with the bunch of tyrants that made up that team. I bet he and Piazza would have got along very well. I really enjoy listening to him on game. Keith Hernandez was my favorite player from the 80's. He's an incredibly intelligent baseball guy and really would have made a great tactical manager. However, he probably want to be the fvck out of these sorry douche bags that call themselves mlbers these days. The MLB is a ridiculously watered down league right now. I can see why they are talking about shortening the games...

Did you read Piazza's book?  If not, check it out...it's pretty good.  By his own admission, he could be kind of prickly and a bit of a moody d*ck at times (he admits he has some faults)...not saying that he and Darling wouldn't have gotten along as teammates, but the fact that both could be kind of standoff-ish with others makes it seem a little less likely.  The one event that kind of hurt Piazza (in the eyes of some players) was when he didn't fight Clemens in the 2000 World Series (the infamous "I thought it was the ball!" splintered bat incident where Clemens appeared to throw a piece of Piazza's broken bat at him as he ran down the first base line).  In later confrontations (like with Mota), he heard "Why didn't you go after Clemens?" more than once.  It comes across in Piazza's book that, despite his somewhat menacing appearance and power stroke, that he really wasn't a physical or confrontational guy...I don't think he really wanted any part of that stuff. 

I like Darling and Hernandez a lot as commentators.  Keith can be a little too holier-than-thou at times (I watched him and he didn't always hustle, though he was the best defensive first baseman I've ever seen, and clearly one of the most intellectual players ever to play for sure).  I would imagine a guy like Keith would probably take some offense to the state of the game today.  For one, as we all know, EVERYONE in the booth can't stand the replays and some of the rule changes (like a catcher blocking the plate or 2nd-base takeouts), and in the case of replays, this is clearly a double-edged sword...what is maddening is that incorrect calls that are obviously wrong within one or two viewing angles take WAY too long to get overturned.  But as we see, the damned never-held-accountable umps fvck up so many calls (even clear-as-day ones) that this system is needed. 

And Keith has to despise this new "Ks are OK, no big deal" crap (Lenny hates this too, about the modern game, for what that's worth).  Keith struck out here and there (once every 8.45 plate appearances for his career...he walked once every 7.99 plate appearances), but like most good hitters in his day, he became a different hitter with two strikes on him.  Players today don't do that...they just keep on taking big empty swings...no thought to manufacturing a run or making contact for a productive out.  And the funny thing about this "new" approach, is that it's not leading to more offense.  Some of the dropoff is obviously shift-related, and you can even argue that amphetamines being banned are leading to more tired bats and diminished performance, but now you've got douches like Duda and others who don't make any attempt to adjust when the shift is used against them...nope, I'll just keep hitting right into it.  I think more guys back in the day would've taken it upon themselves to hit the other way. 

Keith must watch this Met offense, which does NOTHING well (except hit solo home runs or an occasional big dinger), and want to puke.  It's the opposite of everything he represented as a ballplayer.  

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11 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

What a fall from grace for Gomez, huh? A year ago we were on the verge of moving Flores and Wheeler for him. Thank goodness the Mets nixed that deal. 

The Mets might still have Fulmer (the ONLY good thing about a possible alternate timeline), but yeah, 2015 would have had a MUCH different feel to it (no playoffs or WS appearance).  The irony is that Wheeler would still be out of action, and Flores is what he is...though the return on Gomez obviously would've been awful, it's not like 2016 Wheeler and 2016 Flores (based on what we've seen here) would've been so awesome that we'd be completely crushed watching them with the Brewers. 

But we know the facts:  the Mets NEEDED to have a successful season and Sandy NEEDED to prove once and for all that he wasn't going through the motions and actually gave a damn about improving the team...and could make that big deal if need be.  It was the Cespedes trade that allowed that to happen.  And I admit it...at the time of the deal, I wanted Gomez over Cespedes. 

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I preferred Gomez to Cespedes as well.

Gomez was having a down year, sure, but he was one of the best players in the game in 2013 and 2014 and came with another year of control (I didn't like Cespedes because the Mets were something like 3 or 4 games behind Washington, so I wanted a 2016-controlled player). Nobody could've really predicted he'd fall off a cliff like this, although I'm sure the medicals that spooked the Mets out of the deal have played some kind of a role in this meltdown. 

Cespedes, on the other hand, was having a pretty great year but the track record suggested he'd regress in the second half.... but instead, like Gomez, nobody could've predicted what happened next (Cespedes turning into a complete monster).

 

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4 minutes ago, nmigliore said:

I preferred Gomez to Cespedes as well.

Gomez was having a down year, sure, but he was one of the best players in the game in 2013 and 2014 and came with another year of control (I didn't like Cespedes because the Mets were something like 3 or 4 games behind Washington, so I wanted a 2016-controlled player). Nobody could've really predicted he'd fall off a cliff like this, although I'm sure the medicals that spooked the Mets out of the deal have played some kind of a role in this meltdown. 

Cespedes, on the other hand, was having a pretty great year but the track record suggested he'd regress in the second half.... but instead, like Gomez, nobody could've predicted what happened next (Cespedes turning into a complete monster).

Yep...at the time the deal was made, I liked Gomez being under control for another year...I thought Cespedes was as good as gone by the end of the season (and if he was inclined to sign with the highest bidder, he would've been.  And Sandy thought so too; hence, the reason De Aza was signed in the first place).  I also never thought Cespedes would perform so above and beyond his career norms here.  He has a .923 OB+SLG as a Met. 

That being said, it's still nerve-wracking to hook your trailer to him long-term...he seems like a major PITA waiting to come out. 

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3-0 against Thor, about to get swept by the D-Backs. I was almost kidding about pitchers starting to steal on us but not entirely :lol:

Alderson either has to fire Terry now or go the other way and sell what you can still get through waivers. They either need to try the final thing they can try to spark life into this corpse or just shut off the life support now.

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Another meh outing from overrated Syndergaard.  Just shut him and Matz down already and get the spurs taken care of...I don't care if the Mets somehow stage a comeback and win this game.  Both continue to underwhelm damn near every chance they get these days.  I can live with Ynoa and possibly Gsellman getting a look up here (even if the results aren't pretty).  Chances are these guys will have to step in for an injured starter if they're still in the organization next year.

Like '7' has said...it clearly wasn't meant to be this season.  The baseball gods don't want it to happen...as such, I'll live with the Village Idiot being the manager through the end of the year, as it doesn't matter anymore who manages the team for the balance of this season.  Start making plans for 2017.  And if one of the young arms has to go in a deal for a young big bat, so be it. 

And sorry Sandy, we know you traded for Bruce to keep the Mets relevant for 2016, but that was a stupid deal.  Maybe now you'll realize that a team full of low avg/meh OB%/high K/occasional pop guys (the ONLY kind of hitter you seem to bring in, with rare exceptions) is not the way to build an offense.  Change it up already. 

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And one other thing...2017 better not be "2016, Part Deux".  There need to be some serious friggin' changes.  Sadly it will be "IF d'Arnaud can stay healthy and hit like he did in 2015...IF Wright can recover from his surgery and stay on the field...IF IF IF..."  That's all this franchise does.  I should prepare myself for many of the same zilches being here next season.  Land of Endless Opportunity.

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And how fitting...Niese officially shoveling dirt on the grave site that has become the Mets 2016 season.  What the hell, throw him in the rotation too as a Syndergaard or Matz replacement. 

 

Hey Sandy...nice fvcking deadline.  Maybe now you can write an epilogue to your "How I took sole credit for revitalizing the Mets" pulp that no one bought.

Hope the poor profusely sweating fans (whichever ones remains) boo the crap out of this bunch of stiffs...boo them right off the field. 

Where's Lou Brown when you need him?

 

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2012:  Henrique...it's over!

 

2016:  Jon Niese...it's over!

Some funny tweets here:

https://twitter.com/search?q=jon+Niese&ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^search

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Sure I could see Piazza being a little nose in the air type. No question. He lived an upscale childhood and so he had different expectations for life. Kind of like what you were talking about with the WT earlier. What he qualified as WT may have been a bigger bracket. I  don't think Darling would have necessarily looked down on people like that more just not wanting to be around them and that's why I figured he would have liked Piazza. I bet Darling despised Dykstra off the field but could appreciate his hard-nose play on the field. 

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Pirates won today which vaults them ahead of the Mets, who are now chasing THREE teams for the last wild card spot and sit 3 GB (which will be 3.5 if the Cards win tonight). The Rockies are even closing the gap on us - a win today would put them 1.5 behind us. :(

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Re:  Terry's post-game rant...whatever, sounds great, but he's still an idiot.  And no one here is ever held accountable, so I don't expect Terry "I do what my players tell me" Collins to suddenly change his demeanor now.

Doesn't matter where they are in the standings...this team is absolute toast.  Especially with Matz and Syndergaard being mediocre right now. 

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Supposedly Herrera has had shoulder issues that have been bothering him for two seasons now.  He's been in and out of the lineup since the trade that sent him to the Reds. 

http://redsminorleagues.com/2016/08/11/dilson-herrera-still-mia-notes/

Probably mishandled by the Mets...does that come as any great shock to anyone?

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41 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Supposedly Herrera has had shoulder issues that have been bothering him for two seasons now.  He's been in and out of the lineup since the trade that sent him to the Reds. 

http://redsminorleagues.com/2016/08/11/dilson-herrera-still-mia-notes/

Probably mishandled by the Mets...does that come as any great shock to anyone?

Maybe we can undo the trade the way the Padres did with Colin Rea :P

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Just shut him down for this season.  No reason to push him at this point.

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Verrett doesnt need to start another game for this club. He's awful and overmatched and overexposed in the starter role. Give someone else a shot. Anybody else.

He may have value in the pen but he has been terrible of late. Absolutely terrible.

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