Around the League: 2016-17 edition

[Satans Hockey]

I'll have to browse hf boards and see what Dallas Stars fans think. From my perspective there are a number of things that would annoy me, they still kept Goldsworthy and Masterton retired jerseys even though they never played for Dallas and they retired Broten's number too even though it was mainly for his Minnesota days. I just don't understand the paying homage to an old team that has nothing to do with your city except for moving there. It means nothing to the fans in the new city. Let the Wild retire those numbers, those are the fans that watched those players. It just reminded me that it is kind of like us paying homage to teams nobody cares about in our jerseys. 

At least Modano and Lehtinen makes sense. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Satans Hockey

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, Satans Hockey said:

I'll have to browse hf boards and see what Dallas Stars fans think. From my perspective there are a number of things that would annoy me, they still kept Goldsworthy and Masterton retired jerseys even though they never played for Dallas and they retired Broten's number too even though it was mainly for his Minnesota days. I just don't understand the paying homage to an old team that has nothing to do with your city except for moving there. It means nothing to the fans in the new city. Let the Wild retire those numbers, those are the fans that watched those players. It just reminded me that it is kind of like us paying homage to teams nobody cares about in our jerseys. 

At least Modano and Lehtinen makes sense. 

If a relocating franchise chooses to hang on to its history (most do, though the when the original Cleveland Browns left for Baltimore, they left their history in Cleveland), I can't fault them one bit for not doing away with previously retired jerseys, even if those players won't be nearly as relevant to the new fanbase.  I've always felt it was a bit odd that the Devils never included Scouts and Rockies numbers in with their own, especially since you had several Rockies play as Devils (and Scouts as Rockies)...with the Scouts, there's no Devils...not as we know them, anyway.  But as I've previously detailed, paying homage to the Scouts and Rockies in the Devils jersey design just made no sense and wasn't being clamored for by anyone. 

The most bizarre claiming of history I've ever seen is what the Senators did when they entered the NHL in 1992...they basically snagged the history of the previous Senators club (in the NHL from 1917-1934) that won four NHL Cups in the 1920s and claimed it as their own.  I've actually heard Ottawa fans state that they've won 11 Cups...the current franchise actually has banners for ALL of the previous franchise's Cup wins on display, even the pre-NHL Cups...I'm sorry, but this is a bit weird to me...this current Senators franchise has NOTHING to do with that one, outside of playing in the same city and sharing a team nickname: 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=TwVskuMN&id=E2C7F5F3CE780A8150D53C3E912BACD0DD64FF5C&thid=OIP.TwVskuMNKA0NpNEE0TR1HwEsDh&q=ottawa+senators+championship+banner&simid=608037761637090679&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

Edited September 26, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[DevsMan84]

I have sometimes wondered if the Scout and Rockies were more successful then the Devils would celebrate them more.  Between the 8 years they were in KC and Denver, they had only made the playoffs once and that was because their division was incredibly weak and the playoff format back then benefiting them.  The biggest stars between those two teams were probably McDonald (who wasn't on the team all that long), Chico, Beck, Ramage (also only played a short time and later didn't want to move to NJ), Paiement, Robert (was already starting to be past his prime and started to become more and more injured).  Outside of those they really didn't have much big names to really latch onto.

The Ottawa thing is indeed weird and they really should be embarrassed.  Vancouver did something similar with their Millionaires alternate jersey.  It's a team that played 100 years ago and never even played in the NHL.  Only connection was that they played in the same city.

['7']

39 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If a relocating franchise chooses to hang on to its history (most do, though the when the original Cleveland Browns left for Baltimore, they left their history in Cleveland), I can't fault them one bit for not doing away with previously retired jerseys, even if those players won't be nearly as relevant to the new fanbase.  I've always felt it was a bit odd that the Devils never included Scouts and Rockies numbers in with their own, especially since you had several Rockies play as Devils (and Scouts as Rockies)...with the Scouts, there's no Devils...not as we know them, anyway.  But as I've previously detailed, paying homage to the Scouts and Rockies in the Devils jersey design just made no sense and wasn't being clamored for by anyone. 

The most bizarre claiming of history I've ever seen is what the Senators did when they entered the NHL in 1992...they basically snagged the history of the previous Senators club (in the NHL from 1917-1934) that won four NHL Cups in the 1920s and claimed it as their own.  I've actually heard Ottawa fans state that they've won 11 Cups...the current franchise actually has banners for ALL of the previous franchise's Cup wins on display, even the pre-NHL Cups...I'm sorry, but this is a bit weird to me...this current Senators franchise has NOTHING to do with that one, outside of playing in the same city and sharing a team nickname: 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=TwVskuMN&id=E2C7F5F3CE780A8150D53C3E912BACD0DD64FF5C&thid=OIP.TwVskuMNKA0NpNEE0TR1HwEsDh&q=ottawa+senators+championship+banner&simid=608037761637090679&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0

I know they left their history in Cleveland, at least that's the agreement that the NFL worked out, but really that unbroken franchise line goes from Cleveland to Baltimore. And the team that took its place, despite the name and colors are not the old Browns. It was an expansion team just like the Jags and Panthers, starting from scratch. I'll always see the Browns as the Ravens.

In a weird sense it's almost like the Browns misfortune now is like punishment for raising the dead. It's like Pet Sematary.

Edited September 26, 2017 by '7'

[MadDog2020]

NYR players need their visors tilted up more to protect their eyes from the Broadway Bright Lights brah

Rangerstown brah. Worlds most famous arena brah. Can't have the visors interfere with the view of the bright spotlight brah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

['7']

59 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Rangerstown brah. Worlds most famous arena brah. Can't have the visors interfere with the view of the bright spotlight brah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Beginnins Brah, watch how I grew up in Moose Groin Alberta a die hard Rangers fan brah. Watch it 97 times a day on the MSG Network brah.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I agree '7', the whole Browns history-that-isn't-really-their-history thing is more symbolic and an attempt to create continuity more than anything else...almost a way for Browns fans to somehow block out the fact that their team was actually ripped away from them before the NFL was added them another.

2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I have sometimes wondered if the Scout and Rockies were more successful then the Devils would celebrate them more.  Between the 8 years they were in KC and Denver, they had only made the playoffs once and that was because their division was incredibly weak and the playoff format back then benefiting them.  The biggest stars between those two teams were probably McDonald (who wasn't on the team all that long), Chico, Beck, Ramage (also only played a short time and later didn't want to move to NJ), Paiement, Robert (was already starting to be past his prime and started to become more and more injured).  Outside of those they really didn't have much big names to really latch onto.

The Ottawa thing is indeed weird and they really should be embarrassed.  Vancouver did something similar with their Millionaires alternate jersey.  It's a team that played 100 years ago and never even played in the NHL.  Only connection was that they played in the same city.

The Vancouver thing isn't that bad to me because it's more of a brief nod to local hockey history...snagging the history of a long-defunct hockey franchise and deciding to claim their championships is something else entirely.  What the new Sens did was a complete joke.

As you know, I'm very familiar with Scouts and Rockies history...Paiement and McDonald were their best players (Paiement was traded for McDonald in a multi-player deal...McDonald was actually quite bummed about being traded again less than two years later).  Ramage played three seasons with the Rockies and was a staggering -133 (shows how awful those teams were more than anything else).  And yeah, it was crazy that the 77-78 Rockies made the playoffs...19 wins in 80 games pretty much says it all...they won exactly TWO road games all season long.  Chico was a solid goalie at the end of his prime who didn't stand a chance on that team...they were abysmal defensively.  Unfortunately Beck was dealt under the usual circumstances:  lose the best player in the trade and get a batch of decent and/or pretty good bodies in return.  Always quality for quantity.

[Daniel]

And now it looks like kneeling during the anthem is coming to the NHL.  

http://bayareane.ws/2xz0gfI

Thanks SJWs for ruining something else.  I would suggest that Ward not come to the United States if he hates the place so much.  Who am I kidding, I guess he's got principles and all, but he loves loves his giant paycheck.  

[Triumph]

Yeah, Ward's probably best remembered by non-hockey fans as the target of online racist invective when he scored a series-winner against Boston; I can't see what problems he would have with continued racial inequality and discrimination.

I can't tell who's doing irony here, but I would be surprised if this happens only insofar as hockey is obsessed with players not becoming 'a distraction' - the worst thing you can do as a teammate is have a media person ask a question about someone who isn't you and isn't about hockey.

 

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Yeah, Ward's probably best remembered by non-hockey fans as the target of online racist invective when he scored a series-winner against Boston; I can't see what problems he would have with continued racial inequality and discrimination.

I can't tell who's doing irony here, but I would be surprised if this happens only insofar as hockey is obsessed with players not becoming 'a distraction' - the worst thing you can do as a teammate is have a media person ask a question about someone who isn't you and isn't about hockey.

 

I knew someone would bring that up.  And you know what, boo f'n hoo hoo.   He's a multi millionaire who plays a game for a living.  He will be able to basically retire in his late thirties.  Not one team or player has somehow discriminated against him.  Some drunk people in the stands called him names, and I'm sure nasty ones.  I'm pretty sure, actually positive, I could go on living just fine if I had his job, and some people yelled anti-Semitic epithets at me.  I wouldn't make a custom that's been in North American sports for a long time all about me or my grievances.

[Devil Dan 56]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

I knew someone would bring that up.  And you know what, boo f'n hoo hoo.   He's a multi millionaire who plays a game for a living.  He will be able to basically retire in his late thirties.  Not one team or player has somehow discriminated against him.  Some drunk people in the stands called him names, and I'm sure nasty ones.  I'm pretty sure, actually positive, I could go on living just fine if I had his job, and some people yelled anti-Semitic epithets at me.  I wouldn't make a custom that's been in North American sports for a long time all about me or my grievances.

A few drunk fans? I'm guessing you didn't even bother to read your own article

[Triumph]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

I knew someone would bring that up.  And you know what, boo f'n hoo hoo.   He's a multi millionaire who plays a game for a living.  He will be able to basically retire in his late thirties.  Not one team or player has somehow discriminated against him.  Some drunk people in the stands called him names, and I'm sure nasty ones.  I'm pretty sure, actually positive, I could go on living just fine if I had his job, and some people yelled anti-Semitic epithets at me.  I wouldn't make a custom that's been in North American sports for a long time all about me or my grievances.

So accepting that you deeply envy athletes and think that they have it easy, even though Ward's career has been anything but - Ward doesn't have relatives who've experienced discrimination, or friends?  He just exists on an island, a man alone, cut out from society and the people around him.  This sort of attitude - that millionaires shouldn't say anything because they've got it great, how ungrateful - is exactly why he should do this.  I mean, it won't change your mind, and it may not raise awareness, but Ward has to live a life  after he retires from hockey.  I doubt the racial discrimination stops when he takes the skates off for the last time.

[CommonDreads]

I don't like to talk politics/social issues on sports forums, but the moniker of "You play a game for a living so you can't speak out on the struggles of others" is such a load of crap. Professional athletes have a platform to bring attention to those who feel disenfranchised or threatened in this country, every day people can't say that. Joel Ward could sit in that locker room and count his bills as much as he wants, but he'd rather help stand for something he believes in. But, I'm just gonna leave it at that.

[Daniel]

First, I have never said that this about saying someone can't express their views.  Spout off on twitter, go to demonstration at the White House, join a riot for all I care.  Sporting events should not be politicized like that.

And I don't resent atheletes for their money, and I don't think it means it stops them from having an opinion on whatever.  I am saying though that's it's a wee bit curious to make a gesture that demonstrates disrespect for the country (yes that's what is, don't bother debating it) that has made you wealthier and more comfortable than 99.999 percent of the planet.  

['7']

27 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Yeah, Ward's probably best remembered by non-hockey fans as the target of online racist invective when he scored a series-winner against Boston; I can't see what problems he would have with continued racial inequality and discrimination.

I can't tell who's doing irony here, but I would be surprised if this happens only insofar as hockey is obsessed with players not becoming 'a distraction' - the worst thing you can do as a teammate is have a media person ask a question about someone who isn't you and isn't about hockey.

 

Non hockey fans have no idea who Joel Ward is.

I agree with you that this will probably not spread to the NHL, but if it did then I think the NHL owners would move quickly to just confine the teams to the locker rooms or tunnels during the anthems like the NFL wishes it did for this season. That way it's out of sight, out of mind,

[Triumph]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

First, I have never said that this about saying someone can't express their views.  Spout off on twitter, go to demonstration at the White House, join a riot for all I care.  Sporting events should not be politicized like that.

And I don't resent atheletes for their money, and I don't think it means it stops them from having an opinion on whatever.  I am saying though that's it's a wee bit curious to make a gesture that demonstrates disrespect for the country (yes that's what is, don't bother debating it) that has made you wealthier and more comfortable than 99.999 percent of the planet.  

Well, I know you struggle with math, but there is absolutely no way that Joel Ward is in the 99.999th percentile of wealth in the world, or even close, nor is he in that percentile of comfort - plenty of people earn $1.5M after taxes a year who do not have to keep themselves in peak physical shape, fly all over the country, take physical punishment as a result of playing hockey, and so on.  And this is also part of the problem - the idea that athletes are some of the richest people in our society.  They're not even close.  There probably isn't an athlete in the top 500 wealthiest people in the United States.  At Giants Stadium on Sundays even outside the owners box, I bet you can find a guy who makes more money in a year than the entire Giants team. 

I'm also not allowed to debate something that's clearly quite debatable.

Joel Ward can have as much money as he wants.  It will not stop him from being pulled over by the police, nor will it likely stop his children from facing discrimination if they try to play hockey.  And that's not 'the price he pays'.  So, fine, if you object to the method of protest, okay, but it sure doesn't sound like that's your only objection to this.

 

[RizzMB30]

5 minutes ago, Triumph said:

So accepting that you deeply envy athletes and think that they have it easy, even though Ward's career has been anything but - Ward doesn't have relatives who've experienced discrimination, or friends?  He just exists on an island, a man alone, cut out from society and the people around him.  This sort of attitude - that millionaires shouldn't say anything because they've got it great, how ungrateful - is exactly why he should do this.  I mean, it won't change your mind, and it may not raise awareness, but Ward has to live a life  after he retires from hockey.  I doubt the racial discrimination stops when he takes the skates off for the last time.

He's free to do what he wants in terms of taking a knee, whatever, he has that choice, but you just made the point that these kinds of things are easily seen as distractions by people (teams and players) and he has the live with that decision.

I just saw people comparing NFL players to Rosa Parks on Facebook the other day.  These athletes don't risk their jobs by taking a knee.  There hasn't been one player that's been released or cut due to them taking a knee.  You're not edgy just because you took a knee.  Rosa Parks was risking a lot more than pampered athletes.  She was breaking unjust laws because they were unjust, not to signal how much virtue is bursting out of your soul. 

No more political stuff from me.

[Daniel]

22 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

A few drunk fans? I'm guessing you didn't even bother to read your own article

See here's the thing about that.  It's a country of 320 million people and 37 million in Canada where those racist tweets might have been coming from for all we know.  People will say mean things to you on twitter, and someone can make a death threat without consequences.  Ward was not the first guy or the last guy that's going to happen to.  Unless he is saying that it's an injustice that there isn't some sort of law against people saying racist things to you on twitter (the death threat is something else, which can be investigated if it's serious enough), his beef is with specific individuals not the country.

I imagine if I had a big enough twitter following or whatever, I would get the anti-Semitic treatment for some of my views, what I do for a living  or my general station in life.   You know what, I would not stop loving this country for all it has given me, and I would not sit in my seat during the anthem at a game, or something like that.  Yeah it's a punch line to douchey losers like Greg Whyshinski, but I don't give a sh!t.

[Triumph]

3 minutes ago, RizzMB30 said:

He's free to do what he wants in terms of taking a knee, whatever, he has that choice, but you just made the point that these kinds of things are easily seen as distractions by people (teams and players) and he has the live with that decision.

I just saw people comparing NFL players to Rosa Parks on Facebook the other day.  These athletes don't risk their jobs by taking a knee.  There hasn't been one player that's been released or cut due to them taking a knee.  You're not edgy just because you took a knee.  Rosa Parks was risking a lot more than pampered athletes.  She was breaking unjust laws because they were unjust, not to signal how much virtue is bursting out of your soul. 

No more political stuff from me.

Colin Kaepernick does not have an NFL job this season. He's not the greatest quarterback in the NFL, but I doubt he doesn't have a job because everyone's decided he's finished.

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Well, I know you struggle with math, but there is absolutely no way that Joel Ward is in the 99.999th percentile of wealth in the world, or even close, nor is he in that percentile of comfort - plenty of people earn $1.5M after taxes a year who do not have to keep themselves in peak physical shape, fly all over the country, take physical punishment as a result of playing hockey, and so on.  And this is also part of the problem - the idea that athletes are some of the richest people in our society.  They're not even close.  There probably isn't an athlete in the top 500 wealthiest people in the United States.  At Giants Stadium on Sundays even outside the owners box, I bet you can find a guy who makes more money in a year than the entire Giants team. 

I'm also not allowed to debate something that's clearly quite debatable.

Joel Ward can have as much money as he wants.  It will not stop him from being pulled over by the police, nor will it likely stop his children from facing discrimination if they try to play hockey.  And that's not 'the price he pays'.  So, fine, if you object to the method of protest, okay, but it sure doesn't sound like that's your only objection to this.

 

Many of the assertions you make in your last paragraph are statistically and factually untrue.  

[Devil Dan 56]

3 minutes ago, RizzMB30 said:

He's free to do what he wants in terms of taking a knee, whatever, he has that choice, but you just made the point that these kinds of things are easily seen as distractions by people (teams and players) and he has the live with that decision.

I just saw people comparing NFL players to Rosa Parks on Facebook the other day.  These athletes don't risk their jobs by taking a knee.  There hasn't been one player that's been released or cut due to them taking a knee.  You're not edgy just because you took a knee.  Rosa Parks was risking a lot more than pampered athletes.  She was breaking unjust laws because they were unjust, not to signal how much virtue is bursting out of your soul. 

No more political stuff from me.

It could be argued that at least one player has been blackballed for this. That being said, it's not about risk. It's bigger than that. Its calling attention to something. And from the looks of the news recently, it's causing a discussion. That was the goal. 

[RizzMB30]

Just now, Triumph said:

Colin Kaepernick does not have an NFL job this season. He's not the greatest quarterback in the NFL, but I doubt he doesn't have a job because everyone's decided he's finished.

He's definitely not a starter.  He opt-ed out of a contract in SF.  'nuff said.  

Off-topic.

[Devil Dan 56]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

See here's the thing about that.  It's a country of 320 million people and 37 million in Canada where those racist tweets might have been coming from for all we know.  People will say mean things to you on twitter, and someone can make a death threat without consequences.  Ward was not the first guy or the last guy that's going to happen to.  Unless he is saying that it's an injustice that there isn't some sort of law against people saying racist things to you on twitter (the death threat is something else, which can be investigated if it's serious enough), his beef is with specific individuals not the country.

I imagine if I had a big enough twitter following or whatever, I would get the anti-Semitic treatment for some of my views, what I do for a living  or my general station in life.   You know what, I would not stop loving this country for all it has given me, and I would not sit in my seat during the anthem at a game, or something like that.  Yeah it's a punch line to douchey losers like Greg Whyshinski, but I don't give a sh!t.

You definitely didn't read the article. He mentioned in it that he has dealt with being pulled over and other treatment that was related to his race. He also said he spoke to the coach and gm. 

Also. He hasn't taken a knee yet. The fact that you're this mad at something that hasn't happened and potentially won't is confusing. 

[RizzMB30]

5 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

It could be argued that at least one player has been blackballed for this. That being said, it's not about risk. It's bigger than that. Its calling attention to something. And from the looks of the news recently, it's causing a discussion. That was the goal. 

Everything is about risk. It's risk/reward. 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by RizzMB30

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Colin Kaepernick does not have an NFL job this season. He's not the greatest quarterback in the NFL, but I doubt he doesn't have a job because everyone's decided he's finished.

And I'm sure the same people crying over Kaepernick were outraged when James Damore got fired or Brandon Eich had to resign.  Or when a mob forced Brett Weinstein out of his job at Evergreen State.  You live on Neptune if you think the bulk of people losing work over political or social views are on the left side of the spectrum.  

And I'm glad no team is signing Kaepernick, and I wouldn't want him on my team. He's a pseudo intellectual wannabe revolutionary.  He objectively supports Communist dictatorships (not that he would ever want to live under one of course) and is sympathetic to the murder of police officers.  In the same way, I wouldn't want a holocaust denier on my team either.  Free speech and all, it works both ways.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Daniel