New York Mets 2016-2017 Offseason Thread

['7']

15 hours ago, Hi, I'm VALUE! said:

I love the story about the Dodgers asking the Mets to put reference markers on Citi Field.  Did they really think that was going to happen?

Can't blame them, thanks to Fred Wilpon trying to recreate his magical childhood field of dreams, they probably did think they were home ;-)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

12 minutes ago, '7' said:

Eh. Ok with eliminating the four pitches, though we have seen some goofy happenings (wild pitches resulting in runners scoring, HBP's, intentional walk base hits) it's rare but it's cool to see sometimes. Also I kind of like it when a slugger gets walked and the crowd boos during all 4 pitches as a shame for perceived cowardice.

I also recall Joe Torre's idiotic extra innings suggestion of starting every top half of an inning with a man on 2nd. Not sure where they're at with experimenting with this in the minors but I hope the idea never gets legs. The MLB really needs to stop listening to and treating Torre like some holy guru. He's not.

For as little impact as it's going to make in the grand scheme, I would've left the four-pitch intentional walk in, but what are you going to do?  It's not like intentional walks go awry so often that the "unthinkable" happens. 

Torre has gotten SO much more mileage out of being in the right place at the right time than he's ever deserved...I don't have anything against him, and I'm not going to say he doesn't deserve ANY credit for managing the Yankees to so many championships, but yeah, he gets treated with way too much respect from MLB. 

9 minutes ago, '7' said:

Can't blame them, thanks to Fred Wilpon trying to recreate his magical childhood field of dreams, they probably did think they were home ;-)

Fred's never going to live that down, and he shouldn't.  Only the Wilpons could find a way to make fans actually miss Shea a bit.  Scary how many misfires there were in CitiField's early history, in what should've been a slam-dunk no-doubt-about-it improvement over the old building.  The Mets have amended Citi a bit, and it's a pretty good ballpark all-around (I still think of is as fine but kind of non-descript), but one of many examples of how the Wilpons don't seem to know what to do until someone tells them how to do it.  It would be so nice if they could just once figure out how to do something properly without screwing it up and reacting to backlash just once...but they are not good people and never will be.  And FWIW, I think Jeffy is far worse than Fred. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

21 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

For as little impact as it's going to make in the grand scheme, I would've left the four-pitch intentional walk in, but what are you going to do?  It's not like intentional walks go awry so often that the "unthinkable" happens. 

Torre has gotten SO much more mileage out of being in the right place at the right time than he's ever deserved...I don't have anything against him, and I'm not going to say he doesn't deserve ANY credit for managing the Yankees to so many championships, but yeah, he gets treated with way too much respect from MLB. 

Fred's never going to live that down, and he shouldn't.  Only the Wilpons could find a way to make fans actually miss Shea a bit.  Scary how many misfires there were in CitiField's early history.  The Mets have amended Citi a bit, and it's a pretty good ballpark all-around (I still think of is as fine but kind of non-descript), but one of many examples of how the Wilpons don't seem to know what to do until someone tells them how to do it.  It would be so nice if they could just once figure out how to do something properly without screwing it up and reacting to backlash just once...but they are not good people and never will be.  And FWIW, I think Jeffy is far worse than Fred. 

Interesting thing about Citi is how many Yankee fans love it. They loved it when it opened and they continue to gush about Citi Field. I've been to the New Yankee Stadium for various things and it's a nice stadium in its own right...but I get the feeling it's just not beloved or "special" to the Yankee fan. Plus it's so expensive that they can't make it there on a regular basis. And you have that odd moat phenomenon where the Yankees have these two blocks of empty seats behind the dugouts seemingly always since they cost 1k a game or something

The Citi early years disaster could've so been avoided if the Wilpons were not so insulated and out of touch with the fan base. There is nobody, in 2009, who had any sort of love, affinity, and adoration for the Dodgers here or wanted anything resembling Ebbets back. Fred essentially built it for himself and not for us. I've warmed up to it but the Mets have always been about what's new...they're not an old pre 1940's fanchise. To me they still don't quite "fit" at Citi though things have gotten a lot better with the blue walls, normal dimensions, and more Mets stuff. They also fell into a happy accident with the new seats on top of the shorter wall in left being incredibly popular. They footprint of the stadium could still stand to be bigger. It's almost unnecessarily small for a NY team.

I can't wait until they start developing the area around it. That will really bring the area up and make it a summer destination. As it is you have 5 million people cramming into McFaddens. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

51 minutes ago, '7' said:

Interesting thing about Citi is how many Yankee fans love it. They loved it when it opened and they continue to gush about Citi Field. I've been to the New Yankee Stadium for various things and it's a nice stadium in its own right...but I get the feeling it's just not beloved or "special" to the Yankee fan.

The Citi early years disaster could've so been avoided if the Wilpons were not so insulated and out of touch with the fan base. There is nobody, in 2009, who had any sort of love, affinity, and adoration for the Dodgers here or wanted anything resembling Ebbets back. Fred essentially built it for himself and not for us. I've warmed up to it but the Mets have always been about what's new...they're not an old pre 1940's fanchise. To me they still don't quite "fit" at Citi though things have gotten a lot better with the blue walls, normal dimensions, and more Mets stuff. They also fell into a happy accident with the new seats on top of the shorter wall in left being incredibly popular. 

I can't wait until they start developing the area around it. That will really bring the area up and make it a summer destination. As it is you have 5 million people cramming into McFaddens. 

I had no idea that Yankee fans loved Citi so much.  I think new Yankee Stadium did a pretty good job encompassing both old and renovated Yankee Stadium...but I've a heard a lot about how it lacks "flow"...I think there's something about it that lacks soul (I've been there for a few games myself).  As far as Yankee fans go, the old building will probably never be replaced in their hearts...I think this new Yankee Stadium feels like a really good imitation of Yankee Stadium to their fanbase, but it's not quite like the real thing. 

Yeah, the Brooklyn Dodger influence on the Mets' home came about 30 years too late to have any relevance.  I didn't mind the Ebbets Field influence on the exterior and rotunda (what a stupid word "rotunda" is), but it should've stopped there.  Brooklyn Dodger T-shirts were actually made available in the CitiField sports shops...fvcking REALLY FRED?!  You said it perfectly...Fred absolutely built it for himself, and in doing so gave the fans yet another reason for them to hate the Wilpons, and to alienate them further. 

I agree, even with the obvious improvements, the place still doesn't feel quite like home.  We know Shea had many flaws and was simply too old, and I don't want it back, but there was something simple and organic about it, and it felt like OUR place.  Shea had a certain (almost goofy) charm in spite of itself.  I don't know if Citi will ever quite have the same feel. 

It's funny, I don't know if you ever watch any of those "Mets Yearbook" shows narrated by Bob Murphy on SNY, but the one for 1963 shows Shea well along in its construction...it was considered so state-of-the-art for its time.  My uncle took me to a game for the first time there in 1977 (I had just turned 7), and though I have a pretty good memory, I don't really remember that, for some reason.  I didn't go back there until 1989, when the Mets played against the Reds...I remember this game pretty well, because Tim Teufel had been plunked by Rob Dibble the day before, and there had been a big brawl as a result.  Dibble came in the game that I saw, and of course got booed mercilessly...he was intimidating as hell back then.  Well, the Mets had a 4-2 lead at that point in the game (Mets manufactured a run earlier in the inning...Norm Charlton had given up a leadoff double to Gregg Jefferies, then Dibble came in with one on and no outs...Jefferies moved to third on a ground out, then scored on a SF).  I admit it...these details I had to look up, but what happens next I DO remember:  the crowd started chanting "Diiiiiiiiii-buuuull...diiiiiiiiii-buuuull..."...and somehow Rick Aguilera (left in the game to hit for himself...he had come on in relief) worked out a walk...Dibble did seem to be getting rattled.  Juan Samuel came up next and hit a 2-run jack, and the place went absolutely nuts...Dibble was taken out of the game after that, and the crowd really let him have it.  Going to that game was a big deal to me...I was only 19 at the time (just turned), and going into the city by myself (well, with my then-girlfriend, who bought the tickets as a b-day gift) made me feel very grown up.  Though I don't remember every last detail, I will always remember Samuel's dinger, and how insanely loud the place got.  Hadn't experienced anything like it, at that point in my sports life.

The box score:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN198907090.shtml

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

What an experience...and 46k that day too. Can't even get that many into Citi with standing room only nowadays. That was probably also Samuel's lone shining moment as a Mets. 

Shea was interesting. It was pre cookie cutter but sometimes gets unfairly lumped in with the Riverfront, Vet, Busch cookie cutters because it was multi use. Because it was a horseshoe with a massive open end, a ton of seats were packed and stacked on top of each other in 3/4 of the stadium with basically no outfield seats. Plus the material that it was made of amplified the sound so much...during peak moments it definitely had a Qwest Field effect. If they actually finished the horseshoe and enclosed Shea it would likely seat around 90,000.

And it actually did shake, especially the field level seats along the 1st and 3rd base lines that used to straighten out when the football field was painted. You could definitely feel Shea move.

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

It WAS an amazing experience, for a regular season game.  I had actually been to the city a few times before (one time to get a fake ID at 16 years old, lol), without "elders"...but going to Shea as a barely-legal adult still felt like a big deal to me at the time...larger than life somehow.  And yeah, Shea could definitely get LOUD.  I was at one of the Mets-Braves playoff games, when John Rocker was getting every possible thing screamed at him as he sprinted onto the field.  I was also there for a 9th-inning comeback against Mark Wohlers (think it was 1997...think Carlos Baerga got the game-winning hit)...the girl I was with was the one who made me stay, because I didn't the think the Mets were coming back down 5-3 against Wohlers.  And I was there for the Clemens-Piazza rematch, where Shawn Estes threw behind Clemens, but later hit a 3-run shot off him.  Building was deafening for all of those games.  I've heard that Estes was done in the locker room after that game, as far as his teammates went, for chickening out and not plunking Clemens (and supposedly Clemens had told Estes that as long as he hit him in back, leg, or keister, he wouldn't go after him). 

I miss that "larger than life" feeling I used to get from attending sporting events...I still enjoy going very much, especially now that my daughter likes going to Devils games with me...but there used to be almost a kind of mystique and wonder that I just don't feel anymore.  Guess that's what starts to happen as we approach 50 years of age.  I'll be 47 in June.

And yeah, that McDowell and Dykstra for Samuel trade was a disaster...McDowell went to the Phillies and promptly threw something like 27 consecutive scoreless innings or thereabouts.  What's interesting about that deal was that it was the reason Dykstra (by his own admission) supposedly went on roids.  He went to Philly and was given an everyday job (something he'd always complained not getting about as a Met, which drove Davey Johnson crazy), and quickly began to wear down...he started popping more greenies for pep, but that just caused him to lose weight and become even weaker...he played so poorly down the stretch for the Phils that the Phils actually offered him back to the Mets, who wanted no part of him.  Dykstra realized that he couldn't physically handle playing everyday (or get bigger contracts) without "assistance", so someone hooked him up...and then suddenly, he showed up to the following spring looking like a miniature version of the Hulk.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Syndergaard renewed for $605,500...should be arb-eligible next season.  The cheap years for these arms are rapidly (and sadly) coming to an end.  All the more reason it will be nice if guys like Lugo and Gsellman can indeed step in once these guys start to get too pricey to keep around.  The Mets are never going to operate like a big-market team, so might as well get used to the fact that at least one of the young guns won't be here soon (possibly as soon as 2018).

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Harvey topped out at 94 mph, but apparently lost velocity as his outing went on.  Pitched with a stiff neck as well.  Not good.  Definitely have no expectations for him at this point.  

Edited March 6, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Harvey topped out at 94 mph, but apparently lost velocity as his outing went on.  Pitched with a stiff neck as well.  Not good.  Definitely have no expectations for him at this point.  

Yea he definitely got battered around the other day. I mean a lot of really good pitchers have unspectacular going through the motions type springs but for Harvey it is important to prove that he can at the very least get people out...looked like a continuation of last year. Harvey called it a good first step but I don't know...this is such a rare and unusual procedure he had, I really can't expect much from him either. Gsellman and Lugo had nice small sample sized efforts for us last year but I just can't tell...do these guys actually have the pure stuff to be something good or were they middling guys on a nice run?

Cespedes continues to mash. They did end up scoring 11 runs vs. St. Louis.

 

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I think the Dark Knight days are definitely over.  Doesn't mean that Harvey can't find ways to stick in the league and still be effective (plenty of guys have adjusted to diminished velocity/less electric stuff), but I think we're now talking about someone who's going to be very average going forward.  Just a hunch.  Even Harvey's postgame comments seems to suggest "I'm not setting any expectations for myself, and neither should anyone else."   

['7']

14 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think the Dark Knight days are definitely over.  Doesn't mean that Harvey can't find ways to stick in the league and still be effective (plenty of guys have adjusted to diminished velocity/less electric stuff), but I think we're now talking about someone who's going to be very average going forward.  Just a hunch.  Even Harvey's postgame comments seems to suggest "I'm not setting any expectations for myself, and neither should anyone else."   

How humbling must this be for him...I mean you just know he had visions of that 200+ million dollar contract and putting on the Yankee cap as flash bulbs pop. Probably not going to happen anymore. But we did have that brief window when he was phenomenal. He was really the first inkling that things could turn around soon...but he fizzled out so so fast and if we ever reach the promised land I doubt he'll ever be a major part of it. 

I would sign for average from Harvey. If he can give us a Colon type year (he won't pitch his kind of innings) but make most of your starts and keep us competitive. 11-10. 3.90 type ERA coming off what he just had. Take it in a heartbeat.

Our core going forward is Thor/deGrom. Matz I hope will settle in as a really good 3rd starter. Wheeler I have little faith in as well.

Edited March 6, 2017 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, '7' said:

How humbling must this be for him...I mean you just know he had visions of that 200+ million dollar contract and putting on the Yankee cap as flash bulbs pop. Probably not going to happen anymore. But we did have that brief window when he was phenomenal. He was really the first inkling that things could turn around soon...but he fizzled out so so fast and if we ever reach the promised land I doubt he'll ever be a major part of it. 

I would sign for average from Harvey. If he can give us a Colon type year (he won't pitch his kind of innings) but make most of your starts and keep us competitive. 11-10. 3.90 type ERA coming off what he just had. Take it in a heartbeat.

I'd take average from him at this point too...the fact is not too many teams have beasts from 1 through 5 in the rotation.  But this offense is going to need to produce a little...and even if they keep raking in spring, I've seen that from the Mets before...it won't surprise me much if they go back to being the maddening un-clutch K-prone bunch they've always been.  I still see the Mets being in a lot of tight low-scoring games this season...which means Harvey can't consistently give up 3-4 runs and expect to win. 

The thing about Colon is that, as we now, his overall season ERAs was never really symbolic of how he actually performed, especially in 2014 and 2015...he'd have those 7 or 8 batting-practice starts (even less last season), but would give his team a reasonable chance to win in just about all of the rest of his games...it's almost too bad that he pitched for a team the past three seasons that was so meh offensively...he could've won 50+ over the past three seasons combined, instead of just 44. 

['7']

Brett Lawrie is floating out there...so is Kelly Johnson. Hope we sign one of them because we'll definitely need them.

['7']

10 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'd take average from him at this point too...the fact is not too many teams have beasts from 1 through 5 in the rotation.  But this offense is going to need to produce a little...and even if they keep raking in spring, I've seen that from the Mets before...it won't surprise me much if they go back to being the maddening un-clutch K-prone bunch they've always been.  I still see the Mets being in a lot of tight low-scoring games this season...which means Harvey can't consistently give up 3-4 runs and expect to win. 

The thing about Colon is that, as we now, his overall season ERAs was never really symbolic of how he actually performed, especially in 2014 and 2015...he'd have those 7 or 8 batting-practice starts (even less last season), but would give his team a reasonable chance to win in just about all of the rest of his games...it's almost too bad that he pitched for a team the past three seasons that was so meh offensively...he could've won 50+ over the past three seasons combined, instead of just 44. 

You just shake your head at how Colon can even do it since it looks like he may break a sweat just going up the dugout steps. And yet there he was on 95 degree days in Atlanta throwing gems.

There really is something to be said for making your starts, impeccable control, eating up innings. It has such a net positive effect on the rest of the team, it helps the pen...and generally the rest of the team knows what they're going to get when Tolo got the ball.

There are much younger guys with much better stuff who will never be able to do that. He never got frazzled, total workmanlike effort. I know I've said it a million times but I would bet my life he's back here when Harvey or Wheeler hit the 60 day DL, or if Lugo/Gsellman falter. I doubt he finishes the year in Atlanta.

Even now I almost still see him as a Met "on loan" to Atlanta.

Edited March 6, 2017 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

8 minutes ago, '7' said:

You just shake your head at how Colon can even do it since it looks like he may break a sweat just going up the dugout steps. And yet there he was on 95 degree days in Atlanta throwing gems.

There really is something to be said for making your starts, impeccable control, eating up innings. It has such a net positive effect on the rest of the team, it helps the pen...and generally the rest of the team knows what they're going to get when Tolo got the ball.

There are much younger guys with much better stuff who will never be able to do that. He never got frazzled, total workmanlike effort. I know I've said it a million times but I would bet my life he's back here when Harvey or Wheeler hit the 60 day DL, or if Lugo/Gsellman falter. I doubt he finishes the year in Atlanta.

Even now I almost still see him as a Met "on loan" to Atlanta.

I think it's definitely one of those "wait and see" things, but if you think about it, the Mets really played this perfectly.  Let Colon get his work in with the Braves, with the Braves paying him...if age finally catches up to him and he finally pitches like the old man that he is, it's not the Mets' problem.  The Mets have some time to check out the health of the many young arms they've got, and see if they can all stay healthy and effective.  You've got Plan Bs in place, with Gsellman and Lugo.  If everything goes wrong (and it definitely could), you can go deal for Colon later in season, with the Braves having already paid a chunk of this year's contract.  It will be interesting to see what the Braves would ask though, if Colon is turning in another 2016-type season. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

They did play this one well yes. Guess I have to give Sandy some credit for it.

Still don't really know what to expect of Lugo and Gsellman. They pitched well but the sample size was very small. And Lugo is kind of a late bloomer. But I can't say I was every truly blown away with their stuff. 

Another thing that's encouraging (and it may totally be meaningless in the end) but it is good to see d'Arnaud hitting during spring training. Just hope he stays reasonably healthy and isn't a disaster throwing to 2nd. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, '7' said:

They did play this one well yes. Guess I have to give Sandy some credit for it.

Still don't really know what to expect of Lugo and Gsellman. They pitched well but the sample size was very small. And Lugo is kind of a late bloomer. But I can't say I was every truly blown away with their stuff. 

Another thing that's encouraging (and it may totally be meaningless in the end) but it is good to see d'Arnaud hitting during spring training. Just hope he stays reasonably healthy and isn't a disaster throwing to 2nd. 

Yeah, if Colon is indeed re-acquired, it's a sign that a lot of things went wrong...one of which would be Gsellman and/or Lugo not pitching well enough to stave off Sandy having to go outside of the organization, because both are going to get chances, and it looks like the 5th spot in rotation is currently Gsellman's to lose (Wheeler's going to stay in Florida for extended spring training, and supposedly won't pitch more than 120 innings or so).  I agree, don't know what to really expect from either of them, but at least they didn't come up and promptly get knocked around last season. 

['7']

I remember when we first acquired Wheeler I believe some SF scout (or somebody inside baseball) mentioned he would be nothing more than a good reliever. Most brushed it off at the time but that may end up being the case eventually. Capping him at 120 means if he goes about 6 a start (and sometimes he struggled to even do that) he would be done at 20 starts. And guaranteed he's hooked in the 4th and 5th of games where he is starting to look like a bald John Maine. They won't let him have 30+ pitch innings either I bet.

If he somehow makes it 15 starts in and looks good and we're rolling I hope we raise the innings cap. This is technically a go for the World Series year. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice on the future.

I still remember games when he did put it together he looked absolutely uninhabitable for stretches. His pitches had such great movement and made batters look like fools. Then in the 4th he would walk the bases loaded and throw it to the backstop.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I've always thought of Wheeler as a right-handed Al Leiter, with slightly better stuff...Leiter was the king of 3-2 counts, no matter who the batter was.  Wheeler's problem was always laboring too much, being at 85+ pitches by the fifth inning.  And sadly, with two missed seasons in his youth, the Leiter comparison makes as much as sense now as it ever did.  Leiter missed a ton of time in his mid-20s, before somehow putting together a pretty nice career for himself.

But yeah, at some point, Sandy's gotta push all of the chips to the middle of the table, instead of just being giddy about being allowed to sit in the game.  This offseason was still not great...he basically kept a flawed team intact.  A lot of iffy guys that Sandy's betting on. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I think it's definitely one of those "wait and see" things, but if you think about it, the Mets really played this perfectly.  Let Colon get his work in with the Braves, with the Braves paying him...if age finally catches up to him and he finally pitches like the old man that he is, it's not the Mets' problem.  The Mets have some time to check out the health of the many young arms they've got, and see if they can all stay healthy and effective.  You've got Plan Bs in place, with Gsellman and Lugo.  If everything goes wrong (and it definitely could), you can go deal for Colon later in season, with the Braves having already paid a chunk of this year's contract.  It will be interesting to see what the Braves would ask though, if Colon is turning in another 2016-type season. 

Of course the possible fly in the ointment with that is if the Braves do build on their decent second half and at least hang on the fringe of the race long enough where they're not sellers this time

['7']

Also the Tebow circus finally rolls into town on Wednesday vs Boston where he will make his Grapefruit League debut. Actually surprised he hasn't been more of a distraction by now.

['7']

5 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Of course the possible fly in the ointment with that is if the Braves do build on their decent second half and at least hang on the fringe of the race long enough where they're not sellers this time

Could happen, they do have some annoying, pesky hitters. But to me that starting staff is just so hittable. They'll hit some but be on the losing end of a lot of 9-6 games.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

58 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Of course the possible fly in the ointment with that is if the Braves do build on their decent second half and at least hang on the fringe of the race long enough where they're not sellers this time

It's definitely too early to act like the Braves are just keeping Colon warm for the Mets until they decide that they need him back.  Even if he still pitches well, and even if the Braves struggle to the point where they decide that hanging onto him makes no sense, they might still try to get too much out of the Mets, and cause Sandy to look elsewhere.  But I still think Sandy gambled correctly on this one, especially since the Braves gave Colon some pretty nice coin. 

54 minutes ago, '7' said:

Also the Tebow circus finally rolls into town on Wednesday vs Boston where he will make his Grapefruit League debut. Actually surprised he hasn't been more of a distraction by now.

Take the whole Jesus thing away and no one's paying attention to him.  He's obviously a terrific physical specimen and seems like a good person who wouldn't hurt a fly, but in the end, he's just not a very good professional athlete.  Some people just lose their minds over this guy, and it's baffling to me. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Colorado Rockies 1976

['7']

39 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's definitely too early to act like the Braves are just keeping Colon warm for the Mets until they decide that they need him back.  Even if he still pitches well, and even if the Braves struggle to the point where they decide that hanging onto him makes no sense, they might still try to get too much out of the Mets, and cause Sandy to look elsewhere.  But I still think Sandy gambled correctly on this one, especially since the Braves gave Colon some pretty nice coin. 

Take the whole Jesus thing away and no one's paying attention to him.  He's obviously a terrific physical specimen and seems like a good person who wouldn't hurt a fly, but in the end, he's just not a very good profession athlete.  Some people just lose their minds over this guy, and it's baffling to me. 

Some of it is his own stubbornness. If he was honest with himself and just quit QB'ing and truly focused on being an NFL jack of all trades he could've still been in the league and useful in SOME small capacity on some stacked roster who could afford his luxury.

Though on the flip side it wasn't the best sign that when even the Patriots can't make something of you chances are nobody will.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

And speaking of Leiter...I know it kind of got ugly for him here at the end...many fans thought Leiter and a few other players (like Franco) had the ear of the front office when it came to personnel decisions, and some blamed Leiter and others for Scott Kazmir being dealt.  But from a pure performance standpoint, the Mets really did get a lot more out of him than they had any right to expect. 

For one, he remained remarkably healthy, making 28-33 starts in each of his 7 seasons as a Met (averaging a little over 30 per season...there was no reason to expect that Leiter would ever be so reliable from a pure health standpoint).  And his control (a problem everywhere else, though over much smaller sample sizes) was actually pretty good as a Met, especially in his first five seasons with the team (3.4 per 9 IP from 1998-2002, 3.6 per 9 IP for his Met career...he was over 5 BB per 9 IP everywhere else, which made up about 43% of his MLB career).  3.42 ERA as a Met with a ERA+ of 125 (100 is average).  And though the BBs and high pitch counts could be maddening at times, Leiter usually found ways to minimize the damage (His 3.42 Met ERA was well below his Met FIP of 3.92).  His 95-67 record here probably could've been a bit better...he was still pitching pretty well in 2001 and 2002 (going just 24-24), while the Mets were finishing well below .500 in each of those seasons. 

What's kind of funny about him is that he seems very knowledgeable about pitching in general...he was talking about mechanics on the MLB network, demonstrating how he always pictured an imaginary string connecting his arm to his leg...when you see his windup, it makes a lot of sense.  It's funny because it never really looked all that easy for him, even in his prime.  His career trajectory was so odd...he had a nice peak that was basically his entire Met career (with a couple of hints at what he could be as a Blue Jay and a Marlin), but that peak probably came about 5 years later than anyone would've guessed.

Might have been this clip re:  Leiter talking pitching...John Smoltz is in it too:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=al+leiter+pitching&&view=detail&mid=9BEE6C4A6319349E117B9BEE6C4A6319349E117B&FORM=VRDGAR