Kovalchuk removed from SKA after 1 Playoff Game

[hit the post]

WHO ?

[Bullshockey247]

4 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah, I would like him back on a low cost short term deal, basically because of what he could bring to the team in terms of production and how desperate we are for scoring, BUT, of course there are concerns with how well he'll hold up physically, if he's capable of playing heavy minutes each night over a long season, and whether or not age has caught up to him while maturity may have stayed the same.

And despite all of that, pros and cons aside, there's no real reason to think he'd come back or be allowed back.  There's no way all 30 teams would agree to that.  More than likely several would have a problem with it, but it's almost a guarantee that at least 1 would fvck up the unanimous vote that would be needed.

 

EDIT:  Oh and for the record, I didn't see anything wrong with that hit in the video clip.  Didn't look to me like he was scared or anything, I just think he was, rightfully so, trying to avoid a hit, and actually got clipped on the skates and tripped. 

I think it was a combination of losing the puck at his own blueline and then coasting back to the D zone and getting completely lost.  He should have been covering the guy that scored, not staring at the puck

[hit the post]

 You really wouldn't think a player who kicked Management,his team mates and the Devils fans is face would still be a topic of desire....He's gone....Stay gone .

[MadDog2020]

 You really wouldn't think a player who kicked Management,his team mates and the Devils fans is face would still be a topic of desire....He's gone....Stay gone .

Yeah I don't get it... Not to mention he's finished. He's a shell of a shell of his 2012 self.

[NJDevs4978]

2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Yeah I don't get it... Not to mention he's finished. He's a shell of a shell of his 2012 self.

Devil fans just have such a fascination with this guy cause we never acquire the big-name flashy player who's marketed as an individual star as opposed to just someone that's another part of the team.  People make his tenure out to be much better than it actually was because of that and the success of the middle season (the only one with a healthy Parise) and even his 2012 didn't compare with Elias's best years.

It's funny how people forgive the Russian merc for walking out on a signed contract (and overlook what a jackass he's been since leaving) and hold it against Zach and everyone else who leaves as a FA.

[mfitz804]

We're a team that's running an offense that consists of guys like Jacob Josefson, Tyler Kennedy, a less good Gionta, Tootoo, and Farnham. And Zajac who is "not a numbers guy". Our top guys are a dude who is always hurt, a guy having a career year, and a guy we picked off the scrap heap, also having a career year.  Any help on offense would be well received.

Whether Kovy has anything left in the tank, I don't know. But if he does and he were available cheap, I'd think it's worth consideration.

Of course, there are plenty of people who did not walk out on their contract that could be considered ahead of him. 

[Jerzey]

Can't speak for everyone who wants him back but I think being able to acquire an optimistic 20-25 goals a season without having to give up any assets is a win. I don't really care about the history at this point, we need all of the goals we can get.

I wouldn't go crazy on the contract though and as I said before if he turns it down no big deal. 

At this point would someone like Stempniak be any worse anyway? 

Edited February 23, 2016 by Jerzey

[NJDevs4978]

Even if you take out all the other stuff which is impossible in the real world, where are you playing him, RW?  I'm sure that'd be something the merc's dying to do again - play for an organization he has no attachment to (ownership/front office/coaches/most players are all gone from when he was here) at a position he hated.  And if you play him at LW then you have to shoehorn one of Cammalleri/Blandisi/Boucher over to C/RW where there's no evidence any of them can play well there.

Edited February 23, 2016 by NJDevs4978

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

Can't speak for everyone who wants him back but I think being able to acquire an optimistic 20-25 goals a season without having to give up any assets is a win. I don't really care about the history at this point, we need all of the goals we can get.

I wouldn't go crazy on the contract though and as I said before if he turns it down no big deal. 

At this point would someone like Stempniak be any worse anyway? 

Stempniak is leading our team in scoring at $850,000 a year. I'd take three more of those. 

[nessus]

 

5 hours ago, hit the post said:

 You really wouldn't think a player who kicked Management,his team mates and the Devils fans is face would still be a topic of desire....He's gone....Stay gone .

5 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Yeah I don't get it... Not to mention he's finished. He's a shell of a shell of his 2012 self.

With the way things turned out, maybe it wasn't a kick in the face. He hasn't been crushing the KHL since he left the Devils. Honestly, he would be hated for being half the player he used to be with 10 more years to go on that contract.

[Marshall]

I love/loved the player, but I also think that what he is now and what he'll be in a few years time might not be a very good thing for NJ.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Devil fans just have such a fascination with this guy cause we never acquire the big-name flashy player who's marketed as an individual star as opposed to just someone that's another part of the team.  People make his tenure out to be much better than it actually was because of that and the success of the middle season (the only one with a healthy Parise) and even his 2012 didn't compare with Elias's best years.

It's funny how people forgive the Russian merc for walking out on a signed contract (and overlook what a jackass he's been since leaving) and hold it against Zach and everyone else who leaves as a FA.

Re:  his tenure...year-by-year, it can be boiled down to this:

2010, after the deal:  good eye-test numbers, but didn't seem comfortable, and we saw how raw he was in some aspects of his game.

2010-11:  Awful start, and supposedly behind the scenes was already showing unhappiness being in NJ (despite the team bending over backwards to keep him, paying a steep price on multiple fronts).  Lemaire takes over as coach and is able to start teaching the finer points of the game to Kovy, who has a much better second half and is showing signs of overall improvement.

2011-12:  Very good year as Kovy's all-around game is at its best as a Devil.  The offensive numbers are a little misleading due to Kovy getting insane amounts of ice-time, but not only does Kovy play well for most of this season, he genuinely seems to be embracing being a Devil, and seems primed to become one of the true leaders of his team.

2012-13:  Apparently has to be dragged back to NJ from SKA.  Numbers don't look bad, but he is clearly not the same guy he was in 2011-12.  With his heart no longer into being a Devil, nothing else really matters.  With him leaving several years of security (and several millions in cash) on the table, it's obvious he wants out of NJ very badly.  The reasons don't matter...he wants out, end of story.

Re:  the bolded, I agree, I don't get the fascination/gloss over everything attitude towards Kovy at all.  With some fans, you can list all of the "yeah buts" (and there are so MANY "yeah buts" when it comes to Kovy), and all you'll get "But we need offense, he can help!"  Based on what?  When a team trying to repeat as champs of their second-tier league decides they're better off by NOT playing Kovy, what does that tell you? 

From SI:

http://www.si.com/nhl/2016/02/22/ilya-kovalchuk-benched-russia-ska-st-petersburg-nhl

The news broke Monday morning that the star of SKA St. Petersburg will be benched for Tuesday’s playoff match against Lokomotiv Yaroslavl because of “his poor performance.” It's an issue that Igor Eronko of the Russian newspaper Sport-Express said has been brewing for “a long time,” but came to a head after his uninspired performance in SKA’s 3–2 loss to Lokotmotiv in the series opener.

The 32-year-old winger has 16 goals and 49 points in 51 games this season, his third since returning to Russia to play in the KHL. Just four of those goals have come in his past 18 games however, and each of those came against teams that failed to make the playoffs.

That’s not what what coach Sergei Zubov was expecting from the player believed to be the highest paid in the KHL. And the concern for Zubov is that one bad apple is contaminating the whole team.

No thanks.

[Jerzey]

12 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Stempniak is leading our team in scoring at $850,000 a year. I'd take three more of those. 

Definitely, but acquiring them for free is where it gets tricky. 

[BostonNala370]

Just for the record I don't want him back at any cost to us.

[MantaRay]

Are we really having this conversation?

Here is a guy that never wanted to be a NJ Devil in the first place.   He signed a big deal to play here because no one else wanted him, and then quickly reneged because he could get more $ playing in the KHL.

Now that the KHL is folding, and he is not making the $ he once did, he wants to come back?  The heck with that.   He isn't going to take a discount to play in the NHL.  He is a diva.

We are going in the right direction, we don't need to make the same mistake twice. 

 

 

[roomtemp]

The only reason to not want Kovalchuk back on a reasonable deal is emotion. Now he hasn't been breaking KHL scoring records but neither did Jagr during his exile and he became a good NHL player again

Jagr was comping off a 71 point in 82 games (25 goals, 46 assists) in the 07-08 NHL season. And I remember WFAN fans complaining about him taking nights off during the regular season that year. Not that they wouldn't have wanted him back but I remember that.

08-09: 55 gp, 25g, 28a for 53 pts
09-10: 51 gp, 22g, 22a for 42 pts
10-11: 49 gp, 19g, 32a for 51 pts

His come back season in the NHL
11-12: 73 gp, 19g, 35a, for 54 pts

Kovalchuk has 45gp, 16 and 24 for 40. 54 gp, 25 and 30 for 55 and this year in 51 16 and 33 for 49 points.

[DevsMan84]

I wonder if most of these fans who are begging and dreaming for Kovy to come back would be in the same boat if the news didn't come out in the middle of a 3-game losing streak and instead in the middle of a 3-game winning streak.  I would say a few but not as many.  Most of the drum beating I se/hear are coming from younger fans who are thirsty for a "Superstar" player to be on the Devils as they feel it is something we are lacking.

I don't hate the guy, but I don't want any part of him.  He is only going to decline more and is unreliable.  That and it's a been there, done that feeling I have with him.  Time to move on from him.

[MantaRay]

Its not emotional it financial and long term success driven.

 I don't want to pay $8-10 million a year on a broken down 40 point player who can only play half of the ice.   Not a good role model for the younger kids who need to learn how to win.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, roomtemp said:

The only reason to not want Kovalchuk back on a reasonable deal is emotion. Now he hasn't been breaking KHL scoring records but neither did Jagr during his exile and he became a good NHL player again

Jagr was comping off a 71 point in 82 games (25 goals, 46 assists) in the 07-08 NHL season. And I remember WFAN fans complaining about him taking nights off during the regular season that year. Not that they wouldn't have wanted him back but I remember that.

08-09: 55 gp, 25g, 28a for 53 pts
09-10: 51 gp, 22g, 22a for 42 pts
10-11: 49 gp, 19g, 32a for 51 pts

His come back season in the NHL
11-12: 73 gp, 19g, 35a, for 54 pts

Kovalchuk has 45gp, 16 and 24 for 40. 54 gp, 25 and 30 for 55 and this year in 51 16 and 33 for 49 points.

re:  the bolded, not true.  There's a lot of compelling reasons to not want him back that aren't tied one bit to emotions.  I've already detailed what mine are, and others have also presented fair cases as to why it wouldn't make much sense. 

I wonder if Dino Costa will try to beg people to pay attention to him again with some more Kovy commentary. 

[roomtemp]

39 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

re:  the bolded, not true.  There's a lot of compelling reasons to not want him back that aren't tied one bit to emotions.  I've already detailed what mine are, and others have also presented fair cases as to why it wouldn't make much sense. 

I wonder if Dino Costa will try to beg people to pay attention to him again with some more Kovy commentary. 

Devils are not going to be in a cap hell soon where a two year deal for even mid level money will destroy us. If he'd come back for a year or two deal at nothing more then 2 million or so with intensives to bump it up or something like that then its worth the gamble.  If oil prices were high and Russia wasn't a world pariah I'd question the owner or Kovalchuk wanting to get out of that contract but from the outside looking in I think its worth the short gamble if it comes to that.

We can debate what a reasonable contract but if you say at a vet minimum or a little over he's not worth bringing back in the short term then I think its just emotional.

Edited February 23, 2016 by roomtemp

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 minutes ago, roomtemp said:

Devils are not going to be in a cap hell soon where a two year deal for even mid level money will destroy us. If he'd come back for a year or two deal at nothing more then 2 million or so with intensives to bump it up or something like that then its worth the gamble.  If oil prices were high and Russia wasn't a world pariah I'd question the owner or Kovalchuk wanting to get out of that contract but from the outside looking in I think its worth the short gamble if it comes to that.

We can debate what a reasonable contract but if you say at a vet minimum or a little over he's not worth bringing back in the short term then I think its just emotional.

So the fact that he bailed on the Devils once before doesn't concern you?  Or the fact that his current team is down on him and feels like it is better off without him in the PLAYOFFS is worth brushing over? 

This is all hypothetical at best obviously (I don't think he's ever coming back here and don't think Shero's given it a second of his time...this is just something to BS about), but suppose he ever actually somehow found his way onto the Devils again...you don't think he might play 20-25 games, score 2-3 goals and look like a shadow of himself, and say "Screw this, too hard, not feeling this, I quit"?  There's more compelling evidence to suggest that could happen over him coming here and scoring 20-25 goals and being a cost-effective bargain. 

I think just ignoring all of the things that could go wrong (based on very fair analysis) and not taking the time to take a step back and examine the particulars and look at this logically is being emotional.  It's not even can he be a remote semblance of what he once was...it's does he even have the sustained drive to want it badly enough not to waste everyone's time? 

[Triumph]

Kovalchuk is not 35 years old and therefore his contract could not contain incentives.  He is also not coming back on a reasonable deal - there will always be huge money for him in Russia so long as he wants to play.

[ghdi]

While I do not want Kovalchuk back on the Devils, I find the amount of vitriol being spewed towards him this thread completely over the top and lacking any sort of meaningful analysis. ARRRRR HE LEFT US DIE KOVY DIE. You're all buying what you were sold.

Its no coincidence that Kovalchuk leaves July 11th and the deal to sell the team to Harris is completed a month later. Its blatantly obvious that Kovy's contract was a hindrance in the sale negotiations/finalizing due to the amount of real salary it was going to cost ownership. Kovy also expressed that he missed Russia a year prior to his departure. IMO he did us a favor by leaving. We got out of that absurd deal with a clearly declining player which would be the definition of an albatross at this point and arguably one of the worst contracts in the entire league. The Devils had a way out with Kovalchuk since he desired to take an insane deal from a team in his home country. It's still a business at the end of the day. The real problem was the aftermath with Lou and the draft pick stuff, but we still ended up getting the pick back which was clearly the angle Lou and Co. decided to go for. Kovy leaves the country and takes the heat. Lou played it as well as he could. The real ire should be on Vanderbeek for some of his decision making near the end of his time owning the team which is largely the reason we are where we are now.

I have no animosity towards Kovalchuk whatsoever at this point. I can't even imagine the make up of this team today if we're still holding that contract and what we'd even have accomplished with him on the team. We're in a better position because of the situation.

As to him coming back, no. We're not in a position where he's going to be a major help to this team going forward and he is still going to be an investment for any NHL team simply based on name recognition. On another hand, I almost would like to see him come back for a season or two to vindicate himself in the eyes of a lot of our fanbase like Gomez was able to do, but at the same time I don't even care that much. Kovy was a risk worth taking at the time and the situation manifested itself that ended up being a bit disappointing in all respects. sh!t happens. 

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by ghdi

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, ghdi said:

While I do not want Kovalchuk back on the Devils, I find the amount of vitriol being spewed towards him this thread completely over the top and lacking any sort of meaningful analysis. ARRRRR HE LEFT US DIE KOVY DIE. You're all buying what you were sold.

Point out all the examples of vitriol being spewed towards Kovy.  Feel free to quote them all.  I'm not really seeing any blind hatred for him here. 

[NJDevils1214]

Correct me if I am wrong, but for Lokotmotiv to beat a team like SKA would be an upset no? It was only a few years ago that they lost their entire team in a plane crash.