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'NY' Riveters


MadDog2020
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Just read the article.  Where does it say they are keeping, "New York"?  I know it didn't say they are becoming the "New Jersey Riveters".

If they stay in Newark, and the league actually lasts, my guess is they would change to New Jersey eventually.  I do think it is funny that the writer hints that "fans" will make the trip over from Manhattan for this team.  

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On August 6, 2016 at 1:33 PM, thecoffeecake said:

New Jersey teams using New York names is a hell of a lot different from the Pistons playing in Auburn Mills, or whatever. New Jersey is a culturally unique place, and things like this are at an almost unfathomable level of disrespect as far as I'm concerned. Everyone's right, we should pass a state law preventing this kind of thing.

I would 100% buy tickets for this if it didn't keep the NY identity. I think making strides to address the gender gap in sports is important, but I've long spent my last dollar helping New York teams turn out crowds and profits in my state.

You do realize you and others are going crazy over a women's professional hockey team right?  A team that plays in a league that had 4 teams last year and play in arenas that are no bigger than FHL and beer league teams play in.  The Riveters are going to now play in arena that HS hockey teams mostly use throughout the year.  It is not a big deal.  Them and the league will probably fold within the next 1-2 seasons anyways.

And yes, we should pass laws that prevent us from making money off of teams due to their name.  While we are at it, let me go on the same level of ridiculous logic and overreaction by outlawing any good or service that isn't drenched in NJ state pride.

Edited by DevsMan84
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On 08/08/2016 at 10:52 AM, Matteau#32 said:

Wait, are you serious with the 2nd paragraph or being sarcastic?  I am assuming the latter.

Anyways, you do realize that In terms of the Giants and Jets, the Meadowlands is closer to NYC than Auburn Hills is to Detroit, or Arlington is to D*ll*s or Landover is to DC, right?

I just called to ask how much they would pay me to show up.  The rep seemed confused.

You do realize proximity isn't the point, right? You understand the difference between geography and culture, right?

On 08/09/2016 at 3:15 PM, DevsMan84 said:

You do realize you and others are going crazy over a women's professional hockey team right?  A team that plays in a league that had 4 teams last year and play in arenas that are no bigger than FHL and beer league teams play in.  The Riveters are going to now play in arena that HS hockey teams mostly use throughout the year.  It is not a big deal.  Them and the league will probably fold within the next 1-2 seasons anyways.

And yes, we should pass laws that prevent us from making money off of teams due to their name.  While we are at it, let me go on the same level of ridiculous logic and overreaction by outlawing any good or service that isn't drenched in NJ state pride.

The same level of ridiculous logic that they used in France to pass a law that requires 75 percent of songs on the radio to be French songs, the same level of ridiculous logic of the Charter of the French Language in Quebec, the same level of ridiculous logic in Wales mandating all public services be offered in Welsh and English.

But you're right, we'd lose so much money when the Giants Jets and Red Bulls packed up for New York. Maybe they'll bring their stadiums with them and drop them in the middle of Manhattan.

Having the NJ moniker on these kinds of things would be fantastic for exposure, especially for our tourism industry.

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3 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

You do realize proximity isn't the point, right? You understand the difference between geography and culture, right?

The same level of ridiculous logic that they used in France to pass a law that requires 75 percent of songs on the radio to be French songs, the same level of ridiculous logic of the Charter of the French Language in Quebec, the same level of ridiculous logic in Wales mandating all public services be offered in Welsh and English.

But you're right, we'd lose so much money when the Giants Jets and Red Bulls packed up for New York. Maybe they'll bring their stadiums with them and drop them in the middle of Manhattan.

Having the NJ moniker on these kinds of things would be fantastic for exposure, especially for our tourism industry.

You are justifying ridiculous logic by citing ridiculous laws in Europe?  Again you are talking about the name of a women's hockey league that barely rivals FHL hockey teams in terms of popularity.

And you act like the NJ name has a lot of marketing stock.  It doesn't, especially compared to NY.  You think people are going to flock to games from both outside and inside the state all because of NJ name?  I don't know about you or anyone else, but I've never determined a vacation destination based on sports team names.

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12 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

You are justifying ridiculous logic by citing ridiculous laws in Europe?  Again you are talking about the name of a women's hockey league that barely rivals FHL hockey teams in terms of popularity.

And you act like the NJ name has a lot of marketing stock.  It doesn't, especially compared to NY.  You think people are going to flock to games from both outside and inside the state all because of NJ name?  I don't know about you or anyone else, but I've never determined a vacation destination based on sports team names.

Laws like that are designed to protect cultures, and in most cases, fragile ones. You think laws that helped save the Welsh language are ridiculous? You think laws that prevented the demise of Franco culture in Canada are ridiculous? I'm gonna go ahead and follow your path of logic here and guess you think policies in this country designed to promote American Indian cultural programs and awareness are ridiculous. Things like this exist all over the world. The only thing that make them ridiculous is your closed minded and singular perspective.

I don't care about the market stock of the NY or NJ name. I'm not arguing one is going to make more money than the other. As a person/consumer from New Jersey, I am allowed to take exception to  this. New Jersey is not New York, and it exists far beyond its role as suburbs for New York and Philadelphia. That's where I'm coming from.

Yea, no sh!t no one is going to book a plane ticket to Newark because the Riveters have the New Jersey name on them. The point is having our name attached to such major products like the NFL and MLS would increase New Jersey's exposure in the national consciousness. You'll have millions more people thinking about New Jersey, talkibg about New Jersey. I bet 90 percent of American NHL fans would not have known places like Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton even existed without their NHL franchises. And the point isn't that people are flocking there on vacation, but they have much more exposure than they would otherwise.

Are you going to try to tell me there's zero value in a national audience hearing "New Jersey" hundreds of times and seeing NJ on helmets and scoarboards  on Sunday Night Football?

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I am saying that.  What value has NJ ever seen from the Devils and back in the day Nets when they had NJ in their name?

Europe is funny and they themselves contradictory.  They have these laws to "protect" their culture yet have no problem surrendering their culture in the name of politician correctness especially recently.

Exposure is worthless without getting some return out of it.  Why would the field of marketing exist if all you had to do was blast out a name non-stop and expect no ROI?  That's how marketing firms lose business if the clients see no return.

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That league is a 4 teams league created in 2015... the NY team moved to Newark for logistic reasons. It JUST happened. Can people just relax and wait it out to see if they may change the name eventually or anything? 

some people are acting like it's some kind of stab in the back or something. Not as if the team was created in NJ but used NY cause it has a bigger value or anything. They moved to another facility. They don't even have a TV deal... so the exposure thing is really not a concern

I get the culture argument and all, I'm a french acadian surrounded by english people trying to assimilate the french community. It's not as if i don't understand how that works.

I mean if you're gonna get technical, is the NY Rangers called "NY" the state or NY the city? cause most teams are using the city and not the state/province... so then technically the Islanders fans "could" whine if they feel like it that the team should be the Brooklyn Islanders. 

 

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On 08/11/2016 at 10:34 AM, DevsMan84 said:

I am saying that.  What value has NJ ever seen from the Devils and back in the day Nets when they had NJ in their name?

Europe is funny and they themselves contradictory.  They have these laws to "protect" their culture yet have no problem surrendering their culture in the name of politician correctness especially recently.

Exposure is worthless without getting some return out of it.  Why would the field of marketing exist if all you had to do was blast out a name non-stop and expect no ROI?  That's how marketing firms lose business if the clients see no return.

It's immeasurable. I wasn't around before the Nets or Devils, but I imagine their presence on such a huge stage helped the NJ identity shift away from  exclusively a NY/Phila suburb.

Companies pay absurd sums of money to simply attach their name on things. There is a dollar value associated with sponsorship, which is essentially what the regional identification on sports teams is. Red Bull paid whatever they paid to acquire how many soccer teams, and they didn't stop at redesigning logos and slapping their brand physically on everything; they put their brand directly into the name because there's value there. A lot of it.

When a team is hosting a game on a big stage, what do national networks do? Show shots of the city and region at every commercial break. How many more people saw scenes from a single city that hosted Monday Night Football this past year than the stronger than the storm commercial campaign the state tourism association ran after Sandy? Literally millions. It's free advertising to a national audience. It adds a level of prestige to a city or place that hosts a major professional sports franchise.

What happened after this past NHL all star game? People sh!t their pants over Nashville and how great it was for the event. I honestly had very little interest in going to Nashville, even despite the good things I heard from close friends about it. I've really wanted to go since I saw it highlighted during all star weekend. If even 1 in 100 people who watched the event felt the same, how much value did it generate in a single weekend? ROI, dog.

I'm not going to try to discern your second paragraph.

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New Jersey is a pansy when it come to getting a good deal for NJ. Superbowl was held in NJ but NY got all the money and the hype.  Jets and Giants  play in NJ but are called NY.

NJ Nets went to Brooklyn and changed the name from NJ Nets to the Brooklyn Nets.

Who in NJ owns the this issue the Governor? 

The cost of street cleanup and policing is an expense that Newark takes on while NY gets the publicity. Not fair. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, thecoffeecake said:

It's immeasurable. I wasn't around before the Nets or Devils, but I imagine their presence on such a huge stage helped the NJ identity shift away from  exclusively a NY/Phila suburb.

Companies pay absurd sums of money to simply attach their name on things. There is a dollar value associated with sponsorship, which is essentially what the regional identification on sports teams is. Red Bull paid whatever they paid to acquire how many soccer teams, and they didn't stop at redesigning logos and slapping their brand physically on everything; they put their brand directly into the name because there's value there. A lot of it.

When a team is hosting a game on a big stage, what do national networks do? Show shots of the city and region at every commercial break. How many more people saw scenes from a single city that hosted Monday Night Football this past year than the stronger than the storm commercial campaign the state tourism association ran after Sandy? Literally millions. It's free advertising to a national audience. It adds a level of prestige to a city or place that hosts a major professional sports franchise.

What happened after this past NHL all star game? People sh!t their pants over Nashville and how great it was for the event. I honestly had very little interest in going to Nashville, even despite the good things I heard from close friends about it. I've really wanted to go since I saw it highlighted during all star weekend. If even 1 in 100 people who watched the event felt the same, how much value did it generate in a single weekend? ROI, dog.

I'm not going to try to discern your second paragraph.

Of course you ignored my second paragraph because it picks apart you entire idea of what advertising is.  Companies slap on their names to events and products to sell.  That's the return; to sell more of that item.  What return has NJ seen from the Devils or Nets?

When they did aerial shots of the Devils both in Newark and the Meadowlands, they always include the NY skyline in the background.  What does that say to you about what national broadcasters think of the NJ "brand"?

The Red Bull example is absolutely terrible and laughable you used that.  For starters, Red Bull owns the team.  Other teams with the state/ city in their name are very rarely owned by the state/ city so not even an apples to apples comparison.  Second the team used to be the NY/NJ Metrostars. Guess which part of that name as remained the same?  Even early MLS soccer saw no value in the NJ name.

Nashville All-Star game might have changed your view about wanting to go there, but if the All star game was at the Rock you think suddenly everyone wants to go to Newark?  Hate to break it to you but ask any 100 random people which city they rather go to and I doubt any would pick Newark, all star game or not.  Plus you bet the NHL and NBC would position its proximity to NYC than it would about NJ just like the Suoer Bowl a couple years back.

anyways I'm done talking about this.  I've already wasted enough time with you over a stupid WOMEN's HOCKEY TEAM that is going to play in a rink that holds about 600 people.  If you want to go take your little SJW self and whine and stamp your feet over the name then be my guest.  I'm done.

Edited by DevsMan84
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On 8/13/2016 at 3:46 PM, BostonNala370 said:

New Jersey is a pansy when it come to getting a good deal for NJ. Superbowl was held in NJ but NY got all the money and the hype.  Jets and Giants  play in NJ but are called NY.

NJ Nets went to Brooklyn and changed the name from NJ Nets to the Brooklyn Nets.

Who in NJ owns the this issue the Governor? 

The cost of street cleanup and policing is an expense that Newark takes on while NY gets the publicity. Not fair. 

"Publicity" for a city like New York isn't really worth all that much. You're overstating the financial benefit New York gets for its name being plastered on teams; and understating what New Jersey gets out of it.

New Jersey is really getting all the money benefits from deals like this (and Jets, Giants, Red Bulls, etc.):

  • Taxes
  • More jobs for local residents (very rarely are they commuting New Yorkers)
  • Payroll taxes
  • Money being spent at local restaurants, bars (in Newark/Harrison's case especially) by fans on game day (and employees during the work-week)
  • Money put into either the PATH or NJ Transit systems, and if not, Uber drivers, in many cases Jersey residents
  • Hell, drivers coming into New Jersey for Giants/Jets games are paying for expensive tolls and topping up their gas here
  • All these teams' offices, headquarters, and practice facilities are based in New Jersey; more employees, more payroll taxes, more money spent statewide; I'm sure most of these employees (and athletes) end up living in New Jersey, so housing goes up, etc.

Looking at that list, you could flip the whole script around and say that maybe New Yorkers should be the angry ones here: sports teams get to slap "New York" on their product and rake in the money in another state. I'd take all the benefits I've listed up there over the ego benefit (that's all it is really) of having a "New York" team any day of the week. New Yorkers are the ones who are actually being screwed here.

New Jersey essentially stokes their ego, while taking all the financial benefit.

Edited by DJ Eco
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1 hour ago, DJ Eco said:

"Publicity" for a city like New York isn't really worth all that much. You're overstating the financial benefit New York gets for its name being plastered on teams; and understating what New Jersey gets out of it.

New Jersey is really getting all the money benefits from deals like this (and Jets, Giants, Red Bulls, etc.):

  • Taxes
  • More jobs for local residents (very rarely are they commuting New Yorkers)
  • Payroll taxes
  • Money being spent at local restaurants, bars (in Newark/Harrison's case especially) by fans on game day (and employees during the work-week)
  • Money put into either the PATH or NJ Transit systems, and if not, Uber drivers, in many cases Jersey residents
  • Hell, drivers coming into New Jersey for Giants/Jets games are paying for expensive tolls and topping up their gas here
  • All these teams' offices, headquarters, and practice facilities are based in New Jersey; more employees, more payroll taxes, more money spent statewide; I'm sure most of these employees (and athletes) end up living in New Jersey, so housing goes up, etc.

Looking at that list, you could flip the whole script around and say that maybe New Yorkers should be the angry ones here: sports teams get to slap "New York" on their product and rake in the money in another state. I'd take all the benefits I've listed up there over the ego benefit (that's all it is really) of having a "New York" team any day of the week. New Yorkers are the ones who are actually being screwed here.

New Jersey essentially stokes their ego, while taking all the financial benefit.

ha. very interesting point of view there and you brought great points.

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4 hours ago, DJ Eco said:

"Publicity" for a city like New York isn't really worth all that much. You're overstating the financial benefit New York gets for its name being plastered on teams; and understating what New Jersey gets out of it.

New Jersey is really getting all the money benefits from deals like this (and Jets, Giants, Red Bulls, etc.):

  • Taxes
  • More jobs for local residents (very rarely are they commuting New Yorkers)
  • Payroll taxes
  • Money being spent at local restaurants, bars (in Newark/Harrison's case especially) by fans on game day (and employees during the work-week)
  • Money put into either the PATH or NJ Transit systems, and if not, Uber drivers, in many cases Jersey residents
  • Hell, drivers coming into New Jersey for Giants/Jets games are paying for expensive tolls and topping up their gas here
  • All these teams' offices, headquarters, and practice facilities are based in New Jersey; more employees, more payroll taxes, more money spent statewide; I'm sure most of these employees (and athletes) end up living in New Jersey, so housing goes up, etc.

Looking at that list, you could flip the whole script around and say that maybe New Yorkers should be the angry ones here: sports teams get to slap "New York" on their product and rake in the money in another state. I'd take all the benefits I've listed up there over the ego benefit (that's all it is really) of having a "New York" team any day of the week. New Yorkers are the ones who are actually being screwed here.

New Jersey essentially stokes their ego, while taking all the financial benefit.

Thanks, stand corrected, your points are well taken

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5 hours ago, DJ Eco said:

"Publicity" for a city like New York isn't really worth all that much. You're overstating the financial benefit New York gets for its name being plastered on teams; and understating what New Jersey gets out of it.

New Jersey is really getting all the money benefits from deals like this (and Jets, Giants, Red Bulls, etc.):

  • Taxes
  • More jobs for local residents (very rarely are they commuting New Yorkers)
  • Payroll taxes
  • Money being spent at local restaurants, bars (in Newark/Harrison's case especially) by fans on game day (and employees during the work-week)
  • Money put into either the PATH or NJ Transit systems, and if not, Uber drivers, in many cases Jersey residents
  • Hell, drivers coming into New Jersey for Giants/Jets games are paying for expensive tolls and topping up their gas here
  • All these teams' offices, headquarters, and practice facilities are based in New Jersey; more employees, more payroll taxes, more money spent statewide; I'm sure most of these employees (and athletes) end up living in New Jersey, so housing goes up, etc.

Looking at that list, you could flip the whole script around and say that maybe New Yorkers should be the angry ones here: sports teams get to slap "New York" on their product and rake in the money in another state. I'd take all the benefits I've listed up there over the ego benefit (that's all it is really) of having a "New York" team any day of the week. New Yorkers are the ones who are actually being screwed here.

New Jersey essentially stokes their ego, while taking all the financial benefit.

This really is a very good point.   However, my state pride still brings me to hate being treated like a second class citizen in this respect.  What really drives me nuts is when broadcasters say or act like the event is live from NYC rather than the swamps of Jersey.  You can show all the shots of the Empire State Building you want, just be accurate in telling the audience where the game is actually being played.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 08/14/2016 at 0:18 AM, DevsMan84 said:

Of course you ignored my second paragraph because it picks apart you entire idea of what advertising is.  Companies slap on their names to events and products to sell.  That's the return; to sell more of that item.  What return has NJ seen from the Devils or Nets?

When they did aerial shots of the Devils both in Newark and the Meadowlands, they always include the NY skyline in the background.  What does that say to you about what national broadcasters think of the NJ "brand"?

The Red Bull example is absolutely terrible and laughable you used that.  For starters, Red Bull owns the team.  Other teams with the state/ city in their name are very rarely owned by the state/ city so not even an apples to apples comparison.  Second the team used to be the NY/NJ Metrostars. Guess which part of that name as remained the same?  Even early MLS soccer saw no value in the NJ name.

Nashville All-Star game might have changed your view about wanting to go there, but if the All star game was at the Rock you think suddenly everyone wants to go to Newark?  Hate to break it to you but ask any 100 random people which city they rather go to and I doubt any would pick Newark, all star game or not.  Plus you bet the NHL and NBC would position its proximity to NYC than it would about NJ just like the Suoer Bowl a couple years back.

anyways I'm done talking about this.  I've already wasted enough time with you over a stupid WOMEN's HOCKEY TEAM that is going to play in a rink that holds about 600 people.  If you want to go take your little SJW self and whine and stamp your feet over the name then be my guest.  I'm done.

Your second paragraph was some misinformed commentary about Europe's political climate.

What does Prudential get out of having their name on the Prudential Center? What does Coca Cola get out of their massive sign in the stands in city field (it is coke now, right?)? What does any enterprise that has ever advertised gotten out of their advertisements? Nothing, I guess.

Who owns the team has nothing to do with it, the point is, as Red Bull demonstrated by plastering their brand all over all of the soccer teams they've bought, is that there is value in the name of a professional sports team. Despite the blowback every time they do it, they continue to push their brand on the names of their clubs.

Firstly, Newark is an excellent city. Tourist attraction, no, but it's a great place. A place that could definitely benefit from some good PR like Nashville did. Secondly, last I checked, and I know you won't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong, but this team is the New Jersey Devils. It's not Newark's team. It's not North Jersey's team. New Jersey has much more to offer than any singular city does, and all of our assets should be on display when we do host something like an all star event, not a couple of faint buildings in the distance.

If you find no value in our state, buy a Rangers jersey and fvck off. You don't belong in the red and black.

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  • 6 months later...

Bumping this thread for two reasons. Has anyone actually gone to one of these games? How is it? How do they draw? I actually forget this was a thing because they have no marketing with the Devils and I haven't seen one thing said about them at a Devils game.

This is what made me think about it in the first place... 

www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/ct-womens-hockey-world-championships-boycott-20170315

Edited by Satans Hockey
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3 hours ago, Satans Hockey said:

Bumping this thread for two reasons. Has anyone actually gone to one of these games? How is it? How do they draw? I actually forget this was a thing because they have no marketing with the Devils and I haven't seen one thing said about them at a Devils game.

This is what made me think about it in the first place... 

www.chicagotribune.com/sports/hockey/ct-womens-hockey-world-championships-boycott-20170315

I have yet to go to a game... and don't really see myself going either, because it's enough to drive from Toms River 35 times a year to see the Devils, but I guess the team is decently competitive because they beat the Boston Pride who were 16-0 going into their game the other day. Only reason I know anything about it is because some of the people I follow on twitter report about that league.

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