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Race To The Bottom Thread


Triumph
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This thread is stupid.  Sure the playoffs look like a longshot now, but sitting in and around 7th worst in the league and guessing/hoping whether or not we'll sink all the way to 3rd from the bottom is just dumb.  fvck anyone who hopes we lose.  

I refuse to believe the rhetoric that there's a massive difference between 4th and 15th.  All you have to do is look at the Patriots in the NFL and the guys that they won with this year.  6 or 7 of their STARTING impact players were either undrafted or taken in late rounds, typically 3rd or 4th round or later.  

The draft is always a crapshoot, and there's hit and misses in every round.   You need to use the information available to you to the best of your ability and hope you make the correct pick, but hoping the Devils suck in order to slide down a few picks and maybe make your job as a GM or scout a little easier is a sh!tty thing to do.

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15 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

This thread is stupid.  Sure the playoffs look like a longshot now, but sitting in and around 7th worst in the league and guessing/hoping whether or not we'll sink all the way to 3rd from the bottom is just dumb.  fvck anyone who hopes we lose.  

I refuse to believe the rhetoric that there's a massive difference between 4th and 15th.  All you have to do is look at the Patriots in the NFL and the guys that they won with this year.  6 or 7 of their STARTING impact players were either undrafted or taken in late rounds, typically 3rd or 4th round or later.  

The draft is always a crapshoot, and there's hit and misses in every round.   You need to use the information available to you to the best of your ability and hope you make the correct pick, but hoping the Devils suck in order to slide down a few picks and maybe make your job as a GM or scout a little easier is a sh!tty thing to do.

This isn't the NFL.  And while the Patriots were lucky to select Tom Brady in the 6th round, where's the next Brady for them?  Regardless, let's forget about football.  Who won the Stanley Cup last year?  The Pittsburgh Penguins.  Two of their best players were taken #1 or #2 overall.   Who came in second?  The San Jose Sharks, using 2nd overall pick Patrick Marleau and 1st overall pick Joe Thornton.  How'd the Sharks get Joe Thornton?  By trading 3rd overall pick Brad Stuart.  So yeah, it matters, and it matters a lot more when you consider that the draft lottery now includes 3 teams and has a flatter payout.

I'll give you the last 15 picks at 4th overall and 15th overall, starting from 2014 and going back to 2000, let's see what 15 guys you would rather have:

4th:  Rostislav Klesla, Stephen Weiss, Joni Pitkanen, Nikolai Zherdev, Andrew Ladd, Benoit Pouliot, Nicklas Backstrom, Thomas Hickey, Alex Pietrangelo, Evander Kane, Ryah Johansen, Adam Larsson, Griffin Reinhart, Seth Jones, Sam Bennett

15:  Artem Kryukov, Igor Knayzer, Jesse Niinimaaki, Robert Nilsson, Alex Radulov, Ryan O'Marra, Riku Helenius, Alex Plante, Erik Karlsson, Peter Holland, Derek Forbort, Cody Ceci, Ryan Pulock, Dylan Larkin

So yeah, just by this, it's certainly possible to draft star players at #15.  Radulov, Karlsson, and probably Larkin are stars.  The issue is that a lot of the rest of the guys at 15 are total washouts.  Meanwhile at 4th overall the only outright bust is Griffin Reinhart.  The Kings got nothing for Thomas Hickey but they were also winning Stanley Cups at the time. 

A loss or two isn't going to kill the franchise, but it could give them a 10% better chance of picking 1st, 2nd, or 3rd overall.

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1 hour ago, Triumph said:

This isn't the NFL.  And while the Patriots were lucky to select Tom Brady in the 6th round, where's the next Brady for them?  Regardless, let's forget about football.  Who won the Stanley Cup last year?  The Pittsburgh Penguins.  Two of their best players were taken #1 or #2 overall.   Who came in second?  The San Jose Sharks, using 2nd overall pick Patrick Marleau and 1st overall pick Joe Thornton.  How'd the Sharks get Joe Thornton?  By trading 3rd overall pick Brad Stuart.  So yeah, it matters, and it matters a lot more when you consider that the draft lottery now includes 3 teams and has a flatter payout.

I'll give you the last 15 picks at 4th overall and 15th overall, starting from 2014 and going back to 2000, let's see what 15 guys you would rather have:

4th:  Rostislav Klesla, Stephen Weiss, Joni Pitkanen, Nikolai Zherdev, Andrew Ladd, Benoit Pouliot, Nicklas Backstrom, Thomas Hickey, Alex Pietrangelo, Evander Kane, Ryah Johansen, Adam Larsson, Griffin Reinhart, Seth Jones, Sam Bennett

15:  Artem Kryukov, Igor Knayzer, Jesse Niinimaaki, Robert Nilsson, Alex Radulov, Ryan O'Marra, Riku Helenius, Alex Plante, Erik Karlsson, Peter Holland, Derek Forbort, Cody Ceci, Ryan Pulock, Dylan Larkin

So yeah, just by this, it's certainly possible to draft star players at #15.  Radulov, Karlsson, and probably Larkin are stars.  The issue is that a lot of the rest of the guys at 15 are total washouts.  Meanwhile at 4th overall the only outright bust is Griffin Reinhart.  The Kings got nothing for Thomas Hickey but they were also winning Stanley Cups at the time. 

A loss or two isn't going to kill the franchise, but it could give them a 10% better chance of picking 1st, 2nd, or 3rd overall.

Those are fair points and I'm not saying there isn't a difference between the 4th and 15th.   But there are still a lot of guys found in later rounds, or even undrafted.  Look at the Blackhawks, 3 cups in the last 6 years.  Guys like Anisimov taken in the 2nd round, Duncan Keith 54th overall, Brian Campbell 154th overall, and of course Panarin not drafted at all and found from overseas.  Another good example, LA with two Cups recently.  Dustin Brown, 13th pick, Toffoli, 47th pick, Tanner Pearson, 30th pick.

 In simplistic terms we have two basic options - grind it out and try to win every game and sneak into the playoffs, or just stop trying so hard and accept the team for what it is, and gradually fall in the standings and end up wherever we end up, most likely and presumably somewhere at or around that number 4 pick.  

In my eyes it will always be better to give 110% effort each night, even if it seems futile in circumstances like we're in now.  Ok, so say you stop trying so hard and given the current talent (or lack thereof) on your team, it would be pretty likely, and perhaps easy, to obtain a higher pick and potentially land one of those star players you mentioned at number 4.  It's still a toss up.  Maybe you land a guy, maybe you don't.  On the flip side, you keep trying, and because anything can happen, maybe you do squeak into that last spot.  And maybe you exit in the first round in 5 games like people would predict.  Or maybe you don't even make the playoffs, and worst case scenario happens, and you fall short by 3 points.  And end up with that no man's land pick of #15.  So what?  You still played some inspired hockey. Gave the fans, and your teammates, a reason to believe.  And who knows, you could still end up with lightning in a bottle and get that star player at #15.  It's only 10 picks higher than you would have gotten had you deliberately tanked and hoped to lose.  Plus, you always have that sliver of hope -- that you make the playoffs, go on a run, and are the Cinderella team in the Cup finals.  Longshot, sure, but that's why you play the game.  You play to win, not to lose and hope for a better draft pick.  fvck that garbage.   I'm getting fired up just thinking about it.  Anyone on my team with that mentality would be shown the door in a second.  There's 30 NHL teams and only 23 roster spots on each.  Millions of guys would kill to claim one of those, and that goes for management and the GM/scouts too.  If you're hoping or even thinking about the club losing to make your life easier next year, go fvck yourself.  Go be the GM of the Coyotes or some other franchise that will perennially suck forever because that's the attitude you have in your head.  I don't care if the road is harder, tough sh!t, and you know what, when you do win the Cup it'll make it that much sweeter knowing you had to do it by working hard, not be sucking nose for 8 years so you were gifted top 3 picks for half a decade a la the Penguins.

/rant

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56 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Those are fair points and I'm not saying there isn't a difference between the 4th and 15th.   But there are still a lot of guys found in later rounds, or even undrafted.  Look at the Blackhawks, 3 cups in the last 6 years.  Guys like Anisimov taken in the 2nd round, Duncan Keith 54th overall, Brian Campbell 154th overall, and of course Panarin not drafted at all and found from overseas.  Another good example, LA with two Cups recently.  Dustin Brown, 13th pick, Toffoli, 47th pick, Tanner Pearson, 30th pick.

 In simplistic terms we have two basic options - grind it out and try to win every game and sneak into the playoffs, or just stop trying so hard and accept the team for what it is, and gradually fall in the standings and end up wherever we end up, most likely and presumably somewhere at or around that number 4 pick.  

In my eyes it will always be better to give 110% effort each night, even if it seems futile in circumstances like we're in now.  Ok, so say you stop trying so hard and given the current talent (or lack thereof) on your team, it would be pretty likely, and perhaps easy, to obtain a higher pick and potentially land one of those star players you mentioned at number 4.  It's still a toss up.  Maybe you land a guy, maybe you don't.  On the flip side, you keep trying, and because anything can happen, maybe you do squeak into that last spot.  And maybe you exit in the first round in 5 games like people would predict.  Or maybe you don't even make the playoffs, and worst case scenario happens, and you fall short by 3 points.  And end up with that no man's land pick of #15.  So what?  You still played some inspired hockey. Gave the fans, and your teammates, a reason to believe.  And who knows, you could still end up with lightning in a bottle and get that star player at #15.  It's only 10 picks higher than you would have gotten had you deliberately tanked and hoped to lose.  Plus, you always have that sliver of hope -- that you make the playoffs, go on a run, and are the Cinderella team in the Cup finals.  Longshot, sure, but that's why you play the game.  You play to win, not to lose and hope for a better draft pick.  fvck that garbage.   I'm getting fired up just thinking about it.  Anyone on my team with that mentality would be shown the door in a second.  There's 30 NHL teams and only 23 roster spots on each.  Millions of guys would kill to claim one of those, and that goes for management and the GM/scouts too.  If you're hoping or even thinking about the club losing to make your life easier next year, go fvck yourself.  Go be the GM of the Coyotes or some other franchise that will perennially suck forever because that's the attitude you have in your head.  I don't care if the road is harder, tough sh!t, and you know what, when you do win the Cup it'll make it that much sweeter knowing you had to do it by working hard, not be sucking nose for 8 years so you were gifted top 3 picks for half a decade a la the Penguins.

/rant

Patrick Kane was drafted 1st overall and Jonathan Toews was picked 3rd overall.   Drew Doughty was selected 2nd overall, and Jack Johnson whom the Kings traded to get Jeff Carter was drafted 3rd overall.  All you're saying here is that you need a mix of players and I totally agree with that.

The point of this thread isn't to hope the Devils stop trying, nor do I think that they will stop trying.  I think the Devils have been trying all year and their results speak for themselves - they're just not a very good team.  It's a thread to document where the Devils are in the standings.  I don't cloud up other threads with this sort of stuff, hoping the Devils lose - in fact, this thread really isn't about rooting for Devils losses so much as acknowledging their inevitability and documenting how they affect the Devils' draft position.

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These conversations are brutal because there are two sides to the argument, both valid. On the one hand, if the team does their best to win every night and falls 4 points out of a playoff spot, then you pick 15th-ish. Mediocre picks lead to mediocre talent which creates a team languishing in mediocrity. An emotional flat line where a team either misses the playoffs or is an easy first round exit every year. If you tank, you have a higher chance of snagging that franchise saving player.

But, in the end, I'm anti-tank. In my opinion, it creates a culture of losing and a sense of uncertainty about the franchise. People forget how close Pittsburgh was from relocating. If it wasn't for Sidney Crosby and a new arena, they might be elsewhere right now. And Crosby is a generational talent. Risking the creation of a failure cloud that turns a team into a laughing stock isn't worth a first round pick could conceivably flame out. Plus, what free agent will want to come to a team that's a dumpster fire?

It's an honor thing for me. Try your best every night, and hope your scouting department is savvy enough to mine gold from the picks you have. And I don't think this is a negative thread, although the title "Race to the Bottom" certainly has a negative connotation. But I'm not saying change it, as I think we're all on the same page: we hope this team wins, but if they can't, then let's keep track of where they could be picking.

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This really isn't about tanking, either.  Tanking only makes sense in very rare circumstances, which the Devils are not in.  You tank when your team is made up almost entirely of players with no value and who won't be there when the tank is over.  Buffalo was right to do it.  Edmonton was too.   It's still really challenging to pull out of a tank - Pittsburgh was lucky to have that lockout season after which they signed a bunch of UFAs.

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NJDFan1711...I'm a huge Patriots fan, and it's not like the Pats took Brady thinking that he would wind up becoming the best QB of his era.  For one, they weren't even sure whether they were going to take Brady or Tim Rattay with that pick, which tells you plenty.  For another, it took the $100 million man in Bledsoe getting hurt for Brady to get his shot, and the fact that Bledsoe suffered such a serious injury (guaranteed to keep him sidelined for a long time) was extremely beneficial to Brady, in that he got needed game experience and was able to grow more comfortable and confident with each passing week; if Bledsoe had suffered a minor injury and is only out 2-4 weeks, maybe he gets another shot to keep his job. 

Basically, the point of the above is fleshing out what Tri said about him...lots of luck involved.  No one takes a guy 199th overall and thinks he's just drafted one of the greats.  If everyone thought he had that kind of potential at the time, he gets scooped up a lot earlier than the 6th round. 

As far as trying/not trying, here's how I break it down:

The PLAYERS should be giving their all as much as humanly possible (and there's always going to be that handful of games where they're not feeling it or are simply gassed).  They're paid to play, not to purposely tank games or mail it in until the next season.  Not like anyone here has earned any passes anyway.

It's obviously a different story with the front office.  Shero has to know that there is no reason to prop up this team with any right now/Band-Aid deals to try to get them to squeak into the playoffs.  They're not ready and it gets reiterated quite clearly during games like last night's.  I agree 100% with Tri in that I think this team does try most of the time, but the talent just isn't there, and as a result, losses are inevitable...and we might as well keep track of where they might draft (and how teams winning around them could help their position).

So I think Shero needs to deal PA Parenteau, Cam (if at all possible), and not worry if any other deals he makes for the future make the Devils a worse team right now.  I saw last season's team luck and overachieve its way into more points than it should've had...I don't need to see that again.  As I said before, not saying they should all quit trying (especially on the ice), just that the organization shouldn't do anything to try to make anything more happen with any short-term fixes.  Keep racking up the picks and pieces for the future. 

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45 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Patrick Kane was drafted 1st overall and Jonathan Toews was picked 3rd overall.   Drew Doughty was selected 2nd overall, and Jack Johnson whom the Kings traded to get Jeff Carter was drafted 3rd overall.  All you're saying here is that you need a mix of players and I totally agree with that.

The point of this thread isn't to hope the Devils stop trying, nor do I think that they will stop trying.  I think the Devils have been trying all year and their results speak for themselves - they're just not a very good team.  It's a thread to document where the Devils are in the standings.  I don't cloud up other threads with this sort of stuff, hoping the Devils lose - in fact, this thread really isn't about rooting for Devils losses so much as acknowledging their inevitability and documenting how they affect the Devils' draft position.

I do agree with all of that, and not at all suggesting you that you personally flood up other threads about the Devils losing, BUT, when the thread is titled "Race to the bottom" it is a little hard to believe it doesn't have subtle hints and implications about tanking and/or trying to see how good of a draft pick we'll get as a result.   That's my only issue.  To have a thread dedicated solely to this, with a title as blatant as that, I think it just sends the wrong message.  

 

14 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

NJDFan1711...I'm a huge Patriots fan, and it's not like the Pats took Brady thinking that he would wind up becoming the best QB of his era.  For one, they weren't even sure whether they were going to take Brady or Tim Rattay with that pick, which tells you plenty.  For another, it took the $100 million man in Bledsoe getting hurt for Brady to get his shot, and the fact that Bledsoe suffered such a serious injury (guaranteed to keep him sidelined for a long time) was extremely beneficial to Brady, in that he got needed game experience and was able to grow more comfortable and confident with each passing week; if Bledsoe had suffered a minor injury and is only out 2-4 weeks, maybe he gets another shot to keep his job. 

Basically, the point of the above is fleshing out what Tri said about him...lots of luck involved.  No one takes a guy 199th overall and thinks he's just drafted one of the greats.  If everyone thought he had that kind of potential at the time, he gets scooped up a lot earlier than the 6th round. 

As far as trying/not trying, here's how I break it down:

The PLAYERS should be giving their all as much as humanly possible (and there's always going to be that handful of games where they're not feeling it or are simply gassed).  They're paid to play, not to purposely tank games or mail it in until the next season.  Not like anyone here has earned any passes anyway.

It's obviously a different story with the front office.  Shero has to know that there is no reason to prop up this team with any right now/Band-Aid deals to try to get them to squeak into the playoffs.  They're not ready and it gets reiterated quite clearly during games like last night's.  I agree 100% with Tri in that I think this team does try most of the time, but the talent just isn't there, and as a result, losses are inevitable...and we might as well keep track of where they might draft (and how teams winning around them could help their position).

So I think Shero needs to deal PA Parenteau, Cam (if at all possible), and not worry if any other deals he makes for the future make the Devils a worse team right now.  I saw last season's team luck and overachieve its way into more points than it should've had...I don't need to see that again.  As I said before, not saying they should all quit trying (especially on the ice), just that the organization shouldn't do anything to try to make anything more happen with any short-term fixes.  Keep racking up the picks and pieces for the future. 

No one takes guys in the 6th round thinking they'll be the next Joe Montana, but that's not the point at all.  The point is that you can fall ass backwards into something great at any time.  Sure you odds are supposed to be better getting a higher pick, and *usually* they are, but it happens ALL the time.  Everyone has their opinion of a player's talents, and it's impossible to say whether he will or won't work with the current set of players on the team that drafts him, and it's also impossible to tell in general if his skill set will transition from the youth/minors/overseas leagues into the pros. 

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50 minutes ago, njskaguy33 said:

These conversations are brutal because there are two sides to the argument, both valid. On the one hand, if the team does their best to win every night and falls 4 points out of a playoff spot, then you pick 15th-ish. Mediocre picks lead to mediocre talent which creates a team languishing in mediocrity. An emotional flat line where a team either misses the playoffs or is an easy first round exit every year. If you tank, you have a higher chance of snagging that franchise saving player.

But, in the end, I'm anti-tank. In my opinion, it creates a culture of losing and a sense of uncertainty about the franchise. People forget how close Pittsburgh was from relocating. If it wasn't for Sidney Crosby and a new arena, they might be elsewhere right now. And Crosby is a generational talent. Risking the creation of a failure cloud that turns a team into a laughing stock isn't worth a first round pick could conceivably flame out. Plus, what free agent will want to come to a team that's a dumpster fire?

It's an honor thing for me. Try your best every night, and hope your scouting department is savvy enough to mine gold from the picks you have. And I don't think this is a negative thread, although the title "Race to the Bottom" certainly has a negative connotation. But I'm not saying change it, as I think we're all on the same page: we hope this team wins, but if they can't, then let's keep track of where they could be picking.

Precisely.  Solid points all around.  And like you said, 5-10 years of losing, and losing BAD, isn't worth what could "potentially" result in some lightning in a bottle draft picks that do pan out the way they're supposed to, in the hopes that you get a high seed in the playoffs and it materializes into a Cup win.  

Lightning are a great example.  They sucked for several years after their Cup win and the lockout.  A bunch of great picks, including a probably one day HoFer in Stamkos, and maybe other great young talents right now, but so far what has it yielded them?  They got close, sure, but those 5-10 years in the middle were awful to endure as a fan, and the fact that it hasn't turned into a Cup yet is even harder.  You just never know, and I'd rather my team be competitive and continue trying, rather than hope they lose and count the days until the season ends and wishing they get a top 5 pick that may or may not be the next Crosby or Kane. 

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using QBs are a barometer for draft strategy is faulty. QBs are the most difficult athletes to grade.. the player with the best skill set fails 80% of the time, or more

in hockey the overwhelming percentages are in favor of the higher picks..and the higher the better winning meaningless games has hurt organizations in all sports

give me losses, with some key wins smattered about

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Yesterday wasn't great for NJ - I mean, yeah, they lost, which they had to do, but Winnipeg, Vancouver, and Dallas also lost.  Winnipeg picked up a point for losing in OT, but only Buffalo picked up 2 points.  The Devils are slipping out of the bottom 5 with the recent wins.

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The Devils are at .500 and are tied with Carolina for 7th worst in the NHL.  This makes expressing the standings easy and I think I will adopt it as a general form - these standings are in games above or below .500.  A team that is + has to lose X games in regulation to be at .500, a team that is minus has to win X games to be at .500.

19.  Calgary +4

20. Tampa Bay +3

21.  Los Angeles +3

22.  Buffalo +2

23.  New Jersey 0

24.  Carolina 0

25.  Winnipeg -1

26.  Vancouver -2

27.  Detroit -2

28.  Dallas -4

29. Phoenix -9

30. Colorado -23

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11 minutes ago, Triumph said:

The Devils are at .500 and are tied with Carolina for 7th worst in the NHL.  This makes expressing the standings easy and I think I will adopt it as a general form - these standings are in games above or below .500.  A team that is + has to lose X games in regulation to be at .500, a team that is minus has to win X games to be at .500.

19.  Calgary +4

20. Tampa Bay +3

21.  Los Angeles +3

22.  Buffalo +2

23.  New Jersey 0

24.  Carolina 0

25.  Winnipeg -1

26.  Vancouver -2

27.  Detroit -2

28.  Dallas -4

29. Phoenix -9

30. Colorado -23

When you put it that way, knowing that 16 teams make the playoffs and seeing that we're 23rd in the league, but also seeing that half of the teams among the 7 teams standing in our way to #16 are in the Western Conference, it's frustrating how close we actually are to a playoff spot, but seemingly will fall just a little short again this year, like we have for the past few seasons.  

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27 minutes ago, Triumph said:

The Devils are at .500 and are tied with Carolina for 7th worst in the NHL.  This makes expressing the standings easy and I think I will adopt it as a general form - these standings are in games above or below .500.  A team that is + has to lose X games in regulation to be at .500, a team that is minus has to win X games to be at .500.

Weren't you the one bitching about people saying records like 25-25-10 are ".500" last season?  You and I had a debate about this very topic.  So now it's OK to refer to what some call "NHL-.500" records as .500 again? 

Anyway, based on everything we've seen to date, looks like the Devils are going to finish somewhere between 80 and 84 points; of course, that could change, depending on what they do at the deadline...the schedule gets a bit harder now as well.  Obviously, if they ever actually decided to go full tank, they could give Kinkaid about half of the remaining starts.  Don't see that happening though.

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Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Weren't you the one bitching about people saying records like 25-25-10 are ".500" last season?  You and I had a debate about this very topic.  So now it's OK to refer to what some call "NHL-.500" records as .500 again? 

Anyway, based on everything we've seen to date, looks like the Devils are going to finish somewhere between 80 and 84 points; of course, that could change, depending on what they do at the deadline...the schedule gets a bit harder now as well.  Obviously, if they ever actually decided to go full tank, they could give Kinkaid about half of the remaining starts.  Don't see that happening though.

Did I say anything about 'NHL .500' in my post?  Read it again, or maybe go read that debate again to familiarize yourself with what it was about.  The Devils are at .500 in terms of points percentage.  They have 60 points in 60 games, which is .500.  'NHL .500' to me is the point at which the average team is at and because of the NHL's idiot math that is not .500, it's .561 so far this year.  

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55 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Did I say anything about 'NHL .500' in my post?  Read it again, or maybe go read that debate again to familiarize yourself with what it was about.  The Devils are at .500 in terms of points percentage.  They have 60 points in 60 games, which is .500.  'NHL .500' to me is the point at which the average team is at and because of the NHL's idiot math that is not .500, it's .561 so far this year.  

You didn't say anything about .500 in point%...you didn't even mention point% in that.  Just that the Devils are .500.  Yes, I agree, they have a .500 point%, and that's the measure I now refer to, as opposed to winning% or games under or over .500.  But they do not have a .500 record, as far as wins and losses go.  They have 25 wins and 35 losses (though I hate lumping in 3-on-3 and SO losses with regulation losses).   

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23 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You didn't say anything about .500 in point%...you didn't even mention point% in that.  Just that the Devils are .500.  Yes, I agree, they have a .500 point%, and that's the measure I now refer to, as opposed to winning% or games under or over .500.  But they do not a .500 record, as far as wins and losses go.  They have 25 wins and 35 losses (though I hate lumping in 3-on-3 and SO losses with regulation losses).   

There is no reason to talk about wins and losses as a percentage in the NHL because of how the standings are determined, like you said.

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The problem I see with NJ and the race to the bottom is that NJ won't really get much worse at the deadline. Losing PAP and Quincey won't really set us back much, if at all. Although, no Quincey guarantees Lovejoy and Moore play! The only teams I can see passing us are Carolina and Winnipeg. I guess the good news is that our future schedule is Metro heavy and teams like the Flyers and Isles need wins

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50 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Mid-round pick at best probably. MAYBE a middling prospect.

 

 

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I'm reserving hope that Shero pulls off a miracle and gets a second or a third for Quincy. Quincy has decent superficial stats on the season (12 points, +5), and is a very movable contract. Also he has 54 playoff games played. He is an easy addition far a team looking for Defensive depth with playoff experience.

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