2016-2017 Lineup Thread

[Nicomo]

11 minutes ago, Gunslinger27 said:

I understand what coach Hynes was saying about physicality, 2017 draft maybe adding a little size and grit might help.  I have been saying this for a while, As team we are just not physical on Defense or Offense. 

Hell, the only guy who looks physical out there is Taylor Hall. That's been a pleasant surprise, as I didn't really know that was part of his game when he was in Edmonton.

[titans04]

Fighting Majors by team

 

The whole deterrent thing is almost comical in today's game.  Who's he going to deter noted enforcer Kevin Klein?  Look at the list attached here, the teams in our division have so few fights so who are all these tough guys we're trying to neutralize?   WHere are all these teams dressing guys who's only skill is fighting?  The mentality is so flawed it's scary.  Now roll out a team of babysh!t soft players that's a problem, but that's not going to be solved by Luke Gadzic.  

 

 

[Gunslinger27]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

Hell, the only guy who looks physical out there is Taylor Hall. That's been a pleasant surprise, as I didn't really know that was part of his game when he was in Edmonton.

Agreed on Hall, hes a gamer, Im getting tired of watching us, get manhandled..... 

['7']

15 hours ago, Triumph said:

I have a rock that keeps tigers away.  I don't see any tigers around, so it must be that rock.

 

Several Flyers said their brawl in a blowout loss against Washington on Friday has unified the team and served as a much-needed spark and rallying cry.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inqflyersreport/Flyers-say-brawl-has-united-team.html

When the players say it helped, that means it helped

Edited December 15, 2016 by '7'

[Marshall]

26 minutes ago, '7' said:

Several Flyers said their brawl in a blowout loss against Washington on Friday has unified the team and served as a much-needed spark and rallying cry.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inqflyersreport/Flyers-say-brawl-has-united-team.html

When the players say it helped, that means it helped

Sure, that's exactly how everything works. I bet the questions weren't even leading...

Edited December 15, 2016 by Marshall

['7']

1 minute ago, Marshall said:

Sure, that's exactly how everything works. I bet the questions weren't even leading...

I think what they say plus their play after this article came out is a pretty safe bet that that brawl DID have an overwhelmingly positive impact

[titans04]

Looking forward to a Gadzic one man brawl.  It will not instill one additional single bit of grit into anyone else on this team.  You can't instill that players either have it or don't, most of ours don't.  That combination along with under performing players like Henrique and Palmeri and a handful of marginally talented guys and not much is going to change any time soon. However,  I'm not sure why some had expected more from this bunch.  Hall was a tremendous acquisition no doubt about that, most if not all the rest, meh.

 

As for the flyers they have  more talent and grit on that roster.  That could have something to do with it.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by titans04

[MadDog2020]

Some news on Patty, though not much has changed: http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/longtime-devil-elias-still-going-through-the-process-of-deciding-about-future


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[Triumph]

2 hours ago, '7' said:

I think what they say plus their play after this article came out is a pretty safe bet that that brawl DID have an overwhelmingly positive impact

Hockey players are told from a very young age that fighting matters.  Whether or not it does is anyone's guess. 

[mfitz804]

34 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Hockey players are told from a very young age that fighting matters.  Whether or not it does is anyone's guess. 

As a kid, I remember playing goalie on a team, I had just joined and I didn't really know anyone, got along fine but I still felt on the outside. One game there was a bit of a brawl (brawl being subjective in 13 year old hockey, there were no actual fights, just pushing, shoving, some gloved shots to the helmet, etc.), and the other team's goalie got involved. Knowing it was my moment, I charged down the ice to engage the other team's goalie, much to everyone's surprise. I got thrown out of the game, but after that day, I was part of the team and they played much, much harder in front of me. The entire dynamic changed based on that fight. 

[NJDfan1711]

16 hours ago, titans04 said:

Fighting Majors by team

 

The whole deterrent thing is almost comical in today's game.  Who's he going to deter noted enforcer Kevin Klein?  Look at the list attached here, the teams in our division have so few fights so who are all these tough guys we're trying to neutralize?   WHere are all these teams dressing guys who's only skill is fighting?  The mentality is so flawed it's scary.  Now roll out a team of babysh!t soft players that's a problem, but that's not going to be solved by Luke Gadzic.  

 

 

I love when people just immediately point to fights as the ultimate sign of a tough guy.  Sure, the definition of a 'goon' is usually a guy who can do little more than fight, but when I think of toughness and physicality, I'm not just referring to the goons and guys who can't do anything.  It's why I've always been a fan of having big d-men, not only in height, but weight/muscle too.  Finishing your checks, crushing guys at the blue line, and making them afraid to enter your zone is just as effective and a sign of toughness as dropping the gloves and going toe to toe with someone for a minute before the ref inevitably breaks up what was most likely little more than some jersey pulling anyway.  And it's those hits and checks that can boost a team's confidence and energy, and turn the tables on your opponent.  A guy like Stevens is such a good example.  Average height, I think he was like 6'2" or something?  But insanely big and brute, not afraid to throw his body around, and hell, he was basically an expert at that.  Other guys of similar nature -- even our boy Daneyko, similar though not quite as punishing or effective.  Chris Pronger, excellent example.  Huge guy who you were afraid to take a hit from.  Rob Blake, Darius Kasparitis.  None of those guys fought all that much, at least not in terms of the regularity of a typical "goon", and they certainly did a lot more on the ice in terms of production and/or defense than your typical goon does.  And it's not even limited to defenders, though like I said that is my preference of where to add size.  Plenty of offensemen are gritty and productive too, without fighting a ton or being a "goon" and out there just for the sake of dropping the gloves.  Michael Peca, Dino Cicarelli, on and on and on.

 

Bottom line is calling up Gazdic doesn't necessarily mean it's strictly about adding a goon to the lineup and all he's going to do is fight.  And hell, even if it is 8 minutes as you mentioned, I hardly see that as a "waste" -- that 8 minutes isn't being robbed from someone else who's magically going to use that time and turn it into 2 or 3 goals and give us a win.  All it would be is absorbed by another 4 liner, one who in your eyes wouldn't have any physicality to him and, based on the talent on our team, also not reach the back of the net, so really, if you ask yourself, how is this worse than what we've currently been fielding?

Edited December 15, 2016 by NJDfan1711

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I love when people just immediately point to fights as the ultimate sign of a tough guy.  Sure, the definition of a 'goon' is usually a guy who can do little more than fight, but when I think of toughness and physicality, I'm not just referring to the goons and guys who can't do anything.  It's why I've always been a fan of having big d-men, not only in height, but weight/muscle too.  Finishing your checks, crushing guys at the blue line, and making them afraid to enter your zone is just as effective and a sign of toughness as dropping the gloves and going toe to toe with someone for a minute before the ref inevitably breaks up what was most likely little more than some jersey pulling anyway.  And it's those hits and checks that can boost a team's confidence and energy, and turn the tables on your opponent.  A guy like Stevens is such a good example.  Average height, I think he was like 6'2" or something?  But insanely big and brute, not afraid to throw his body around, and hell, he was basically an expert at that.  Other guys of similar nature -- even our boy Daneyko, similar though not quite as punishing or effective.  Chris Pronger, excellent example.  Huge guy who you were afraid to take a hit from.  Rob Blake, Darius Kasparitis.  None of those guys fought all that much, at least not in terms of the regularity of a typical "goon", and they certainly did a lot more on the ice in terms of production and/or defense than your typical goon does.  And it's not even limited to defenders, though like I said that is my preference of where to add size.  Plenty of offensemen are gritty and productive too, without fighting a ton or being a "goon" and out there just for the sake of dropping the gloves.  Michael Peca, Dino Cicarelli, on and on and on.

 

Bottom line is calling up Gazdic doesn't necessarily mean it's strictly about adding a goon to the lineup and all he's going to do is fight.  And hell, even if it is 8 minutes as you mentioned, I hardly see that as a "waste" -- that 8 minutes isn't being robbed from someone else who's magically going to use that time and turn it into 2 or 3 goals and give us a win.  All it would be is absorbed by another 4 liner, one who in your eyes wouldn't have any physicality to him and, based on the talent on our team, also not reach the back of the net, so really, if you ask yourself, how is this worse than what we've currently been fielding?

Well stated. I just don't know which type of guy Gadzic is. I am pretty confident he's not Blake, Kasparitis, Pronger, Ciccarelli, or even Peca. 

[titans04]

4 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I love when people just immediately point to fights as the ultimate sign of a tough guy.  Sure, the definition of a 'goon' is usually a guy who can do little more than fight, but when I think of toughness and physicality, I'm not just referring to the goons and guys who can't do anything.  It's why I've always been a fan of having big d-men, not only in height, but weight/muscle too.  Finishing your checks, crushing guys at the blue line, and making them afraid to enter your zone is just as effective and a sign of toughness as dropping the gloves and going toe to toe with someone for a minute before the ref inevitably breaks up what was most likely little more than some jersey pulling anyway.  And it's those hits and checks that can boost a team's confidence and energy, and turn the tables on your opponent.  A guy like Stevens is such a good example.  Average height, I think he was like 6'2" or something?  But insanely big and brute, not afraid to throw his body around, and hell, he was basically an expert at that.  Other guys of similar nature -- even our boy Daneyko, similar though not quite as punishing or effective.  Chris Pronger, excellent example.  Huge guy who you were afraid to take a hit from.  Rob Blake, Darius Kasparitis.  None of those guys fought all that much, at least not in terms of the regularity of a typical "goon", and they certainly did a lot more on the ice in terms of production and/or defense than your typical goon does.  And it's not even limited to defenders, though like I said that is my preference of where to add size.  Plenty of offensemen are gritty and productive too, without fighting a ton or being a "goon" and out there just for the sake of dropping the gloves.  Michael Peca, Dino Cicarelli, on and on and on.

 

Bottom line is calling up Gazdic doesn't necessarily mean it's strictly about adding a goon to the lineup and all he's going to do is fight.  And hell, even if it is 8 minutes as you mentioned, I hardly see that as a "waste" -- that 8 minutes isn't being robbed from someone else who's magically going to use that time and turn it into 2 or 3 goals and give us a win.  All it would be is absorbed by another 4 liner, one who in your eyes wouldn't have any physicality to him and, based on the talent on our team, also not reach the back of the net, so really, if you ask yourself, how is this worse than what we've currently been fielding?

I agree  like I said Gadzic isn't going to instill one bit of grit into any of the soft guys out there.  Meaning for example every guy on the ice when Price and Klein were pounding away.  Guys are too busy staring at their own skate laces.  

[Gunslinger27]

21 minutes ago, titans04 said:

I agree  like I said Gadzic isn't going to instill one bit of grit into any of the soft guys out there.  Meaning for example every guy on the ice when Price and Klein were pounding away.  Guys are too busy staring at their own skate laces.  

lol, Is Gadzooks even playing tonite !

[Gunslinger27]

Well he's in ! Watch out...... LUKE

[jagknife]

Shake. Up. The. Damn. Defense!

[Nicomo]

41 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Shake. Up. The. Damn. Defense!

[Marshall]

On 12/15/2016 at 5:18 PM, '7' said:

I think what they say plus their play after this article came out is a pretty safe bet that that brawl DID have an overwhelmingly positive impact

The main goal when speaking to the media is to not upset anyone or create a story. If a bunch of guys were in a fight you can't say "well it didn't matter". 

[jagknife]

On 12/15/2016 at 9:27 PM, Nicomo said:

Yes, but you can turn it from diahreeah to possible loose stools ....

[sundstrom]

Quote

 

Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord

Zacha Parenteau and Bennett remain on the ice as extras along with Cory Schneider

What in the actual fvck.

I mean, I'm glad josefson is drawing back in if for nothing else than to play PP wall instead of henrique who might as well wear the other team's jersey out there then.

But to pull zacha out and keep fvcking gazdic in there - was the example in st. louis not eye opening enough to realize that there was no "spark" from this jabroni?

This season has always been about continuing the transition to a good team. Yes, Taylor Hall theoretically sped that up, but not by enough that possible pieces of the future (like zacha and bennett) sit so the likes of gazdic, DSP, and kalinin can continue to play because there is some ridiculous notion that these players "help you win tonight." honestly, i'd sit fiddler but that's not happening (room guy, vet, etc. - never mind the fact that he's getting destroyed out there). that 9-3-3 start might actually be the worst thing that happened to this team from a development standpoint.

every year there are coaches decisions where someone says "my guy is sitting for someone that should be." this happened plenty last year w/ the likes of the tootoo's and farnham's and gionta's. I complained then also but there wasn't much else other than calling up guys from albany and while i disagreed with the idea that it's better for them to play in albany, i understood it.

the staff is at least a little better this year. wood is staying (and getting top 6 minutes). lappin is staying (although perhaps the bloom is off that rose a bit).

but this is not only not putting out the best roster for tonight...it's not the best roster for the future either.

against a team like ottawa that's missing hoffman tonight and is not a strong offensive team - tonight's the night you try to get guys going. instead - double shifts and 4:00 of gazdic - why? so he can scrap with Chris fvcking Neil?

i am praying that tomorrow vs NYR is the last we see of gazdic in the lineup while able bodied guys ride the bench.

[jagknife]

19 minutes ago, sundstrom said:

What in the actual fvck.

I mean, I'm glad josefson is drawing back in if for nothing else than to play PP wall instead of henrique who might as well wear the other team's jersey out there then.

But to pull zacha out and keep fvcking gazdic in there - was the example in st. louis not eye opening enough to realize that there was no "spark" from this jabroni?

This season has always been about continuing the transition to a good team. Yes, Taylor Hall theoretically sped that up, but not by enough that possible pieces of the future (like zacha and bennett) sit so the likes of gazdic, DSP, and kalinin can continue to play because there is some ridiculous notion that these players "help you win tonight." honestly, i'd sit fiddler but that's not happening (room guy, vet, etc. - never mind the fact that he's getting destroyed out there). that 9-3-3 start might actually be the worst thing that happened to this team from a development standpoint.

every year there are coaches decisions where someone says "my guy is sitting for someone that should be." this happened plenty last year w/ the likes of the tootoo's and farnham's and gionta's. I complained then also but there wasn't much else other than calling up guys from albany and while i disagreed with the idea that it's better for them to play in albany, i understood it.

the staff is at least a little better this year. wood is staying (and getting top 6 minutes). lappin is staying (although perhaps the bloom is off that rose a bit).

but this is not only not putting out the best roster for tonight...it's not the best roster for the future either.

against a team like ottawa that's missing hoffman tonight and is not a strong offensive team - tonight's the night you try to get guys going. instead - double shifts and 4:00 of gazdic - why? so he can scrap with Chris fvcking Neil?

i am praying that tomorrow vs NYR is the last we see of gazdic in the lineup while able bodied guys ride the bench.

Great post

As this skid continues, Hynes is making more and more end of Deboer type moves: ice time for dogsh!t players instead of guys who have actually produced.

While I dont want Hynes gone, its getting harder and harder to justify some of the moves as well as the performace of the team game in and out is starting to become uninspired, that is a direct testament to both the coaching leadership as well as the leadership in the locker room. Someone needs to step the hell up and not just check the boxes when being interviewed by the media.

Edited December 17, 2016 by jagknife

[Devil Dan 56]

You know, all those years I thought Lou was behind these kinds of things. When a young guy sat for a Cam Janssen or a Rob Neider-glider, I thought Lou was pulling the strings and that stuff should stop when he was gone. But nope. Apparently it's just a hockey thing that every coach does. 

[DevilMinder]

You have to look at the bigger picture

Good article, nothing groundbreaking but it has some overview thoughts from Hynes/Shero

Quote

“We’re trying to build a program that’s down,” Hynes said. “An acquisition like Hall and you see some of the younger guys come in and we have some depth at goaltending and things like that. But it’s an extremely competitive league, and when we don’t have that [strong play] and get in situations like that, we get in these little funks that we were in. Guys are working through it and we’re working through it.”

 

[jagknife]

I like the defensive pairings last night. Aside from his losing CK gaffe, Greene made Lovejoy bring his game up a bit.

To me it felt as though we had a responsible defender paired with a risk taker, in a sense. Give them another game or two and if they put forth the effort that the did last night on a 60 minute basis, they could find themselves right back on their winning ways.

[MadDog2020]

You have to look at the bigger picture
Good article, nothing groundbreaking but it has some overview thoughts from Hynes/Shero

“We’re trying to build a program that’s down,” Hynes said. “An acquisition like Hall and you see some of the younger guys come in and we have some depth at goaltending and things like that. But it’s an extremely competitive league, and when we don’t have that [strong play] and get in situations like that, we get in these little funks that we were in. Guys are working through it and we’re working through it.”

 

Good read.


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