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Vesey signs with Rangers.


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I don't get the love the Rangers get from players. I think there are more players, Gomez, Richards, Gaborik, Holik etc,. who have gone and fizzled with them than actually been successful. I would even find it hard to say the guys who went to NYR during their last cup were successful because they were with the Rags since it was basically the Oilers east that won the Cup in 1994.

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1 hour ago, LittleBallofHate said:

This reminds me of the summer of 2009 when the Devils and Rangers were after Hobey Baker winner Matt Gilroy... he signed with the Rags.  Remember him?  Probably not... he's playing in Russia now... 

I was thinking this the whole time.

 

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8 hours ago, titans04 said:

always funny to see the stepchild like bitterness,  Get over it already,  Worry about our own ongoing issues. He wasn't going to make or break this team or the rags for that matter,  I'm guessing he considered the clown show in Brooklyn for maybe a second or two as well.

 

Always funny to see the same posters bitch and moan about our own fans. What a shame that some Devils fans actually hate everything to do with their biggest rival across the Hudson. 

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As much as I would have liked the free asset, and as nice as it is to be a candidate for any coveted free agent, we are actually pretty set on LW anyway. Now way he would be getting too 6 minutes anytime soon, on LW at least. Sure we could have forced one of our LW's to the right side but that doesn't always work (Kovy). 

It's funny how quickly I went from hoping we get him to disliking him and his sh!tty decision making.

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Meh...the Rangers are always going to have a certain sex appeal, just by sheer virtue of their location, and the building they play in (doesn't matter if that building isn't really anything that special...some people just hear and see "New York" and think "OMG, I just HAVE to play there...it's the ultimate!")  Doesn't matter how good or bad the team is, there will always be players who can't wait to sign with the Rangers.  I'll never get it...I would if the Rangers had a Yankee-like tradition of success (a lot of their fans seem to think that), but they're much more Chicago Cubs in that regard.  And it looks like a pretty solid window is closing on them to boot.

What's always struck me as kind of funny is that you can have your cake and eat it too, in that you can sign with the Devils and totally live a NY lifestyle if you really want that...you can LIVE in NYC and play for the Devils.  But to free agents, it's almost as if they think Newark and NYC are 500 miles away from each other, and that NYC and being a Ranger must go hand-in-hand. 

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21 hours ago, Jerzey said:

As much as I would have liked the free asset, and as nice as it is to be a candidate for any coveted free agent, we are actually pretty set on LW anyway. Now way he would be getting too 6 minutes anytime soon, on LW at least. Sure we could have forced one of our LW's to the right side but that doesn't always work (Kovy). 

It's funny how quickly I went from hoping we get him to disliking him and his sh!tty decision making.

This is pretty much how I felt about it as well.  It would have been a much bigger deal had he been a natural RW 

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It's much more likely he ends up like Matt Gilroy than Blake Wheeler. MUCH. It's basically a free lotto ticket like ive heard others say, and whos going to turn that down but I wasnt worried about the Rangers before they got Vesey and im certainly not now. 

The queen's play will be declining every game from here on out imo. Girardi and Staal on those contracts? That prospect pool? LOL

 

Ohh yea this is the year Kreider will figure out hes really Ovechkin-lite like rags fans have been blathering about forever, and score 40 goals.... :rolleyes:

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On 8/20/2016 at 3:02 AM, Satans Hockey said:

Always funny to see the same posters bitch and moan about our own fans. What a shame that some Devils fans actually hate everything to do with their biggest rival across the Hudson. 

coming from you Sunshine really?

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On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 8:14 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Meh...the Rangers are always going to have a certain sex appeal, just by sheer virtue of their location, and the building they play in (doesn't matter if that building isn't really anything that special...some people just hear and see "New York" and think "OMG, I just HAVE to play there...it's the ultimate!")  Doesn't matter how good or bad the team is, there will always be players who can't wait to sign with the Rangers.  I'll never get it...I would if the Rangers had a Yankee-like tradition of success (a lot of their fans seem to think that), but they're much more Chicago Cubs in that regard.  And it looks like a pretty solid window is closing on them to boot.

What's always struck me as kind of funny is that you can have your cake and eat it too, in that you can sign with the Devils and totally live a NY lifestyle if you really want that...you can LIVE in NYC and play for the Devils.  But to free agents, it's almost as if they think Newark and NYC are 500 miles away from each other, and that NYC and being a Ranger must go hand-in-hand. 

I have often wondered this too.  I guess there is a certain sex appeal when both the home arena and the place you live are both on Manhattan in the middle of a sprawling city. 

I read somewhere that Vesey decided on the Rangers after speaking with his agent(s).  I really wonder how much convincing they did as I can imagine the agents were probably steering him towards the bigger name/market teams for their own selfish benefits.  This always reminds me of Marty where even though I bitch him out quite a bit, I have to admit I respect him for telling his agent early on to go F himself and he went at it alone when it came to dealing with Lou.

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 10:00 AM, devlman said:

In his defense, he wanted anonymity. Going to a declining team that your average New Yorker doesn't gives a sh!t about is about as anonymous as you can get.

I disagree, if the team crashes he will be in the spot light as either the only good thing or another wrong decision...

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I have often wondered this too.  I guess there is a certain sex appeal when both the home arena and the place you live are both on Manhattan in the middle of a sprawling city. 

I read somewhere that Vesey decided on the Rangers after speaking with his agent(s).  I really wonder how much convincing they did as I can imagine the agents were probably steering him towards the bigger name/market teams for their own selfish benefits.  This always reminds me of Marty where even though I bitch him out quite a bit, I have to admit I respect him for telling his agent early on to go F himself and he went at it alone when it came to dealing with Lou.

Wasn't like that exactly...Marty's first long-term contract negotiation (just after the 1995 Cup win) between Lou, Marty, and Marty's agent (Gilles Lupien) got very ugly...Lou had all of the bargaining power in that one, and he really hardballed Marty in a big way (to be fair to Lou, Marty had only played two seasons in the NHL to that point...no one knew for sure that he was going to become this 70+ starts-per-season all-time beast just yet).  I remember Marty actually saying after he signed that deal that once that contract was up (it was a 3-year deal for $5.325 million over the term), he was gone...there was a lot of initial bitterness all-around...and after Lupien did a lot of public negotiating through the press, Lou basically hated Lupien's guts.  Obviously Marty didn't hold a grudge for too long (and he was still basically a kid when that happened anyway), and his relationship with Lou improved drastically.  When it came time for the next contract, despite the great respect that both parties now held for each other, Lou flat-out told Marty "Do what you want, but I'm not dealing with Lupien anymore."  Lou really forced Marty's hand on that, though Marty clearly could've just fired Lupien and hired someone else (not like Lou couldn't NOT deal with every agent on the planet).  

But then Marty realized "Wait, this doesn't really seem all that hard, and I won't have to pay an agent commission on top of it, so why not just do this myself?"  He said the next contract (4 years, $16.8 million) went incredibly smoothly.  He then went out to lunch with Lupien and told him that he had negotiated his new contract all on his own, and asked what he owed Lupien (despite Lupien not being involved at all with the process).  Lupien grabbed a napkin, wrote "0" on it, and shoved it Marty's way.  Lupien was furious with Marty, and that was basically the end of their relationship on all levels.  The only time Marty used an agent again (Pat Brisson) was for his last contract...and I think that's because he didn't know whether or not he'd be back with the Devils, and felt like he could work without an agent only when dealing directly with Lou. 

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11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Wasn't like that exactly...Marty's first long-term contract negotiation (just after the 1995 Cup win) between Lou, Marty, and Marty's agent (Gilles Lupien) got very ugly...Lou had all of the bargaining power in that one, and he really hardballed Marty in a big way (to be fair to Lou, Marty had only played two seasons in the NHL to that point...no one knew for sure that he was going to become this 70+ starts-per-season all-time beast just yet).  I remember Marty actually saying after he signed that deal that once that contract was up (it was a 3-year deal for $5.325 million over the term), he was gone...there was a lot of initial bitterness all-around...and after Lupien did a lot of public negotiating through the press, Lou basically hated Lupien's guts.  Obviously Marty didn't hold a grudge for too long (and he was still basically a kid when that happened anyway), and his relationship with Lou improved drastically.  When it came time for the next contract, despite the great respect that both parties now held for each other, Lou flat-out told Marty "Do what you want, but I'm not dealing with Lupien anymore."  Lou really forced Marty's hand on that, though Marty clearly could've just fired Lupien and hired someone else (not like Lou couldn't NOT deal with every agent on the planet).  

But then Marty realized "Wait, this doesn't really seem all that hard, and I won't have to pay an agent commission on top of it, so why not just do this myself?"  He said the next contract (4 years, $16.8 million) went incredibly smoothly.  He then went out to lunch with Lupien and told him that he had negotiated his new contract all on his own, and asked what he owed Lupien (despite Lupien not being involved at all with the process).  Lupien grabbed a napkin, wrote "0" on it, and shoved it Marty's way.  Lupien was furious with Marty, and that was basically the end of their relationship on all levels.  The only time Marty used an agent again (Pat Brisson) was for his last contract...and I think that's because he didn't know whether or not he'd be back with the Devils, and felt like he could work without an agent only when dealing directly with Lou. 

lol that's a much more detailed version of the events that happened, but in the end Marty did tell Lupien to fvck off.  He could have sided with Lupien and went his own way and make a ton more over his career on other teams.

Point is that Marty didn't go with the flow like most players do and thought for himself rather than having his agent constantly in his ear.  I have read more than once that Parise didn't sign a long-term deal with the Devils the year before he became a UFA was because his agent told him to hold out and see what he will get in the open market.  Not only that but there were some reports (not sure how accurate but read this more than once) that Parise was close to signing a longer term deal with the Devils until his agents got in his ear.

Now I read reports that Vesey made his decision after consulting his agent(s).  That's usually the death knell for Devils hopes of signing highly sought after free agents.  I certainly cannot prove it for sure, but when I see that line that spells doom for us unless we offer the most money (which we couldn't in this case due to rules and even in some instances where we offer the most money we lose).

Basically it's hard being a team that has NJ in it's name (and I have a feeling I am going to start a sh!t storm with that line even though it's completely true).

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8 minutes ago, Devils Pride 26 said:

Oh there'll be a sh!t storm, but for different reasons. You don't bring up the name "Parise" in a thread where SD has commented. 

haha maybe.  I look at him right now and his salary and I always think to myself how we dodged a bullet.

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In the end, the agent works for the player. The buck stops with the player. All an agent can do is advise- that's it. At the end of the day, the player decides what he wants to do. The problem is most of these guys aren't that bright, so they listen to everything the agent tells them to do because they aren't fully capable of an original thought in a lot of cases.


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11 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

lol that's a much more detailed version of the events that happened, but in the end Marty did tell Lupien to fvck off.  He could have sided with Lupien and went his own way and make a ton more over his career on other teams.

Point is that Marty didn't go with the flow like most players do and thought for himself rather than having his agent constantly in his ear.  I have read more than once that Parise didn't sign a long-term deal with the Devils the year before he became a UFA was because his agent told him to hold out and see what he will get in the open market.  Not only that but there were some reports (not sure how accurate but read this more than once) that Parise was close to signing a longer term deal with the Devils until his agents got in his ear.

Now I read reports that Vesey made his decision after consulting his agent(s).  That's usually the death knell for Devils hopes of signing highly sought after free agents.  I certainly cannot prove it for sure, but when I see that line that spells doom for us unless we offer the most money (which we couldn't in this case due to rules and even in some instances where we offer the most money we lose).

Basically it's hard being a team that has NJ in it's name (and I have a feeling I am going to start a sh!t storm with that line even though it's completely true).

Much of what I posted is in his book...especially the bits about Lupien post-95. 

Yeah, the first bolded goes without saying...Lou and Marty definitely had a very strong relationship...almost to the point where it became a bit of a detriment to the team at the very end (no one could bring themselves to do the right thing in Marty's final season).  He said that heard rumblings about the NHLPA not being happy with his team-friendly way of doing business (and Marty mentions in his book that not having to pay agent commissions made it a lot easier to take less money), but also said that no one had the balls to say anything to his face, so he didn't care what they had to say about that. 

Re:  the second bolded...I think people still think of the franchise as Lou's Devils, as this "stuck-in-the-mud" team that somehow plays nothing but trap hockey and STILL plays all of its games in a swamp.  We know that a lot of awesome things came out of Lou's era here.  We also know that some things got pretty hard to take after a while, and that the franchise often took on the best AND the worst parts of Lou's personality.  And yeah, I think a lot of people have some unfortunate preconceptions of what they THINK New Jersey is, as opposed to what it ACTUALLY is.  The owners and GM are trying to change it up for the better (it was definitely time for changes in philosophy both on AND off the ice), and so far I like what they're doing.  But it's going to take some more time...and some wins (a couple of playoff appearances sure won't hurt).   

I like that Shero is trading for some young guys to build around (like Palmieri and Hall...really wish Cory could somehow be five years younger), who will hopefully be a part of consistent contender in the near future, and can be those guys who carry the torch for the Devils and become those next "proud to be in NJ and playing for the Devils" guys...something that other players might want to be a part of.  I understand why Lou kept going to the UFA well when there weren't enough guys coming up through the organization, but the team had become soulless and faceless, and too reliant on what was left of the old guard.  You've got a crop of young players who should be here for a while, some of whom should be pretty good...I won't kill Lou for making the age old GM mistake of adding pieces to a non-existent nucleus at the very end of a proficient run, but Shero is off to a nice start in putting together a potentially solid nucleus (if Travis can ever consistently find his offense again, it gets a lot more interesting).  Hopefully it won't be too long before all Shero will have to do is either sign or trade for that one or two players who help to bring it all together. 

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11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Much of what I posted is in his book...especially the bits about Lupien post-95. 

Yeah, the first bolded goes without saying...Lou and Marty definitely had a very strong relationship...almost to the point where it became a bit of a detriment to the team at the very end (no one could bring themselves to do the right thing in Marty's final season).  He said that heard rumblings about the NHLPA not being happy with his team-friendly way of doing business (and Marty mentions in his book that not having to pay agent commissions made it a lot easier to take less money), but also said that no one had the balls to say anything to his face, so he didn't care what they had to say about that. 

Re:  the second bolded...I think people still think of the franchise as Lou's Devils, as this "stuck-in-the-mud" team that somehow plays nothing but trap hockey and STILL plays all of its games in a swamp.  We know that a lot of awesome things came out of Lou's era here.  We also know that some things got pretty hard to take after a while, and that the franchise often took on the best AND the worst parts of Lou's personality.  And yeah, I think a lot of people have some unfortunate preconceptions of what they THINK New Jersey is, as opposed to what it ACTUALLY is.  The owners and GM are trying to change it up for the better (it was definitely time for changes in philosophy both on AND off the ice), and so far I like what they're doing.  But it's going to take some more time...and some wins (a couple of playoff appearances sure won't hurt).   

I like that Shero is trading for some young guys to build around (like Palmieri and Hall...really wish Cory could somehow be five years younger), who will hopefully be a part of consistent contender in the near future, and can be those guys who carry the torch for the Devils and become those next "proud to be in NJ and playing for the Devils" guys...something that other players might want to be a part of.  I understand why Lou kept going to the UFA well when there weren't enough guys coming up through the organization, but the team had become soulless and faceless, and too reliant on what was left of the old guard.  You've got a crop of young players who should be here for a while, some of whom should be pretty good...I won't kill Lou for making the age old GM mistake of adding pieces to a non-existent nucleus at the very end of a proficient run, but Shero is off to a nice start in putting together a potentially solid nucleus (if Travis can ever consistently find his offense again, it gets a lot more interesting).  Hopefully it won't be too long before all Shero will have to do is either sign or trade for that one or two players who help to bring it all together. 

I enjoyed reading this post, thanks BTW your assessment is correct IMO.

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Brodeur used a lawyer who was not certified as an NHL agent to look over his contracts - this is part of why the NHLPA was not happy with him.

I thought Gilles Lupien was also Claude Lemieux's agent during that whole fax fiasco but I cannot find that information, so I suspect it's not the case.

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I like that Shero is trading for some young guys to build around (like Palmieri and Hall...really wish Cory could somehow be five years younger), who will hopefully be a part of consistent contender in the near future, and can be those guys who carry the torch for the Devils and become those next "proud to be in NJ and playing for the Devils" guys...something that other players might want to be a part of.  I understand why Lou kept going to the UFA well when there weren't enough guys coming up through the organization, but the team had become soulless and faceless, and too reliant on what was left of the old guard.  You've got a crop of young players who should be here for a while, some of whom should be pretty good...I won't kill Lou for making the age old GM mistake of adding pieces to a non-existent nucleus at the very end of a proficient run, but Shero is off to a nice start in putting together a potentially solid nucleus (if Travis can ever consistently find his offense again, it gets a lot more interesting).  Hopefully it won't be too long before all Shero will have to do is either sign or trade for that one or two players who help to bring it all together. 

That's a huge might.  Even in the 1999-2003 span it was tough for Devils to get the top free agents though it's when you are at your peak that you have less of a need for them.  Still though when the Rangers were terrible during this period too and the Islanders even worse, the Rangers were still viewed as the sexiest of the 3 area teams for players to land at.  It really is the entire Manhattan address that compels these players and their agents.

Who knows, maybe now that we don't have a management group that treats the players like alien hostages inside of Area 51 and allow them to market themselves more players and their agents will see NJ as having potential.

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Tough to argue the kid isn't bright having gone to Harvard,  Kids that come up through juniors are more likely to fit the mold maybe not so much the ivy league kids,  I think the draw of playing in NY and especially MSG is huge for some kids whether the Rags suck or not.  I think the "opportunity" to play in Brooklyn is relatively meaningless and even detrimental regardless of Taveras and company. Slice it however you want Newark, Hoboken etc. isn't NY,  I work in the financial district, personally I hate everything about it BUT for the most part I'm in the minority. It's a huge draw for a sh!tload of people and especially athletes.

7 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

In the end, the agent works for the player. The buck stops with the player. All an agent can do is advise- that's it. At the end of the day, the player decides what he wants to do. The problem is most of these guys aren't that bright, so they listen to everything the agent tells them to do because they aren't fully capable of an original thought in a lot of cases.


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