New York Mets 2016-2017 Offseason Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, '7' said:

Some of it is his own stubbornness. If he was honest with himself and just quit QB'ing and truly focused on being an NFL jack of all trades he could've still been in the league and useful in SOME small capacity on some stacked roster who could afford his luxury.

Though on the flip side it wasn't the best sign that when even the Patriots can't make something of you chances are nobody will.

I heard BB was doing Tebow a favor, that no matter what, Tebow was never going to be a part of the Patriots beyond preseason.  I think if they had actually committed themselves to finding some kind of role for Tebow, based on Tebow actually realizing he was not an NFL QB despite that freak "every possible thing breaking right" run he enjoyed with Denver, the Pats could've found a use for him.  But yeah, I agree...if Tebow had just accepted that he could be a football player and not a QB, his career could've been different...not spectacular by any stretch, but definitely different.  And his disciples would've loved every minute of it.

['7']

Matz threw 2 innings vs Miami. 3 hits, 1k, 0 runs. 

Conforto and d'Arnaud continue to rake. d'Arnaud hit a HR. Rosario had a hit and is now a small sampled .316, good to see regardless. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Only spring of course, no point in making that big of a deal out of anything, but so far, through 11 GP (7-4 record):

Met team slash:  .302/.372/.486 (.858 OB+SLG)

Met pitching staff:  3.95 team ERA, .236 BAA, 3.3 BB/per 9 IP

And Montero is trying to force his way back into relevance:  7 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 10 K so far.  Would still be a stunner if the Mets could get something out of him. 

['7']

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Only spring of course, no point in making that big of a deal out of anything, but so far, through 11 GP (7-4 record):

Met team slash:  .302/.372/.486 (.858 OB+SLG)

Met pitching staff:  3.95 team ERA, .236 BAA, 3.3 BB/per 9 IP

And Montero is trying to force his way back into relevance:  7 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 10 K so far.  Would still be a stunner if the Mets could get something out of him. 

I haven't seen much of Montero but when I did see him his stuff remind me of Wheelers. Maddening but if he can harness it he can be very good. I know he's worked as both starter and reliever in the past and he could be the type of guy who comes on in 2nd/3rd 1 out situations to get a few K's and then start the next inning. But as of now I still don't trust his control.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, '7' said:

I haven't seen much of Montero but when I did see him his stuff remind me of Wheelers. Maddening but if he can harness it he can be very good. I know he's worked as both starter and reliever in the past and he could be the type of guy who comes on in 2nd/3rd 1 out situations to get a few K's and then start the next inning. But as of now I still don't trust his control.

What's so odd about Montero is that he was an absolute control beast when he was initially quickly ascending up the minor league ladder...that began to change once he reached the PCHell, and he's never really gotten it back...even after being demoted to AA last season, he walked 19 in 49 IP (one of the reasons I couldn't really get too excited about his other AA numbers...that, and a 25-year-old with major-league and considerable AAA experience pitching better in AA is pretty much to be expected).  In 114 minor league games, he's only come on in relief six times, so I still think of him as a starter at this point, though his only path to the majors on this team is going to be the bullpen...he's just fallen too far down the depth chart, and Gsellman and Lugo deserve to have chances ahead of him.  He's in a tough spot, because if he keeps having a good spring but is a victim of numbers, then he might get stuck in PCHell AGAIN...which I think would probably be the worst thing for him. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Surprise, Tebow sucks at baseball.  Can the Mets stop with this sideshow crap now?  Isn't this season supposed to be about trying to get back to the World Series?  

[NJDevs4978]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Surprise, Tebow sucks at baseball.  Can the Mets stop with this sideshow crap now?  Isn't this season supposed to be about trying to get back to the World Series?  

Guess they needed something to occupy the media with 15 players at the WBC

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Guess they needed something to occupy the media with 15 players at the WBC

And that's how some in the media are defending the Mets' decision to play him...that with so many players in the WBC, that it's not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.  But at the same time, I'm sorry, you need to have some semblance of skills to be able to play in a MLB game, even if it's only spring training.  The guy obviously is never going to be cut out to play in the majors...he'll probably struggle in the low minors and fizzle out before too long.  The whole thing is just very annoying, and I just wish the fvcking Wilpons could go one season without doing something that makes them look clueless and amateur.  Great, so you're selling some Tebow merchandise and pocketing a little coin...was it really worth it?  I know the Jesus freaks who think Tebow literally walks on water love everything the guy does, but I've gotta think that the majority of Met fans just find this whole thing to be annoying as hell, and completely unnecessary in every way.

[NJDevs4978]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

And that's how some in the media are defending the Mets' decision to play him...that with so many players in the WBC, that it's not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.  But at the same time, I'm sorry, you need to have some semblance of skills to be able to play in a MLB game, even if it's only spring training.  The guy obviously is never going to be cut out to play in the majors...he'll probably struggle in the low minors and fizzle out before too long.  The whole thing is just very annoying, and I just wish the fvcking Wilpons could go one season without doing something that makes them look clueless and amateur.  Great, so you're selling some Tebow merchandise and pocketing a little coin...was it really worth it?  I know the Jesus freaks who think Tebow literally walks on water love everything the guy does, but I've gotta think that the majority of Met fans just find this whole thing to be annoying as hell, and completely unnecessary in every way.

Yeah if you were going to rate players in the Met organization combining MLB-AAA-AA-high A-low A-whatever, assuming you're talking 25 on each roster and a total of 125 players organizationally (it's probably more than that) Tebow'd probably rank 125th in terms of baseball IQ/skill, or 124th at most.

I'm not sure how many players were invited to major league camp, but let's say it was 50 - and 15 of them are gone - albeit replaced by minor league camp invites like TT - and about half the rest are pitchers.  That's still at least 15 or so players Tebow has to leapfrog for AB's.  But it's 'only spring training' and we gave Garth Brooks ST AB's years ago and other teams gave Will Ferrell AB's, there's always gonna be something offbeat, especially with ST longer than ever this year.

Edited March 9, 2017 by NJDevs4978

['7']

I too would end the Tebow thing sooner than later (though I have to admit he does have a nice looking swing from the left side...I like it a lot better than Ike Davis) but this team is supposed to be a World Series contender. Why saddle them with a circus like Tebow?

My fear is if he starts running into some fastballs he may be more difficult to jettison. Dump him before he hits a lucky streak or something.

Edited March 9, 2017 by '7'

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Yeah if you were going to rate players in the Met organization combining MLB-AAA-AA-high A-low A-whatever, assuming you're talking 25 on each roster and a total of 125 players organizationally (it's probably more than that) Tebow'd probably rank 125th in terms of baseball IQ/skill, or 124th at most.

I'm not sure how many players were invited to major league camp, but let's say it was 50 - and 15 of them are gone - albeit replaced by minor league camp invites like TT - and about half the rest are pitchers.  That's still at least 15 or so players Tebow has to leapfrog for AB's.  But it's 'only spring training' and we gave Garth Brooks ST AB's years ago and other teams gave Will Ferrell AB's, there's always gonna be something offbeat, especially with ST longer than ever this year.

I get that, but the key difference is that with those guys, you knew it was only going to be a temporary thing...Tebow is actually trying to make a go of this (though the Mets should put a stop to it, right now), and he has his cult following that isn't capable of realizing that being into Jesus doesn't mean you should get opportunities to play professional sports by default...and that performance and results actually mean something.  Tebow was a lousy NFL QB and he's a lousy baseball player.  If he was some untapped project that could potentially become even a decent major-league hitter (hell, even a guy who could hit dingers off the bench), I'd say fvck it, yeah, the crap that comes with him is annoying, but maybe he can actually help the Mets some day.  But there's nothing there.  We saw it yesterday.  The Met organization isn't his personal fantasy camp. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

deGrom with four more scoreless innings today.  Montero now has 12 K in 8 spring innings.  And no Tebow in the lineup.  3rd HR for Cespedes.

 

 

['7']

Syndergaard has supposedly had bronchitis for weeks...just diagnosed.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-noah-syndergaard-has-had-bad-bronchitis-for-six-weeks-the-mets-say/

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Nothing can EVER be simple with the Mets.  Only this team. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

More meh pitching from Harvey.  Gotta wonder if he even sticks in the rotation this year.  If he's performing like he did last season, he can't be a lock to take a turn every fifth day.  Especially with the Mets having some rotational depth.

['7']

15 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

More meh pitching from Harvey.  Gotta wonder if he even sticks in the rotation this year.  If he's performing like he did last season, he can't be a lock to take a turn every fifth day.  Especially with the Mets having some rotational depth.

I've heard that it can take up to a year for velocity to return after TOR surgery. Not that it's a common procedure or that there is much data...just from blogs/message boards and such.

This could end up being a long, humbling year for Harvey. Hopefully he regains enough velocity to be passable, and he doesn't miss too many starts (he looks to be in pretty good shape) but 11-11 with a 4.00 era could be in the cards.

I'm willing to not panic yet over his spring results, but this is troubling.

[NJDevs4978]

I know it's hard to get into the WBC, I've tried but I just can't get around to watching the games...but the US team is finally in a championship tomorrow.  Against none other than SETH LUGO pitching for Puerto Rico

He has done very well in this tournament though, it's been a nice showcase for him to build off his finish last year.  I wouldn't be too unhappy if PR wins tomorrow, especially with our old buddy Beltran's last hurrah (presumably) there.

Edited March 22, 2017 by NJDevs4978

['7']

24 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I know it's hard to get into the WBC, I've tried but I just can't get around to watching the games...but the US team is finally in a championship tomorrow.  Against none other than SETH LUGO pitching for Puerto Rico

He has done very well in this tournament though, it's been a nice showcase for him to build off his finish last year.  I wouldn't be too unhappy if PR wins tomorrow, especially with our old buddy Beltran's last hurrah (presumably) there.

Yea I really can't take it seriously, especially with the restrictions they put on it. But they do make $ off of it and these guys need to get their spring training in one way or another.

Beltran still sort of rubs me the wrong way. I know he has a passion for winning, desperately wants a WS (and I'm sure aiming for 3000 hits) and he has been underrated throughout his entire career...maybe it was the footsie he played with the Yankees before (I'm sure regrettably for him) settling for us...and then fulfilling some lifelong dream of playing for the Yankees. It is so odd seeing a first ballot HOFer who has suited up for 7 different teams...and not just a bunch as he bounced around later in his career (Griffey, Piazza, Manny) But this guy IS going into the Hall of Fame with a Mets hat on and I don't think Mets fans have ever been as detached or apathetic towards a legendary players that spent a good chunk of his career here as Beltran. And I totally forgive him for that strike 3. That pitch was pure filth. But there are Mets fans who still want to crucify him for having his bat on his shoulder.

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by '7'

[NJDevs4978]

Beltran should be a first ballot HOF'er but I don't think he will be, in part because of the fact he's underrated even by his own fans, because he (as of yet) hasn't won a WS, and because he doesn't really have a signature team - you are right it's odd a guy with his talent playing with that many teams but of course a few of them did come at the end.  We know about KC not being able to afford him so he was a rent-a-player in Houston, then went to us as a FA, then traded to the Giants near the end of his contract.  And that's started his gypsy existence - Cards, Yankees, Rangers...

I mean yeah he probably wanted to go to the Yankees the first time around but by the same token Scott Stevens wanted to go back to St. Louis, but nobody cares about that now.  Or about Elias seriously considering going the Holik-Gomez route and almost signing with the Rangers.  The real funny thing is Beltran's the most successful FA this franchise has ever signed (Piazza I don't count cause he was a trade/re-signing).  He should get more appreciation for that considering all the damn duds we've signed.

Edited March 22, 2017 by NJDevs4978

['7']

Just now, NJDevs4978 said:

Beltran should be a first ballot HOF'er but I don't think he will be, in part because of the fact he's underrated even by his own fans, because he (as of yet) hasn't won a WS, and because he doesn't really have a signature team - you are right it's odd a guy with his talent playing with that many teams but of course a few of them did come at the end.  We know about KC not being able to afford him so he was a rent-a-player in Houston, then went to us as a FA, then traded to the Giants near the end of his contract.  And that's started his gypsy existence - Cards, Yankees, Rangers...

I mean yeah he probably wanted to go to the Yankees the first time around but by the same token Scott Stevens wanted to go back to St. Louis, but nobody cares about that now.  Or about Elias seriously considering going the Holik-Gomez route and almost signing with the Rangers.  The real funny thing is Beltran's the most successful FA this franchise has ever signed (Piazza I don't count cause he was a trade/re-signing).  He should get more appreciation for that considering all the damn duds we've signed.

Maybe the fans will soften over time after he retires...especially if he comes to Mets functions and makes an attempt to be a part of the organization (thought I see him as the fading away into obscurity type) It doesn't help that he has such a strong connection to the dissapointing 06-08 stretch as well as the dark ages that came after. Other than the big K what is Beltrans lasting memories to Mets fans? Most of them will say skipping out on the Walter Reed visit. Maybe the catch is Houston on that dopey hill in center they used to have? The terrifying collision with Cameron?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Well, at least d'Arnaud is hitting...and he'd better, because he's still a defensive zilch behind the plate...base stealers are now 12-for-12 against him.  

I think we pretty much have to take an "anything that Harvey and Wheeler give the Mets is bonus" approach to this season, because I'm expecting next to nothing from both of them.  In Wheeler's case, since he was only slated for 110 IP or so, I don't consider that a big deal.  With Harvey, it's going to hurt, and it's going to be same thing after each meh-to-poor start:  my mechanics were off, blah blah blah.  If this were deGrom in this situation, I'd be more optimistic because I think deGrom has bulldog in him.  I don't think Harvey has that same battle and fight mentality.

The above aside, I'm excited for the season to get underway.  I actually believe that the Mets can overcome a lousy Harvey if they have to.  I just hope they can hit enough.  This offense has maddeningly frustrating written all over it.

[NJDevs4978]

In Wheeler's case it doesn't matter cause they still have Gsellman and Lugo to replace him (in a way it is great and in a way it's a shame all three of those guys could pitch in a big league rotation - though only the latter two might have the durability to do do - but when healthy there's only room for one).  In Harvey's case it matters because he is going to have to pitch to a 5+ ERA for a LONG time before they even consider yanking him from the rotation.

But yeah between the Devils and the Jets' current state I'm definitely looking forward to the Mets.  It'll be interesting to see how the NL East shakes out - Philly, Atlanta and Miami are all capable of getting into the 80+ win range if things break right but they can't all do it.  The Nats have the closer/bullpen issue and Scherzer's pretty much missing all of ST as far as I can tell.  Their lineup's obviously good and their top five in the rotation is slightly undersold but if anything at all happens to their rotation (as eyes turn to Strausberg) they have real issues there.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

As much as I don't believe in him or trust him, it's really hard at this point to say that Montero hasn't earned a shot to start the season with the big club (whatever his role may be).  I also just can't see any reason to send him back to Vegas...seems like that would be a disaster waiting to happen, unless he's basically told "Just keep throwing strikes and don't worry about the results."  

 

['7']

5 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

As much as I don't believe in him or trust him, it's really hard at this point to say that Montero hasn't earned a shot to start the season with the big club (whatever his role may be).  I also just can't see any reason to send him back to Vegas...seems like that would be a disaster waiting to happen, unless he's basically told "Just keep throwing strikes and don't worry about the results."  

 

It is getting to be now or never for Montero. He's 26, Matz is having some elbow tenderness. Montero has earned a shot and we have to see what we have with him.

This Matz thing I hope is not serious. But it just goes to show how important pitching is. How critical it is to have that depth. I just hope we can have at least once through the rotation this year where we can throw Thor-deGrom-Harvey-Matz-Wheeler

['7']

On 3/25/2017 at 7:11 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Well, at least d'Arnaud is hitting...and he'd better, because he's still a defensive zilch behind the plate...base stealers are now 12-for-12 against him.  

I think we pretty much have to take an "anything that Harvey and Wheeler give the Mets is bonus" approach to this season, because I'm expecting next to nothing from both of them.  In Wheeler's case, since he was only slated for 110 IP or so, I don't consider that a big deal.  With Harvey, it's going to hurt, and it's going to be same thing after each meh-to-poor start:  my mechanics were off, blah blah blah.  If this were deGrom in this situation, I'd be more optimistic because I think deGrom has bulldog in him.  I don't think Harvey has that same battle and fight mentality.

The above aside, I'm excited for the season to get underway.  I actually believe that the Mets can overcome a lousy Harvey if they have to.  I just hope they can hit enough.  This offense has maddeningly frustrating written all over it.

I love deGrom. You can tell when he doesn't have his best stuff...he may give up 2-3 early but he very rarely lets games get away from him and get rocked. deGrom becomes a thinking mans pitcher when he doesn't have it the same way and elite QB adjusts when his top receiver is taken away from him. That is what separates good from great athletes

12-12...wasn't following d'Arnaud's throwing but that is unacceptable. In order for us to put up with those kinds of throwing issues you have to be a really good hitting catcher which d'Arnaud may never be. Because other teams will exploit it...they WILL steal 4-5 bases a game, they will distract and pre occupy your pitchers with constant throws over to first.