Jump to content

2016 New York Jets thread


NJDevs4978

Recommended Posts

Being better than Geno isn't the barometer for being a good QB. To use your analogy Vick was a D+ QB by the time he got here. He wasn't good either, Vick had a sub 55% completion rate and has been 8-14 his last four years. If anything by the time he got here he wanted a Clipboard Jesus role, he didn't want to play and admitted he was unprepared one of the games he relieved Geno (the Chargers or Bills, can't remember which).

As far as the QB's now, the issue is twofold - they all have flaws (well I'd take Rivers in a second but he's not going anywhere). Cutler in NY is a toxic mix, especially with Marshall here. The other problem is the Jets aren't really a win now team at this point. Being win now was predicated in large part on having a veteran offensive line (and now D'Brick is gone while Mangold, Clady and Breno are declining) and having a good D, which they don't apart from the overrated front four.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Being better than Geno isn't the barometer for being a good QB. To use your analogy Vick was a D+ QB by the time he got here. He wasn't good either, Vick had a sub 55% completion rate and has been 8-14 his last four years. If anything by the time he got here he wanted a Clipboard Jesus role, he didn't want to play and admitted he was unprepared one of the games he relieved Geno (the Chargers or Bills, can't remember which).

As far as the QB's now, the issue is twofold - they all have flaws (well I'd take Rivers in a second but he's not going anywhere). Cutler in NY is a toxic mix, especially with Marshall here. The other problem is the Jets aren't really a win now team at this point. Being win now was predicated in large part on having a veteran offensive line (and now D'Brick is gone while Mangold, Clady and Breno are declining) and having a good D, which they don't apart from the overrated front four.

I don't think at 30 years old you can vehemently say either Clady or Giacomini are declining. Clady had a very poor start to the season, no question. But he seems to be more acclimated at this point. The last 3 games he's looked solid. I think it's safe to say that you have another season (possibly two) with this o-line. That doesn't take away that the Jets are still a "win-now" team. I see them with an older, but competent secondary. A very good front seven. Decent enough running backs to do the job, and above average wide receivers. That's basically every area of a football team sans special teams. The glaring hole on this team continues to be the quarterback position. What would this current team look like this year with the same components, and a Tony Romo @ QB instead? Would the outcome of that Seahawks game, 14-10 @ halftime have been the same? Or the Steelers game, that was 17-13 heading into the 4th quarter? Would we have won that 1 point loss in Week 1 against Cincinnati? I don't emphatically know the answers to any of these questions.. but like Mike Francesa says about the eye test: "I have two eyes to see the game". I know what I see, and it's a safe bet to assume that Romo (or any "A+" quarterback for that matter) wouldn't have thrown 10 interceptions throughout the first 4 games of the year, the way Ryan Fitzpatrick had. Take that same "win-now" Jets team from last year.. we really should have won 11 games, and made it to the playoffs. Hypothetically, if we substituted Fitzpatrick and upgraded the QB position with an elite QB (and a cakewalk schedule) do we still finish with 10 wins on the outside looking in? Again.. I can't say, but it's a safe bet to take.. and I'd take it.

Regarding Vick.. you won't get me to budge on that one. When you say he had the "clipboard" mentality, and that he "wasn't even practicing" you're not wrong. That is absolutely true, he lost all enthusiasm on the Jets and you could tell. But I would argue that was after the fact, once he realized after the first few games, that his signing was only a red herring by Idzik. I think once he got smart that the Jets never had any intentions of playing him, he said "fvck this, I'm out of here next year" anyway. It wasn't until the Jets were 1-9 (and Idzik knew he was toast) that Woody stepped in and forced his hand to play Vick. As it was Geno only won 2 more games than Vick. You're not going to convince me that we wouldn't have won more than 4 all year, had Vick been anointed the starter in August.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SS#4-Life said:

i had forgotten the jets ever had vick. odd that rex didnt play him more than he did

Rex had been pretty effectively neutered at the end of his Jets tenure...damn near set up to fail (or so it felt).  He definitely lost some of his power.  You can definitely get on him about some things (and every criticism that has been leveled at Ryan as a coach applies this season...his team starts off 4-2 and is up 17-6 and in terrific position to go 5-2, then they lose that game, and in a "statement game", his team comes up miniscule at home, to the point where he concedes the division at the halfway point of the season).

But that 8-8 miracle that he turned in back in 2013 was a hell of a job.  I thought that was his best season as a HC.  Idzik couldn't have done less to support him that year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Knile Davis. Signed and cut in the blink of an eye as the Jets bring CJ Spiller aboard finally. 

Hopefully this means Jalin Marshall can be used in the passing game more often and CJ can be the designated kick/punt return and screen pass RB. Forte definitely will need a reduced workload as the season wears on.

though I wonder how much Spiller has left in the tank overall. Honestly I may have just held on to Davis at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, '7' said:

Jets bring CJ Spiller aboard finally. I wonder how much Spiller has left in the tank overall.

Over the last 2 weeks, the Jets have rushed for 330+ yrds, with Powell & Forte scoring 5 TD's combined. So what do you do next if you're Maccagnan?? --you sign CJ Spiller, that's what! :P

I don't get it. We need a TE and a WR to supplement the loss of Decker, and Maccagnan signs a RB who made the Probowl 7 years ago? :noclue: Unless they plan on either: A) Running a 3 headed-monster and ground & pound mentality, where we run the ball 30 times a game. -or- B) They plan on deploying Spiller as a WR, in a single set formation when we're in the redzone. That I can actually see. Spiller had 2 receiving TD's last year, and 1 receiving TD in the only game he played this year. I don't know.. I guess we'll see how it unfolds this Sunday. Interestingly enough, the Jets will be the 4th team for Spiller since 2014. That's fascinating to me.. he's still only 29 years old, and he came off of two seasons where he had 3,000 rushing\receiving yards in 2012 & 2013.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Beezer34 said:

Over the last 2 weeks, the Jets have rushed for 330+ yrds, with Powell & Forte scoring 5 TD's combined. So what do you do next if you're Maccagnan?? --you sign CJ Spiller, that's what! :P

I don't get it. We need a TE and a WR to supplement the loss of Decker, and Maccagnan signs a RB who made the Probowl 7 years ago? :noclue: Unless they plan on either: A) Running a 3 headed-monster and ground & pound mentality, where we run the ball 30 times a game. -or- B) They plan on deploying Spiller as a WR, in a single set formation when we're in the redzone. That I can actually see. Spiller had 2 receiving TD's last year, and 1 receiving TD in the only game he played this year. I don't know.. I guess we'll see how it unfolds this Sunday. Interestingly enough, the Jets will be the 4th team for Spiller since 2014. That's fascinating to me.. he's still only 29 years old, and he came off of two seasons where he had 3,000 rushing\receiving yards in 2012 & 2013.

fwiw I think Sefarian-Jenkins is the reclamation project that they hope to get something out of...later this year or next year. He has a ton of talent but is still new to the team.

The 3 headed monster was a fine idea until Khiry Robinson went down. He was the "soften up the D" bruiser that we needed to have an impact this year. That's realyl what we're lacking. Somebody that physically beats up guys he runs into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, '7' said:

fwiw I think Sefarian-Jenkins is the reclamation project that they hope to get something out of...later this year or next year. He has a ton of talent but is still new to the team. The 3 headed monster was a fine idea until Khiry Robinson went down. He was the "soften up the D" bruiser that we needed to have an impact this year. That's realyl what we're lacking. Somebody that physically beats up guys he runs into.

I actually look at these last few weeks as if Todd Bowles and the front office (including Maccagnan) may be in trouble. We bring in Sefarian-Jenkins, we bring in Knile Davis, we workout Karlos Williams, we sign CJ Spiller. There were even reports on twitter yesterday that we made calls inquiring on Joe Haden. When a team is winning, that is usually when you see transactions like this. But when a team is 3-5 like the Jets are, you usually see undrafted players and rookies get a shot. Not exactly tanking, but having the mindset of: "Well let's see what we got, and then continue the program" next season. UNLESS the front-office themselves are uneasy about their program (or themselves) remaining next season. I can remember in 2012 when the Jets were 5-8, Mike Tannenbaum signing Braylon Edwards, Donald Strickland, and bringing in veteran players for a workout routinely, all in the month of December. Same with Idzik in 2014 when the Jets were 1-8, signing Josh Cribbs, Jason Babin, and trading for Percy Harvin. Both GM's were fired when the season ended. It's almost like they know their seats are getting hot. They know fully well their team isn't making the playoffs, but rather than leave it as is to possibly get a higher draft pick, they need to push to win every game they possibly can so they can justify returning next season.

All I continue to hear (from people in the know) is that: Woody is not just angry.. he's livid. We'll see how it unfolds in January.

Edited by Beezer34
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There were also rumors the Jets were looking to trade Sheldon which is inconsistent with the win now hypothesis. I'm no Bowles fan but if Woody streets Maccagnan now that would be way overreactionary. Yeah bringing back Revis didn't work and right now the drafts don't look super spectacular but it's not like Maccagnan was doing all these crazy things no sane fan would do. He got guys like Marshall and Clady cheap, he re-signed guys like Fitz and Mo largely on his terms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't see those rumors to be true. You do have a great D-line. Heck you don't even have that bad a secondary talent wise. They're just being out-coached really, and out-hustled. You just need to bring the secondary up to speed and leave the defensive line alone.

Maccagnan as a talent elevator has been pretty good. Not great but above average. I guess if he hits on Hackenberg it will be a true A+++ pick but...he found Peake/Bobby Anderson who both look like NFL receivers. Khiry Robinson suffered a season ending injury but looked good in pre season. Shame...bad luck. Forte does not look washed up. Leonard Williams is very good. Other guys like Darron Lee...way too early to evaluate. Heck Bryce Petty looked like a real NFL qb in the pre season

This team has talent. But up until very recently he has still had to sift through a lot of Idzik crap. Geno, Amaro, Demario Davis, Chris Owusu and others. But I am happy to see that he understands a franchise has to change with the times in the NFL. Idzik and Rex and their Woody Hayes offense was DOA.

Edited by '7'
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Beezer34 said:

I actually look at these last few weeks as if Todd Bowles and the front office (including Maccagnan) may be in trouble. We bring in Sefarian-Jenkins, we bring in Knile Davis, we workout Karlos Williams, we sign CJ Spiller. There were even reports on twitter yesterday that we made calls inquiring on Joe Haden. When a team is winning, that is usually when you see transactions like this. But when a team is 3-5 like the Jets are, you usually see undrafted players and rookies get a shot. Not exactly tanking, but having the mindset of: "Well let's see what we got, and then continue the program" next season. UNLESS the front-office themselves are uneasy about their program (or themselves) remaining next season. I can remember in 2012 when the Jets were 5-8, Mike Tannenbaum signing Braylon Edwards, Donald Strickland, and bringing in veteran players for a workout routinely, all in the month of December. Same with Idzik in 2014 when the Jets were 1-8, signing Josh Cribbs, Jason Babin, and trading for Percy Harvin. Both GM's were fired when the season ended. It's almost like they know their seats are getting hot. They know fully well their team isn't making the playoffs, but rather than leave it as is to possibly get a higher draft pick, they need to push to win every game they possibly can so they can justify returning next season.

All I continue to hear (from people in the know) is that: Woody is not just angry.. he's livid. We'll see how it unfolds in January.

Woody has the worst instincts. Please I hope somebody reigns him in. Livid really? What did he expect this year with Fitz at QB and a tough schedule. We were lucky with injuries last year...this year Decker is done and we're more nicked up. It happens. If we split the next two games we'll be 4-6. Pretty much EXACTLY where a lot of people looking over our schedule would say we should be.

If you want to start over in 2016 with Petty you must keep the core. Please don't throw this guy out there with a gutted team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sold on this administration yet. We're statistically the oldest team in the league, with no viable longterm plan in sight @ QB. That doesn't fall even partially on the General Manager? Maccagnan performed well last season with a cakewalk schedule which only had 6 genuine road games, and 52 million dollars to play with that Idzik sat on. He walked into a very cozy situation, and that normally doesn't happen every year. Woody may have an experienced Head Coach in mind who gave verbal commitment already. Who knows. Most of the time when you have a HC of that caliber, they ask for GM autonomy. I think it all depends on how the season ends, and Maccagnan himself knows that. If the Jets finish a respectable 8-8 or even 7-9, then I'm fine bringing them both back for a 3rd year again next season. But if we end 2016 with a 5-11 record, Woody's blowing this whole thing up.

Edited by Beezer34
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Beezer34 said:

I'm not sold on this administration yet. We're statistically the oldest team in the league, with no viable longterm plan in sight @ QB. That doesn't fall even partially on the General Manager? Maccagnan performed well last season with a cakewalk schedule which only had 6 genuine road games, and 52 million dollars to play with that Idzik sat on. He walked into a very cozy situation, and that normally doesn't happen every year. Woody may have an experienced Head Coach in mind who gave verbal commitment already. Who knows. Most of the time when you have a HC of that caliber, they ask for GM autonomy. I think it all depends on how the season ends, and Maccagnan himself knows that. If the Jets finish a respectable 8-8 or even 7-9, then I'm fine bringing them both back for a 3rd year again next season. But if we end 2016 with a 5-11 record, Woody's blowing this whole thing up.

Fair enough. And you have valid reasons not to be sold on this administration. I'm just wary of going the Browns/Raiders of old approach of blowing it up every other year. I don't think you attract good personnel that way.

Anyway, if any new coach walks in in 2017 I hope it's Mike Shanahan. And I would attempt to marry him to Maccagnan (and he Francesa would have another stroke) but Shanahan is a good coach, has a lot of pride, and does not want his career to end with that Washington debacle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Beezer34 said:

I'm not sold on this administration yet. We're statistically the oldest team in the league, with no viable longterm plan in sight @ QB. That doesn't fall even partially on the General Manager? Maccagnan performed well last season with a cakewalk schedule which only had 6 genuine road games, and 52 million dollars to play with that Idzik sat on. He walked into a very cozy situation, and that normally doesn't happen every year. Woody may have an experienced Head Coach in mind who gave verbal commitment already. Who knows. Most of the time when you have a HC of that caliber, they ask for GM autonomy. I think it all depends on how the season ends, and Maccagnan himself knows that. If the Jets finish a respectable 8-8 or even 7-9, then I'm fine bringing them both back for a 3rd year again next season. But if we end 2016 with a 5-11 record, Woody's blowing this whole thing up.

When the GM has had a year and a half and they've used two draft picks on QB hopefuls no I don't blame Maccagnan 'yet' for not having a long term solution, which is more or less code for no PROVEN solution. If he hasn't found one after 3+ years that's another story. For all we know maybe Petty or Hackenberg are the long term solution. But we're never going to know that if we keep bringing in stopgap solutions. You can't on the one hand want every 35 year old name QB then on the other rip the GM for having no long term solution when his picks haven't even played yet.

As far as being the oldest team in the league what were they supposed to do? Fitz is a stopgap coming off a career year, Forte at least stays on the field unlike the younger Ivory. Was Maccagnan supposed to say no to bringing back Revis (who the owner and fans all wanted back and who was still at a high level two years ago) or bringing in Marshall cause of age? Or cut Mangold or Harris before they can be adequately replaced?

Edited by NJDevs4978
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Beezer34 said:

I can remember in 2012 when the Jets were 5-8, Mike Tannenbaum signing Braylon Edwards, Donald Strickland, and bringing in veteran players for a workout routinely, all in the month of December. Same with Idzik in 2014 when the Jets were 1-8, signing Josh Cribbs, Jason Babin, and trading for Percy Harvin.

u acknowledge that the jets have already had 3 gms the last 4 yeats and now u think ur owner may hire a 4th? all since 2012. u really think that is the winning formula that great teams implement?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, '7' said:

Fair enough. And you have valid reasons not to be sold on this administration. I'm just wary of going the Browns/Raiders of old approach of blowing it up every other year. I don't think you attract good personnel that way. If any new coach walks in in 2017 I hope it's Mike Shanahan.

I would fvcking LOVE Shanahan. I would also love either Tom Coughlin, Josh McDaniels, or sh!t.. even Norv Turner! I just want someone with exp. who doesn't have to go through their growing pains on my team.

1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

As far as being the oldest team in the league what were they supposed to do? Fitz is a stopgap coming off a career year, Forte at least stays on the field unlike the younger Ivory. Was Maccagnan supposed to say no to bringing back Revis (who the owner and fans all wanted back and who was still at a high level two years ago) or bringing in Marshall cause of age? Or cut Mangold or Harris before they can be adequately replaced?

..that's fair

22 minutes ago, SS#4-Life said:

u acknowledge that the jets have already had 3 gms the last 4 yeats and now u think ur owner may hire a 4th? all since 2012. u really think that is the winning formula that great teams implement?

No, I don't. But by the same token, I don't think it should be the sole reason that binds you to anyone either. If someone is in an abusive marriage having been married 3 times, they shouldn't just say: "Well I already went through two divorces, so I can't do that again now." It just means they suck at finding a spouse. The same way Woody sucks at finding smart people to run the operations of his football team.

Would I be willing to roll the dice yet again on another GM with less experience than Mike Maccagnan? No! I certainly would not. But if tomorrow Bill Cohwer or Mike Holgren walk through the door and say: "I think I'd like to try and clean this mess up." --then regardless whether I like it or not.. the Jets are hiring their 4th General Manager since 2012!! I would hope & pray Woody feels the exact same way. Unless this season ends with the Jets at 9-7, what exactly would\should tie me to either Maccagnan or Bowles??:noclue:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just one nitpick...I think we're all been conditioned to look at the Jets as this disaster but are they really a mess? 10-6 last year, 3-5 this year. If you want to go back our last 25 games...14-11. Most other years we make the playoffs last year, but we also won a Wild Card at 8-8 one time.

Could be worse.

Coughlin would jump at the opportunity. He doesn't have to go anywhere and he can stick it to the Giants. Heck I bet he's kicking himself for turning down Philly. I would absolutely look to Coughlin. Trouble is his age and his teams have had discipline issues themselves. But Coughlin teams can also rise up and beat good teams then and now.

Holmgren can be had but I think he'd want to be more of a front office guy at this point. He's also 68 himself. He also bailed on the Browns pretty quickly

I still contend Cowher will only coach again when the Pittsburgh job opens up. I personally never though too highly of Tomlin as a coach. He's alright and runs a tight no nonsense ship but...he's also got Roethlisberger, a great scouting department, and had nose Lebeau for a while. Things have been pretty easy for Mike Tomlin.

The Cleveland Browns really should roll out the red carpet for Cowher and give him whatever he wants to bring that franchise back from the grave.

Edited by '7'
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

Rumor on Coughlin is Jacksonville... That would make sense because he owns a home there and would be returning to the place he started. But if not, I could see him being interested in the Jets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea. That could work. Honestly the Jags should just fire Bradley now. No progress at all with that franchise. 14-41 is getting near Kotite level. I'd give Coughlin the keys to that disaster midseason. The earlier you start the cleanup the better

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never thought Cowher wanted back in...why would he?  He won his Super Bowl, he's got a high-paying no-pressure gig and he's a family man.  Not everyone's Parcells who didn't give a hoot about family and needed to coach like a narcotic.  The only jobs I thought he might take were the Browns and Carolina cause the latter's close to his family but both have been open multiple times and not even a hint of an interest from him.  Holmgren never had success anywhere except as a coach (and then only when he was solely coach), bringing him in now as a GM would be like the Knicks with Phil Jackson, and that isn't working too great.

Coughlin I definitely think would coach, and I don't think he turned Philly down either - I think it was the opposite but people have too much respect for Coughlin to let that get out there.  But it seemed like he was the one pursuing Philly more than the other way around.

Edited by NJDevs4978
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jets are in a rough spot with this game. Miami is starting to gel and rested coming off a bye. Looks like we may be without Mangold again and a limited Mo Wilk. And of course no Decker and Revis just absolute trash.

Don't see them pulling this one out. Miami I think has a score to settle from last year.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bowles is such an idiot. He doesnt have the slightest idea how to coach a team, of coach a defense.

Our O has looked ok today...but that's Gailey. Bowles is a liability,  in over his head...he cannot coach this team next year. He is being schooled and humiliated 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.