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So when will the Devils be competitive again?


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12 minutes ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

That was simply a great team.  After winning game 5 in Colorado, they just took it to the Devs.  I do recall in Game 7, when it was either scoreless or down 1-0, Sykora ripping a slapshot that completely beat Roy, but hit the post. Despite not scoring there, Roy had a tremendous ability to be shaken up getting beat with shots that far out (it was just inside the blue line) and I still feel that if Petr scores there, Roy may not have recovered.   Alas.......what can you do.

It's funny, prior to the '02-'03 season, Lou came and spoke at a small breakfast in Howell about the State of the Devils. After he spoke, he sat at my table and I was able to chat with him privately. One of the things I expressed was my frustration that the Devs "could" have won several Cups at that point.............Lou smiled and (paraphrasing) said, "I like to focus on the positives".......lol

Lou is incredibly competitive, I still remember reports that he ripped into the 2001 team after the loss, basically how they could've been great (possibly building a dynasty) but blew it. 01-02 was the first of our painful gag jobs to Carolina, but that team pulled itself together late. If we had a shred of puck luck and OT luck against Carolina then who would stop them on a march to the finals? Toronto? We matched up incredibly well with Toronto and Philly back then. Neither could beat us in a big spot.

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4 hours ago, '7' said:

Lou is incredibly competitive, I still remember reports that he ripped into the 2001 team after the loss, basically how they could've been great (possibly building a dynasty) but blew it. 01-02 was the first of our painful gag jobs to Carolina, but that team pulled itself together late. If we had a shred of puck luck and OT luck against Carolina then who would stop them on a march to the finals? Toronto? We matched up incredibly well with Toronto and Philly back then. Neither could beat us in a big spot.

Once Lou pulled the trigger on McKay-Arnott for Nieuwendyk-Langs, that to me killed any mojo the 2001-02 team might have had...not saying that Lou shouldn't have made the deal, as I think it was very iffy that the 2001-02 Devils would've ever truly gotten it together even if he hadn't made that move.  But Elias and Sykora both seemed lost after that deal, and then of course Sykora misses some games in the playoffs, with some (including Stevens) wondering if he was really so injured that he couldn't play.  Marty also said that he and his teammates weren't big fans of Constantine's coaching methods...it really seemed like that group, after getting to two Cup finals, was really getting kind of full of themselves...Pat Burns was really the right hire at the right time.  I've always felt that Lou never quite believed in that team as constructed prior to the deadline, so he made the first of two big moves to significantly change the dynamic (obviously the Sykora deal in the offseason was the second). 

I've mentioned this before, but I went to that 2002 Game 6 game against the Canes, and they just seemed to be dead.  It was a such a beautiful day, and me and my wife had a great tailgate prior to game time...and within five minutes I said to her "They're getting shut out today, they've got nothing."  She told me not to be such a downer, but there was just such little energy.  The crowd really got on them at the end...I don't think I could've been more disappointed that day.

4 hours ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

It seems a few of us have vivid memories of the great (not just good) days.   The pain and the glory.

It's so hard to get back there

At least we've got memories.  Plenty of "19-nevers" playing in the NHL right now. 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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I thought I had great memories, or we obviously happen to recall different things, but CR, you've definitely jogged my memory on a few things. 

Thanks. Good or bad, great memories

Edited by Jimmy Leeds
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Lou also brought Richer back at the 2002 deadline- that got completely overshadowed by the Arnott/McKay for Langs/Niuewendyk deal of course, but I think we got him for like a 7th rounder... That was the last bit of hockey Richer played before retiring.


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On 3/8/2017 at 6:21 PM, Nicomo said:

Needs to get going if he wants to catch up to Marty in Vezina's too. What's the "king" have so far? 1?

1. Same (surprisingly) for Holtby and Price, as well as Bobrovsky and Rask. Tim Thomas is the last one to get multiple (2). I'll admit, there are some great goaltenders in the game today, so I'm not surprised they're not picking up 2, 3, 4 consecutive Vezinas like back in the day.

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1 hour ago, DJ Eco said:

1. Same (surprisingly) for Holtby and Price, as well as Bobrovsky and Rask. Tim Thomas is the last one to get multiple (2). I'll admit, there are some great goaltenders in the game today, so I'm not surprised they're not picking up 2, 3, 4 consecutive Vezinas like back in the day.

True. That didn't stop Hasek from piling them up when Brodeur and Roy were playing though. 

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On 3/9/2017 at 3:46 PM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I've mentioned this before, but I went to that 2002 Game 6 game against the Canes, and they just seemed to be dead.  It was a such a beautiful day, and me and my wife had a great tailgate prior to game time...and within five minutes I said to her "They're getting shut out today, they've got nothing."  She told me not to be such a downer, but there was just such little energy.  The crowd really got on them at the end...I don't think I could've been more disappointed that day

The way you describe that I think of Rocky in the first fight with Clubber in Rocky III.

I had a similar thought after the first five minutes of Game 5 against the Flyers in 2010 too.  And I was oddly optomistic they would at least win THAT game before it started (not so much the series but I thought at least they'd show up one time at home), but you could tell early there too that they were dead men walking.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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On 3/9/2017 at 10:35 AM, Jimmy Leeds said:

That was simply a great team.  After winning game 5 in Colorado, they just took it to the Devs.  I do recall in Game 7, when it was either scoreless or down 1-0, Sykora ripping a slapshot that completely beat Roy, but hit the post. Despite not scoring there, Roy had a tremendous ability to be shaken up getting beat with shots that far out (it was just inside the blue line) and I still feel that if Petr scores there, Roy may not have recovered.   Alas.......what can you do.

It's funny, prior to the '02-'03 season, Lou came and spoke at a small breakfast in Howell about the State of the Devils. After he spoke, he sat at my table and I was able to chat with him privately. One of the things I expressed was my frustration that the Devs "could" have won several Cups at that point.............Lou smiled and (paraphrasing) said, "I like to focus on the positives".......lol

Hold the phone, Lou in Howell? Interesting. What for? Feel free to PM if private 

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I'm a little late to this but lots of good memories about the group from '00-'01.   Those teams that went to back to back finals really had it all, speed, size, skill.  Since we turned around and won the cup in large part to the contributions of Friesen and Langenbrunner in 2003, it's water under the bridge but I always thought Lou was way to quick to break up something as dominant as the A-Line.   Also, my recollection was that he didn't try all that hard to keep Mogilny either and we went back to being more of a lunch pail team.   It's a shame too because most fans seem to forget just how much of juggernaut the '00-'01 teams were on both ends of the ice. 

As for the OP, i don't think we're really that far off.  Between Henrique, Zajac, Palmieri and some grouping of whoever develops best out of Wood, Quenneville, Bastian, McLeod and Speers, we should be able to ice a really good middle six in two years.  We have one proven top line player in Hall and Zacha looks like he could be a second, so Shero needs to come up with another top line guy, maybe in this draft.  In the back, I think we clearly need at least two more top paring defenders going forward.  If Shero can sign Shattenkirk and possibly acquire a second defenseman from a team like Minnesota or Anaheim before the expansion draft, that situation looks a lot better real fast.   IMO it's no so much that we don't have good players, just not enough that guys playing where they are ideally suited to play.  We have way too many guys playing a line above where they should.    

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On 3/11/2017 at 7:49 AM, Devils Pride 26 said:

Hold the phone, Lou in Howell? Interesting. What for? Feel free to PM if private 

Lol...........not private.   He came to speak as a courtesy to the Western Monmouth Chamber of Commerce.   I put it out there at the time (many years ago) to this board, and only Point showed up. 

He came to Our House Tavern, stayed about one and a half, two hours.   Very, very nice man.

When I told him I was a detective, he told me that what's really important..........I said I'd rather be a pro hockey player.  Very engaging and nice

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8 minutes ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

Lol...........not private.   He came to speak as a courtesy to the Western Monmouth Chamber of Commerce.   I put it out there at the time (many years ago) to this board, and only Point showed up. 

He came to Our House Tavern, stayed about one and a half, two hours.   Very, very nice man.

When I told him I was a detective, he told me that what's really important..........I said I'd rather be a pro hockey player.  Very engaging and nice

Our House Tavern. Awesome stuff. Grew up around the corner. Too bad, I was a squirt back then. Would've been cool to see. 

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I saw this post on HF, and I decided to copy and paste it here because it really illustrates very well what kind of mess Shero was left to clean up. If this doesn't put it into perspective, nothing will: 'This is our roster from the 2014-2015 season (every player that played at least one game for us the season before last); I've bolded the players we still have:

Goalies:

1) Schneider - Still our #1
2) Kinkaid - Still our #2
3) Clemmensen - Retired to become our goalie development coach (39 years old)

Defencemen:

1) Fraser - [emoji23]
2) Gelinas - [emoji23]
3) Hrabarenka - Now plays in the KHL
4) Harrold - [emoji23] Retired (33 years old)
5) Helgeson - [emoji23]
6) Salvador - Retired (41 years old)
7) Zidlicky - Retired (40 years old)
8) Greene - Still decent
9) Larsson - Easily our best defender; traded to the Oilers for Hall
10) Merrill - Finally showing signs of improvement
11) Severson - Our best remaining defender

Forwards:

1) Bernier - (31 years old)
2) Boucher - Waived
3) Brunner - [emoji23] Retired (31 years old)
4) Cammalleri - Looks washed up (34 years old)
5) Clowe - LTIRetired (34 years old)
6) Elias - Essentially Retired (40 years old)
7) Gionta - [emoji23]( 33 years old)
8) Gomez - Retired (37 years old)
9) Havlat - [emoji23] Retired (35 years old)
10) Henrique - Still good but more of a complimentary forward
11) Jagr - 45 years old...
12) Josefson - 4th liner at best
13) Matteau - [emoji23]
14) Ruutu - [emoji23] Retired (34 years old)
15) Ryder - [emoji23] Retired (36 years old)
16) Sesito - [emoji23]
17) Sislo - [emoji23]
18) Tootoo - [emoji23]
19) Whitney - [emoji23]
20) Zajac - Probably our best player this season
21) Zubrus - Retired (38 years old)

That was our roster less than TWO years ago. Jesus himself couldn't have turned that into a competitive team by now.'


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Great find MD2020.  I don't really have any issues with anything Shero's done so far...I think Hall might be overrated, and that trade clearly wasn't the fleece-job that many made it out to be initially, but the Devils needed a skilled forward in the worst way, and those guys are very hard to get...especially for a team like the Devils, which had very little to give back.  Shero did a good job "just" to give up only Larsson, and no other assets. 

And though it's already been brought up, I get why he's gone the Penguin Dollar Store route to this point, but enough with that.  Just doesn't seem to be working out much.   

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On 3/7/2017 at 3:16 PM, MadDog2020 said:


Me too brother. Still hurts.


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Or the sound of the puck shot in overtime by Kopitar hitting the back of the bottom rail of the goal after getting by Marty to win game 1. I never saw it because the guy in front of me jumped up...but Iheard it. 

Just the same...better memories about a competitive team than now...

peace

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12 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

I saw this post on HF, and I decided to copy and paste it here because it really illustrates very well what kind of mess Shero was left to clean up. If this doesn't put it into perspective, nothing will: 'This is our roster from the 2014-2015 season (every player that played at least one game for us the season before last); I've bolded the players we still have:

Goalies:

1) Schneider - Still our #1
2) Kinkaid - Still our #2
3) Clemmensen - Retired to become our goalie development coach (39 years old)

Defencemen:

1) Fraser - emoji23.png
2) Gelinas - emoji23.png
3) Hrabarenka - Now plays in the KHL
4) Harrold - emoji23.png Retired (33 years old)
5) Helgeson - emoji23.png
6) Salvador - Retired (41 years old)
7) Zidlicky - Retired (40 years old)
8) Greene - Still decent
9) Larsson - Easily our best defender; traded to the Oilers for Hall
10) Merrill - Finally showing signs of improvement
11) Severson - Our best remaining defender

Forwards:

1) Bernier - (31 years old)
2) Boucher - Waived
3) Brunner - emoji23.png Retired (31 years old)
4) Cammalleri - Looks washed up (34 years old)
5) Clowe - LTIRetired (34 years old)
6) Elias - Essentially Retired (40 years old)
7) Gionta - emoji23.png( 33 years old)
8) Gomez - Retired (37 years old)
9) Havlat - emoji23.png Retired (35 years old)
10) Henrique - Still good but more of a complimentary forward
11) Jagr - 45 years old...
12) Josefson - 4th liner at best
13) Matteau - emoji23.png
14) Ruutu - emoji23.png Retired (34 years old)
15) Ryder - emoji23.png Retired (36 years old)
16) Sesito - emoji23.png
17) Sislo - emoji23.png
18) Tootoo - emoji23.png
19) Whitney - emoji23.png
20) Zajac - Probably our best player this season
21) Zubrus - Retired (38 years old)

That was our roster less than TWO years ago. Jesus himself couldn't have turned that into a competitive team by now.'


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Wasn't our top line towards the end of the season something like Bernier-Gomez-Henrique?  Pretty bleak.

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On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 9:04 PM, MadDog2020 said:

I saw this post on HF, and I decided to copy and paste it here because it really illustrates very well what kind of mess Shero was left to clean up. If this doesn't put it into perspective, nothing will: 'This is our roster from the 2014-2015 season (every player that played at least one game for us the season before last); I've bolded the players we still have:

Goalies:

1) Schneider - Still our #1
2) Kinkaid - Still our #2
3) Clemmensen - Retired to become our goalie development coach (39 years old)

Defencemen:

1) Fraser - emoji23.png
2) Gelinas - emoji23.png
3) Hrabarenka - Now plays in the KHL
4) Harrold - emoji23.png Retired (33 years old)
5) Helgeson - emoji23.png
6) Salvador - Retired (41 years old)
7) Zidlicky - Retired (40 years old)
8) Greene - Still decent
9) Larsson - Easily our best defender; traded to the Oilers for Hall
10) Merrill - Finally showing signs of improvement
11) Severson - Our best remaining defender

Forwards:

1) Bernier - (31 years old)
2) Boucher - Waived
3) Brunner - emoji23.png Retired (31 years old)
4) Cammalleri - Looks washed up (34 years old)
5) Clowe - LTIRetired (34 years old)
6) Elias - Essentially Retired (40 years old)
7) Gionta - emoji23.png( 33 years old)
8) Gomez - Retired (37 years old)
9) Havlat - emoji23.png Retired (35 years old)
10) Henrique - Still good but more of a complimentary forward
11) Jagr - 45 years old...
12) Josefson - 4th liner at best
13) Matteau - emoji23.png
14) Ruutu - emoji23.png Retired (34 years old)
15) Ryder - emoji23.png Retired (36 years old)
16) Sesito - emoji23.png
17) Sislo - emoji23.png
18) Tootoo - emoji23.png
19) Whitney - emoji23.png
20) Zajac - Probably our best player this season
21) Zubrus - Retired (38 years old)

That was our roster less than TWO years ago. Jesus himself couldn't have turned that into a competitive team by now.'


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Edited by slasher72
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Sure hasn't been a fleece job in Year 1.  I'll give you that Hall hasn't always been lucky this season (the metrics crowd always falls back on the luck factor), but face it Tri, that deal didn't turn out to be the instant slam dunk no-brainer you and others thought it would be.  The Devils miss Larsson, and Hall may not be the true impact player we all hoped for.  But like I've said, I still would've taken the risk, and you can't judge a deal on one season...it's not fair.  Still at least three seasons to go.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Sure hasn't been a fleece job in Year 1.  I'll give you that Hall hasn't always been lucky this season (the metrics crowd always falls back on the luck factor), but face it Tri, that deal didn't turn out to be the instant slam dunk no-brainer you and others thought it would be.  The Devils miss Larsson, and Hall may not be the true impact player we all hoped for.  But like I've said, I still would've taken the risk, and you can't judge a deal on one season...it's not fair.  Still at least three seasons to go.

Too many quiet patches this season. Coming out of the gate he was buzzing but after the early injury haven't seen a dominant stretch. 

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Sure hasn't been a fleece job in Year 1.  I'll give you that Hall hasn't always been lucky this season (the metrics crowd always falls back on the luck factor), but face it Tri, that deal didn't turn out to be the instant slam dunk no-brainer you and others thought it would be.  The Devils miss Larsson, and Hall may not be the true impact player we all hoped for.  But like I've said, I still would've taken the risk, and you can't judge a deal on one season...it's not fair.  Still at least three seasons to go.

Larsson is an average defenseman and Hall is a top-line forward.  It's a slam dunk no-brainer deal.

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30 minutes ago, Triumph said:

Larsson is an average defenseman and Hall is a top-line forward.  It's a slam dunk no-brainer deal.

Based on you declaring as such?  Larsson is helping the Oilers, even if he's not a big glamour numbers offensive numbers guy...they needed a good, young defenseman, and Larsson has been good for them...they paid for it, but it's not like they're missing Hall much, if at all.  Like we've noted, Hall hasn't had great puck luck this season, but his shooting%s haven't really been anything special the past two seasons prior to this one.  Hall was brought in to help the Devils evolve and make a difference, and this top-line forward (yes, he should be that) isn't really doing that.  Obviously it's not all on him, as guys like Cory Schneider being up and down and trainwrecks like Killjoy have nothing to do with him, and we've seen some moments from Hall (enough where I'm far from giving up on him), but for you to declare in classic "because I'm Tri" fashion that the Devils already won this deal in a landslide is just wrong.  And that's been my point since the deal was made...not that it was ever a mistake to make it, not that Shero shouldn't have done it, just that this deal could turn out to be a lot better for Edmonton than many thought. 

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