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2016 NHL Trade Deadline Thread


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26 minutes ago, hit the post said:

Clearly a Norris Trophy winner for sure.....Yeah........ he's so good he was sat the last few games  (thank god)

Severson also was healthy scratched.

15 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Gelinas - so good he's only skated in 36 games...

Larsson also only got limited playing time his first few seasons.

11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

He also leads in the following metrics:

Allowing guys to score by passing the puck to the wrong team: 100

Being out of position: 150

Forgetting to play defense at all: 200

Blowing goats: 999,999,999,999,999

He's no worse than Merrill.  In fact he blows Merrill out of the water.

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I'm not a stat guy, I go by what I see. Gelinas sucks. Every time he is on the ice I'm afraid. There was a stretch a coupe weeks ago where he was smack in the middle of every goal against we had. I don't know what stat covers constantly being out of position. If I just stand there and a guy goes around me, or the opposition scores a goal off a rebound because I'm standing there facing the wrong direction, how does that show up in stats? 

By no means am I a Merrill fan, he blows almost as many goats as Gelinas. But honestly, if Gelinas didn't have that ridiculous slap shot, he'd be in the AHL. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I'm not a stat guy, I go by what I see. Gelinas sucks. Every time he is on the ice I'm afraid. There was a stretch a coupe weeks ago where he was smack in the middle of every goal against we had. I don't know what stat covers constantly being out of position. If I just stand there and a guy goes around me, or the opposition scores a goal off a rebound because I'm standing there facing the wrong direction, how does that show up in stats? 

By no means am I a Merrill fan, he blows almost as many goats as Gelinas. But honestly, if Gelinas didn't have that ridiculous slap shot, he'd be in the AHL. 

My eyes see something completely different.  Gelinas makes a lot of mistakes, but he more than makes up for them.  If you focus on everything he does instead of just what he does in defensive zone, you should see that is he a valuable player.  He's not a trainwreck defensively.  When Gelinas is on the ice, the Devils get more scoring chances FOR than scoring chances AGAINST.  He's got plenty of warts, but he covers those warts up.  He brings far more positive than he does negative.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Brown said:

My eyes see something completely different.  Gelinas makes a lot of mistakes, but he more than makes up for them.  If you focus on everything he does instead of just what he does in defensive zone, you should see that is he a valuable player.  He's not a trainwreck defensively.  When Gelinas is on the ice, the Devils get more scoring chances FOR than scoring chances AGAINST.  He's got plenty of warts, but he covers those warts up.  He brings far more positive than he does negative.

Well that's why Al Gore invented the Internet, so everyone can express their differing opinions.

I think Gelinas is a total train wreck defensively, he makes a ton of mistakes, and a lot of them are costly. He doesn't seem capable of stopping anyone, he constantly pinches at inappropriate times, looking for goals, causing odd man rushes the other way. 

But, he foes have that big slap shot and big slap shots from the point do create opportunities when they hit the net. If he could be a little better defensively and continue the huge shot, he'd be an asset. 

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33 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Well that's why Al Gore invented the Internet, so everyone can express their differing opinions.

I think Gelinas is a total train wreck defensively, he makes a ton of mistakes, and a lot of them are costly. He doesn't seem capable of stopping anyone, he constantly pinches at inappropriate times, looking for goals, causing odd man rushes the other way. 

But, he foes have that big slap shot and big slap shots from the point do create opportunities when they hit the net. If he could be a little better defensively and continue the huge shot, he'd be an asset. 

I mean the term "trainwreck" is a loose term.  But if we're gonna call him a "trainwreck", there are a lot of defensemen who are considered good who are also a trainwreck.  Gelinas is the only defensemen on the team who's not really a good puck handler.  That right there is the problem.  Hynes also preaches puck control to his players.  In that regard, Gelinas isn't a good fit.

However, Gelinas still has proven to be an asset today, and in the past.  We get more scoring chances with him on the ice than when he's not on the ice.  And the scoring chances given up with him on the ice is still less than the scoring chances for.

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2 hours ago, Mike Brown said:

NOTE: All the bolded names are the guys who have above 50% O-Zone starts.

Corsi Differential

  1. Gelinas: +30
  2. Schlemko: -25
  3. Helgeson: -29
  4. Sevorson: -44
  5. Merrill: -65
  6. Larsson: -140
  7. Moore: -162
  8. Greene: -198

CF%Rel

  1. Gelinas: 7.11
  2. Schlemko: 3.66
  3. Sevorson: 2.17
  4. Merrill: -0.06
  5. Helgeson: -1.22
  6. Larsson: -1.46
  7. Moore: -3.77
  8. Greene: -4.31

Fenwick Differential

  1. Gelinas: +26
  2. Helgeson: -11
  3. Schlemko: -13
  4. Sevorson: -27
  5. Merrill: -45
  6. Larsson: -72
  7. Greene: -109
  8. Moore: -113

Shot Differential

  1. Gelinas: +22
  2. Schlemko: -4
  3. Helgeson: -16
  4. Merrill: -33
  5. Severson: -44
  6. Larsson: -52
  7. Greene: -70
  8. Moore: -92

As you can see, Gelinas doesn't just simply lead our defensemen in these metrics, he BLOWS THEM AWAY!  And you can't just point to O-Zone starts either.  Merrill has a 60% O-Zone start%, and isn't even close to being in the positive in any of these categories.  Gelinas actually takes his O-Zone starts and takes advantage of them.

So let me try to explain you why this is not that simple. And once again show why looking at numbers doesnt tell you the whole story unless you look at the whole picture and understand everything.

So you're comparing results here. And they are showing that his corsi is favorable, sweet. You do realize that he's getting those "results" being sheltered? He's matched up against bottom lines, playing the PP and taking offensive zone starts just to take him away from the defensive zone.

You can't just go and look at his corsi and compare with green and larsson who plays night after night against top competition. I mean, cmon lol

 

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I'm not a stat guy, I go by what I see. Gelinas sucks. Every time he is on the ice I'm afraid. There was a stretch a coupe weeks ago where he was smack in the middle of every goal against we had. I don't know what stat covers constantly being out of position. If I just stand there and a guy goes around me, or the opposition scores a goal off a rebound because I'm standing there facing the wrong direction, how does that show up in stats? 

By no means am I a Merrill fan, he blows almost as many goats as Gelinas. But honestly, if Gelinas didn't have that ridiculous slap shot, he'd be in the AHL. 

My eyes see something completely different.  Gelinas makes a lot of mistakes, but he more than makes up for them.  If you focus on everything he does instead of just what he does in defensive zone, you should see that is he a valuable player.  He's not a trainwreck defensively.  When Gelinas is on the ice, the Devils get more scoring chances FOR than scoring chances AGAINST.  He's got plenty of warts, but he covers those warts up.  He brings far more positive than he does negative.

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice: get your eyes checked.

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26 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

So let me try to explain you why this is not that simple. And once again show why looking at numbers doesnt tell you the whole story unless you look at the whole picture and understand everything.

So you're comparing results here. And they are showing that his corsi is favorable, sweet. You do realize that he's getting those "results" being sheltered? He's matched up against bottom lines, playing the PP and taking offensive zone starts just to take him away from the defensive zone.

You can't just go and look at his corsi and compare with green and larsson who plays night after night against top competition. I mean, cmon lol

One problem, is those stats are 5 on 5 stats.  And being matched up against bottom lines can't be a negative because somebody has to be.  It's dumb to use that as a negative.

22 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice: get your eyes checked.

My eyes are fine.  Fact is, I see everything positive he does.  And the negatives do NOT outweigh those positives.

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18 minutes ago, Mike Brown said:

One problem, is those stats are 5 on 5 stats.  And being matched up against bottom lines can't be a negative because somebody has to be.  It's dumb to use that as a negative.

My eyes are fine.  Fact is, I see everything positive he does.  And the negatives do NOT outweigh those positives.

Hopefully another GM sees it this way.

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3 hours ago, Mike Brown said:

NOTE: All the bolded names are the guys who have above 50% O-Zone starts.

Corsi Differential

  1. Gelinas: +30
  2. Schlemko: -25
  3. Helgeson: -29
  4. Sevorson: -44
  5. Merrill: -65
  6. Larsson: -140
  7. Moore: -162
  8. Greene: -198

CF%Rel

  1. Gelinas: 7.11
  2. Schlemko: 3.66
  3. Sevorson: 2.17
  4. Merrill: -0.06
  5. Helgeson: -1.22
  6. Larsson: -1.46
  7. Moore: -3.77
  8. Greene: -4.31

Fenwick Differential

  1. Gelinas: +26
  2. Helgeson: -11
  3. Schlemko: -13
  4. Sevorson: -27
  5. Merrill: -45
  6. Larsson: -72
  7. Greene: -109
  8. Moore: -113

Shot Differential

  1. Gelinas: +22
  2. Schlemko: -4
  3. Helgeson: -16
  4. Merrill: -33
  5. Severson: -44
  6. Larsson: -52
  7. Greene: -70
  8. Moore: -92

As you can see, Gelinas doesn't just simply lead our defensemen in these metrics, he BLOWS THEM AWAY!  And you can't just point to O-Zone starts either.  Merrill has a 60% O-Zone start%, and isn't even close to being in the positive in any of these categories.  Gelinas actually takes his O-Zone starts and takes advantage of them.

Wouldn't it be awesome if Yzerman lurked this messageboard, and was obsessed with stats without any context at all.  Hell, he'd probably trade Drouin and a first round pick for Gelinas, considering how much better Gelinas must be than Larsson,Greene and Severson and by such a wide margin.  

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40 minutes ago, Mike Brown said:

One problem, is those stats are 5 on 5 stats.  And being matched up against bottom lines can't be a negative because somebody has to be.  It's dumb to use that as a negative.

Haha i get it. You're either trolling... or CLEARLY clueless of how to understand those numbers (numbers that can even be deceiving even for people understanding them). Well based on what you're saying anyway.

So i'll just let it be from now on. 

And just to be sure... in case you're not trolling... You do NOT understand how to read those stats. That's a fact, not my opinion. If you've been serious with your posts here. Well that's that, you're simply wrong.

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2 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

Hopefully another GM sees it this way.

If they're into analytics, they will.

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Wouldn't it be awesome if Yzerman lurked this messageboard, and was obsessed with stats without any context at all.  Hell, he'd probably trade Drouin and a first round pick for Gelinas, considering how much better Gelinas must be than Larsson,Greene and Severson and by such a wide margin.  

Never did I say he was better than Greene and Larsson.

1 hour ago, Triumph said:

Gelinas hasn't shown any signs of being good before this.  Hopefully he's gone by Monday so we won't have to have this debate anymore.  Friedman reported he is definitely on the block.

He was good for that time when Merrill was hurt.  That was like a good 10 game stretch he was good.

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

Haha i get it. You're either trolling... or CLEARLY clueless of how to understand those numbers (numbers that can even be deceiving even for people understanding them). Well based on what you're saying anyway.

So i'll just let it be from now on. 

And just to be sure... in case you're not trolling... You do NOT understand how to read those stats. That's a fact, not my opinion. If you've been serious with your posts here. Well that's that, you're simply wrong.

I know how these numbers work.  The fact is those particular stats don't take into account quality of competition.  There are ways to adjust for that, but it wasn't at all necessary for my point.  Fact is just because he gets sheltered minutes isn't a negative.  Not everyone can be top pairing defensemen.

So tell me.  Explain those numbers to me since you're the expert.

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5 hours ago, Martyisth3b3st said:

sounds like you just gave the forum a perfect example as to why your advanced statistics aren't worth half a sh!t.

Shots are advanced stats?

5 hours ago, Triumph said:

Gelinas is still prone to the huge mistake and I don't see where he makes up for it at even strength.  My suspicion is that it's partly his own shots that's making up the difference, but I don't know why his numbers are where they are.  He's not good.

So what if he's prone to some mistakes.  You can have liabilities on the back end and still be ok.  He may be a liability, but he's still a good player.

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4 hours ago, Mike Brown said:

Shots are advanced stats?

So what if he's prone to some mistakes.  You can have liabilities on the back end and still be ok.  He may be a liability, but he's still a good player.

Looks like Mike Brown is morphing back into Mike Clown. 

Forget fan-based eye tests, stats, whatever...to me it's pretty simple.  If he was anywhere near as potentially beastly as you seem to think (and somehow see, though NO ONE ELSE with a working pair of eyes sees the same thing), then Hynes wouldn't keep scratching him.  If Shero thought Gelinas needed playing time to improve, he'd probably override his coach (GMs sometimes do that) and would force Hynes to play him.  I don't think Shero and Hynes are dummies...they know Gelinas' trade value has been hurt by his not being being on the ice, but at the same time, how many opportunities is he supposed to get?  Before this latest round of scratches, he was in the lineup for 10 straight games. 

Who knows...maybe part of Gelinas' struggles is that he responds horribly to tough love and needs a change of scenery...but I don't blame the Devils for handling him the way that they have.  Clearly they're seeing deficiencies on the ice and in practice that are making their decision to scratch him a pretty easy one.  I'll defer to them on this. 

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Gelinas gotta be the worst Dman on the team. I was fortunate to go the Bruins game in Jan and in the midst of watching Boston blow the Devils out of the water, 4-1, my dad and i watched the pathetic play of Gelly. Turnovers in his own zone, not taking a shot on the PP, and we watched him fall over his own feet getting turned around.  We werent the only ones to notice, people were voicing their displeasure with him by the end of the 2nd

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3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Looks like Mike Brown is morphing back into Mike Clown. 

Forget fan-based eye tests, stats, whatever...to me it's pretty simple.  If he was anywhere near as potentially beastly as you seem to think (and somehow see, though NO ONE ELSE with a working pair of eyes sees the same thing), then Hynes wouldn't keep scratching him.  If Shero thought Gelinas needed playing time to improve, he'd probably override his coach (GMs sometimes do that) and would force Hynes to play him.  I don't think Shero and Hynes are dummies...they know Gelinas' trade value has been hurt by his not being being on the ice, but at the same time, how many opportunities is he supposed to get?  Before this latest round of scratches, he was in the lineup for 10 straight games. 

Who knows...maybe part of Gelinas' struggles is that he responds horribly to tough love and needs a change of scenery...but I don't blame the Devils for handling him the way that they have.  Clearly they're seeing deficiencies on the ice and in practice that are making their decision to scratch him a pretty easy one.  I'll defer to them on this. 

I really can't go with coach's authority on this because I don't believe that coaches have a great grasp on who's playing well when it comes to the margins of the roster.  Take Schlemko, who has started virtually every game he's been here, but he was a 7th D for a lot of his career - he's already played more this season than he has in any previous season.

But I just don't see any evidence that Gelinas plays well or is responsible for the boost to his team.

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