NJDevs4978 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Shot differential says nothing about quality of shots given up (or quality of shots taken for that matter). Gelinas frequently gives up high quality chances playing protected minutes against lesser players. And this management team is supposedly very into advanced stats so they see those numbers too and still marganilize him so what does that tell you? Edited February 25, 2016 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadvlfan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 My crystal ball says: Not sure who's going the other way but: New Devils: one of Barclay Goodrow (SJ) Joe Colborne (Cal) or Drew Shore (CAL). Wouldn't be shocked if another baby Pen came our way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If Gelinas is so good, someone will surely give us their first round pick for him, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I still have a feeling Drouin is brought in here. I just hope it's not Severson going the other way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 7 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said: A defenseman who is a liability on defense is the opposite of a good player. Not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 6 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Looks like Mike Brown is morphing back into Mike Clown. Forget fan-based eye tests, stats, whatever...to me it's pretty simple. If he was anywhere near as potentially beastly as you seem to think (and somehow see, though NO ONE ELSE with a working pair of eyes sees the same thing), then Hynes wouldn't keep scratching him. If Shero thought Gelinas needed playing time to improve, he'd probably override his coach (GMs sometimes do that) and would force Hynes to play him. I don't think Shero and Hynes are dummies...they know Gelinas' trade value has been hurt by his not being being on the ice, but at the same time, how many opportunities is he supposed to get? Before this latest round of scratches, he was in the lineup for 10 straight games. Who knows...maybe part of Gelinas' struggles is that he responds horribly to tough love and needs a change of scenery...but I don't blame the Devils for handling him the way that they have. Clearly they're seeing deficiencies on the ice and in practice that are making their decision to scratch him a pretty easy one. I'll defer to them on this. The reason he's being scratched is the same reason Merrill, Severson, and Helgeson have been scratched. I don't blame Hynes for handling the kids the he has either. He has no other choice. He has to shuffle 4 defensemen when there's only 2 spots open. It's a tough spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said: Shot differential says nothing about quality of shots given up (or quality of shots taken for that matter). Gelinas frequently gives up high quality chances playing protected minutes against lesser players. And this management team is supposedly very into advanced stats so they see those numbers too and still marganilize him so what does that tell you? When Gelinas is on the ice, more high quality chances are created by the Devils than they give up. In fact Gelinas leads the team with a +13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 2 hours ago, mfitz804 said: If Gelinas is so good, someone will surely give us their first round pick for him, no? Because scouts actually have the ability to filter out the garbage which unfortunately this board can't seem to do. Although don't expect a 1st for him. 30 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said: I still have a feeling Drouin is brought in here. I just hope it's not Severson going the other way. I doubt he wouldn't be going the other way. I know RHD was their preference, and I know they're not gonna trade him for less than fair value. It's pretty much Severson or bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Obviously he has a plus shot differential, he never has any D starts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 17 minutes ago, Zubie#8 said: Obviously he has a plus shot differential, he never has any D starts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What about Merrill, Severson, Schlemko, and Helgeson? All of which have more O-Zone starts than D-Zone starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I do find possession metrics to be overrated, albeit still very useful information. Eric Gelinas doesn't just lead the d-core in these possession metrics. HE BLOWS THE REST OF THEM OUT OF THE WATER! And only a naive hockey fan would ignore them. I also want to make a point about O-Zone starts. O-Zone start% Gelinas: 67.5 Helgeson: 60.9 Schlemko: 60.4 Merrill: 58.9 Severson: 57.6 He's only getting 6.6% more O-Zone starts than the next guy. IN RECAP: Gelinas DOES destroy our defensemen in possession metrics while he DOES NOT destroy our defensemen in O-Zone start%. He merely just leads our D-Core in O-Zone start%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 On 2/24/2016 at 3:39 PM, Triumph said: 14 hours ago, Mike Brown said: 1 minute ago, Mike Brown said: I do find possession metrics to be overrated, albeit still very useful information. Eric Gelinas doesn't just lead the d-core in these possession metrics. HE BLOWS THE REST OF THEM OUT OF THE WATER! And only a naive hockey fan would ignore them. I also want to make a point about O-Zone starts. O-Zone start% Gelinas: 67.5 Helgeson: 60.9 Schlemko: 60.4 Merrill: 58.9 Severson: 57.6 He's only getting 6.6% more O-Zone starts than the next guy. IN RECAP: Gelinas DOES destroy our defensemen in possession metrics while he DOES NOT destroy our defensemen in O-Zone start%. He merely just leads our D-Core in O-Zone start%. This is pretty dishonest... the "next guy" is Seth Helgeson, who no one is mistaking for Scott Stevens. He's pretty much ten percent higher than Merrill, who is the guy you constantly compare him to. I think you would be well served by looking into the concept of statistical anomalies before you harp on this Gelinas fetish you seem to have any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Gelinas is terrible. I don't think he holds any value unless you package him with other players in a one player deal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 So Tampa will have scouts at the game tonight. Drouin speculation is fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 So Tampa will have scouts at the game tonight. Drouin speculation is fun. We are dying for a playmaker type, regardless if he plays wing or center. This team needs a Drouin. I wonder what we can realistically offer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just now, Zubie#8 said: We are dying for a playmaker type, regardless if he plays wing or center. This team needs a Drouin. I wonder what we can realistically offer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They want Severson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hit the post Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 50 minutes ago, Mike Brown said: I do find possession metrics to be overrated, albeit still very useful information. Eric Gelinas doesn't just lead the d-core in these possession metrics. HE BLOWS THE REST OF THEM OUT OF THE WATER! And only a naive hockey fan would ignore them. I also want to make a point about O-Zone starts. O-Zone start% Gelinas: 67.5 Helgeson: 60.9 Schlemko: 60.4 Merrill: 58.9 Severson: 57.6 He's only getting 6.6% more O-Zone starts than the next guy. IN RECAP: Gelinas DOES destroy our defensemen in possession metrics while he DOES NOT destroy our defensemen in O-Zone start%. He merely just leads our D-Core in O-Zone start%. I really hope they can find a way to move Gelinas then maybe these worthless charts can end also. Shame of it is you'll only replace it with some other drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 gelinas TOI is also way lower than all the other defensemen as well so he's being given less time to have bad things happen against him. what seems to happen often? he's in the ozone for a faceoff, devils ATTEMPT a shot and the puck heads the other way almost immediately. maybe their is on ice sv % that's way off or something. there is no masking it, gelinas is NOT good and bad things seem to occur often when he's on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Daniel said: So Tampa will have scouts at the game tonight. Drouin speculation is fun. 1 hour ago, Daniel said: They want Severson. And, naturally, he's had a pretty miserable start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokar Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Andrew Ladd is going to the Blackhawks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonDreads Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Andrew Ladd traded to Chicago per Darren Dreger EDIT: Ladd to Chicago for Marko Dano and a 1st Edited February 26, 2016 by CommonDreads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokar Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 There goes the Marko Dano idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 2 hours ago, hit the post said: I really hope they can find a way to move Gelinas then maybe these worthless charts can end also. Shame of it is you'll only replace it with some other drivel. He'll replace it with his traditional playoff chances in every game thread. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 3 hours ago, hit the post said: I really hope they can find a way to move Gelinas then maybe these worthless charts can end also. Shame of it is you'll only replace it with some other drivel. They're not worthless just because you say they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hit the post Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 7 minutes ago, Mike Brown said: They're not worthless just because you say they are. Lets take a vote.....I say worthless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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